Red Snake

> We could not make a viable economic case for its retention

The problem with that statement is it's inconsistent with what we've always been told in the past i.e. BRS-CDG is one of the top performing routes with good loads & (presumably) good yields. No competition on MUC/FRA/ZUR, again good loads.

But, it's your sandpit. Not mine anymore. TTFN.

Shoo shoo

So who are you then? If you are the Flybe Flt Ops Director come out and say so clearly and give your name.

I have yet to meet a corporate manager who was straight & gave the un spun facts (except one & he quit) so what you are doing is reinforcing my prejudice - if prejudice it be - rather than impart useful information and the logical points made by No iffs & others have not been directly answered.

I am no longer BACON or BRS but was once and it was always the flagship base in Brymon & it IS true that Ej & other competition does not exist on the routes mentioned above.

If it is the usual parochial issues (like those when Brymon merged with Birmingahm European) that you want the crews and aircraft to feather your own cosy nest then just say so.

SS shu boogie.

The Fleet Manager

I sincerely wish all of you all the very best - it's instructive to note how the more emotive rhetoric is already calming down very rapidly.
We all enjoy the Industry and try to optimise our careers, but we all also quite rightly prioritise the wellbeing and future of our families - unsurprisingly, some of us therefore go a little over the top when these latter things are threatened by circumstances outwith our control. There is no reason I am aware of why Flybe should not become the market leader in the Regional sector with appropriate remuneration. If I were in your particular goldfish bowl, I believe I would rather be part of Flybe than what appears to be a high risk BA Cityflyer operation - at least in terms of the believeable BA commitment to the same.

However, philosophically speaking, things are rarely as good or as bad as they seem, and things generally seem to work out for most of us in the long run - if that turns out not to be the case, ....... we shall probably be recruiting again come the Autumn !

MVE

err???? He has given his name, or at least his initials. It wouldn't take much research to find they are correct? .........oh and they are!

RAFAT

MVE - I think it would be wise to reserve judgement on TFOD's true ID at this stage. I doubt the real JA has enough time to scratch his bum, let alone review and reply to issues on here.

Additionally, the age is wrong, I know JA's birthday.

Captain Correlli

Anybody still within the FlyBacon setup know what the deal is on the pension?
I'm very interested to know who has picked up legal responsibility for the fund, and more importantly, its now deferred members and their pensions.

G-FLYB

Plenty of news on the BALPA website!

ivor toolbox

Names and true identities apart, unfortunately for those of us at the 'coal face' it now just seems as if we were going to be exchanging one bunch of lying two faced management for another, when it all seemed so optimistic, and yes we've all heard 'the biggest regional airline in europe' jingo before.

When the deal was first mooted, coming hot on the heels of the Flybe 'spat' with Brs Airport which saw all the (very) prominent Flybe advertising removed from Brs, it was accepted by most that there would be no future for Brs.

However after a succession of staff forums, and liason visits by senior Flybe staff, the picture had changed, route plans were afoot up until 2010, we were shown the predicted route plans and received firm
confirmation that there was a place for Brs and its' routes, albeit with some changes, and this is the story that we got at every meeting with every Flybe representative.

Now in BACON we've had over 4 years of blatant lying from messrs Evans and Co, and frankly, we're all fed up with it, and were looking forward to a fresh management, but now Flybe look to be starting as they mean to go on, barely has the ink dried and the true colours have been nailed to the mast.

So, on behalf of everyone who's not getting offered the choice of tours or relocation ....

Up Yours Jim French


ttfn

Captain Correlli

I hear what you say regarding BALPA, fortunately in many respects, I gave myself a 1% pay rise some years ago. I don't ask for anything confidential, but any info at all would be helpful. I've tried the Head Trustee, a certain KM, but he's never available to take my calls, and as I understand it, isn't with FlyBacon any way. A pm would be helpful if you don't want to go public.

Cheers,

AC

Sheikh Zabik

In connection with the base closure at BRS, interesting to note that Jim French did not even play lip service to his statutory obligation to notify/consult with any union before announcing closure.

When you see this Mr French (apparently you do read Pprune!) you might be interested to know that even amongst those who were prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt you are loosing what little respect there was for you.

If you want to play the big business man, then act like one and not like a tin pot cowboy.

wacky

FlYbe's management, much as expected from when the proposal was first announced back in Nov, have now shown everyone exactly the sort of people they are. Are Flybe pilots aware that rashers will be paid a £3000 bonus at end of June providing we have not tendered our resignation by then? Hmmmm, that's nearly a £1M payout if we all stay that long. Especially surprising following the recent announcement by Flybe of a £12.2M pre-tax loss in its latest trading year. Did you manage to weasel that from Willie as an extra payment for the deal proceeding? Not that a measly £3K will change anyones decision to leave before the 3 months is up. What a strange tactic. But leave is what many if not majority will continue to do - for our lifestyle issues are now shafted. What does it take for Jim F to realise that lifestyle is THE important factor that keeps pilots in regional type flying? Most people will accept hard work providing they can plan their life and say NO when necessary. The excuse for a scheduling agreement that has been forced upon us leaves no-one in any doubt that you don't give a damn about lifestyle. Well sorry Jim, you're about to learn the hard way.

The Little Prince

Welcome to all you bits of bacon rasher and rind, streaked and smoky, raw and burnt, all now arriving legally into Flybe, sliced pork no longer, but joining a proud organisation with a history of loyalty and effort/reward second to none, a skilled and experienced management team complemented by the luminaries who have arrived from their successes with frying bacon - out of the frying pan into the, er, the, er.....bigger hotter frying pan!
More seriously, I hope you enjoy it, I hope you don't find the seniority adjustment unfair - I believe we in pre-baconrasher can live with it. Congrats on the three grand golden hello - I suppose it'd be daft to ask why us old hands aren't getting it for staying too - but hey, no grudges held here (YOUR ROUND!!!!!!! !)
For those of you leaving, good luck and enjoy the rest of your lives - it'd be nice if you could start a new thread entitled maybe "How BA and WW screwed us over" or something; I hope we won't be on the receiving end of your bile in the meantime, after all, it was WW who ditched your loss making enterprise, not Flybe!
Let's go forward together, hand in hand, workers and management, Wotsits and (bribed) Baconeers, Flybes and fellowship, all in one nice package....

Now, about the scheduling agreement........

BIGBAD

The £3000 payment is only for captains - first oficers are only getting £1500 .

Its not going to cost flybe that much as there are a significant amount of guys leaving. I know of at least a dozen colleagues at my base who have courses with easyjet in August and I don't think any of them will retract their notice for £1500 or £3000 or even try to delay courses as easy are fully booked up till autumn.

I will not be retracting my notice for £1500 (before tax) !!!

W_18

Hi TLP
2 days after showing us the plan for 2010 @ BRS your beloved management came back and with no notice shut the base.
My first indication of this was walking into the crew room past rows of weeping cabin crew who had just been given, with no notice, the news that the base was to close. Relocation on a cabin crew salary is a non starter.That is not an experience I or others will forget or forgive.
The No2 on my flight had 2 children, a £700 mortgage and no partner, therefore a very bleak future.
This was all done without notice or the usual consulation period.
Most of us blame messers French Rutter and Strong.
The felling is very high. Personnally I would like to find someone to place a "Contract" with.
This is a cyclical business. Hopefully they will get their just deserts in time.
Your facile comments are not required at this time.

BusterHot

Sad though the closure of the BRS base is (I don't fully understand it myself), one has to ask the question. How many of the E145 guys had resigned before the Flybe/BAConnect deal was finalized last week and did this have any bearing on the decision? Come to that, if the numbers are correct that upwards of 150 of the "Rashers" are heading elsewhere (with possibly more to follow), how are Flybe supposed to crew all those flights and man all the bases? I'm no financial genius but even I can see that something somewhere has to give and offering everyone a £10k pay rise and keeping every base open is just not an option.

Flybe have been operating out of BRS in various numbers for years and they've obviously decided that it's not viable "big time". I'm sure they'll keep a few routes up their sleeve for use later, but in order to make BRS pay, I'm sure they'd have to go head to head with easyJet and I suspect right now they'd loose that particular battle. Keeping BRS open for "later use" and absorbing the costs just isn't the way we operate, otherwise I'm sure we'd have a base there right now.

If there are good routes to be serviced out of BRS, then I'm sure Flybe will operate them but using W patterns from other bases. They've just announced a CWL-CDG route and we don't have a base in Cardiff so where the a/c that operates that route will be from remains to be seen.

Announcing the closure of BRS the day after deal was finally signed wasn't a particularly good move especially if the comments about them trying to assure the BRS personnel that they had a future are correct. However, call them bast£$%s if you will, but in the end this is business and sometimes painful decisions have to be made. If you want to see how people were really shafted remember what happened to Buzz when Ryanair got hold of them. It's a cut throat world out there and we're all only as secure as our last pay cheque. Flybe don't have a huge organization behind them to absorb losses for a long time before they pull the plug. Unless we get it right, quickly, we're history.

My condolences to all the BRS personnel; I'm sure you'll have jobs in no time.

G-FLYB

Jim

If you want to retain the rest of the BACON pilots, until the end of their careers, you can do it in one hit. Keep the BACON FS pension scheme and you will retain all of the crews. Easy.............

W_18

Everyone has a price mate but I think it would take more than that after BRS.
Look at the thread on people leaving.

Ghengis Cant

"Want to land a BIG airline job without sacrificing your lifestyle?"

"Land a job at any of our bases"

"Its all yours when you land a better job with us"

So states the Flight wrapper amidst the lies about pay and a picture of a family man playing with his kids after work.

Apart from the pukeworthy hypocricy and lies it really is hard to see the sense in what is now happening at BRS.

At a stroke it puts further downward pressure on pilot numbers as well as showing FLYBE management as being completely untrustworthy.

Most concerningly it shows a company that one day is blowing its trumpet about expanding and the next is shutting up shop at a highly significant regional base and uspsetting a lot of would be customers as a result.

I wonder who will take the blame for the ridiculous situation FLYBE is now in of having to make pilots redundant whilst at the same time desperately recruiting. It makes no sense whatsoever and shows a company that has already lost the plot.

BusterHot

Just taken a look at the Flight Information page of AIMS for the 25th March onwards which is the date of the full amalgamation. Boy do we have some movements. They haven't added the crew names to the flights yet, but 50 flights out of BHX alone is quite impressive; then check MAN.

Together, we have to make this work. I look forward to meeting you guys.

W_18

The only AIMS i can find on the web is the Association for Improvement in Maternity Services( check it out on google), do Maternity Services now cover departures as well as arrivals and is it more reliable than flybe management?