CSA Czech Airlines...still lowballing?
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CSA Czech Airlines...still lowballing?
Hey there, new poster to Pprune, thought I would ask a question a few of you may be able to help me with.
I am a Canadian Commercial Pilot with an EU passport about to write my ATPL's and have read a few posts about CSA airlines that date from 2004 on these forums.
I speak fairly fluent Czech and am looking at seeing something other than the Great White North.
I am hoping to get some more updated info on their payscale, starting positions, sched, quality of life ect....
I understand there have been some union renegotiations in recent memory, all I have heard so far is that starting FO wage is about 2,000 Euro's, but I have no idea of payscale and upgrade path.
Thanks in advance.
I am a Canadian Commercial Pilot with an EU passport about to write my ATPL's and have read a few posts about CSA airlines that date from 2004 on these forums.
I speak fairly fluent Czech and am looking at seeing something other than the Great White North.
I am hoping to get some more updated info on their payscale, starting positions, sched, quality of life ect....
I understand there have been some union renegotiations in recent memory, all I have heard so far is that starting FO wage is about 2,000 Euro's, but I have no idea of payscale and upgrade path.
Thanks in advance.
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PPJN is correct basically.
As a foreigner you will be employed by click4sky, not CSA directly, however this makes little difference today (though there are rumors of creating 2 airlines out of CSA, making the ATR fleet a regional airline under click4sky).
If you think that 2000 Euro is 6 times the standard salary of a worker, then you can imagine that your lifestyle is higher than in most western companies.
CSA and the local CAA will accept your TC licence and pay you and give you time off while converting to JAA (within a year). You will be flying on the right seat of their ATR fleet for a minimum of 2-3 years, then either go to the Airbus fleet or the left seat of the ATR. - This is minimums, can be as long as 7 years, depending on requirements and ability.
The Boeings are on their way out, brand new Airbusses on their way. You will never get onto the A310 fleet. On the ATR, you have very little night flying and a fair amount of overnights. The hotels are quite good and you go to the hotel even for 2-3 hours.
hope this helps, IP
As a foreigner you will be employed by click4sky, not CSA directly, however this makes little difference today (though there are rumors of creating 2 airlines out of CSA, making the ATR fleet a regional airline under click4sky).
If you think that 2000 Euro is 6 times the standard salary of a worker, then you can imagine that your lifestyle is higher than in most western companies.
CSA and the local CAA will accept your TC licence and pay you and give you time off while converting to JAA (within a year). You will be flying on the right seat of their ATR fleet for a minimum of 2-3 years, then either go to the Airbus fleet or the left seat of the ATR. - This is minimums, can be as long as 7 years, depending on requirements and ability.
The Boeings are on their way out, brand new Airbusses on their way. You will never get onto the A310 fleet. On the ATR, you have very little night flying and a fair amount of overnights. The hotels are quite good and you go to the hotel even for 2-3 hours.
hope this helps, IP
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If you think that 2000 Euro is 6 times the standard salary of a worker, then you can imagine that your lifestyle is higher than in most western companies.
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tf,
I have recently bought a house next to the airport. I also have one near Frankfurt. The one here is less than a quarter in price, even though more centrally located and more land.
Food and drink is not the only parametres, though you get lunch vouchers from CSA, allowing you to go to many different restaurants all over the city every day and eat for free... When you are sick of dining out, you can go shopping with them.
More parametres: cheap land and houses and rents, our cleaning lady gets 5 Euros an hour, fuel costs 1.1 Euro a litre, the car repair shop takes under 10 Euros an hour. Public transport is efficient and costs under a Euro, never mind how far you go.
It is true that even Czech made cars cost more here than abroad and that mobiles are expensive. There are still many things considered luxury items and thus are high in price. Hopefully, this will change. We are dreading the Euro which is on it's way...
With regards to holidays: I don't know if CSA has a similar scheme, but TVS will give you free flights and full board acommodation every year in Fuerteventura with the family.
From the 1st of January 08, we have a flat rate income tax of 18%, adding to the net income.
Can you imagine the savings if a pilot comes with an FAA licence and CSA faces the bill for conversion? How many airlines do that?? calculate the savings over a period of let's say 2 or 3 years, and suddenly you are not getting less than with the majors abroad.
They give you time off and pay your Czech course to improve your language skills (though a little more than basic Czech is a prerequisite).
I realize, things are far from ideal and people leave from time to time, but all in all, it is a package that is not too bad. They have been around for a long time and it is unlikely that any government would see them fold.
cheers, IP
I have recently bought a house next to the airport. I also have one near Frankfurt. The one here is less than a quarter in price, even though more centrally located and more land.
Food and drink is not the only parametres, though you get lunch vouchers from CSA, allowing you to go to many different restaurants all over the city every day and eat for free... When you are sick of dining out, you can go shopping with them.
More parametres: cheap land and houses and rents, our cleaning lady gets 5 Euros an hour, fuel costs 1.1 Euro a litre, the car repair shop takes under 10 Euros an hour. Public transport is efficient and costs under a Euro, never mind how far you go.
It is true that even Czech made cars cost more here than abroad and that mobiles are expensive. There are still many things considered luxury items and thus are high in price. Hopefully, this will change. We are dreading the Euro which is on it's way...
With regards to holidays: I don't know if CSA has a similar scheme, but TVS will give you free flights and full board acommodation every year in Fuerteventura with the family.
From the 1st of January 08, we have a flat rate income tax of 18%, adding to the net income.
Can you imagine the savings if a pilot comes with an FAA licence and CSA faces the bill for conversion? How many airlines do that?? calculate the savings over a period of let's say 2 or 3 years, and suddenly you are not getting less than with the majors abroad.
They give you time off and pay your Czech course to improve your language skills (though a little more than basic Czech is a prerequisite).
I realize, things are far from ideal and people leave from time to time, but all in all, it is a package that is not too bad. They have been around for a long time and it is unlikely that any government would see them fold.
cheers, IP
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Irish,
I too have invested in property overthere, not by the airport but downtown where prices are still cheap compared with the west but still i would have never been able to pull a deal on a CSA salary.
You mentioned things like gasoline at 1.1 euros/liter, well that's EU average unlike the wages though.
You can have a very decent life at CSA as long as you conform to czech standards where having a car is still considered a luxury, but suggesting that one can have a better lifestyle than in many western countries is an overstatement.
Having said that living there on a western contract is a different story....
I too have invested in property overthere, not by the airport but downtown where prices are still cheap compared with the west but still i would have never been able to pull a deal on a CSA salary.
You mentioned things like gasoline at 1.1 euros/liter, well that's EU average unlike the wages though.
You can have a very decent life at CSA as long as you conform to czech standards where having a car is still considered a luxury, but suggesting that one can have a better lifestyle than in many western countries is an overstatement.
Having said that living there on a western contract is a different story....
Only half a speed-brake
There is small number of foreign pilots who joined during (overhated) expansion in 2005, all of them type rated. Pilot-wise, the company has been downsizing for the last 12 months, although we will see approx 10-15 newcomers total by the end of 2007 to cover retirements and resignations. I do not see many reasons to employ pilots not speaking Czech, mainly because holding pool has about a year worth of candidates and the selection process (namely psychological evaluation) is in Czech. Standing pilot requirement no longer justifies running a parallel one I think.
OTOH, as you do speak Czech you can apply and join just like any other pilot, but the recruitment website seems to be down for a while http://czechairlines.reload.com.cz/w...cruitment/www/. Of course you will need the Czech CAA to accept and later convert your licence to a JAA one which is solely your responsibility.
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tf,
thanks for confirming all I wrote except for the fuel prices. True, they are only 20% lower than Germany.Unfortunately, prices for certain goods that are considered luxury here but are taken for granted elsewhere are way out of reach for ordinary Czechs. But not for Pilots.
Save 20 000 on the licence and another 20 000 on paying for a rating (which you need with some airlines) and you can buy an excellent car over here and will get a couple of mobiles thrown in with it. Thinking about it, that would already buy you a couple of 100 m2 of building land not too far from the airport...
fd:
the psycho tests are most definitely not only in Czech, they can be done in about a dozen languages, including German, Spanish and French. I KNOW this as I am involved in their selection process which has been outsourced and is now done online with a US company. We have had 10 foreigners this year, all personally linked to Czech, some with the bare minimums, some with FAA ATP. They were French, Spanish, US American, German and many Slovaks of course (whereas Slovak is almost the same as Czech).
The rest of the tests are done half in Czech and half in English. There have bee close to 50 people screened, however usually only 50% pass the psychological evaluation. Even less pass the rest, so you are probably right that the intake will not be more than 15.
It then depends on the individual experience wether they go into the pool or start immediately. Last DEC taken were in 2004 from Fischer due to strong union representation.
With regards to click4sky, I simply aired what I was told. - I am not employed by CSA. I was also told that though the management would favour some English natives to join them to raise the level of spoken English, ICAO has made it a requirement for anyone joining to speak Czech. Pilots inside CSA know why.
AP:
Apply, as you speak Czech on the link provided, you would get a 1 year contract, subject to permanency upon successfully completing the JAR conversion. You will then be bonded for the rating.
good luck! IP
thanks for confirming all I wrote except for the fuel prices. True, they are only 20% lower than Germany.Unfortunately, prices for certain goods that are considered luxury here but are taken for granted elsewhere are way out of reach for ordinary Czechs. But not for Pilots.
Save 20 000 on the licence and another 20 000 on paying for a rating (which you need with some airlines) and you can buy an excellent car over here and will get a couple of mobiles thrown in with it. Thinking about it, that would already buy you a couple of 100 m2 of building land not too far from the airport...
fd:
the psycho tests are most definitely not only in Czech, they can be done in about a dozen languages, including German, Spanish and French. I KNOW this as I am involved in their selection process which has been outsourced and is now done online with a US company. We have had 10 foreigners this year, all personally linked to Czech, some with the bare minimums, some with FAA ATP. They were French, Spanish, US American, German and many Slovaks of course (whereas Slovak is almost the same as Czech).
The rest of the tests are done half in Czech and half in English. There have bee close to 50 people screened, however usually only 50% pass the psychological evaluation. Even less pass the rest, so you are probably right that the intake will not be more than 15.
It then depends on the individual experience wether they go into the pool or start immediately. Last DEC taken were in 2004 from Fischer due to strong union representation.
With regards to click4sky, I simply aired what I was told. - I am not employed by CSA. I was also told that though the management would favour some English natives to join them to raise the level of spoken English, ICAO has made it a requirement for anyone joining to speak Czech. Pilots inside CSA know why.
AP:
Apply, as you speak Czech on the link provided, you would get a 1 year contract, subject to permanency upon successfully completing the JAR conversion. You will then be bonded for the rating.
good luck! IP
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Irish,
as far as i know the foreigners that have been taken on had to pay for their type ratings.
If gasoline is about 20% cheaper than in Germany while pilot wages are about 50% down that eats well into your lifestyle.
With 2500 euros/month you can't really have a western lifestyle in a city like Prague where rents for a decent flat in town are about 15k crowns (550 euros), car prices are at times more than in the west, goods cost just like elsewhere in the EU exept for czech food and beer (and you don't wanna live on czech food for long if you wanna pass your next medical),dining out in the city will easily cost you 50 euros, buying a decent flat means you will have to spend at least 5million crowns (185.000 euros), anytime you go abroad on holiday you will realize how bad your salary is and so on....
On the other hand one could join say Net Jets and live in the Czech Rep. on a western salary earning twice as much as CSA guys and not having to pay for the type either
as far as i know the foreigners that have been taken on had to pay for their type ratings.
If gasoline is about 20% cheaper than in Germany while pilot wages are about 50% down that eats well into your lifestyle.
With 2500 euros/month you can't really have a western lifestyle in a city like Prague where rents for a decent flat in town are about 15k crowns (550 euros), car prices are at times more than in the west, goods cost just like elsewhere in the EU exept for czech food and beer (and you don't wanna live on czech food for long if you wanna pass your next medical),dining out in the city will easily cost you 50 euros, buying a decent flat means you will have to spend at least 5million crowns (185.000 euros), anytime you go abroad on holiday you will realize how bad your salary is and so on....
On the other hand one could join say Net Jets and live in the Czech Rep. on a western salary earning twice as much as CSA guys and not having to pay for the type either
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I was only back in Praha for two weeks, and my hotel was complimentary so all my expenses were food and stupid souvenirs for everyone on the other side of the pond.
The BEST restuarant in Prague was not the most expensive; it was joined to most expensive one by a very modest door as to not attract the attention of spendy tourists.... ironically a local secret as it featured the same kitchen and menu for half the price!
This first class meal cost us 500 CZK which is roughly 15 Euros. On the other side of the wall you would have spent 30 Euros max unless you went crazy with bottles of wine ect....
TF is right about housing prices in Praha (Prague), although most english language real-estate flyers feature heavy over-pricing. Best to get a Czech friend to help you look through local listings.
Prague is a great city to live in, but leave your car parked at the west edge of the town where Dejvicka Metro-A ends! Very efficient, fast, cheap and clean public transit but very frustrating to try to drive around and park in with your own car...
This may sound like a very silly question to most of you living in the Old World, but how does income tax and gross/net pay work in Europe?
I believe I was under the mistaken impression that 2000 Euro was gross pay, not net pay. In Canada we have roughy 24% of our pay stripped right from our cheques and still pay anywhere between 5%-14% in taxes on purchased goods......
I would love clarification on this.
While I would love to fly the big jets, I have a strong interest to move back to Czech Republic to fly corporate or charter/business. Any and all info on alternative (and lucractive) flying jobs in Czech ( such as Net Jets) would be much appreciated.
Thanks again
Airline Pirate.
The BEST restuarant in Prague was not the most expensive; it was joined to most expensive one by a very modest door as to not attract the attention of spendy tourists.... ironically a local secret as it featured the same kitchen and menu for half the price!
This first class meal cost us 500 CZK which is roughly 15 Euros. On the other side of the wall you would have spent 30 Euros max unless you went crazy with bottles of wine ect....
TF is right about housing prices in Praha (Prague), although most english language real-estate flyers feature heavy over-pricing. Best to get a Czech friend to help you look through local listings.
Prague is a great city to live in, but leave your car parked at the west edge of the town where Dejvicka Metro-A ends! Very efficient, fast, cheap and clean public transit but very frustrating to try to drive around and park in with your own car...
This may sound like a very silly question to most of you living in the Old World, but how does income tax and gross/net pay work in Europe?
I believe I was under the mistaken impression that 2000 Euro was gross pay, not net pay. In Canada we have roughy 24% of our pay stripped right from our cheques and still pay anywhere between 5%-14% in taxes on purchased goods......
I would love clarification on this.
While I would love to fly the big jets, I have a strong interest to move back to Czech Republic to fly corporate or charter/business. Any and all info on alternative (and lucractive) flying jobs in Czech ( such as Net Jets) would be much appreciated.
Thanks again
Airline Pirate.
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Last time in Prague I went for sushi and a couple of Sapporo beers in one of the few good jap restaurants in town, some of you may argue that sushi is a western luxury but still i feel the need of telling you that i paid exactly as if i had been in Berlin or Paris.
Of course one can feed himself with potatoes and pork and save a little bit but we were talking about lifestyle here.
As far as rents are concerned it will not help you much if you speak czech or not, they are in the range of 500euros/month anyways (I'm talking about a decent flat in town).
Leaving your car at Dejvicka is not a desirable practice since car theft is one of the main recreational activities of the czech rep.
My suggestion would be Net Jets: good company, good T&C and the possibility to be based in Prague.
Of course one can feed himself with potatoes and pork and save a little bit but we were talking about lifestyle here.
As far as rents are concerned it will not help you much if you speak czech or not, they are in the range of 500euros/month anyways (I'm talking about a decent flat in town).
Leaving your car at Dejvicka is not a desirable practice since car theft is one of the main recreational activities of the czech rep.
My suggestion would be Net Jets: good company, good T&C and the possibility to be based in Prague.
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AP, if you are interested in living here and flying anything remotely big, then CSA has to be your choice.
however, if tf is right and Netjets pays you while flying on a non-JAA licence and pays for your conversion, then I would take his advice. I didn't know that. Netjets is a good employer here in Europe and you spend a lot time at home.
There are a few smaller jet operators here who do not sponsor a transition to JAA, but do take foreigners. Their pay is en par with CSA.
You are right that it is possible to spend more, However I spend nothing on restaurants (as my wifes employer gives us the vouchers) and even if I did, I would eat Czech, Pakistani, Indian, Chinese, Thai, etc for under 5 Euros with a nice glass of wine right in the centre. Once you live here, you will find those spots. It is true that it is not too healthy to live on Czech food alone.
I am afraid if you are looking for a lucrative job here, then you have to look elsewhere. tf is correct that it is best to work abroad and live here. Really depends on where you want to spend your time, how interested you are in job security, what you want to fly, etc.
Same tax situation as in your place: Income tax lower (18%), VAT (tax on goods) is slightly higher: 19%, except on basic food which is 5% and on services, also 5% (though this might change soon to all 19%).
Hope this helps. IP
however, if tf is right and Netjets pays you while flying on a non-JAA licence and pays for your conversion, then I would take his advice. I didn't know that. Netjets is a good employer here in Europe and you spend a lot time at home.
There are a few smaller jet operators here who do not sponsor a transition to JAA, but do take foreigners. Their pay is en par with CSA.
You are right that it is possible to spend more, However I spend nothing on restaurants (as my wifes employer gives us the vouchers) and even if I did, I would eat Czech, Pakistani, Indian, Chinese, Thai, etc for under 5 Euros with a nice glass of wine right in the centre. Once you live here, you will find those spots. It is true that it is not too healthy to live on Czech food alone.
I am afraid if you are looking for a lucrative job here, then you have to look elsewhere. tf is correct that it is best to work abroad and live here. Really depends on where you want to spend your time, how interested you are in job security, what you want to fly, etc.
Same tax situation as in your place: Income tax lower (18%), VAT (tax on goods) is slightly higher: 19%, except on basic food which is 5% and on services, also 5% (though this might change soon to all 19%).
Hope this helps. IP
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Hmm, I was looking for something else in the forum and unearthed this tidbit. IP that's quite a lot of writing you put in there but I'd hate to pee your cornflakes..most of it is BS. Tarjet and FD are bang on...now let's mention some of the inaccuracies..DEC from Fischer was a classic union screw over...but conforming to the rules. Sort of in czech where the wolf eats and the goat stays whole if you know what I mean. The procedure was to hire the guys immediately and give them unpaid leave which allowed them to be on the seniority list. Few months down the road, when no one was any wiser, there was a selection for Capt. Since the first qualified applicants were way down on the list, no one questioned the process. It was only after walking down the hallway and seeing four stripers that I;ve never seen before that we figured out we were had. Legal? Yes. Moral?...probably not. So, in fact we never had Direct entry Captains, we just had Captains that were on unpaid leave as FO's until such position became available.
Second, the psych test is being done by a female psychologist who I highly doubt would even consider doing it in other languages. The other tests are all in Czech...two weeks ago was the first time we ever gave a test in English and that was done for a native US pilot who took the time to learn Czech but couldn't read in Czech fast enough to complete it in time. Click 4 sky is a marketing tool, nothing to do with splitting CSA into subdivisions. All pilots on the seniority list would flowthrough anyhow in case it did subdivide so there is no incentive to do that now anyway.
What does ICAO have to do with forcing people to speak Czech on the flight deck???? We have several non-czech speakers already working here and they get on quite well thank you..as a matter of fact, I look forward to flying with them to break the monotony and our CAA has no problems with that as English is the language officially spoken on the flight deck.
The other stuff, well, we don't get any food vouchers, any car repair garage here charges more than a hooker for an hour...CSA will definitely NOT NOT NOT pay you while you do you conversions. You come here with a TR but a different licence then you get time to convert. You screw up, then you don't meet the qualifications for being a pilot at CSA and they will drop you like a hot potato... The CAA is good enough that they stay within the normal parameters, not like a long time ago where their decision was arbitrary with no recourse. The pay...well let's not talk about that...50% of EU average. Wish I had more time but gotta go, IP don't take it personally and I am glad that someone is trying to help out. Airline pirate think about if you really want to give up a known lifestyle for the wild wild east europe.
click (had the handle long before CSA thought of click4sky
)
Second, the psych test is being done by a female psychologist who I highly doubt would even consider doing it in other languages. The other tests are all in Czech...two weeks ago was the first time we ever gave a test in English and that was done for a native US pilot who took the time to learn Czech but couldn't read in Czech fast enough to complete it in time. Click 4 sky is a marketing tool, nothing to do with splitting CSA into subdivisions. All pilots on the seniority list would flowthrough anyhow in case it did subdivide so there is no incentive to do that now anyway.
What does ICAO have to do with forcing people to speak Czech on the flight deck???? We have several non-czech speakers already working here and they get on quite well thank you..as a matter of fact, I look forward to flying with them to break the monotony and our CAA has no problems with that as English is the language officially spoken on the flight deck.
The other stuff, well, we don't get any food vouchers, any car repair garage here charges more than a hooker for an hour...CSA will definitely NOT NOT NOT pay you while you do you conversions. You come here with a TR but a different licence then you get time to convert. You screw up, then you don't meet the qualifications for being a pilot at CSA and they will drop you like a hot potato... The CAA is good enough that they stay within the normal parameters, not like a long time ago where their decision was arbitrary with no recourse. The pay...well let's not talk about that...50% of EU average. Wish I had more time but gotta go, IP don't take it personally and I am glad that someone is trying to help out. Airline pirate think about if you really want to give up a known lifestyle for the wild wild east europe.
click (had the handle long before CSA thought of click4sky
)
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Good thing though, LE, it just cost you a fiver! ;-) No seriously, I believe you missed out on a lot.
click,
As I said above: "With regards to click4sky, I simply aired what I was told." - sorry if I was wrong.
With regards to ICAO and English, ask your CP, he personally explained it to me. - I do not believe an open forum is the place to write about this.
The psycho test is outsourced to IQI (www.iqi.cz), where they are conducted online through a US company and conducted at their office in Oldřichova 49, no longer with CSA. The psychologist supervising this is the most definitely not female Dr Jan Rydlo, who, for an extra charge (6200CZK cash, completely official,) will allow you to do it in a range of languages...
A friend of mine completed his ATR conversion around 6 months ago and told me that he was on a (reduced) salary from day one. I will chase him up on that.
As said before, this is not a place to make money. None of the companies here are. I myself work abroad and live here, allowing for a very decent lifestyle.
FD: True that it is 32% now, but only for another 3 weeks. Flat rate tax from 1st Jan 08 is no longer 18%. Seems to be 15% now... Please correct me if I'm wrong here, just had a minute to google the newest legislation on this. We'll see what happens. But, as mentioned before, VAT will go from 5% to 19% on many goods. See also here:
http://www.hoover.org/research/russi...s/9400171.html
must dash... IP
click,
As I said above: "With regards to click4sky, I simply aired what I was told." - sorry if I was wrong.
With regards to ICAO and English, ask your CP, he personally explained it to me. - I do not believe an open forum is the place to write about this.
The psycho test is outsourced to IQI (www.iqi.cz), where they are conducted online through a US company and conducted at their office in Oldřichova 49, no longer with CSA. The psychologist supervising this is the most definitely not female Dr Jan Rydlo, who, for an extra charge (6200CZK cash, completely official,) will allow you to do it in a range of languages...
A friend of mine completed his ATR conversion around 6 months ago and told me that he was on a (reduced) salary from day one. I will chase him up on that.
As said before, this is not a place to make money. None of the companies here are. I myself work abroad and live here, allowing for a very decent lifestyle.
FD: True that it is 32% now, but only for another 3 weeks. Flat rate tax from 1st Jan 08 is no longer 18%. Seems to be 15% now... Please correct me if I'm wrong here, just had a minute to google the newest legislation on this. We'll see what happens. But, as mentioned before, VAT will go from 5% to 19% on many goods. See also here:
http://www.hoover.org/research/russi...s/9400171.html
must dash... IP
Only half a speed-brake
click, LE: Thanks for the input, guys. I did not contribute further before because there is nothing I can add to an expat living discussion; also I could not tell IP off as it dawned on me that he may know more then I do. Serious, see below.
AirlinePirate: Sorry not to have responded to your PM, apologies. See here http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpos...2&postcount=84. It looks quite rose tinted because that's how I view it, a local kid who never dreamed about anything else and joined with 220 hrs onto 737. Rose tinted yes, optimistic no. What you need is a reality check from click, LE et al who know how to weigh things in. Check 1: USD (per diems are in USD) no longer 22 CZK but 17,5; check 2: new taxation laws from JAN 08, initially more take-home, cost impact to be seen - VAT on housing up from 5 to 9 per cent, etc.; check 3 new contract aimed at 3% below expected inflation
... gents, please do continue.
IP My psychometrics were done in-house by a Dr.Psycho-Guru-Legend (read a very old man), Czech language only. Some time this was changed to more "modern" way and was done on-line, from home, unsupervised with a different company. This was abolished some time later too and now is outsourced to firm IQI in Prague and done in Czech. Hence my comment that you are no longer correct with the on-line process. I have spoken to a friend of mine and need to take that back. You are right. IQI only harvest data that are fed to an US outfit and this certainly can be done in more languages. The supervisor is Dr.Moravcova, a name that perhaps is familiar to you.
Re: Reduced Pay: Until a newcomer finishes the initial training / type rating course, it is a pilot-in-training pay calculated as 50% of year one FO basic. This was the case for a very long time, today equals to 31433 CZK/month.
Again, as an outsider you do not have the ability to match things together, but your facts indeed are correct. Except for the car repairs of course, forked 800€ for a Skoda door paint job
What scares me is your note about employment by C4S (not possible). There is, however, CSA Services outfit to which some CSA personell have been transferred to. Aircraft and office cleaners, lorry drivers and so. For some time, newly employed check-in staff, cabin crew, ... are also only on contract with CSA Services. The ability to hire-and-fire seems to be the leading factor. But hey, these CC are no longer CSA mainline employees and cannot be represented by CC union! Ooops.
Cannot see that happen to pilots, the scope clause is firmly welded in. Ooops, until the contract runs out, that is in 25 days.
Until I read the new LOL insurance conditions that hit my company mailbox just yesterday.
Validity of the contract? 1 DEC 07 to 1 DEC 08 !!! 
FD (the un-real)
AirlinePirate: Sorry not to have responded to your PM, apologies. See here http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpos...2&postcount=84. It looks quite rose tinted because that's how I view it, a local kid who never dreamed about anything else and joined with 220 hrs onto 737. Rose tinted yes, optimistic no. What you need is a reality check from click, LE et al who know how to weigh things in. Check 1: USD (per diems are in USD) no longer 22 CZK but 17,5; check 2: new taxation laws from JAN 08, initially more take-home, cost impact to be seen - VAT on housing up from 5 to 9 per cent, etc.; check 3 new contract aimed at 3% below expected inflation
... gents, please do continue.IP My psychometrics were done in-house by a Dr.Psycho-Guru-Legend (read a very old man), Czech language only. Some time this was changed to more "modern" way and was done on-line, from home, unsupervised with a different company. This was abolished some time later too and now is outsourced to firm IQI in Prague and done in Czech. Hence my comment that you are no longer correct with the on-line process. I have spoken to a friend of mine and need to take that back. You are right. IQI only harvest data that are fed to an US outfit and this certainly can be done in more languages. The supervisor is Dr.Moravcova, a name that perhaps is familiar to you.
Re: Reduced Pay: Until a newcomer finishes the initial training / type rating course, it is a pilot-in-training pay calculated as 50% of year one FO basic. This was the case for a very long time, today equals to 31433 CZK/month.
Again, as an outsider you do not have the ability to match things together, but your facts indeed are correct. Except for the car repairs of course, forked 800€ for a Skoda door paint job
What scares me is your note about employment by C4S (not possible). There is, however, CSA Services outfit to which some CSA personell have been transferred to. Aircraft and office cleaners, lorry drivers and so. For some time, newly employed check-in staff, cabin crew, ... are also only on contract with CSA Services. The ability to hire-and-fire seems to be the leading factor. But hey, these CC are no longer CSA mainline employees and cannot be represented by CC union! Ooops.
Cannot see that happen to pilots, the scope clause is firmly welded in. Ooops, until the contract runs out, that is in 25 days.
Until I read the new LOL insurance conditions that hit my company mailbox just yesterday.
Insured personnel is pilots employed by CSA j.s.c and/or CSA Services Ltd. ....
The insurer and insurance company agreed that should CSA aircraft be operated by pilots employed by CSA Services Ltd, these may be included in the list of insured personnel ....
The insurer and insurance company agreed that should CSA aircraft be operated by pilots employed by CSA Services Ltd, these may be included in the list of insured personnel ....
FD (the un-real)
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As I said above: "With regards to click4sky, I simply aired what I was told." - sorry if I was wrong.
...Actually this is a forum for airing views and any tidbit of information for everyone to see, I disagreed with you on a number of things which I thought were based on erroneous information but I can see where you are coming from now...and from someone who is outside the organization, you have a very good general overview. Couple things, first:
As said before, this is not a place to make money. None of the companies here are. I myself work abroad and live here, allowing for a very decent lifestyle.
Second: Getting back to the Fischer DEC, the airline went through an extremely rapid expansion in hmmm about 2004 where we had a change at the helm. Ex-leader Kula, who rose to his highest level of incompetence and refused to change his apartchik style of leadership was ousted. The replacement was none other than megalomanic Tvrdik who was showcased as the messiah to lead CSA to glory and salvation. He began the long awaited and necessary fleet renewal and expansion. CSA doubled the fleet numbers over the span of about 18 months going from 25 to over 50 aircraft. This created a shortage of qualified personnel. So the company started trawling through the competition and used every means available to get people on board. We had an acute shortage of Captains at the time and it was not uncommon for upgrades from the ATR to be told that you can't get back to the jet because we have no-one to take your position while at the same time, people that had been with the company for a short time were slipped into the left seat of a 737. This created resentment because the difference in pay...at the time between a Captain on the ATR and the 737 was quite large. Roughly 10 k+. When Fischer folded, which a lot of people forecast and it was only a matter of time, the astute Captains already had their applications in. The union, CZALPA CSA represents the interest of pilots at CSA so it was only natural that it would vote against direct entry. There won't be any DEC is what we said over and over again. We will not take a DEC because such practices damage the seniority system and the seniority system is one of the basic tenets of union membership. It's not that we were against helping out CSA in their time of need but we refused to dance to their tune because it was largely self-inflicted. If CSA had a vision, a long term strategy..then that would be a different matter. DEC on a contract is something that can buffer the needs of the airline and stay within parameters of the seniority system. Nevertheless, since we expect to be screwed over in certain matters, that makes it much easier to anticipate where it will happen. Btw, those Fischer DEC did bring a lot of experience and fresh thinking into the company so overall I can't complain. I only see the positive side of this, the current FO who is still in the right seat will have a different view.
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After learning about the fine new collective agreement, I need to spend more money on drinks, and perhaps get some good sniffing stuff. God, how stupid people are there. Incredible.
Thread Starter
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looks like someone in the know (hopefully...) updated the PPJN numbers:
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/fact...j2x2r85zcav48y
Anyone care to comment on the NET figures, seems an increase from the base FO salary from 2000 Euro to 2500 EURO (net).
Also has anyone found an average for total hours for applicant they would consider once they need to start filling groundschools again? I realize there isn't much movement at this time, but PPJN doesnt really tell you much about what they're actually looking for...
Thanks once again to all for continuing to shed light on what its like to work there....
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/fact...j2x2r85zcav48y
Anyone care to comment on the NET figures, seems an increase from the base FO salary from 2000 Euro to 2500 EURO (net).
Also has anyone found an average for total hours for applicant they would consider once they need to start filling groundschools again? I realize there isn't much movement at this time, but PPJN doesnt really tell you much about what they're actually looking for...
Thanks once again to all for continuing to shed light on what its like to work there....