Single Spey

Aren't seniority lists now illegal as they are a form of age discrimination?

pebbles4308

Hi everyone

Dont mean to put a dampner on the whole Flybe thing!! but if you can get out and get another job now i take it.... During the summer season i worked 200 hour months many people did 65hour weeks we do a lot of 6day weeks with six sector days, we always worked to our maximum and minimum rest!! its totally exausting many crew are trying to get out at the moment as its hard to have a life and work .(we also clean cabin on turnarounds when away from base except on flights over 1hr 30min)

We have just got union reg which we had a formal vote across all bases as Flybe refused to give us reg straight away, they kept on calling new crew into the office saying its really bad to have a union-what kind of co does that!!! 93% voted yes!!! we need a union as rules and laws get broken every day.

Average pay for a junior is around £1100 a month and senior £1400.

Good luck to all of you guys out there i hope all goes well for you.

100above

I only wish we could submit a question for Evans's Q & A list on the BAConnect Intranet site. Given that he and his team have rubbished Jersey/British European/flybe at every staff forum I have been to (we dont believe their figures, the numbers dont stack up, their cash is running out...etc) I am intrigued as to why suddenly this basket case company now saddled with our supposedly loss making airline and our unsuitable fleet is now the best thing since sliced bread. My question is David - were you lying through your teeth then, or are you lying to us now ? How this inept individual stayed in post I will never know. 2 lean, mean profitable regional airlines trashed by mismanagement, waste (touring rosters ????, multiple nightstops, taxis here there and everywhere), inability to respond to changing market conditions until it was too late and letting go profitable operations (eg PLH-LGW to Southwest, ABZ-LSI to Loganair), the list is endless. BA - we didnt deserve what you did to us and you sure as hell didnt deserve the great people you messed around. To those of us at the pointy end and our fellow crew members in the cabin, this will be hard, but flybe at least have a grasp of what it takes to run a regional airline. They have done what CitiExpress should have done and might have achieved if we had the right management in place. To our colleagues like the ground staff at BRS and many others throughout the network who are soon to be out of a job, my heart goes out to you.

L337

I was based in the regions with BA, at BHX, for 10 years. I watched it go from an efficient, happy profitable operation. To a loss making, desperately unhappy place, in a few short years.

The mystery to me is why it happened. But an even greater mystery is why the architects of that total disaster have been promoted and continue to prosper at LHR mainline.

So whilst you did not deserve BA, BA does not deserve these people either. And what is echoed over and over again in these pages, and other threads is the utter mediocrity of BA managers.

God help us.

BAe146s make me cry

As per our staff meetings at Exeter, NO redundancies are planned.
I'm certain in the next 3+ months, the forthcoming changes won't
suit all and I know a few of you won't be able to adapt readily
for various reasons.

I am employed by FlyBe (not management) but I do hope that the joining of FlyBe & BACON benefits all - staff, customers & the regions we serve.

I can appreciate the history of mismanagement within BA (I was a
victim of it too) but I think now's a good time to leave that behind.

Best wishes to all concerned for the future

BAe146??

Dash-7 lover

Thinking last night that I would out money on the fact that within 5 years Flybe will be a BA franchise!

WW is having his arse felt over the pension deficit and recent terror losses and also fleet renewal and needs to be seen to be doing something by the shareholders. The pressure is on to do something quickly. BA will never give up the regions in the long term. It's just cheaper for them to hand it all to FLYBE for the chopping and shaving and reforming! Short term pain for long term gain. It won't take alot of paint to change it to FLYBA.....why the 15% stake.....?

Cyrano

But why?

FlyBE doesn't fly into Heathrow and is unlikely to do so in any foreseeable future - it's not part of their model. What then would induce flyBE to agree to hand a % of all their revenue to BA in exchange for the chance to throw away the flyBE brand and all the marketing £££ that's gone into it in the regions? What does flyBE get? No, sorry - don't see that happening at all.

fmgc

Have to agree with that, can't see why FlyBe would need to become a franchise.

Their Brand is strong enough now that it doesn't need BA or BA Ticketing.

FlyBe's market share must now be fantastic in the regional sector.

brain fade

100Above

I agree with your post.
Speaking as a worker;

We are betrayed!

That £108m write down on 'BAConnect' is really the write down on BAR, whose gigantic losses are still the stuff of legend.

We've been used as a vehicle to sort out BAR and now that that task is complete, we've been chopped.

BRAL was profitable. Brymon was too. Add BRAL/Brymon to BAR? Shambles!

If I see WW in a bar, I'll kick his c*nt in!

ATIS

For those of you sweating about Staff Travel, I'm ex Flybe and I found that Staff travel at Flybe was one of the best around. Except for BA and VS employees

Don't know what you guys get at BACON but at Flybe it was generally
ID90/95's on loads of carriers as these deals were inherited from the Jersey European days and their interline agreements. Carriers I used to use were AF, EK, BA and VS, that pretty much covers most of the planet.

Regarding Flybe salaries well thats a whole new ball game. Good luck to you all.

tallaonehotel

Shafted is a better term.....
Nothing came out of the management forum today by all accounts, we await flybe's management team to visit the bases.
All I want for Christmas santa is a job to pay the bills.

Human Factor

Not if it's based upon experience and there are some younger people who are more senior than older people. There is an inherent risk of thread creep though....

wings level

The reason for the 15% is that FlyBe can't afford / will not pay BA for BACON, therefore they have taken a share in FlyBe that will be redeamed when FlyBe goes on the stock market next year. Give now and get paid later when it is worth something.

FlyBe have gained several hundred flight deck crew, many rated on the Dash, all of BACONs routes and slots. All the BACON aircraft will go, but at who's expence? Kind of solves your crewing problems in one go.


What does BA get? Disposes of BACON and actually gets paid for it, looks good for BA's shareholders

BluffOldSeaDog

We get (got) unlimited ID90s & ID80s after 6months employment. One ID100 after 7years employment and for LHS 1 confirmed "J (club) class" ID100, both per year.

In all honesty it's one of the very few things I'll miss if we loose it all

tiggerific_69

100above and brain fade, very well said

Bacon Slicer

What an awful mess!

Thank god the best people to rescue BACX/Bacon have stepped in. The Atmosphere/culture at BACON would have killed it eventually. Lots of really good BACON people can move ahead in this takeover, however some Muppet's will remain and Exeter WILL rub these idiots out eventually, they ain't stupid despite coming from Devon!.

You all at least deserve a face to face with WW in say BHX or MAN - demand it as part of your farewell deal! - invite those nice people from
Didsbury as well to the party. What a ball you could all have.

Like somebody posted a day or two ago - how could PH,DD,CP present themselves at an interview for anything more
than a MaCDonalds drive-Through!

Every Dog has it's day! Good luck chaps.

p.s ALSO - No more silly hats to wear - brill!

Sky God

Having had the opportunity in the past to chat to the ‘hatless’ fellows at FLY BE I’ve been put under the impression that they work staggering long days/weeks without the rewards of a Ryanair. Perhaps I’ve just been speaking to a grumpy few – it would be nice to get a proper idea of the work pattern at our new owners. So come on Hatless Chappies give us an idea of your roster on the forum – that’s if you have a roster FLY BE sticks to.

And, hey, Brain Dead! Keep your hands off WW. He’s mine. Might just have to wake up the Gimp.

Riker

I would expect that Ryanair and Easy will continue to hire in droves into the future - perhaps Bacon and Flybe pilots who qualify in terms of hours or applicable jet time (Barbie or 146 time - I understand not as valuable as 737 or A320 time) should apply and then move on... Why stay if you could move on? Let the junior pilots with no jet time or just FO time progress and put up with the uncertainty and low pay.

Excluding the desire to live at a remote outstation or non-Easy/Ryan hub, why would someone wish to stay at Flybe long term when other opportunities at fast-growing LCCs exist?

AlphaCharlie

Sample roster:

4 on - 1 off (36 hours not a minute more) - 3 on - 2 off (56 hours and not a minute more) - 4 on - 1 off - 5 on - 2 off - 5 on - 2 off

Start early, finish on a late with minimum time off as per the current scheduling agreement.

Latest pay offer (yes the one started negotiating on back in Jan 06 for the year Apr 06 - Mar 07) was received from BALPA today ... errrr I think they are having a laugh, please someone tell me its a joke right ... Guys? Anybody?

The Little Prince

Just a thought. I left BACON of my own free will, and chose Flybe nearly a year ago. I gave up a seniority number which was actually quite high. I have a net salary cut, no jet, but a life again. Yes, I work harder than at BACON, but I ENJOY it. The guys and gals are just as professional, just as much fun, and the management - well, a profit of 21 mil versus a loss of 6 mil = difference of 27 mil over the same six month period. We must be doing something right.
Now, along come all my old mates - and you all know who you are. Please tell me why, as a (relatively) junior Flybe pilot, I should be bypassed, (even with any of the fancy options being talked about) by long service BACONs who didn't choose to do like what I did? Nope, that doesn't seem fair to me. I joined looking ahead to an Emb 190, I joined because I believe this Company has the ethos and the ability to do just what TRPL did. All of my erstwhile muckers didn't have the faith, or the guts to make the move. That's not criticism, that's a fact, (and I had nearly fifteen years in the various incarnations of Pigpen). Anyway, you take my point. And if I have a point, then all my present colleagues in Flybe have an even bigger one.
So, while I don't want to create any ruckus, I'm afraid that I cannot vote in favour of any kind of seniority amalgamation. Fair is fair, I voted with my feet, and obviously y'all have the same opportunity!
Hope you decide to come across, I think I appreciate this airline even more than the natives, and that's because I've seen how it was (with TRPL), and I've seen how utterly cr@p it can get (Hutchings) and then again seen it like Manx/BRAL was in, say, the mid - late nineties when we were cleaning up. Reference money ( ) of course we all want as much as possible, but it is really economic suicide to expect to get an EZY/Ryan paypacket from this scale of operation. I'd much much much rather have a secure company and slightly less take home than have to exist under Hutchings etc, never knowing from one month to the next whether I would still have a job next week/month/year - and the end result was just what everyone predicted while vainly hoping they were just being pessimistic, and that somehow it would all work out. I'd be interested to know genuinely how many of you would not have left ages ago had it not been for the lure of the FS pension scheme.
But if you take anything from this, let it be - with all the best wishes in the world - the seniority list is non-negotiable, and you will be if you think otherwise.


PS - PH / CP / DD in Macdonalds?????? Chr1st, that would solve the obesity problem because the chain would be closed inside a year!