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Sky Europe no salaries ? true or false ?

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Old 24th Dec 2008, 12:15
  #21 (permalink)  
Nightfire
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"Mr. Nasty" part 3

Yeah, it's disgusting. How low can you sink. Apart from the fact, that advertisements like "Byebye SkyEurope" / "Auf Wiedersehen Lufthansa" / "Air Revoir Air France" etc. should be banned, those affected companies should sue MOL.

Despite all the hate for his business, I don't wish anything bad to Ryanair either, thinking of all those jobs for fellow pilots. But I do hope MOL will one day pay the price for all this.

Happy New Year to you, SkyEurope!
 
Old 24th Dec 2008, 13:17
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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On the other hand that FR aircraft gave SkyEurope more (free) publicity than any of their advertisements.
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Old 24th Dec 2008, 15:15
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captplaystation
the demise of Sky may indeed have a small beneficial effect on any other carrier
if this is true, then it must be true:
"The demise of Ryanair will have a far greater beneficial effect on any other carrier"

and then one is tempted to a toast:
"Skyeurope will outlive Ryanair"
which is all the more probable, day by day.
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Old 24th Dec 2008, 15:44
  #24 (permalink)  
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If your going to take this thread down the RYR bashing road.................. What about Brandson/Virgin with his "No way BA/AA" a few years ago!
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Old 24th Dec 2008, 19:18
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I work for SkyEurope. I am not ashamed to say that I and almost all the employees have helped the company in various ways over the past couple of months. Why not - what's the alternative? Possibly lose jobs immediately or help and give hope. Of course none of this is ideal but I really don't see it as anybody else's business. If planes are flying from A-B etc, then what the staff are doing really shouldn't concern anyone else. Starting a thread titled like this seems ridiculous and unnecessary. It may or may not be "bashing" but isn't helping anyone. A concern for "more pilots on the market" is a weak excuse and unbelievable frankly.

IF there was some (and there isn't) suggestion of irregularities in safety etc it may be a worthy point. How the staff are conducting their careers really is not.

I strongly believe there is a future for SkyEurope, one that may not fit into, say Ryanair's plans, but one worth fighting for none the less.

Just for accuracy's sake, most information on here (with regard to SkyEurope) and ppjn is not correct.
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Old 24th Dec 2008, 21:03
  #26 (permalink)  
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While I dont work for skyeurope nor do I have an interest in it, I have followed this thread with great interest.

The Ryanair slogan is somewhat tasteless to say the least but fits well to the MOL modus operandi, that is simply ruining the rest of the industry thats left unruined. A vulture howering around a carcass comes into my mind or a hyena nibbling the legs of it's target.

However like someone pointed out, skyeurope did get some free advertisement out of it, wasn't that the word of the day from MOL: "All publicity is good" ?

The BA/AA campaing had nothing tasteless nor was ist questionable. It simply pointed out the standing of Virging in that matter.

Goaroundnow makes a few good points. What the employees decide to agree withing a company their business and their decision. But remember that this is a global business and actions of one group can set a precedent that is hard to break. So it is hardly wrong that people are qurious about what is happening with skyeurope as the next company can be quick to follow in offering half salaries etc in order to cook the books or wanting the balance to look a bit better.

This is a rumour and news network. If the information here is inaccurate it would be very helpful to correct the faulty info rather than simply state that as a fact.
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Old 24th Dec 2008, 21:37
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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goaroundnow
...a thread titled like this seems ridiculous and unnecessary...
yes ridiculous, but unnecessary is it? Maybe it is helping somepeople
RoyHudd
it could be conceived as public bashing of an operating company from a planted adversary.

people are qurious
With curiosity here goes opinion, persistent opinion is not curiosity anymore.
captplaystation
-working for free for 3 months is a little like believing in the guy with the red coat.
-Good luck I just hope all your unpaid efforts are not rewarded with unemployment.
i.e. ..naive in their loyalty? Is this curiosity?

JJflyer. The title is purposeful, carefully selected, carefully targeted, carefully "documented", not spontaneous. Too many agree. You must not believe in the guy with the red coat.

Last edited by PeterPaul; 24th Dec 2008 at 21:52.
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Old 24th Dec 2008, 21:47
  #28 (permalink)  
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As I stated before, I have no personal interest nor any axe to grind as regards your situation. I was just surprised to read the info on ppjn, and I thought it was best for the pilot community in general to know what you had been asked ,or indeed had imposed ,on you. The info given on post6 as regards salaries would worry me if I was in your position, you obviously have more faith in the financial establishments than I have.
It is good to know on the positive side that people will pull together BUT also on the negative that the company will not think twice to use its employees remuneration to keep the ship afloat. As jjflyer said, other companies with problems will be watching with interest. At least now, other guys have a bit of a heads-up before their company comes to them cap in hand
With 180 (more or less) aircraft I don't think anyone in Ryanair is losing sleep whether SkyEurope survive the winter or not BTW. I would say "Arrivederci Alitalia" was a lot more interesting to them.
I hope, once again , your loyalty and cooperation are repaid with future employment security, not with the loss of 2 months of your time having unwittingly worked for nada.
Good luck from your fellow pilots, with whom you share the sky and the enthusiasm for what we do ,whoever we work for.
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Old 24th Dec 2008, 22:00
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captplaystation

You repeat your opinion over and over.

Your message is clearly understood, I assure you.
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Old 25th Dec 2008, 06:02
  #30 (permalink)  
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I am a former SkyEurope employee, and although I decided to leave and go elsewhere, in order to pursue my own career-plans, I greatly enjoyed the thing, that SkyEurope is different to anything else.
We often had to do things out of the line, in order to help the company. Quite often (in fact usually), without getting any extra pay for it. It was just like in an aeroclub, where everybody had to participate "hands on", in order to make it work.

How many other airlines like that do you know? I doubt whether pilots in any other European loco company would ever work on their OFF-days, use their private cars for commuting between bases, do voluntary office-work, or stuff like that.
On the other hand, how many parties has your CEO ever organized for you? How many times did your entire crew ever go out together after a flight? Did your flight-ops manager ever put his hand on your shoulder and told you "thankyou, good job!"?

The thing is the entire SkyEurope working-atmosphere. People enjoy being there, even if they also sometimes complain (who doesn't). And right now, the company benefits from the fact that they always treated everybody with respect.

Which is exactly what so many other airlines fail to understand: Only happy employees are good employees.

Last edited by Nightfire; 25th Dec 2008 at 08:49.
 
Old 25th Dec 2008, 07:26
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Nightfire

Well said Sir
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Old 25th Dec 2008, 08:26
  #32 (permalink)  
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Yes Nightfire. That's all fine and dandy. Everyone should do their fair share of the work and make the company work. When working for a start-up that's the name of the game. SkyEurope is hardly a start-up carrier anymore.

CEO giving a bash to people. Yes well many companies and CEO's have functions like that off duty. 2 companies that I have worked for had several in fact and I know of 10 off hand that do the same. Nice touch from them but hardly relevant to the work one is supposed to do.

There is a BIG but here. Using your own car, working in the office without compensation. I am sorry for sounding cynical or greedy, BUT (and that's the big one) I expect to be paid for my time and compensated for my contribution for the company. If one is not very careful, sooner or later companies will expect crews to participate in tasks other than their job function and it becomes an SOP.

This working for free is in the long run extremely unhealthy for the whole work enviroment and also from a management point of view, it disorts the cost structure of the company and makes budgeting flawed as now a lot of functions are based on "Volunteer" work and cannot be put a value on.

OM-A clearly depicts the responsibilities of crew members and other personnel, contracts set out the payment for different functions and jobs performed such as office work. If the work has not been asked to be performed by the company and it is not part of my job description or I don't get paid to go to the office on my days off flying. Well then I am very sorry. I rather spend it home with my family, friends or out sightseeing. Nor will I take a taxi or use my own car if I know that the company will not reimburse me.
This is not to say that I won't help if it is really needed every now and then but won't do it as a rule.

Treatment of people is another matter altogether. Treat the people like you want to be treated. Every company has the a.hole in the office. It is a must. I guess it is a CAA mandatory requirement. Again it is nice to work in a company where you are treated nicely and in the long run company will work better, employees will stay and do their work better. Alas save money and make a better result.

Commercial flying with some companies might seem just like an Aeroclub BUT (a big one again) it certainly is NOT an aeroclub. Nor should an airline be treated as such.

Last edited by JJflyer; 25th Dec 2008 at 09:02.
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Old 25th Dec 2008, 09:29
  #33 (permalink)  
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SkyEurope is hardly a start-up carrier anymore.
True. I disagreed many times with the steps that the management has taken in the past. Especially since it is no longer a new company with a certain "startup-credit", their actions were sometimes hard to understand. And often enough they proved to be very wrong. We all know that.

CEO giving a bash to people. Yes well many companies and CEO's have functions like that off duty. 2 companies that I have worked for had several in fact and I know of 10 off hand that do the same. Nice touch from them but hardly relevant to the work one is supposed to do.
Really? Are you sure? I believe that it is a big motivation for everyone.

There is a BIG but here. Using your own car, working in the office without compensation. I am sorry for sounding cynical or greedy, BUT (and that's the big one) I expect to be paid for my time and compensated for my contribution for the company.
Yes, of course. Nobody works for nothing. But as I have already said earlier, it is the positive attitude of employees which keeps that airline going. The other option would be to demand what is rightfully yours, and then find yourself looking for a new place to go to within a few months. We all agree that SkyEurope was expected to go down years ago, and still it has always survived.
A strike of pilots, the Alitalia-way, would mean the certain end now, which is in nobody's interest.

OM-A clearly depicts the responsibilities of crew members and other personnel, contracts set out the payment for different functions and jobs performed such as office work. If the work has not been asked to be performed by the company and it is not part of my job description or I don't get paid to go to the office on my days off flying. Well then I am very sorry. I rather spend it home with my family, friends or out sightseeing.
Yes, but forgive my sarcastic remark: You may suddenly have more time to stay at home with your family than you'd like, in times like these.
Many people that I knew during my time with SKY were of the same opinion, and they all left within weeks or months. Often without even keeping the notification-period for resigning - which, in turn, led to their flights suddenly being distributed among other people's rosters and in the cancelling of their OFF-days.

I remember one time, where volunteers spent the whole night at the airport, after the delivery of four seccond-hand 737-300 aircraft; we had to change labels and stickers all around the planes' cabins, remove old logos, placard new ones, clear out old rubbish, and things like that.
What we got for it, as a reward, was a free breakie from McDonalds, sponsored privately by one of our managers.

Sure, that's not what anyone of us were hired to do, but it was actually good fun - nobody had been forced to participate, the email only said "anybody who would like to help...". What's the problem with that? I actually even found it interesting, to see what kind of papers are required when leasing a plane, and what kind of items were delivered with it. The cargo-compartments were full of surprises.

Commercial flying with some companies might seem just like an Aeroclub BUT (a big one again) it certainly is NOT an aeroclub. Nor should an airline be treated as such.
I agree, and mind you, we were often told just that: "we are NOT a f*ing Aeroclub!" - this sentence usually came when some individuals became too cheeky or bigmouthed.
Most of all, of course, the passengers must not get that impression, but also the rest of staff shouldn't think of it that way.

Nevertheless, my colleagues and I simply enjoyed being there. We learned a damn lot during that time, from which I benefit now in my present job. And it somehow felt just like being in an Aeroclub anyway, despite all we say.

As I already wrote, I left the company when the time had come for me to go. It was the necessary and right thing to do, I left on friendly terms, I still have friends back there, and I often miss those easy times.

I am proud and happy that not even MOL's "evil eye" can bring SkyEurope down.

Last edited by Nightfire; 25th Dec 2008 at 09:53.
 
Old 25th Dec 2008, 10:43
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You missed the point JJflyer. You just missed the whole point. You cannot understand the power of what Nightfire is writing.

I can only say
-Is this true Nightfire ? The spirit of what you are writing?

I wrote that it is unbelievable the loyalty to SkyEurope. If you are honest Nightfire, then an explanation is unfolding. A great explanation. Just to the part of employees. Something that is the desire of every flight crew, JJflyer, not the contrary "in the long run extremely unhealthy". Do not try JJflyer, to echo captplaystation's opinion. Yours is a malevolent effort against an extroardinary business model. M.O'Leary model is not exceptional, it is worn out. The model Nightfire explained is exceptional, extraordinary. You cannot beat it. Do not even try. Just see again what I wrote in my post 18:15 above. Now you can understand why it is inevitable to come true.

Your trying to bring down SkyEurope, JJflyer, simply will not materialize. You will understand, in time, that the spirit Nightfire describes, is simply too strong. Sorry for you.

Last edited by PeterPaul; 25th Dec 2008 at 10:57.
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Old 25th Dec 2008, 11:22
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HAPPY CHRISTMAS

I am not willing to write exactly what is happening within the corridors of SkyEurope. It is confidential and I still believe not totally relevant.

When we were asked to help, it was just that .. a question. We could say no. Some did, most didn't. So other airlines may well be looking on with interest. What is to say, though, that their employees would on the whole agree? What we have and haven't done is certainly not going to dilute terms & conditions for others in the future, if that is a concern.

If any company (and any industry) as a whole is in trouble then cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't helping anyone. Say, for example, SkyEurope had gone bust 2 months ago. Then another seemingly "secure" airline later - those Sky pilots might be further up the queue for the few jobs out there. A slight twist I know: but maybe we have helped in a weird way!! Who would have thought XL or Sterling would go before SkyEurope? At least those pilots haven't got another 160 candidates to fight for work (at the moment!)

If the alternative is almost certain, imminent unemployment then I cannot believe anyone wouldn't be willing to help in the short-term. Especially with the prospect of walking into another job immediately almost non-existent.

As pilots we are in a unique position (well this is how I see it) in that even by working for "free" (which is not what SkyEurope pilots are doing) we are at least gaining something valuable - hours in the log-book. It's not ideal but it's not forever. I am not saying it's sustainable but it's better that being furloughed, i.e. no pay, no hours, nothing to get up for etc.

By the way, SkyEurope is a public company which means a lot of announcements etc are published. You can also track their share price. A small amount of research will show you that a new investor has come forward, has lent money and (according to various newspapers) has plans and ambitions for SkyEurope. They would know all the details of various internal agreements, obviously. They have still proceeded.
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Old 25th Dec 2008, 11:33
  #36 (permalink)  
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No matter how strong the spirit ,it is the accountants who decide the fate of any company, to suggest anything else is romantic nonsense. Take off the rose tinted spectacles and come into the real world. An " extraordinary business model" indeed when the employees finance the financial shortfalls.
I have seen this touchy-feely back slapping mentality before in a Belgian company which at the time was cursed with Amarican management ( unfortunately not of the quality of Southwest). All this "camaraderie" was just a smoke screen to get everyone "on-side" so that people would be more mallable. Don't believe for an instant that those in contol of the budget, share your sentamentalism for the company, they would cut you dead , without a cent if they had to,either to save the company or their own asses. . . do you really believe otherwise ? if so you have a lot of learning left to do in life & some of it ain't pretty.
The camaraderie does indeed ( at least for the contributors here , but perhaps not all the employees ? ) seems real enough, but I doubt if the characters in charge at the top are significantly different to anywhere else.
You can classify that as cynicism or realism as you wish.


If I keep repeating myself Peter Paul it is because you and several others seem to be completely unable to understand that I don't wish you anything but the best.
As always I also suggest you keep your eyes open and don't confuse helping someone with being manipulated. Things you agree to do "exceptionally" have an unfortunate habit of becoming "accepted practice" and you will then be accused (like the RYR pilots frequently are) of helping to set the bar lower for what are generally accepted norms.
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Old 25th Dec 2008, 11:35
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The spirit you are talking about is the same spirit you could find in Fischer Air or Tatra Air (where many of you guys come from) and we've all seen how the story ends.
There are many examples across the industry of loyal employees who work on days off or who do extra duties for nothing but unfortunately, as the companies grew in size, this "family model" stopped working as the big effort of the employees was directly proportional to the money the companies were loosing.

Having said that i wish all of you guys all the best even if, seen from the outside, it doesn't look very promising.
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Old 25th Dec 2008, 12:25
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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So, at last, the true nature of posting this title of the thread, has finally came out. as suspected earlier by many. As the same is happening in so many other forums, against SkyEurope.

Why do you all SkyEurope bashers, not take it for sure that your (specific one) employer will be bankrupt soon? Do you not read the late news?

Won't you be on the wrong side then? And no more salary for posting?
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Old 25th Dec 2008, 12:45
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I believe the crews are mature enough to understand the consequences of their job sudden loss .
However some believe in SKYeurope because it is a great outfit to work and the crews are fantastic to fly with.

Some have left because they didnt believe we may overcome these difficult times and i dont blame them and some left because that other airline offered him/her more.

But for the ones staying, we are fighting by giving all we have,concessions,working professionally and all with a great smile not because we are forced too but because we value our work!

I bet on SKyeurope.

I have very strong gut feeling we ll make it just fine

Time will tell..
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Old 25th Dec 2008, 12:58
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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One thing is for sure: salaries MUST be paid on time just as the crews show up for duty on time.

People have kids, school fees,mortgages,cars loans and other BASIC needs that need to be taken care of.
An airline should at least be able to provide this kind of BASIC financial security for its emloyees regardless of spirit, and if i'm not mistaken it'a also an EU financial regulatory requirement.
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