FlyBe to acquire BA Connect (Crew thread - no spotters)
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Overall, it's gotta be good news. Job security and working beneath a commercial team who know their business.
The big issue over the coming months will be the integration of the two workforces, with seniority lists and terms and conditions being potential hot potatos.
There's gonna be a lot of hard work ahead for both company councils, probably more than they will be able to do without some serious resources from BALPA HQ.
Exciting and interesting times ahead methinks.
The big issue over the coming months will be the integration of the two workforces, with seniority lists and terms and conditions being potential hot potatos.
There's gonna be a lot of hard work ahead for both company councils, probably more than they will be able to do without some serious resources from BALPA HQ.
Exciting and interesting times ahead methinks.
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I can't think of any company that discusses its disposition and acquisition plans before actually doing them (unless it is clear they plan to get rid of a unit).
Not saying anything about BACON probably was more about trying to find a willing buyer and deciding whether or not to continue with the operations versus the benefits/downsides of selling.
BACON has never been profitable (even before being rebranded). It was given 2 years to get profitable (stated publicly).
The writing was on the wall.
Not saying anything about BACON probably was more about trying to find a willing buyer and deciding whether or not to continue with the operations versus the benefits/downsides of selling.
BACON has never been profitable (even before being rebranded). It was given 2 years to get profitable (stated publicly).
The writing was on the wall.
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I have a horrendous feeling about the seniority lists - if (no, don't laugh!!!) BACON had bought Flybe, would YOU give up your place on the list, and maybe your course or Emb 170 command to one of the new pilots? I doubt it. You'd say, with some justification that they should be grateful for a job.
Similarly the salaries etc. I believe we're paid more, quite a bit more. How can that possibly continue? Flybe not un-naturally will not want their new acquisition to lose money. It will be all change I think,but anything to escape the dead hand of BA.
What I really want is to be a fly on the wall of Hutchings / Deacon / Phelan's next interview.
They may just all be about to discover that it really DOES pay to be nice to people on the way up - 'cos you may meet them on the way down.....and OUT!
Similarly the salaries etc. I believe we're paid more, quite a bit more. How can that possibly continue? Flybe not un-naturally will not want their new acquisition to lose money. It will be all change I think,but anything to escape the dead hand of BA.
What I really want is to be a fly on the wall of Hutchings / Deacon / Phelan's next interview.
They may just all be about to discover that it really DOES pay to be nice to people on the way up - 'cos you may meet them on the way down.....and OUT!
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Ground Staff
Sorry to barge into this thread but just had to fight the corner of the ground staff in the regions. We have been told pretty much nothing about the sale, only that it has been agreed. I work in EDI and Bacon make up pretty much of 50% of our workload. All we have been told is that serviceair may take on bacon in EDI and that we will be TUPE'd accross, nothing more nothing less !!! Will they take us all ? dont know, what if we dont want to work for a handling agent ? dont know. Will there be severence/redundancy offered ? doubt it. Can we relocate/redeploy ? doubt it !! Thanks 
WW !!!
WW !!!
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Nothing here about the TUPE either.....
FLYBE TO BECOME LARGEST REGIONAL AIRLINE IN EUROPE
Flybe announces that it has reached agreement in principle with British Airways whereby it will acquire British Airways’ BA Connect regional airline business, subject to a number of conditions precedent including the completion of due diligence.
The proposed acquisition will create an enlarged business with over £600m in revenues and carrying nearly 10 million passengers. The business will be operated in line with the successful Flybe business model concentrating on short haul domestic and European major city markets.
BA will ensure that the new business has sufficient funding in order to achieve its growth targets and the transition out of the current BA Connect fleet. In return it will acquire a 15% stake in the new business.
The acquisition (which does not include BA Connect’s London City or Manchester / JFK routes) will significantly increase Flybe’s route network both in the UK and continental Europe making Flybe Europe’s largest regional airline.
The new larger Flybe will have the following dimensions:
159 Routes, including 35 new routes
10 Million Passengers
£600m in revenues
Europes largest regional airline
Operating from 23 UK and 36 European airports
70 aircraft by the end of 2007
Whilst reinforcing Flybe’s domestic UK presence, the acquisition will also result in an increase in the proportion of Flybe’s business passengers with new routes to key European commercial centres including Paris, Düsseldorf, Frankfurt and Milan.
Flybe plans to accelerate its current fleet renewal programme and will phase out all of the existing BA Connect fleet as soon as possible. The current Flybe £1.2bn investment programme in Bombardier Q400 and Embraer 195 aircraft will be complete by 2009. At that time Flybe will have a fleet of 82 aircraft, which will be one of the youngest and most environmentally sensitive fleets in the world. In line with its environment policy Flybe will by then have reduced fuel consumption by over 50% per seat.
The acquisition comes as Flybe announces its strongest ever summer trading period, resulting in an operating profit of £20.5 million* for the six months to 30th September 2006, which compares to an operating profit of £12.4 million* in the same period on 2005.
This summer’s result follows a solid performance in the financial year 2005/2006 when the business delivered operating profits, before exceptionals, of £4.8 million whilst pursuing a focused strategy of major route expansion to position the business for long term profit growth. The decision was also taken to write down the asset value of its BAE 146 Aircraft which will be retired over the next 12 months by taking a £6.4 million exceptional charge.
With its strategic platform in place, and the business delivering the promised strong trading results, Flybe is well positioned to take the next step in its evolution, by purchasing BA Connect.
The Board of Flybe has taken the decision that, in the event of the successful acquisition of BA Connect, any change to the current ownership structure should be deferred, to allow for the management team time to focus fully on the integration of the enlarged business.
Commenting on the proposed acquisition, Jim French, Chairman and Chief Executive of Flybe, stated:
“Through this acquisition we are seeking to build a bigger, stronger and even more defensible Flybe.
The Flybe business model concentrates on domestic and European city markets and has been incredibly successful over the last 4 years. This acquisition will allow us to bring our growth plans forward by two years.
The new enlarged Flybe should provide strong employment prospects for operational staff in BA Connect. Once the acquisition is completed Flybe will seek to replace BA Connects existing fleet with the fuel-efficient and environmentally friendly Bombardier Q400 and Embraer 195.
Flybe is proudly headquartered in, and serves the UK regions. We believe this announcement today means that the UK regions will now have their own strong and well financed airline, designed to support the needs of the buoyant regions of the UK, in line with the Government White Paper of 2003.
This acquisition will make Flybe the largest regional airline in Europe and one of the largest in the UK by any measurement. Across Europe more consumers will benefit from Flybe’s efficient and friendly service at a price, which provides outstanding value.”
Flybe announces that it has reached agreement in principle with British Airways whereby it will acquire British Airways’ BA Connect regional airline business, subject to a number of conditions precedent including the completion of due diligence.
The proposed acquisition will create an enlarged business with over £600m in revenues and carrying nearly 10 million passengers. The business will be operated in line with the successful Flybe business model concentrating on short haul domestic and European major city markets.
BA will ensure that the new business has sufficient funding in order to achieve its growth targets and the transition out of the current BA Connect fleet. In return it will acquire a 15% stake in the new business.
The acquisition (which does not include BA Connect’s London City or Manchester / JFK routes) will significantly increase Flybe’s route network both in the UK and continental Europe making Flybe Europe’s largest regional airline.
The new larger Flybe will have the following dimensions:
159 Routes, including 35 new routes
10 Million Passengers
£600m in revenues
Europes largest regional airline
Operating from 23 UK and 36 European airports
70 aircraft by the end of 2007
Whilst reinforcing Flybe’s domestic UK presence, the acquisition will also result in an increase in the proportion of Flybe’s business passengers with new routes to key European commercial centres including Paris, Düsseldorf, Frankfurt and Milan.
Flybe plans to accelerate its current fleet renewal programme and will phase out all of the existing BA Connect fleet as soon as possible. The current Flybe £1.2bn investment programme in Bombardier Q400 and Embraer 195 aircraft will be complete by 2009. At that time Flybe will have a fleet of 82 aircraft, which will be one of the youngest and most environmentally sensitive fleets in the world. In line with its environment policy Flybe will by then have reduced fuel consumption by over 50% per seat.
The acquisition comes as Flybe announces its strongest ever summer trading period, resulting in an operating profit of £20.5 million* for the six months to 30th September 2006, which compares to an operating profit of £12.4 million* in the same period on 2005.
This summer’s result follows a solid performance in the financial year 2005/2006 when the business delivered operating profits, before exceptionals, of £4.8 million whilst pursuing a focused strategy of major route expansion to position the business for long term profit growth. The decision was also taken to write down the asset value of its BAE 146 Aircraft which will be retired over the next 12 months by taking a £6.4 million exceptional charge.
With its strategic platform in place, and the business delivering the promised strong trading results, Flybe is well positioned to take the next step in its evolution, by purchasing BA Connect.
The Board of Flybe has taken the decision that, in the event of the successful acquisition of BA Connect, any change to the current ownership structure should be deferred, to allow for the management team time to focus fully on the integration of the enlarged business.
Commenting on the proposed acquisition, Jim French, Chairman and Chief Executive of Flybe, stated:
“Through this acquisition we are seeking to build a bigger, stronger and even more defensible Flybe.
The Flybe business model concentrates on domestic and European city markets and has been incredibly successful over the last 4 years. This acquisition will allow us to bring our growth plans forward by two years.
The new enlarged Flybe should provide strong employment prospects for operational staff in BA Connect. Once the acquisition is completed Flybe will seek to replace BA Connects existing fleet with the fuel-efficient and environmentally friendly Bombardier Q400 and Embraer 195.
Flybe is proudly headquartered in, and serves the UK regions. We believe this announcement today means that the UK regions will now have their own strong and well financed airline, designed to support the needs of the buoyant regions of the UK, in line with the Government White Paper of 2003.
This acquisition will make Flybe the largest regional airline in Europe and one of the largest in the UK by any measurement. Across Europe more consumers will benefit from Flybe’s efficient and friendly service at a price, which provides outstanding value.”
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Cornflake, I think you are quite correct. The previous trauma, the BA acquisition of BRAL & Brymon, was a merger of two ostensibly similar companies and it was only right that a degree of equality was applied. The current situation is a takeover, the BACON girls and boys are the taken-over and are hardly in a position to dictate terms.
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Well, as far as I can tell, the only thing of any value that Flybe gets out of this deal, is the aircrew.
If a deal isn't struck that suits people (and I don't mean every whim is pandered to) then I personally won't be coming!
There's more to life than BACon & Flybe. I don't really mind coming over to Flybe- but I'm not bending over so they can give me a good shafting!
There will be a heck of a lot of negotiating over the next few months. Pensions, TUPE, seniority, basing, commands, jet or TP etc. etc.
NOTHING is a done deal yet.
Of course there is also the intra-BACon question of who stays with the RJ's.
Quite apart from the issue of 'how desirable' this is. It may be that a very junior pilot on the RJ fleet gets to 'stay' with 'BACon' while a very senior ERJ-145 pilot has to leave for FLYbe. **** knows how this will be reconciled.
If a deal isn't struck that suits people (and I don't mean every whim is pandered to) then I personally won't be coming!
There's more to life than BACon & Flybe. I don't really mind coming over to Flybe- but I'm not bending over so they can give me a good shafting!
There will be a heck of a lot of negotiating over the next few months. Pensions, TUPE, seniority, basing, commands, jet or TP etc. etc.
NOTHING is a done deal yet.
Of course there is also the intra-BACon question of who stays with the RJ's.
Quite apart from the issue of 'how desirable' this is. It may be that a very junior pilot on the RJ fleet gets to 'stay' with 'BACon' while a very senior ERJ-145 pilot has to leave for FLYbe. **** knows how this will be reconciled.
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Jordan - living up to you're name (very shallow / big t*t).
As a matter of fact you clearly do not understand the costs associated with closure..it was never a financially realistic option BA had.
With regard for it being the best thing that has ever happened to BA Connect that is an "arrogant and pompus" statement.
Don't you dare assume that just because we wear a BA uniform (which is actually the cheapest bit of cloth I have ever put on) we have an attitude problem.Most of the 600 pilots are great boys and girls. If you have had a bad experience with one or two then you are either unfortunate or you deserve it.
If you have anything further on to say on the subject PM me and we will have a chat without the cloak of anonymity.
As a matter of fact you clearly do not understand the costs associated with closure..it was never a financially realistic option BA had.
With regard for it being the best thing that has ever happened to BA Connect that is an "arrogant and pompus" statement.
Don't you dare assume that just because we wear a BA uniform (which is actually the cheapest bit of cloth I have ever put on) we have an attitude problem.Most of the 600 pilots are great boys and girls. If you have had a bad experience with one or two then you are either unfortunate or you deserve it.
If you have anything further on to say on the subject PM me and we will have a chat without the cloak of anonymity.
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BF you are absolutely right. I am prepared to be open minded about all this but as to whether or not I go elsewhere (and there are plenty of jobs out there guys) will depend about the detail. From waht I can see Flybe are goingto have to take some major strides towards our Ts and Cs and a proper scheduling agreement (which is in everyone's interests) else I am going to sling my hook.
If I were Flybe management Id be going into charm overdrive to win our hearts and minds, cos we have had it up to our necks with bullying cretins and are not going to take it all over again.
As to the seniority thing, people are going to have to be pragmatic with give and take on both sides.
One thing is for certain and that is that Flybe boys and girls are going to benefit from the pressure to move their Ts and Cs ahead.
This could be win win or it could turn into a total fiasco....
If I were Flybe management Id be going into charm overdrive to win our hearts and minds, cos we have had it up to our necks with bullying cretins and are not going to take it all over again.
As to the seniority thing, people are going to have to be pragmatic with give and take on both sides.
One thing is for certain and that is that Flybe boys and girls are going to benefit from the pressure to move their Ts and Cs ahead.
This could be win win or it could turn into a total fiasco....
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Noifs
Yep. Flybe could turn out OK.
However I'm going to see about some 'insurance' just in case they fail to come up with something sensible.
The reason they are short of experienced people is because experienced people can choose where to work. And for most of them that DOES NOT mean Flybe!
Believe me, this deal is a LONG way from 'done'.
Now, where's my CV?
Yep. Flybe could turn out OK.
However I'm going to see about some 'insurance' just in case they fail to come up with something sensible.
The reason they are short of experienced people is because experienced people can choose where to work. And for most of them that DOES NOT mean Flybe!
Believe me, this deal is a LONG way from 'done'.
Now, where's my CV?
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Hello Noifsorbuts,
I agree with you.
There is no reason why BACON pilots or Flybe pilots should be had-over during this merger/takeover. What Flybe pilots would certainly fight over would be a list that stops the prospect of progression onto the 195 or RH seat of the Q400 due to shouts of "we already have jet experience".
I am sure that, with thoughtful management of the merger, these issues can be addressed fairly. We see.........
FB
I agree with you.
There is no reason why BACON pilots or Flybe pilots should be had-over during this merger/takeover. What Flybe pilots would certainly fight over would be a list that stops the prospect of progression onto the 195 or RH seat of the Q400 due to shouts of "we already have jet experience".
I am sure that, with thoughtful management of the merger, these issues can be addressed fairly. We see.........
FB
Last edited by flyingbug; 14th Dec 2006 at 07:45.
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Dream on
Hello Noifsorbuts,
I agree with you.
There is no reason why BACON pilots or Flybe pilots should be had-over during this merger (and I use the word merger because I hope thats what it is). A pragmatic approach is required re the seniority list, which must be merged fairly; it is neither the BACON or Flybe pilots fault that the lists will be ammended. Perhaps the fairest way would be no 1 Flybe senior pilot, then No 1 Bacon pilot, No2 Flybe, No 2 Bacon etc etc. What Flybe pilots would certainly fight over would be a list that stops the prospect of progression onto the 195 or RH seat of the Q400 due to shouts of "we already have jet experience".
I am sure that, with thoughtful management of the merger, these issues can be addressed fairly. We see.........
FB
I agree with you.
There is no reason why BACON pilots or Flybe pilots should be had-over during this merger (and I use the word merger because I hope thats what it is). A pragmatic approach is required re the seniority list, which must be merged fairly; it is neither the BACON or Flybe pilots fault that the lists will be ammended. Perhaps the fairest way would be no 1 Flybe senior pilot, then No 1 Bacon pilot, No2 Flybe, No 2 Bacon etc etc. What Flybe pilots would certainly fight over would be a list that stops the prospect of progression onto the 195 or RH seat of the Q400 due to shouts of "we already have jet experience".
I am sure that, with thoughtful management of the merger, these issues can be addressed fairly. We see.........
FB
This is no merger it's a takeover. FlyBe are in charge and they'll look after their own first. They'll want to make shure the newco keeps the flyBe not the BA culture so guys, sorry, but don't dream of equal treatment. 
They'll use you if they need you and you toe the line. Fail on either and it's out.. 
Thats L:ife -to the victor the spoils and all that..
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I've been a Barbie Boy for a number of years, and I've very much enjoyed flying in the Barbie World. I'm expecting, and will put up with, a certain degree of loss of conditions, etc following this takeover. However, there is a point at which I will simply hand back my (still in mint condition) uniform and I.D. and go and do something else. I won't be bending over for anyone.
My thoughts go out to the boys and girls around the BA Connect network who will inevitably have their lives and careers mucked around with.
My thoughts go out to the boys and girls around the BA Connect network who will inevitably have their lives and careers mucked around with.
Last edited by Sky God; 5th Nov 2006 at 11:46. Reason: Can't spell.
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Someone asked about pensions. At flybe the Co pays 12% against 4% from the employee. Co contribution starts at 4% then 8% and to 12% after 3 years. Couldn't say what would happen with the ex-BRAL (?) FS scheme.
On salaries our T/P (Q400) scales are higher than BACON's as are our 146 scales v 145. The contentious bit is Q400v145 and I think that is going to be addressed very shortly.
On salaries our T/P (Q400) scales are higher than BACON's as are our 146 scales v 145. The contentious bit is Q400v145 and I think that is going to be addressed very shortly.
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Lets face it T and C's are going to be the criticial issue here. No BACON jet pilot who ends up flying a FlyBe trash 8 is going to accept your companies turbo prop salaries. Its just too big a backward step.
Many people stayed with CitiExpress/BACON purely for the final salary pension scheme. Now that has disappeared the floodgates will open once again.
After all, why work your nuts off for what FlyBe offer when you can got to easyJet, work the same amount on a real aircraft and earn shed loads more money?
I suspect that the number of BACON jet pilots who transfer to FlyBe will be much lower than they were hoping for.
Many people stayed with CitiExpress/BACON purely for the final salary pension scheme. Now that has disappeared the floodgates will open once again.
After all, why work your nuts off for what FlyBe offer when you can got to easyJet, work the same amount on a real aircraft and earn shed loads more money?
I suspect that the number of BACON jet pilots who transfer to FlyBe will be much lower than they were hoping for.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Just a bit of general stuff for all those concerned.
Latest rumour heard today - Q400 salary will be 90% of jet salary, obviously subject to a ballot in the latest pay deal, yes the one that has been ongoing for 9 months! And as of next year will be the same as jet salary.
I stress that this is a rumour but following on from the CEO's letter last week concerning retention of Q400 crew may hold a bit of water.
The Q400 isn't a bad ship, all the toys up the front, bags of performance, fun and challenging to fly. I don't miss the 146 at all.
The feeling from the flight deck concerning seniority, and this is just a general sweep, is that BAcon crew should join at the bottom. I think this is understandable as there are guys who've done their time in the RHS and/or Q400 and are ready for a command or fleet change and they don't want this taken away from them. However, I heard today that a possibility is to merge the seniority of both lists using DOJ.
This is all pretty much hearsay and I'll leave you to work out if there's any truth in it, I don't know either way, just passing on what I've heard.
Good luck to all concerned.
Latest rumour heard today - Q400 salary will be 90% of jet salary, obviously subject to a ballot in the latest pay deal, yes the one that has been ongoing for 9 months! And as of next year will be the same as jet salary.
I stress that this is a rumour but following on from the CEO's letter last week concerning retention of Q400 crew may hold a bit of water.
The Q400 isn't a bad ship, all the toys up the front, bags of performance, fun and challenging to fly. I don't miss the 146 at all.
The feeling from the flight deck concerning seniority, and this is just a general sweep, is that BAcon crew should join at the bottom. I think this is understandable as there are guys who've done their time in the RHS and/or Q400 and are ready for a command or fleet change and they don't want this taken away from them. However, I heard today that a possibility is to merge the seniority of both lists using DOJ.
This is all pretty much hearsay and I'll leave you to work out if there's any truth in it, I don't know either way, just passing on what I've heard.
Good luck to all concerned.
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Fred,
"Sorry, man but dream on. This is no merger it's a takeover. FlyBe are in charge and they'll look after their own first. "
Yea, that's what we thought at Manx when we tookover Loganair, ...........unfortunately we were wrong too.
"Sorry, man but dream on. This is no merger it's a takeover. FlyBe are in charge and they'll look after their own first. "
Yea, that's what we thought at Manx when we tookover Loganair, ...........unfortunately we were wrong too.
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Cornflake : Well said comment about being nice to people on the way up, but you'll find that these senior guys will have had a back door into mainline agreed a while back. They'll disappear into the woodwork.