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easyJet/CTC Cadet Pilot Slavery Contract

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easyJet/CTC Cadet Pilot Slavery Contract

Old 22nd Jan 2010, 22:25
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I don't believe it is simple, & I admit to having very little insight into what "exactly" they could react against.
I could imagine it would have to be an objection to having the crew establishment, and of course the body of pilots available to participate in union votes, diluted by an excess of non easy employed contractors, or some similar objection.
It is a situation that was avoided in Ryanair courtesy of the non union recognised status of the company, and it is a big pill for BALPA and the Easy employees to swallow, but swallow they must, or they will choke on something much bigger in the future.
I agree, the Cadets can do nothing, I don't say they are angels, but they know if they refuse, the next guy in line will say Yes.
Merde alors ! !
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Old 22nd Jan 2010, 22:35
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Does anyone know who owns ARL?
Have a guess.
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Old 22nd Jan 2010, 22:52
  #243 (permalink)  
 
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I have seen the 'offer' from CTC and it is a disgrace. At this stage I will not be publishing the details in view of the clear sensitivities of everyone involved. There are, however, two particular aspects to the offer that alarm me. The first is the threatening tone of the letter which demands a conspiracy of silence. CTC are understandably concerned about bad publicity and a crass attempt at getting everyone to sign quietly and shut up is mercifully backfiring. The second aspect is that the deal on offer is a 3-year one with no guarantees whatsover at the end. That was something never envisaged by anyone when contract pilots were thought of and should be resisted by everyone concerned. There are a few platitudes about being 'well-placed' to pick up any permanent jobs on offer, but that is not worth the paper it is written on in terms of a contract. This is a rock-bottom offer from a rock-bottom organisation, who without awkwardness or embarrassment are royally stuffing their own people.

ARL are a newly-formed company run 100% by CTC to manage this situation and are there merely to emulate Brookfield at Ryanair. To me this is the end of the road and needs to be opposed at every point. My position is very clear. The only pilots flying easyJet aircraft should be easyJet employees. That leaves space for every single guy currently employed under the CTC flexicrew arrangement to have a job with us. We can then go on to discuss contracts, flexible working etc in a reasonable and constructive manner. This 3-year contract is simply a way of circumventing the involvement of BALPA and is clearly grounds for major industrial strife. I trust that any easyJet pilot on a permanent contract can sense the clear and imminent danger to us all. This is absolutely not a time for burying our heads in the sand but for offering our total and unequivical support to BALPA as we seek to bring all these jobs back in-house. I can see grounds for all sorts of different contracts as long as there is a clear way up the ladder for everyone, regardles of the deal they are on. This has become my number one issue with terms and conditions at easyJet and it should be the source of massive concern for every single one of us. This is simply a management flanking action that we must oppose. In the meantime I am delighted to see some steady heads among the CTC guys who are acting as one against CTC and easyJet. Whether it be ATP, OAA, CTC, Parc or whatever else there is out there, the whole lot must be forced under the direct employment of easyJet. Orange airplanes flown by easyJet pilots under the watchful eye of BALPA has to be our aim. We are far from achieving, that but the battle must now begin to achieve this entirely reasonable aim. Anything less will breed longterm catastrophe.
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Old 22nd Jan 2010, 23:16
  #244 (permalink)  
 
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NSF...an excellent rallying call...BUT please tell me why we are not hearing such words from BALPA?! I am fed up of speaking to colleagues who don't read this site being completely ignorant as to what is going on! It is frankly embarrassing to read the most active threads on the company forum. How much more in subs do I have to pay to be shown some LEADERSHIP?!
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Old 22nd Jan 2010, 23:26
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Norm,
I am neither with Easy, nor even with your evil Irish shadow these days, happy in some ways , but not in others.
Therefore, I say this, with in actual fact, no personal interest whatsoever, save that I hate to see us, the pilots, being anally penetrated , and without a trace of lubricant, by so many sh1te schemes dreamed up to satisfy the self serving peurile parasites that somehow mange to classify themselves as "management".
Stop this sh1te, stop it now, Norm, as you assuredly can "Talk the talk" make the step, now is the time to . . . . . .

NOW ! ! Really NOW ! not tomorrow, or next week, or February, NOW BALPA, and BALPA means you guys, the full time Easy employees ! ! Yes Guy You Really must WALK THE WALK, or, as I said YOU ARE F UNIFORM CKED.
And as I said before, it doesn't make a blind difference to me, except I have seen it before on the "other" team & I would love to see you guys save yourself.
Please WAKE UP ! !
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Old 22nd Jan 2010, 23:33
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Stop dreaming guys, this is it. The profession is finished.


By the way, who is going to be the manager to replace Andy?
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Old 22nd Jan 2010, 23:51
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It sounds melodramatic, or trite, but it isn't.

If a company, the size of Easy , can grow balls and stop this total and utter ******* ( PLEASE MODS LET IT BE) of this profession, there may be some hope for the rest of us.
I have totally lost hope that Ryanair can ever emerge from the swamp, but you guys in Easy have BALPA recognition, and an Easy Capt as BALPA chairman, PLEASE, really PLEASE, sort this, if not , well, Sod it resign from the union, everyone for himself, advice avail from any RYR pilot you bump into. But, really, better not, if you can somehow avert that cataclysmic self serving mentality these guys are stuck with. Jeezuz, this really is last chance saloon. . . are you really so f-ckin dumb to believe otherwise ? ?

Standing here, on the outside, it looks horribly like now or never, anyone care to contradict me ? ?
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 00:58
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Captplaystation,

I'm not with easyjet, or the Irish outfit. And while I agree wholeheartedly with the "message" of this thread, nothing will change.

My experience of pilots (and I've been one for a while now) has shown me that whilst in the main, we're a decent set of chaps, we just do not have the stomach for a fight.

Let's face it, the CTC cadets are not being "forced" to sign any deal whatsoever. Any wannabee, be it easyjet, ryanair, flybe or whoever is in general, a young guy/girl, usually of above average intelligence working hard through university/flight school to pursue their dream of becoming a commercial pilot. And therein lies the problem. They're following a "Dream". And we all know how hard we had to work to get that first job.

So the flight schools/airlines have tapped into this psyche. And put their own slant on it. It's simply called Capitalism. Supply/demand/market forces whatever. Provide a product, be it apples/oranges/pears or an A319 type rating and put a price on it. Lots of people prepared to pay quoted price equals "brilliant, lets put the price up". No one prepared to pay equals, ", fun while it lasted, lets think of another way to make money".

I sincerely hope that I'm proven wrong. But I believe that in five to ten years time, EZY, RYR et al will have dragged this industry to a low never before witnessed.

But for as long as there is a "demand" there will be a supplier. Unless of course, safety is proven to have been compromised and the authority's end up doing what the pilots should have done years ago. But we lacked the stomach for a fight, or indeed the foresight to see where these pay to fly schemes would lead us.

This situation that the current professional pilot finds himself/herself in is entirely of their own making. The new guys for signing up to these deals and the old hands for not grounding the birds the moment this nonsense started about 15 years ago.

How are we going to fight back now? To me it seems a wee bit like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. But I would love to be proven wrong. I would love to see a well organised campaign of action that would bring about a permanent change of direction.

Over to ALPA/BALPA/IALPA/European Cockpit Association etc
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 05:30
  #249 (permalink)  
 
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Let's face it, the CTC cadets are not being "forced" to sign any deal whatsoever
Yes they are. If they don't sign, their parents loose their house.They don't have the choice anymore. They don't know yet that CTC will f...k them in the next turn!
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 06:53
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I totally agree that no one is forcing cadets to sign this deal, however I have to say it is IMO unrealsitic to expect a group of cadets with limited experience of the industry and general life experience to change what Easy, CTC, Oxford, The Aviation Industry as a whole.......are doing. It surely must come down to the experienced pilots who are already employed and have the ability to voice their opinions and concerns to BALPA, CAA, Media etc...

In life it is always easier to blame someone else rather than accept responsibility ourselves. We all know when trying to find employment after training that we would have flown "a cargo plane full of rubber dogsh*t out of hongkong"!! If it meant we could fly!!

Expecting cadets pursuing "the dream" (we all know it isn't) not to sign or accept and wait for something better to come along is no different from cadets expecting experienced pilots to stand up and say NO and not fly another hour until the contract is stopped.

What would have more impact, a cadet saying NO only for the next guy to say YES or: for every pilot in Easy or any other airline to stand together and say I am not flying a single minute unless this sh*t stops, NOW. After a few days of shiny A319's not moving and a loss of millions of pounds what do you think Easy would do ermmmmmm........! A damn site more than if a few cadets say no I'm not signing that.

I have no vested interest in Easy or CTC, I would like to return to the industry at some point if it is viable, I was made redundant from a lo/co last year and currently work out of aviation. It is very interesting looking from the outside in, the aviation industry is sinking to new depths and will continue to do so unless PILOTS stop it, it will just carry on.

It is no different from being at school, what do Bullies respond to, people who do nothing and put up with it (that would be pilots as a whole!) OR people who stand up and fight and say NO!!

Pilots need to stop having this huge fear of losing their jobs all the time if they stand up and say no to management and lower conditions, as pilots you really do have the power.

What would happen if Easy go to the wall after a few days of strike action....in protest to this? Ryanair will just pick up all their business and you can all go and work for them instead as the way it is going it would probably be a better deal!!

It really is now or never...!
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 07:53
  #251 (permalink)  
 
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Its true we are not forced to sign, however we are presented with Hobson's Choice. Don't take the flying job, sit behind our desks, or stand behind counters in shops, and go bankrupt, or take the flying job, build hours and experience, and go bankrupt.

I am sure all of us are keenly aware that the Dream isn't out there, but this is still the only job for us.

Wind Check, Helmet, while I understand your pessimism and this is certainly a time for it, it is also the time for some resolve. The cadets have had enough, it seems Norman and Alexander and others have had enough. If you want to make a difference, this really is the time to try.

Balpa are doing what they can, but as members of Balpa, if you want to see them do more, call them, email them. Make them.
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 08:22
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Its BA or Nothing

I must say that my experience of BALPA is bad one. I dont believe that they have any interest in aviation at heart or else they would never have let things get this far.

They dont have the stomach or backbone unless its BA. If they did then why is it NSF who is making the rally call ? Why havent BALPA used the wider media to high light the appalling situation ?

If im wrong then Lets hear it from BALPA, lets hear them shouting from the roof tops. But we dont, nothing but silence, which speaks volumes.

Good look to all and best wishes cancel your subscriptions to BALPA and see how fast they move then.
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 08:31
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as we are contract pilots, balpa cannot officially help. However I would urge you to contact balpa, show your support and get everyone to do the same.
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 08:41
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I've been reading threads calling for action for years as each new twist, each new low, each new scheme is announced and new depths are plumbed.

There are only two realities: nobody will do anything, and this will be choked down; they'll be a 'new' nadir in 3-6 months time.
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 10:54
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I believe this is different as those directly affected are taking a stand, and now we need those indirectly affected to show their support.
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 11:35
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Fear and Loathing... I hope you are indeed right and that I'm proved wrong, however history has set a different precedent and I don't believe any meaningful resistance will be put up as this rot becomes the standard.

I really hope that your prediction becomes reality. There are lots of rallying calls here, yet we've also seen that before. The pilot body is wasting time and energy debating who should be the one to make a stand and whilst we vacillate and acrimoniously dispute responsibilities, we're missing the big picture.

We're all going to be very disappointed soon by our inaction and we will have no-one left to blame. Not management; not training captains; not rich spoilt kids; entrepreneurial individuals who've self funded, or any other variant of the argument; not management; not even Michael O'Leary. We'll have to answer to ourselves. "Did I do enough to stop this?"

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor..."

Last edited by Journey Man; 23rd Jan 2010 at 11:48.
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 11:57
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Wannabee 2010,

Quote "Yes they are, if they don't sign, their parents will loose their house".

I hate to point something out here, but the parents are going to lose out anyway. As this practise continues, T's & C's go ever lower. To the point where a professional pilot will never be able to earn the money required to pay back the debt they incurred.

It also begs the question, "Why on earth would parents put up that sort of money, against their homes, without researching the facts?".

The bean counters at these companies are really having a joyous riot!! We (collectively) really are feeding them all the ammunition they want to ruin this industry.

Dan 98,

"In life it is always easier to blame someone else rather than accept responsibility ourselves".

I wholeheartedly agree with you Sir! If every pilot withdrew their labour for a week, this nonsense would cease overnight. It's the pilots who created this monster through their inaction over the past few years. And only the pilots can kill it. But that's going to take action.

Unfortunately, pilots are all talk and no trousers.
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 12:23
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Just to clarify. Everyone offered this deal have unsecured loans. Bankruptcy yes, but our parents houses are safe.
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 13:07
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journey man if it is inaction that you are worried about then I invite you, please, to step up and act. Even if all you do, or feel you are able to do, is call balpa and pledge support for our cause.

That goes for anyone reading this. CTC are meeting with Balpa on wednesday and I am hoping for balpa to be able to show CTC and easyJet the level of support behind them.
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Old 23rd Jan 2010, 14:41
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Unimuts - From a total outsider's perspective it appears to me that the reason BALPA only seem to be effective or involved in BA is that it is only there that they can deliver on the threat of strike. A badly supported strike or one involving other than the majority of one particular group is a busted flush.

In this case the union has no direct role to play as far as I can see, they do not represent the CTC guys and those they do represent are not yet adversely effected. Although anyone with a brain cell can see that this will lead to degradation of T&Cs it is impossible to prove therefore there are no grounds to ballot on strike. I wish it were otherwise.
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