BA pilots 'prepared to strike'?
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Fred, I'm talking about the meltdown scenario for you, don't forget the American air-trafficers who thought they couldn't be locked out or replaced.
Whattime, I'm wouldn't join BA as an FO either, but LHS to replace an arrogant Nigel then yes. I gotta job now with no pension just gratuity and I fly what I'm given, no bidding, so it doesn't take much to be a better deal. You guys have just got to get real or you are going under. You compete in the same world market for pilots and passengers.
Whattime, I'm wouldn't join BA as an FO either, but LHS to replace an arrogant Nigel then yes. I gotta job now with no pension just gratuity and I fly what I'm given, no bidding, so it doesn't take much to be a better deal. You guys have just got to get real or you are going under. You compete in the same world market for pilots and passengers.
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We do compete in the same world market. We do have to be realistic.
Stealing of pensions is realistically disgusting and we should stand up for ourselves.
Just because you are not as well off as some of us, doesn't mean we should all stoop to your level. Would you like to drive my 15 year old Ford Granada? I'll swap it for your horse and Cart. Is that what you are trying to say?
Better to swap your Horse for the current Ford Granada, rather than for an
Austin Allegro with a seized engine wouldn't you say?
Your naivety astounds me.
Stealing of pensions is realistically disgusting and we should stand up for ourselves.
Just because you are not as well off as some of us, doesn't mean we should all stoop to your level. Would you like to drive my 15 year old Ford Granada? I'll swap it for your horse and Cart. Is that what you are trying to say?
Better to swap your Horse for the current Ford Granada, rather than for an
Austin Allegro with a seized engine wouldn't you say?
Your naivety astounds me.
Controversial, moi?
In August 1981, 11,500 air traffic controllers who belonged to the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization, known as PATCO, were permanently fired by President Ronald Reagan, two days after their strike began, due to their violation of federal law. The president felt that the union did not seriously consider the ‘no-strike’ provision of their contract and had no other choice, in order to avoid a disastrous disruption in United States airspace.
PATCO workers were then replaced with non-unionized employees. Further to the firing, President Reagan through an Executive Order in 1982, prevented any of the fired air traffic controllers from being rehired in the future by the Federal Aviation Agency (FAA), which oversees U.S. air traffic control. Over the next 3-4 year period new controllers were hired and trained in order to replace those fired, provided with supplementation by the U.S. military, in order to keep planes in the air. In 1993, also by Executive Order, President Bill Clinton rescinded Reagan’s Order, allowing previously fired PATCO workers to be hired again by the FAA, which presently includes several hundred of the previously dismissed.
PATCO workers were then replaced with non-unionized employees. Further to the firing, President Reagan through an Executive Order in 1982, prevented any of the fired air traffic controllers from being rehired in the future by the Federal Aviation Agency (FAA), which oversees U.S. air traffic control. Over the next 3-4 year period new controllers were hired and trained in order to replace those fired, provided with supplementation by the U.S. military, in order to keep planes in the air. In 1993, also by Executive Order, President Bill Clinton rescinded Reagan’s Order, allowing previously fired PATCO workers to be hired again by the FAA, which presently includes several hundred of the previously dismissed.
BA does not have a 'no strike clause'.
BA can sack only the entire striking workforce, not selectively dismiss pilots for striking.
BA cannot do that until 8 weeks into the industrial action and BA has taken such procedural steps as are reasonable to try to resolve the dispute.
BA cannot selectively remploy strikers until 3 months have elapsed.
I can just see a flood of inbound, qualified pilots, being interviewed, employed, trained and online in no time at all, yeah right.
I can also just see this government standing by and letting it happen, one of the few reasons to be grateful for the Labour party I suppose.
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With BA's peculiar SOPs (monitered approach etc) they would be VERY hard pressed to get hired help in. I suggest that the dispruption would have unacceptable safety consequences, and the CAA would become quickly involved.
Sacking all the striking Nigels and hiring Bulgarian desperados is a management wet dream.
Sacking all the striking Nigels and hiring Bulgarian desperados is a management wet dream.
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So its "arrogance" is it, to defend my contractual pension rights? That makes me "arrogant", does it? What a pathetic profession we have become. I am paid less than ANY of my peers - NHS GP's, Lawyers and business executives, FAR less, yet even this is not low enough for some, huh? Of course, I forget, its not a real job at all is it? Anyone with a PPL could do it for a quarter of the money, couldn't they? I am tired of all that Sh@t, for that is what it is. This is a profession worthy of respect AND decent remuneration - a position of trust and enormous responsibility. Just because the latest incumbant of the musical chair that is CEO of BA thinks he can enrich himself at our expense does not make it either inevitable or sensible.
And to all the "business consultants" who plague BA and readily describe professional aviation as a "non-job", a dead end to be ground-down ad- nauseam: you have hit the buffers this time. Type "I am an army of one" into your search engine on pprune and see what kind of response you will get if you keep this up. Actually, dont bother, most of my colleagues are so sick of the Kafkaesque farce that much of BA's operation has become that goodwill is absolutely gone already. AMP anyone?
We are defending our contractual pension rights here, right down to the "meltdown" of BA if that is what it takes. BA without a pension and bidline will not be worth spit, and wont be able to recruit much either - despite gung-ho 'gizz-us yer job' postings here.
And to all the "business consultants" who plague BA and readily describe professional aviation as a "non-job", a dead end to be ground-down ad- nauseam: you have hit the buffers this time. Type "I am an army of one" into your search engine on pprune and see what kind of response you will get if you keep this up. Actually, dont bother, most of my colleagues are so sick of the Kafkaesque farce that much of BA's operation has become that goodwill is absolutely gone already. AMP anyone?
We are defending our contractual pension rights here, right down to the "meltdown" of BA if that is what it takes. BA without a pension and bidline will not be worth spit, and wont be able to recruit much either - despite gung-ho 'gizz-us yer job' postings here.
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Er...not at all easy to train replacements if all the trainers are striking as well!
Apart from the odd manager they are the only ones authorised by the CAA to train/check using BA sops. I think the insurers might also have some say over inexperienced crews flying BA aircraft.
Apart from the odd manager they are the only ones authorised by the CAA to train/check using BA sops. I think the insurers might also have some say over inexperienced crews flying BA aircraft.
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I associate myself with those remarks very closely Fred.
I have many contemporaries from university who have gone on to become medicos and bankers, engineers and chemists. One thing that we share is a craft, a profession with awesome responsibility, a job well worth doing, peoples lives are better, safer, improved by things that we do everyday. We take pride in our professions and some of us are well respected and remunerated.
Except pilots. I earn a fraction of what some of my medical friends earn. A GP earns more than I do. Vets earn multiples of what I earn. If my anaesthetist friend cocks up his job, he could kill his patient and be sued by his family. If I cock my job up I could kill HUNDREDS and my family will be sued by the whole world and pilloried by what we laughingly refer to as ‘the press’ in this country.
The fact is that I don’t kill hundreds everyday, I spend my day salvaging the tattered image of this once great company. My crew and I put smiles back on faces when we do it right, frequently many choose to fly with us again because of what my friends and I do everyday.
Am I worth what I’m paid. Yes I bloody well am! Every pucking fenny!!
And for those of you who shed crocodile tears for our plight at Heathrow, just you try and do 3 or 4 sectors a day at the UK most badly run and poorly resourced airfield! It’s physically draining. While we try to keep some semblance of an operation on the rails, the company plays politics in their ivory towers. Waiting hours for passenger buses, deicing, tugs, stands, highlifts the list goes on and on and on. Despite our valiant efforts to coordinate all of these functions, we sit on the sidelines whilst the various silos work out who is to blame. You couldn’t make this stuff up for a sitcom.
And now in some grotesque parody of Robert Maxwell, the latest cleverdick tells me he’s going to steal my bloody pension!!
At least Maxwell had the modesty to try and hide his larceny!
No, this is it. This is the last straw. I’m sorry Joe Public, I’ve done my best for you over the years, but this is it. Someone is going to steal the bread from my childrens’ mouths whilst they laugh in my face and count their sordid bonus.
They just crossed the line.
I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!
I have many contemporaries from university who have gone on to become medicos and bankers, engineers and chemists. One thing that we share is a craft, a profession with awesome responsibility, a job well worth doing, peoples lives are better, safer, improved by things that we do everyday. We take pride in our professions and some of us are well respected and remunerated.
Except pilots. I earn a fraction of what some of my medical friends earn. A GP earns more than I do. Vets earn multiples of what I earn. If my anaesthetist friend cocks up his job, he could kill his patient and be sued by his family. If I cock my job up I could kill HUNDREDS and my family will be sued by the whole world and pilloried by what we laughingly refer to as ‘the press’ in this country.
The fact is that I don’t kill hundreds everyday, I spend my day salvaging the tattered image of this once great company. My crew and I put smiles back on faces when we do it right, frequently many choose to fly with us again because of what my friends and I do everyday.
Am I worth what I’m paid. Yes I bloody well am! Every pucking fenny!!
And for those of you who shed crocodile tears for our plight at Heathrow, just you try and do 3 or 4 sectors a day at the UK most badly run and poorly resourced airfield! It’s physically draining. While we try to keep some semblance of an operation on the rails, the company plays politics in their ivory towers. Waiting hours for passenger buses, deicing, tugs, stands, highlifts the list goes on and on and on. Despite our valiant efforts to coordinate all of these functions, we sit on the sidelines whilst the various silos work out who is to blame. You couldn’t make this stuff up for a sitcom.
And now in some grotesque parody of Robert Maxwell, the latest cleverdick tells me he’s going to steal my bloody pension!!
At least Maxwell had the modesty to try and hide his larceny!
No, this is it. This is the last straw. I’m sorry Joe Public, I’ve done my best for you over the years, but this is it. Someone is going to steal the bread from my childrens’ mouths whilst they laugh in my face and count their sordid bonus.
They just crossed the line.
I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!
Roobarb
How can I follow that! Your post sums up my feelings perfectly. Crew's have been shoveling the s##t uphill at BA for years now. The management have cut the support structure and staff back to such an extent that it now, often as not, fails to adequately support the money making part of the Company. I am sick to death of standing at the aircraft door at oh-dark thirty in the morning, after a night flight, apologising to the people who pay our wages, trying to explain to them why we have no stands/buses/jetties. Knowing that in all probability there will be no crew transport back to the Car Park....Knowing that at the same time as the crew stand in the rain, abandoned on the tarmac, that the bean counters and cost cutters in Waterside, many of whom never actually visit the "real" airport, are rolling out of bed and making their first coffee, working out how they are going to find another way to make more my job more difficult..............
P*******d off? You bet I am. I no longer care what other people think or earn - I do care that our T&Cs are being bulldozed as we type. I apologise in advance to any of our customers we inconvenience this year, but will not stand by and watch these thieves continue to boost their personal wealth by destroying my lifestyle, my health and my pension.
Rant over...see you on the picket line.
P*******d off? You bet I am. I no longer care what other people think or earn - I do care that our T&Cs are being bulldozed as we type. I apologise in advance to any of our customers we inconvenience this year, but will not stand by and watch these thieves continue to boost their personal wealth by destroying my lifestyle, my health and my pension.
Rant over...see you on the picket line.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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I always used to maintain that a decent pilot saved more than his salary every day so the company got him for free.
As a matter of policy I always used to annotate all my Voyage Reports "Saved *** minutes and ***fuel on flight planned" . A F/O asked me once why I did it, I replied "how would the managers know how much we saved if I don't tell them".
I suggest that all pilots take the suggestion up.
As a matter of policy I always used to annotate all my Voyage Reports "Saved *** minutes and ***fuel on flight planned" . A F/O asked me once why I did it, I replied "how would the managers know how much we saved if I don't tell them".
I suggest that all pilots take the suggestion up.
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BA pilots 'prepare to strike'
I`m new to this posting but i think that the pilots need to think really hard before they go on strike, if thats what they`re to do. All they need do is to look at last year and the year before when the ground staff at BA walked out. They didnt get what they wanted and caused a lot of grief and hassle to the people who pay their wages and mortgages, the CUSTOMERS.
WW arrived at BA with a pension defecit already happening, if anyones to blame lets blame Rod and his leadership team. WW has to try and amke the airline more profitable as so to keep staf in a job. Ba dont want to end up like some us airlines who are laying off staff left right and centre
I`m new to this posting but i think that the pilots need to think really hard before they go on strike, if thats what they`re to do. All they need do is to look at last year and the year before when the ground staff at BA walked out. They didnt get what they wanted and caused a lot of grief and hassle to the people who pay their wages and mortgages, the CUSTOMERS.
WW arrived at BA with a pension defecit already happening, if anyones to blame lets blame Rod and his leadership team. WW has to try and amke the airline more profitable as so to keep staf in a job. Ba dont want to end up like some us airlines who are laying off staff left right and centre
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I'd just like to say that I'm 100% behind you guys in BA. Fark the begrudgers - stand up for yourselves or you'll be walked on for the rest of your days.
And give Willy a big kick in the b@lls for me.
And give Willy a big kick in the b@lls for me.
Paxing All Over The World
Sketty222 You have just registered today and are making your first post in this most powerful of threads. Did you read the preceeding 253 posts that tell the story? I thought not. In PPRuNe, it always pays to read and watch and listen, before you shout. I wonder why you did not?
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Sketty - your post shows your ignorance rather well.
A wildcat strike because you are a bit pissed off with things is one thing.
A legal strike to save 40% of a pension that has been promised to you since day 1 is a different kettle of fish.
There will be absolutely no strike, nor a need for one, if BA come up with a good solution. None of us WANT to strike, and a strike has not been planned, what we are saying is we WILL strike if our pensions are stolen.
Now you tell me, is it right that the staff fund a new set of aircraft, or should the earnings of the company do that?
Would you pay many thousands of pounds from your own pocket to buy BA some new aircraft, so that the shareholders can get richer? Thought not. We don't want to either.
A wildcat strike because you are a bit pissed off with things is one thing.
A legal strike to save 40% of a pension that has been promised to you since day 1 is a different kettle of fish.
There will be absolutely no strike, nor a need for one, if BA come up with a good solution. None of us WANT to strike, and a strike has not been planned, what we are saying is we WILL strike if our pensions are stolen.
Now you tell me, is it right that the staff fund a new set of aircraft, or should the earnings of the company do that?
Would you pay many thousands of pounds from your own pocket to buy BA some new aircraft, so that the shareholders can get richer? Thought not. We don't want to either.
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I'm wondering what people think of the "survey" results in today's Beano. I was reading this earlier today and my jaw was hitting the floor at the sheer brass neck of what "Pravda" was extrapolating from a 10% response.
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Anything the Mori poll comes up with along those lines will be total spin. The questions were all about what you thought of the previous spin, er... I mean information campaign and presentations, not what you thought they should do about the deficit. You had to enter useful info like that in a box asking if you had anything else to tell them (or words to that effect)... Not quite the same as a direct question asking whether you felt the company was justified in robbing your pension.
BikerMark, did you used to live in a maisonette in Hanworth?
BikerMark, did you used to live in a maisonette in Hanworth?
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Originally Posted by BikerMark
I'm wondering what people think of the "survey" results in today's Beano. I was reading this earlier today and my jaw was hitting the floor at the sheer brass neck of what "Pravda" was extrapolating from a 10% response.
Lets hope Drity Tricks 2 goes the same was as Dirty Tricks 1 ???
Perhaps this might be a good time to remind everyone who might think that they are going to get huge support for their cause that history tends to lean towards the concept that sympathy is but a word between sh*t and syphilis in the Oxford Concise Dictionary.