BA pilots 'prepared to strike'?
Spelling isn't too bad but the punctuation is terrible.
To the thread....
I had a look at the BALPA video the other day. Not being a member of BALPA I enquired of my own TU, (sh)AMICUS if they were being as proactive.
Not heard a dicky bird. Says it all really.
Best of luck to you in your fight, let's face it, no other TU has the wherewithall or the guts!
To the thread....
I had a look at the BALPA video the other day. Not being a member of BALPA I enquired of my own TU, (sh)AMICUS if they were being as proactive.
Not heard a dicky bird. Says it all really.
Best of luck to you in your fight, let's face it, no other TU has the wherewithall or the guts!
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Join the Club, Turin!!!
The T&G is doing 99% of F All as well - "Wait and See What BA Comes Back With!!!!" is their attitude - bloody ostriches!!! The T&G has arguably the biggest legal department and accountancy gurus of any Trade Union, yet BALPA is the one prepared to stand up and be counted!!!
I hope the other Unions remember to thank BALPA once a satisfactory result is concluded!!!
The T&G is doing 99% of F All as well - "Wait and See What BA Comes Back With!!!!" is their attitude - bloody ostriches!!! The T&G has arguably the biggest legal department and accountancy gurus of any Trade Union, yet BALPA is the one prepared to stand up and be counted!!!
I hope the other Unions remember to thank BALPA once a satisfactory result is concluded!!!
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Anybody that knows Rainboe knows that he was one of the most vocal pilots in BA , commenting on the downturn in T & C's . Perhaps your flak would be better aimed at BACC who seem to want to do BA managements' job for them (with the odd militant exception) ?
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Bealine,have faith my good colleague!!.
The T&G,in my case BASSA are ready for action,have no doubts.I applaud BALPA for leading the way but I can assure their members there is a large 'wake' of support to follow!!.
WTDWL.
The T&G,in my case BASSA are ready for action,have no doubts.I applaud BALPA for leading the way but I can assure their members there is a large 'wake' of support to follow!!.
WTDWL.
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I am not a BA pilot but I do not hate you. I sympathise with your plight. But as you talk of perspective it think some (ShortFInalFred) are losing theirs. Strike until BA is no more? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? If you go in angry and confrontational and emotional you will lose. Lose your benefits, lose your jobs, lose the livelihood that at least some of you must enjoy.
So think pragmatic and be pragmatic. That way you have half a chance.
So think pragmatic and be pragmatic. That way you have half a chance.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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sugden,
Think of it this way. My T&Cs now give me reasonable pay, a reasonable lifestyle and a decent pension. If BA have their way and I do nothing, I will certainly lose the decent pension. Potentially lifestyle will be effected too if Bidline is targeted next.
If I strike and BA goes under, I am fortunate that I'll be able to get another flying job (possibly for BA2) where I should be able to achieve a similar level of pay and lifestyle (supply and demand), albeit without the decent pension. What do I have to lose by striking until the bitter end?
A lot less than our senior management....
Think of it this way. My T&Cs now give me reasonable pay, a reasonable lifestyle and a decent pension. If BA have their way and I do nothing, I will certainly lose the decent pension. Potentially lifestyle will be effected too if Bidline is targeted next.
If I strike and BA goes under, I am fortunate that I'll be able to get another flying job (possibly for BA2) where I should be able to achieve a similar level of pay and lifestyle (supply and demand), albeit without the decent pension. What do I have to lose by striking until the bitter end?
A lot less than our senior management....
I think many people have a false of the Ts & Cs at BA. My friends at Virg have a much better deal when all things are considered. For an FO their pay is not too dis-simmilar, they work MUCH less hard and have staff travel we can only dream about. Not to mention the time to command ( 7 years against 20+). The days of BA captains with the Ferrari, boat and airoplane are rapidly going.
If I do nothing then BA will take over 35% of my pension and I will be left with Ts&Cs that can be matched or bettered elsewhere.
If I and my colleagues strike and BA goes under then I will lose what small amount of pension I have accrued, I would stand a very good chance of being employed by whoever fills the void (BA2 or whoever) on Ts&Cs that probably match what I'm on now and a pension that might be better than what BA are trying to do (look at a comparison of BARP and Virgin plan).
I can't really see the argument for moderate behaviour and compromise - what have I got to lose?
If I do nothing then BA will take over 35% of my pension and I will be left with Ts&Cs that can be matched or bettered elsewhere.
If I and my colleagues strike and BA goes under then I will lose what small amount of pension I have accrued, I would stand a very good chance of being employed by whoever fills the void (BA2 or whoever) on Ts&Cs that probably match what I'm on now and a pension that might be better than what BA are trying to do (look at a comparison of BARP and Virgin plan).
I can't really see the argument for moderate behaviour and compromise - what have I got to lose?
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And if the worst comes to the worst (not my cup of tea really, but...) Emirates recently advertised for DE 777 Captains. Min req 3500 TT including Boeing glass cockpit command experience.
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Questions as to why to adopt pragmatism.
Because your views of a post BA1 world are, I fear, too optimistic.
So BA don’t give you what you want, you strike, the airline collapses. Then what? You maybe lose all your pension rights, you get no redundancy, you get some of the current months’ salary owed to you if you’re lucky… and that’s it. Meanwhile, you still gotta pay the mortgage.
BA2 will rise from the ashes, sure, but it won’t be a clone of BA1. It will be smaller, nimbler, and there won’t be jobs for everyone in BA1. I can’t see into a crystal ball, but I would imagine that BA2 would drop some international routes, drop some European routes, maybe exit Gatwick completely, and end up a leaner meaner machine concentrating on high end business. That is the market niche where it delivers best value.
So how many pilots will they need? Don’t know, but with changing terms, a completely re-organised structure, perhaps significantly fewer than are currently on the payroll.
Sure, slots will be free at LHR and there will be a scramble to fill them, the lucky airlines then needing more drivers for the extra buses. And look, there are loads of them suddenly on the market! But if you have a choice between hiring someone from an Asian airline who has plenty of hours on type or an ex BA bloke who was so militant he broke the company, who will you go for? You’ll not be going into the market with shining reputations.
So I reckon in a post apocalyptic world some people will be employed by BA2, but by no means all. Some of you will be out on your backside and looking for new jobs. And don’t think that because you have a BA pedigree that they’ll be falling over themselves to have you. You’ll have just completed a thorough job of smashing the pedigree into tiny pieces.
I’m not saying don’t stand up and be counted. I am saying do it with caution and be careful. Be pragmatic. I don’t know the numbers we’re talking, but Flaps62 says 35% of his pension is at stake. So what if BA compromise at 20%? BA get some of what they want, you get to keep some of what they wanted. Do you go for that?
I can’t answer the question and, as I have said before, you have my sympathy. It’s a difficult question to answer and would surely leave a bad taste in the mouth. That’s where you need to be calm, level headed, unemotional. Just like a bad day at the office. Do not make the mistake of assuming you’ll be unscathed by the collapse of BA. Some of you will certainly be hit badly by the falling wreckage.
Think carefully before you go over the top.
Because your views of a post BA1 world are, I fear, too optimistic.
So BA don’t give you what you want, you strike, the airline collapses. Then what? You maybe lose all your pension rights, you get no redundancy, you get some of the current months’ salary owed to you if you’re lucky… and that’s it. Meanwhile, you still gotta pay the mortgage.
BA2 will rise from the ashes, sure, but it won’t be a clone of BA1. It will be smaller, nimbler, and there won’t be jobs for everyone in BA1. I can’t see into a crystal ball, but I would imagine that BA2 would drop some international routes, drop some European routes, maybe exit Gatwick completely, and end up a leaner meaner machine concentrating on high end business. That is the market niche where it delivers best value.
So how many pilots will they need? Don’t know, but with changing terms, a completely re-organised structure, perhaps significantly fewer than are currently on the payroll.
Sure, slots will be free at LHR and there will be a scramble to fill them, the lucky airlines then needing more drivers for the extra buses. And look, there are loads of them suddenly on the market! But if you have a choice between hiring someone from an Asian airline who has plenty of hours on type or an ex BA bloke who was so militant he broke the company, who will you go for? You’ll not be going into the market with shining reputations.
So I reckon in a post apocalyptic world some people will be employed by BA2, but by no means all. Some of you will be out on your backside and looking for new jobs. And don’t think that because you have a BA pedigree that they’ll be falling over themselves to have you. You’ll have just completed a thorough job of smashing the pedigree into tiny pieces.
I’m not saying don’t stand up and be counted. I am saying do it with caution and be careful. Be pragmatic. I don’t know the numbers we’re talking, but Flaps62 says 35% of his pension is at stake. So what if BA compromise at 20%? BA get some of what they want, you get to keep some of what they wanted. Do you go for that?
I can’t answer the question and, as I have said before, you have my sympathy. It’s a difficult question to answer and would surely leave a bad taste in the mouth. That’s where you need to be calm, level headed, unemotional. Just like a bad day at the office. Do not make the mistake of assuming you’ll be unscathed by the collapse of BA. Some of you will certainly be hit badly by the falling wreckage.
Think carefully before you go over the top.
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Trouble is if we give one inch, they'll be back next week for more. Someone has to put a stake in the ground.
You have to meet these people to believe them, they absolutely will not stop until we're paying to come to work.
You have to meet these people to believe them, they absolutely will not stop until we're paying to come to work.
Funny how the 'deficit' increases as we go on. Now at £2Bn according to the Indie.
Independent actuaries employed by the TUs are more realistic and estimate it at somewhere between £500M and £800M.
So they have enough cash to 'invest' in the business by firming up 10 Boeing options but not to do the decent thing like Lufthansa and BAe and ensure the deferred pay is available to the staff!
Independent actuaries employed by the TUs are more realistic and estimate it at somewhere between £500M and £800M.
So they have enough cash to 'invest' in the business by firming up 10 Boeing options but not to do the decent thing like Lufthansa and BAe and ensure the deferred pay is available to the staff!
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And in the meantime don't forget to stick "Be Fair BA" stickers all over report centres, aircraft and airports in the meantime.
Last time I saw people doing that they were 12 years old and all got detention.
Hardly a proffesional way to add weight to your case guys
Nice to see your union contributions are being put use as well
Last time I saw people doing that they were 12 years old and all got detention.
Hardly a proffesional way to add weight to your case guys
Nice to see your union contributions are being put use as well
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As ground staff for BA I find much of this thread interesting as naturally it effects me as well, not that the Flt deck community has ever given a toss about anyone else, anyway, or the company. BA culture in fairness to them sees many areas of work being every man and woman for themselves and little has changed despite vast sums spent on teaching new cultures in my 30 plus years. However, I have yet to see the pilot community lead any type of industrial action as they have always bottled it after getting a few concessions. If this should be your chosen course of action then good luck to you but as some have stated you would probably be back with BA2 with worse conditions? I sympathise also that one day sees your role as senior managers culture and attitude and the next day you are as militant as terminal 1 loaders.
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BA will never go completely bust. We owe too much money to Airbus, Boeing, leasing companies, BAA etc etc. Once the share price gets to a certain level and doomsday looms all the major creditors, other airlines (LH, AF, IB etc) will put there collective hands on their pockets and buy out a majority stake. WW out on his ar$e, negotiate ANY settlement and get the airline running again.
Particularly with all our 744 the leasing cos will be DESPERATE for us to keep flying them otherwise they'll have to park 'em in the desert. With 40% of the slots, nearly 10% achieved margin we will not be allowed by the money men to go bust.
BA2 will never happen as BA1 will never cease to exist!
ATB
Particularly with all our 744 the leasing cos will be DESPERATE for us to keep flying them otherwise they'll have to park 'em in the desert. With 40% of the slots, nearly 10% achieved margin we will not be allowed by the money men to go bust.
BA2 will never happen as BA1 will never cease to exist!
ATB