anotherspaceman

By the sounds of it there are to be plenty of opportunities for both communities in a very much enlarged company. Just needs a sensible approach with an incremental advantage give to the flybe lads and lasses. I am a BACON lad who wants to transfer

rhythm method

What I would be most worried about if I was remaining with flybe/bacon, is that quite a few current Bacon 'managers' have already been pencilled in for the post-merger 'new-flybe'!!!

Current flybe staff need to be worried about that scenario! Ask any of your potential future colleagues about the management track record, and also feel the hairs on the back of your neck rising when you start to see the Bacon old-boy network re-emerging from the dungheap that British Airways left from BRAL & Manx & Brymon!

I'd be very wary... do you know how much money they had to pay out in settlements for victimisation/grievances due to their illegal/incompetent/inept managerial abuse in the last couple of years?!!!!

It's a scary situation for all my friends on both sides of the newly acquired fence if these plonkers are given charge of the day-to-day running of the company.

I hope Flybe manages to flourish if/when this all goes through. We all have too many friends and relations still working there.. I definitely do not want to wish malice on any of these very fine people... I just think that too many of the old boy network are going to parachute into these positions and it will be a backward step instead of the breath of fresh air which Flybe will need.

Good luck.

The Little Prince

Having come to terms with the idea of some sort of seniority adjustment, and also with the idea that this whole merger may mean less chance of a 195 for some of us, having grudgingly accepted that maybe eventually it will benefit all of us, I'm beginning to think again.
I sympathise hugely with Cutoff and co , but really, looking at the plans, looking at the mess this appears to be turning into, and now looking at how IC and BW in particular have started to behave - coupled with the point that rhythm method has made, I have to wonder if this is all a workable idea. Somehow, we seem to have been allocated some real duffers of managers that I know all too well, and who have been involved in some Kilimanjaro sized cockups!!!! when with BACON and its predecessors. I just wonder if Flybe REALLY needs this forced expansion - if the deal fell through, then who would pick up the bits of BACON RIND on the floor - I can't think of an organisation big enough. More, if the deal DOES go through, and we have Bacon Rasher influence in many more middle and senior management positions, we could all be facing yet ANOTHER rerun of the last six years of BRAL/BACX/BACON/RASHER. I couldn't go through all that again. Flybe have turned the corner anyway, perhaps, as I recall the great TRPL saying many times..."What we need is a period of consolidation"... of course we never got that, and look where we all ended up - some of us, me included, got fed up and left, and now it's all coming back to haunt us!!!!!!!!!!! Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I sympathise deeply and genuinely with all you Rashers, and would not like to see bits of rind fall onto the floor in the journey between frying pan and dustbin - however, altruism apart, me and mine come first! If we don't get some coherent plan, with everyone on board, and NO MORE BACON MANAGERS, then my vote is to consign the idea to the dustbin of Aviation History. And then throw Tim de la Fosse, Hutchings, Evans and Witts, along with Phelan and Deacon in before the lid is welded shut!

If you have a silken purse of sorts (or at least a profitable one), attaching a Sow's Ear, (A BACON Sowarny ) won't help.

anotherspaceman

Well TLP, I appreciate many of the points you make. BACON has several managers who are to go across to the new company. Cotton is one, a real people person and a good bloke. Ian Baston, Steve Deverall and James Smart are also good blokes (Smarty is a bit pompous) but may not have a post after integration. Deacon is not to migrate, neither is Hutchings, Phelan or Evans - thank god

I see the problem being for both companies now if it dosen't happen. BACON is stuffed cos the wings are falling off anf flybe will be broke after French has to pay Willie wads of cash for damages.

Not a pretty thought

Glad you managed to come around a bit to the seniority thing etc and hope that we can all achieve are different aspirations. Moi - no interest in a 195 - your are welcome to it!

The Little Prince

Hadn't heard about IB, I agree with you, he's a top banana! What is his projected post to be?
Cotton? As I recall many of us thought that he was somewhat overstressed and achieved rank through licking TDLF and subsequently TDLF's protege who we already have here - 'nuff said! Not many original ideas, some might say just a good example of someone else promoted somewhat beyond their abilities.
Smart - a BIT pompous!!!???!!! well, if you count being a member of the Worshipful Company of Archers or whatever, and sucking up to Minime on most occasions, he'll be great.
Some might say that Deverall achieved his elevation solely for the latter reason as well, and became quite insufferable afterwards. Considered by many to be a Hutch/Deak clone.

It might be thought, by some, that Flybe would do better promoting some of its home grown talent rather than importing the remains of failed airline management. I wonder if anyone knows how many of these guys were involved in the processes of victimisation and failed (expensive ) persecution. I know Deverall was involved from the start in that shameful business of trying to discipline an Emb Captain for declining to go into discretion.....

Do you have any more names for us - I was very glad to note, as you say, that at least That would really be the end of the world.

JAR

Sun 25th March 2007 sees many more aircraft registrations on FlyBe's daily rotation.

flyingbug

Hello JAR,

what do you mean (which airport/s, registrations)?

FB

JAR

Aircraft ER4s with reg G-EMB*, DH3s G-BRY*, 143 G-OINV at all bases on the combined route structure.I guess thats EMB145s, Dash3s and 146-300.

anotherspaceman

TLP - IB is a top bloke - rumoured to be the new head of flight crew!
Cotton - Disagree - he is as sound as they come. He was overstressed because his boss did f**k all and left it all to him. Rumour is he may be to work for him again. He is more chilled now.
Smart - ok 'bit' was a bit of an understatement! Anyway minime won't be there for him to suck up to.

I am sure flybe has a heap of talented potential managers and it would be good for them to achieve their aspirations I agree.

As far as others go Green is off to s*ittyfryer and the monkey will be dumped at the earliest opportunity I am sure.

The BACON cabin crew have all been asked to attend a WTF day. This is a Welcome to Flybe Day or has been knicknamed the 'what the f**K day'

Most people this side are quite enthusiastic.

What are your opinions about the scheduling agreement?

What in your reformed opinion would be the most equitable way for BALPA to merge the seniority list?

JAR

Those are the regs of the BACON fleets.

The Little Prince

OK then, jury out on DC, I'm sure it will be fair to judge him by his actions - what is his post to be? Oh, and please, please, who is the Monkey?? I thought this was initials DM, but gather I am wrong.
Ref the scheduling agreement, I would love yours to be implemented, but have to live in the real world. I would suggest we are concerned that it may be conflated with a potential crewing agreement which may do us more harm than is currently expected, mainly with regard to seniority, although I freely admit the issues are not connected. There is also concern, despite all the talk, that it is expensive - we certainly don't want to become overcooked BACON ourselves!
With regard to the seniority list merge, after a lot of thought, I would suggest that it be proportionate to the size of the lists rather than a straightforward DOJ, otherwise inevitably the longer serving Rashers will clean up. I don't think it should affect ANY current Flybe posts, so no demotions, nor should it affect any bids already into Flybe for the 195. In practice, the demography will probably make it perfectly fair anyway, because there are unlikely to be many Rashers or bits of Rind who want to move (after all, that's why you all stayed at your present regional bases) and hence they will get (presumably) first crack at any 195s going to bases with no current Flybe presence. The IOM and INV are cases in point.

I hope you enjoy the "What the Fluckbe" day!

anotherspaceman

DC - not sure about post but glad jury out! - thats fair.

Indeed - his initials are DM. He was re appointed to 146 Fleet manager. OD has resigned from combined 146/RJ manager. Rumour has it to join CAA. Green has taken RJ manager job and DM the 146 on a TEMPORARY basis until the fleet is (quickly) absorbed into the flybe AOC at signing.

Andrew Strong came to see us. He said that there was a cost to the scheduling agreement but that he knew, and wanted to make clear, that it was NOT this that 'cooked' the BACON. He said he was willing to take a good proportion of the cost but not all. He said he recognised the current lifestyle (or lack of - his words) required to be addressed.

With regard to the list - nobody wants anybody to clean up or to take or have an advantage. A thought would be to give the flybe an increment and the merge them no 1 on flybe then no 1 on BACON then 2 on flybe etc etc. It wiould be illegal for it to have an adverse effect on anybodies current position/type/seat etc - no fear of that

WTF day for cabin crew only - at the moment!

Now we have BACON and rashers etc what about flymaybes etc. Any rashers any ideas?

skianyn vannin

DM is indeed "The Monkey". Word on the streets is that his reappointment as146 FM maybe a lot more permanent than some may have wished. I'm sure his old mucker BW will take care of him. After all DM was responsible for some of the murky goings on when BW was appointed fleet senior trainer. Maybe now BW will reciprocate the favour!

Dash-7 lover

Heard that the deal signing that 'may' happen on the 28th will go right to the wire again.....Flybe haven't released their main summer schedules yet and are itching to get going before they have no summer at all. They may be looking at October and are rumoured to be quite upset over the crew shortage cancellations. The second cabin crew ballot result was supposed to be today but not heard the result......
If the deal doesn't get signed - what happens to Cityflyer???? (actually - who cares?)

Tyreplug

If you were not already aware the sched' agreement was signed up yesterday between flybe & connect. It will appear on view very soon. Believe this was the last obstacle in the way of completion of the deal. looks like it's a dead cert now!.... Remember this a rumour network - but this is a bloody good rumour!

Buy one get one free

Last two days FLYBE people have been approaching pilots in the terminal buildings at EDI & GLA handing out leaflets and CD roms inviting them to apply on-line. Great amusement in the Loganair crew rooms I am told.
Road shows next week.

Some might say this is a bit "cheeky" - it is clearly a sign of how short of crews they will be, and that they are trying anything to get the numbers up.


Nearly as bad as being intercepted by timeshares touts at GCTS.

Slackbladder31

Has anybody any idea roughly how many flight deck are leaving BHX?

I ask for selfish reasons as I am due to start with Flybe in a couple of months and was told there was no chance of BHX basing at interview.

I wish everyone good luck with what every path they take. I have been following this thread with interest thinking what the blazes have I got myself into?

anotherspaceman

A very fine mess indeed

granddaddy

I don't want to pee on your chips,but,

Have you seen the Euromanx thread reference possible deal with Flybe on IOM routes:

Whispermode

Just to respond to tiggerific69, of course I don't wish ill of those Bacon employees who may or may not eventually join up with flybe, from whatever role or position they come from or go to.
My concern is one of practicalities. I have worked for flybe for nearly 10 yrs now and have endured, along with many of my colleagues, the mess and disruption that we have all had to go through since 2000 when we all but went to the wall. Unlike some in Bacon we at flybe have had no 'charm' offensive or management visits, talk of scheduling agreement is exactly that - just talk, nothing in writing and everything has dragged on in a complete vacuum for us here with clearly more and more Bacon people leaving, from ground and air positions.
I know what flybe was like when we had more aircraft than we could crew, when 30% of the pilot workforce turned over in a year, when, as a line trainer, I barely knew which day of the week it was let along from which base I was operating from and I can see it all about to happen again. I have absolutely nothing against any employee from Bacon (my best man happens to be an ex Brymon Bacon) but I can just see the bad old days coming around the corner again, especially in the training area - do you know we are now being offered a bonus to recruit a pilot for flybe?
So, to make it absolutely clear, good luck to all Bacon employees whether you stay or go but I still wish this deal had been better thought through because I don't have any confidence in the flybe infrastructure being able to cope with the Co doubling in size overnight.

RAFAT

Hit the nail on the head with that comment Whispermode. IC & BW are already struggling to stay afloat, and making a whole bunch of mistakes as they go along.