easyJet/CTC Cadet Pilot Slavery Contract
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Lessons to be learned
Its a vicious cycle but what can you do when despite poor T & Cs and no guarantees people still line up outside flightschools thinking they will be different.
I remember during my modular ATPL groundschool the crap people used to talk about what jobs they could get after receiving their expensive shiny blue license with 200hrs TT. I went to the states & saved a few euros and got an FAA instructor rating which got me hundreds of hours ME time. Then I did the JAA conversions in america & spain for peanuts compared to the UK.
The only guys I knew who got jobs paid for a type with the lowcost carriers or got screwed on a bond. I can't believe anyone could be so stupid as to pay for a type with a random TRTO with no line training included but I heard a few guys I knew who did it.
I understand why people sign rediculous contracts like the new CTC/Easyjet scam its because they have no choice after all the money they have already invested.
I myself paid a similar lowcost airline for a 737 type rating over 2 years ago and it worked out. I am coming up to command now but I fear I too will be replaced in the not too distant future by desperate wannabes. I like flying but I would rather put my efforts to better use if I can't even make 6 figures (euros) as a skipper.
Don't give up if you want to be a pilot just beaware of the risks and don't let some stupid salesperson convince you otherwise. Remember its just a job at the end of the day.
I must admit flying is the worst part of my job because its not real flying. Its button pushing, checklists, paperwork, neverending memos, delays, the fear of ending up in the chief pilot's office and lots & lots of commuting. I fly twice a year & thats in a sim. However when I see my paycheck at the end of the month & when I consider the time off I have its worth it but I'm not sure it will last.
I remember during my modular ATPL groundschool the crap people used to talk about what jobs they could get after receiving their expensive shiny blue license with 200hrs TT. I went to the states & saved a few euros and got an FAA instructor rating which got me hundreds of hours ME time. Then I did the JAA conversions in america & spain for peanuts compared to the UK.
The only guys I knew who got jobs paid for a type with the lowcost carriers or got screwed on a bond. I can't believe anyone could be so stupid as to pay for a type with a random TRTO with no line training included but I heard a few guys I knew who did it.
I understand why people sign rediculous contracts like the new CTC/Easyjet scam its because they have no choice after all the money they have already invested.
I myself paid a similar lowcost airline for a 737 type rating over 2 years ago and it worked out. I am coming up to command now but I fear I too will be replaced in the not too distant future by desperate wannabes. I like flying but I would rather put my efforts to better use if I can't even make 6 figures (euros) as a skipper.
Don't give up if you want to be a pilot just beaware of the risks and don't let some stupid salesperson convince you otherwise. Remember its just a job at the end of the day.
I must admit flying is the worst part of my job because its not real flying. Its button pushing, checklists, paperwork, neverending memos, delays, the fear of ending up in the chief pilot's office and lots & lots of commuting. I fly twice a year & thats in a sim. However when I see my paycheck at the end of the month & when I consider the time off I have its worth it but I'm not sure it will last.
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I can't believe anyone could be so stupid as to pay for a type with a random TRTO with no line training included but I heard a few guys I knew who did it.
same thing with the MCC.
it was paid by the airlines.
what do we see since these last 20 years? I let you answer.
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I happened to swing by the Oxford Aviation forums just to see what spin they were putting on current events (as if there was ever any doubt). The forums there seem to be full of enthusiastic 17 / 18 year old kids who are all but clueless about the current state of things in our industry. They chat away with vigor and excitement about their forthcoming skills assessment as if, once passed, the blues, reds and whites on that 747-400 are but a foregone conclusion.
Of course, none of this is surprising. Think back to when you were 18. At that kind of age anything is possible. The world is yours to mold as you see fit. These 'adults' (who only qualify as such by legal status) have no financial acumen, no business sense and no idea what awaits them when they finish in the Utopian world that Oxford has created for them. In the background, the OAA brand manager makes soothing noises. He is careful not to sound reckless but, nonetheless, his tone strikes an unmistakable note of encouragement - "things will be ok chaps" - is the underlying message. I particularly enjoyed the side swipe at PPruNe when he attempts to blame this thread on someone who has an, "axe to grind with OAA".
During all of this, I couldn't help but imagine a parody of the latest Thomas Cook advert - I'm sure you all know the one, where Mr & Mrs Smith sit front and center while hordes of employees busy themselves painting stars in the night sky and so forth. Close your eyes and you can almost imagine it - the room full of expectant young faces while oxford staff hurry around hanging shiny jets from the ceiling with "welcome to my world" playing gently in the background.
These people are surely the very root of problem. The sales and marketing teams at the big flight schools. No shame, no remorse, just reeling them in on false promises, on 'ifs' and 'buts'. They've been selling it so successfully that one begins to wonder if they have started to believe their own spin. Anyway. I was on the cusp of joining the forums and posting, shall we say, a "different" opinion. Unfortunately before I had the chance to do so I felt overwhelmed by nausea and had to go and be sick.
I suppose my point is that however much the schools blame the airlines, and my god we've heard it enough recently, from the head of CTC in particular -"we can't set hiring policy, we are at the mercy of the airlines', there can be no excuse for luring unsuspecting young 18 year old's on to flight training courses given what the flight schools undoubtedly know - that there has, in fact, never been a worse time to consider being a pilot.
I have every sympathy with those currently looking for work - many of whom couldn't have reasonably been expected to predict the crisis in aviation. However, those currently in the process of signing up to integrated courses (and believe it they really are) whilst undoubtedly bearing some of the responsibility themselves, are having their naivety truly exploited by the unscrupulous management at places like Oxford and CTC.
"Built with you in mind". How very apt.
V2.
Of course, none of this is surprising. Think back to when you were 18. At that kind of age anything is possible. The world is yours to mold as you see fit. These 'adults' (who only qualify as such by legal status) have no financial acumen, no business sense and no idea what awaits them when they finish in the Utopian world that Oxford has created for them. In the background, the OAA brand manager makes soothing noises. He is careful not to sound reckless but, nonetheless, his tone strikes an unmistakable note of encouragement - "things will be ok chaps" - is the underlying message. I particularly enjoyed the side swipe at PPruNe when he attempts to blame this thread on someone who has an, "axe to grind with OAA".
During all of this, I couldn't help but imagine a parody of the latest Thomas Cook advert - I'm sure you all know the one, where Mr & Mrs Smith sit front and center while hordes of employees busy themselves painting stars in the night sky and so forth. Close your eyes and you can almost imagine it - the room full of expectant young faces while oxford staff hurry around hanging shiny jets from the ceiling with "welcome to my world" playing gently in the background.
These people are surely the very root of problem. The sales and marketing teams at the big flight schools. No shame, no remorse, just reeling them in on false promises, on 'ifs' and 'buts'. They've been selling it so successfully that one begins to wonder if they have started to believe their own spin. Anyway. I was on the cusp of joining the forums and posting, shall we say, a "different" opinion. Unfortunately before I had the chance to do so I felt overwhelmed by nausea and had to go and be sick.
I suppose my point is that however much the schools blame the airlines, and my god we've heard it enough recently, from the head of CTC in particular -"we can't set hiring policy, we are at the mercy of the airlines', there can be no excuse for luring unsuspecting young 18 year old's on to flight training courses given what the flight schools undoubtedly know - that there has, in fact, never been a worse time to consider being a pilot.
I have every sympathy with those currently looking for work - many of whom couldn't have reasonably been expected to predict the crisis in aviation. However, those currently in the process of signing up to integrated courses (and believe it they really are) whilst undoubtedly bearing some of the responsibility themselves, are having their naivety truly exploited by the unscrupulous management at places like Oxford and CTC.
"Built with you in mind". How very apt.
V2.
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A full page advertisement in BLAPA's Oct/Nov 2009 rag (Page 4 - inside front cover is BALPA financial solutions).
for OAA....
The very issue where the cover feature with "A Change for the Worse - We reveal how cadet recruitment could change the face of aviation"
Lead line... Worrying trends in training and working conditions mean that what was once a great job for life is in real danger of becoming a seasonal job for students.
and a very quote from that cover feature..
and..
this is the beauty..
Lot of morality there on who you take the advertising dime of while decrying their competitors for the same actions as the advertiser.
for OAA....
APPFirstOfficer
birds of a feather flock together...
We are a global leader in professional pilot training and we want to support our airline industry colleagues to make a career change and become an Airline Pilot.
Secure a place on our full time integrated APP First Officer programme in 2009 and you will receive a 3,000 Industry Discount from your course price when presenting your current Airline ID.*
Contact us on +44 (0) xxxxxxxxxxx or visit us online to find out more.
* terms and conditions apply
birds of a feather flock together...
We are a global leader in professional pilot training and we want to support our airline industry colleagues to make a career change and become an Airline Pilot.
Secure a place on our full time integrated APP First Officer programme in 2009 and you will receive a 3,000 Industry Discount from your course price when presenting your current Airline ID.*
Contact us on +44 (0) xxxxxxxxxxx or visit us online to find out more.
* terms and conditions apply
The very issue where the cover feature with "A Change for the Worse - We reveal how cadet recruitment could change the face of aviation"
Lead line... Worrying trends in training and working conditions mean that what was once a great job for life is in real danger of becoming a seasonal job for students.
and a very quote from that cover feature..
"The problems started when CTC became a supplier offering cheap labour. Airlines are now of the opinion 'why pay when we can get cheap cadets?.'
Monarch Captain
Monarch Captain
this is the beauty..
"Businesses today have lost any sense of morality, it's all about returns - you're not even a staff number, your a cost number.. it's just pure bean counting."
Lynne Clark, BLAPA Vice Chair
Lynne Clark, BLAPA Vice Chair
Lot of morality there on who you take the advertising dime of while decrying their competitors for the same actions as the advertiser.
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If indeed they have carried the ad as you say one could say that.
I hasten to add that PPRuNe was never slow to take the Air 0'Leary shilling either (where has that pesky yellow & blue banner ad gone? ) but then they are "independant" Ha !
Either a major lack of communication between those in charge of advertising and those who decide the politics, or just a major piece of two-facedness. Certainly as a minimum inept, right on up to mercenary.
I hasten to add that PPRuNe was never slow to take the Air 0'Leary shilling either (where has that pesky yellow & blue banner ad gone? ) but then they are "independant" Ha !
Either a major lack of communication between those in charge of advertising and those who decide the politics, or just a major piece of two-facedness. Certainly as a minimum inept, right on up to mercenary.
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"Please comment / rate the following video. The more ratings the more chances it will appear on the homepage to be seen by the world!
YouTube - Pilot abuse by easyJet.wmv "
I found this video a while back from the US regards pilots and pay.
YouTube - So You Want to be a Regional Airline Pilot?
YouTube - Pilot abuse by easyJet.wmv "
I found this video a while back from the US regards pilots and pay.
YouTube - So You Want to be a Regional Airline Pilot?
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If indeed they have carried the ad as you say one could say that.
I hasten to add that PPRuNe was never slow to take the Air 0'Leary shilling either (where has that pesky yellow & blue banner ad gone? ) but then they are "independant" Ha !
If indeed they have carried the ad as you say one could say that.
I hasten to add that PPRuNe was never slow to take the Air 0'Leary shilling either (where has that pesky yellow & blue banner ad gone? ) but then they are "independant" Ha !
Either a major lack of communication between those in charge of advertising and those who decide the politics, or just a major piece of two-facedness. Certainly as a minimum inept, right on up to mercenary.
I hasten to add that PPRuNe was never slow to take the Air 0'Leary shilling either (where has that pesky yellow & blue banner ad gone? ) but then they are "independant" Ha !
If indeed they have carried the ad as you say one could say that.
I hasten to add that PPRuNe was never slow to take the Air 0'Leary shilling either (where has that pesky yellow & blue banner ad gone? ) but then they are "independant" Ha !
Either a major lack of communication between those in charge of advertising and those who decide the politics, or just a major piece of two-facedness. Certainly as a minimum inept, right on up to mercenary.
oh indeed it's there. As anyone who recieved a copy of "The Log" can evidence for themselves.
Pprune and BALPA are not the same animal.
One is an open public forum structured towards a platform where Professional Pilots and to an extent the public can discussion aviation and aviation related matters.
The other is a pilot union that recieves its income from its members to represent the union base and to protect the terms and conditions of its membership.
Inept as minimum, right on up to mercenary... include cynical as the middle ground.
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Well..my next door neighbours Son has been accepted on this scheme. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of this will be with his parents stumping up the *dollars*. He is now packing his bags..I was hoping to do a lot more ILS/VOR approach practice simulations with him over the winter months..I guess I'll have to do them for myself again! You can't question his tenacity as he went to the USA to get his first step on the professional ladder...at considerable expense also. Please also consider that when a student comes out of university they have substantial debt, so maybe in the eyes of the aviation students..it is a debt worth having. We in this day and age, ( we, the society), encourage students to inccur debts for education. Us Oldies would turn in our graves at this thought..but times have changed.
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Tell him he is a stupid 
ing from me will you Old Bloke? (You can decide what the censored bits are as long as they are four lettered and rude.
And I think you'll find he is doing it through Oxford and not CTC - the give away is the:
ing from me will you Old Bloke? (You can decide what the censored bits are as long as they are four lettered and rude.And I think you'll find he is doing it through Oxford and not CTC - the give away is the:
his parents stumping up the *dollars*.
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Agree Beak - these guys must be told in the bluntest possible terms the role they have in degrading ALL OUR Ts and Cs by continuing to prostitute themselves in this manner..............SELF RESPECT for Gawds sake
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What other choice do they have? If they didn't accept this offer someone else would, and they would still be jobless . The ONLY reason they would not accept this offer is to avoid backlash from YOU. To them, they're screwed if they do, and screwed if they don't. Give them a break.
If you want to remove prostitution maybe you should shoot the pimps.
If you want to remove prostitution maybe you should shoot the pimps.
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fastjetpilot by name only clearly. Go put your Raybans on, button on a couple of gold bars onto each shoulder (next to your massive chip) and spend mummy and daddies money. The sentiment of your post is meaningless, hollow, weak and lightweight drivel.
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what choice do they have???????????????????????? Are you serious??????? They've a 44 to the head yeah?????????????? Give us all a break - I'll say it again but anyone who signs up for these deals is DIRECTLY contributing to the degradation of all OUR Ts and Cs. If you and they are incapable of seeing that well, quite frankly, you don't deserve to be a private, let alone, commercial pilot. 
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Royal Air Maroc (RAM) is now doing the same. Fly free for the first 500h, then go out!
RAM: "but Sir, you ave now 500h, you can work for Easyjet"
Crying pilot: "well, EasyJet told me the same thing, I can work for you!!!"
RAM: "Get out of my office, you get what you paid for!"
RAM: "but Sir, you ave now 500h, you can work for Easyjet"
Crying pilot: "well, EasyJet told me the same thing, I can work for you!!!"
RAM: "Get out of my office, you get what you paid for!"
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Beak,
You are a hypocritical halfwit. You critisize me on this post for sticking up for CTC cadets, saying they have no choice in what they do, yet in the OAA thread you say;
"And let's not confuse the CTC deal with this disgrace of an Oxford deal - I am talking about the situation that Oxford trainees are choosing to be in."
Implying that OAA cadets have a choice, yet CTC don't. So which is it? Do CTC cadets have a choice or not? Then you go on to talk about spending mummy and daddies money. WTF? Wrong thread again mate. Get your facts right. CTC cadets had unsecured loans and did not need m&d's money. You are either confusing yourself, or just don't have a clue what you're talking about. FischerFlyer - you are also in the wrong forum.
As for your insults towards my name, you know NOTHING, let me say that again, NOTHING about me. I am not, have never been a CTC cadet, have never owned a pair of Ray Bans (I wish I could afford to look like a ponce) and have more than "a couple" of gold bars on my shoulders. Maybe instead, you should look towards your own name, and start polishing the beak of your fancy dress pilots hat.
Back to my post, you say it's meaningless drivel. Go on then, there are hundreds of cadets intrigued by your amazing foresight. What other choice do they have? ****Tumbleweed**** hmm thought so...
Maybe instead of spending all day on prune venting your anger at people who you feel are stealing your job perhaps you should be doing something worthwhile to update your CV with. Maybe easyJet would perhaps even take a small glance at you then. I just hope I never ever have to fly with someone with your attitude. It stinks.
You are a hypocritical halfwit. You critisize me on this post for sticking up for CTC cadets, saying they have no choice in what they do, yet in the OAA thread you say;
"And let's not confuse the CTC deal with this disgrace of an Oxford deal - I am talking about the situation that Oxford trainees are choosing to be in."
Implying that OAA cadets have a choice, yet CTC don't. So which is it? Do CTC cadets have a choice or not? Then you go on to talk about spending mummy and daddies money. WTF? Wrong thread again mate. Get your facts right. CTC cadets had unsecured loans and did not need m&d's money. You are either confusing yourself, or just don't have a clue what you're talking about. FischerFlyer - you are also in the wrong forum.
As for your insults towards my name, you know NOTHING, let me say that again, NOTHING about me. I am not, have never been a CTC cadet, have never owned a pair of Ray Bans (I wish I could afford to look like a ponce) and have more than "a couple" of gold bars on my shoulders. Maybe instead, you should look towards your own name, and start polishing the beak of your fancy dress pilots hat.
Back to my post, you say it's meaningless drivel. Go on then, there are hundreds of cadets intrigued by your amazing foresight. What other choice do they have? ****Tumbleweed**** hmm thought so...
Maybe instead of spending all day on prune venting your anger at people who you feel are stealing your job perhaps you should be doing something worthwhile to update your CV with. Maybe easyJet would perhaps even take a small glance at you then. I just hope I never ever have to fly with someone with your attitude. It stinks.
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Hi TheBeak,
Just wondering what your background is? Have you been a CTC cadet, or are you in any way associated with the scheme?
It might help us to understand where you are coming from...
Cheers
AD
Just wondering what your background is? Have you been a CTC cadet, or are you in any way associated with the scheme?
It might help us to understand where you are coming from...
Cheers
AD
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Supply and demand. Pilots are being made redundant, airlines are going bust. So what sort of people are putting themselves through courses when the industry is in this state ????? (Common sense required), No wonder the airlines are taking advantage of these cadets!!!! Prospective pilots, for pity's sake wait until the market improves a little then start your training, maybe then no-one will have to accept these ludricous T & C's. Someone needs to be advising thes people before they stump up the cash !!!!! BALPA ?
Regards P.
Regards P.