BusterHot

Ho Ho. Hopefully you'll get access to Flybe AIMS via your crew room/home asap. Rgds.

W_18

Hopefully not

W_18

After 25th i dont have a crew room/home

Shoo shoo

What a very sad story - esp re BRS-, W18, as an ex BRS Rasher we may know each other & I wish you & your colleagues all the best, but what hollow words they sound.

What people need is a job and it is interesting to note that the negotiating team who shook hands with JF & co on the day they all agreed terms, were told nothing of these plans.

The deal was signed with BA on the Monday & then out comes the news that BRS is for the chop. Maybe they didn't know they were intending to do that when they ensured the reps the future was good? Maybe pigs really can fly?

I refer back to my earlier post, and repeat that corporate managers never give you the straight unspun picture, at least not in my very long experience.

They also regularly make huge cock ups and still think they are very clever people. The only way to deal with them is to either always assume the worst (& you'll need a lively imagination as BRS shows) or unionise to the level that BA mainline has.

Anyone who thinks that their Ts&Cs would be what they are without over 90% member ship + a real willingness to strike, is sadly mistaken.

I am not a spokesman for BALPA but in that repsect you pays you money etc etc

SS sh B

remoak

Anyone who thinks that the BRS closure was not discussed and agreed by both parties, well before it was announced, has a very loose grip on reality.

Similarly, anyone who thinks that flybe wouldn't have retained the base, if there was any chance at all of making money on it, is equally deluded.

Having been affected by several base closures over the years, I sympathise, but they don't do it to piss you off. It's all about economics/loads/yields/forecasts/competition, which is exactly what it should be. Crews do not have a holy right to stay employed in their local base, the industry simply does not work like that, and if it did, flybe would be making the same losses that BACON did and would last about the same length of time.

Some of you need to take your rose-tinted BA shades off...

Skylion

BACON as it was has collapsed and been given away, complete with dowry. It is entirely reasonable for the new owner, FlyBE , to do what it takes to ensure that the combined companies are profitable,- and to do it quickly. There is no point in pissing millions down the drain while protracted negotiations and consultations bleed away cash available for future development or survival even. If FlyBE don't act decisively there is no future for anyone and all that FlyBE have built up,- including the opportunities for many in the UK airline industry,- would disappear. Jim French and his team are not just entitled but obliged to act in the best interests of the long term business. While this may be uncomfortable it is not an assault on the staff,- it is to give most of them a future. FlyBE has done well in reinventing itself and being innovative. It now deserves the wholehearted enthusiasm and support of those who are staying to make it work. Mergers are never easy. It has taken BOAC and BEA over 30 years so far and it isn't until they get into T 5 next year that ground handling at LHR is unified. A lot of flexibility is needed and digging into fortified positions to resist the necessary and inevitable changes would only bring the whole roof down on everybody.

Red Snake

Au contraire. Just change the tint to orange.

remoak

Yes, that would work too... although I suspect that the culture shift from BACON to Easyjet is even larger than BACON to flybe...

W_18

I dont have any BA tinted shades BA stuff up regional airlines, both historically ( Eagle, Cambrian, Brymon, BRAL BAConnect)and now every time they set their dainty feet outside LHR I am in no way a BA supporter..
And if this closure was planned well in advance why was their engineering manager showing our engineers the planned work at BRS up to2010,and why were BALPA shown the list of staff required at BRS for the next year (41pilots plus cabin crew and engineers,numbers of which I am ashamed to say that I can`t remember)only a week before the closure.
I have no problem with management deciding that a base isnt viable, I`ve been there before.
I have a distinct problem with low life trash that handle their employees this way. Oh, I`ve just realised, maybe thats why they don`t have enough pilots of their own.
And you sunshine wern`t there to see the girls crying maybe if you had been you might have a slightly more understanding attitude.

Red Snake

Well, let's see: reasonable pay, good colleagues, stable roster, home most nights, 12 hour days, knackered after 5 days on, good chance of staying on a jet aircraft, reasonable job security...hmmmm.....decent BRS base.....yes we're getting there now..... - you're right.. big culture shift.

bermudatriangle

This fiasco just goes from bad to worse....what fun the summer schedule will provide.Good luck to all of you trying to make this circus run like an on time regional airline....looks to me like the basic requirements to run a decent operation will not be in place.I will watch with amusement !

red17

Does anyone have any details on the BE/BA codeshare agreement?

208

one of the reasons for the BRS closure could well be the number of crews who have left(deserted) Flybe are just protecting all the other routes.
Just look at the number of cancalations accross the BACON network in Feb/Mar BRS unfortunatly was a nice small base easy to close and realocate the aircraft.

Red Snake

The reason so many deserted is exactly because of the complete lack of commitment to BRS that Flybe has shown right from the press release on day one of the acquisition announcement. I don't think any of us believed a BRS base would stay permanently in Flybe's plans given the history of Flybe with BRS, but the callous speed with which it was dropped even after assurances there would be 2 ERJ145s based here at least through summer 07 is why there is so much vitriol against them right now.

A great many of us were willing to give it a try. Yes, we were upset to loose the BA label even if we never did look through real BA tinted glasses, but the continued lack of communication and uncertainty over the post-acquisition issues has had even the most die hard believers tripping over each other to the exit door.

And, I said in another post somewhere, there's a strong whiff of BS surrounding the stated reasons for the BRS closing. We were often told that BRS was a good performing base. Our loads have been good on most routes where EZY didn't compete. The tickets aren't cheap so the yields can't be that bad. CDG has been a stalwart performer for years at BRS - you don't operate 4 flights per day for 10 years if the route isn't viable. Yet, all of a sudden 'there's no way we can see a financially viable model for maintaining a base at BRS'. Strong whiff, indeed.

Shoo shoo

"Some of you need to take your rose-tinted BA shades off..."

I know of nobody at BRS who wears them.

That sort of comment is an example of the lack of commone decency displayed by the management. Of course bases have to close and airlines need to make money that is not the point.

You can take tough decisions but it depends HOW you impliment them & just tossing peope asside without looking after them or handling them sensitively has no excuse.

W_18 has hit the spot too. It will not be the managers who take the heat but as always those at the coal face. These people have already had one re-organisation after another and their once profitable airline trashed. Surely the way to help Flybe as well as them is to be the kind of employer people want to stay with rather than escape from.

Frankly few managers have the imagination or leadership qualities to do it. They understand stick but not carrot.

It's a free country & pilots can walk if they want ( it's not desertion) - and usually do - because they are in deamand, Not everyone is so lucky.

Shoo shoo

Moderator - can you explain why my last post produced a response - "The Moderator must view this before posting" and has subsequntly not appeared? There was nothing offensive in it.

W_18

maybe you mentioned flybe, that would be offensive to some

Resurgam

The cast:
MONSIEUR F.B.
John Cleese
HONEST PADDY OF WATERWORLD AIRLINE EMPORIUM
Michael Palin

The sketch:
A customer enters ‘Honest Paddy's' airline emporium.
Monsieur F.B: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.
(Honest Paddy does not respond, and looks shifty.)
Monsieur F.B: 'Ello, I wish to make a complaint!
Honest Paddy: We're closin' for lunch.
Monsieur F.B: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this airline what I purchased not half a week ago from this very boutique.
Honest Paddy: Oh yes, the, uh, the BA Connect...What's wrong with it?
Monsieur F.B: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. Its dead, that's what's wrong with it!
Honest Paddy: No, no, its uh,...its resting.
Monsieur F.B: Look, matey, I know a dead airline when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
Honest Paddy: No no its not dead, its restin'! Remarkable airline the BA Connect - Beautiful hexperienced flight crews!
Monsieur F.B: The flight crews don't enter into it, they’ve all turned orange and disappeared. It's stone dead.
Honest Paddy: Nononono, no, no! 'They’re resting!
Monsieur F.B: All right then, if they’re restin', I'll wake them up! (picks up phone, dials crew room) 'Ello, BA Connect flight crews! I've got some lovely new routes for you.
(Honest Paddy shouts “hello” out of corner of mouth pretending to be answering the phone)
Honest Paddy: There, they answered!
Monsieur F.B: No, they didn't, that was you pretending to answer!
Honest Paddy: I never!!
Monsieur F.B: Yes, you did!
Honest Paddy: I never, never did anything...
Monsieur F.B: (yelling and banging the phone hand piece repeatedly) 'ELLO BA CONNECT CREWS!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!......... Now that's what I call a dead airline.
Honest Paddy: No, no.....No, they’re stunned!
Monsieur F.B: STUNNED?!?
Honest Paddy: Yeah! You stunned them by taking away their scheduling agreement! BA Connect pilots stun easily, major.
Monsieur F.B: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That airline is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not 'alf a week ago, you assured me that it had lots of pilots.
Honest Paddy: Well, they’re...they’re ah...probably pining for their scheduling agreement.
Monsieur F.B: PININ' for the scheduling agreement?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that? Look, I took the liberty of examining this airline when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it was still keeping crews was that you’d promised them two full years to sort it out.
(pause)
Honest Paddy: Well, o'course I had to promise them two years! If I hadn't been economical with the truth they'd have all pushed off long ago - VOOM! Feeweeweewee!
Monsieur F.B: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this airline wouldn't have enough pilots to go "voom" even if you cancelled loads of flights, mothballed aircraft, and closed bases! Its bleedin' demised!
Honest Paddy: No no! They’re pining!
Monsieur F.B: They’re not pinin'! Its passed on! This airline is no more! Its expired and gone to meet 'is maker! Its a stiff! Bereft of life, It rests in peace! Its metabolic processes are now 'istory! Its off the twig! Its kicked the bucket, Its shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the AOG operation in the sky!! THIS IS AN EX-AIRLINE!! IT HAS CEASED TO FLY BE
(pause)
Honest Paddy: Well, I'd better replace it, then. (he takes a quick peek behind the counter) Sorry squire, I've had a look round and uh, we're right out of regional operators, an I got shot of B-Med a couple of weeks back.
Monsieur F.B: I see. I see, I get the picture.
Honest Paddy: I got a GB Airways.
(pause)
Monsieur F.B: Pray, does it operate regional aircraft?
Honest Paddy: Nnnnot really.
Monsieur F.B: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?
Honest Paddy: N-no, I guess not. (gets ashamed, looks at his feet)
Monsieur F.B: Well.
(pause)
Honest Paddy: (quietly) D'you.... d'you want to come back to my place? I think out the back I’ve got a Gatwick operation I was thinking of getting rid of.
Monsieur F.B: (looks around) Yeah, all right….. if you bung me another couple of million to take it off your hands.

marlowe

Resurgam you forget that Willie has the shiny new Cityflyer to offload in the future, he has given it the dreaded full backing of the board speech so as soon as he can get LCY under the mainline banner it will have passed its point of usefulness and he can take it out back and shoot it!!!

The Fleet Manager

It seems that I was wrong, things are not calming down at all, if anything, the feelings on here seem to have polarised even more. My sympathy to those who are made redundant. (When a Company ceases a route, it is not usually very long before a smaller operator sees an opportunity - I hope this may happen for BRS)
Do bear in mind that a Company of any description cannot tell all its employees all its plans all the time - having said that, I can quite appreciate (assuming the Prune version is the accurate one) where you are coming from, and it does seem like rather poor IR. Having sympathised personally, if your feelings continue to sublimate into action, it seems that Flybe may find it rather difficult to crew and operate as many of their flights as they would like.
The intemperate language on here rarely seems to translate accurately into numbers taking action - eg the BA strike thread - it will be interesting to see how the summer goes, particularly in two to three months time.
Good luck.