For MAS Pilots ONLY Pt.2
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For MAS Pilots ONLY Pt.2
Now that all the Taliban management pilots had been kicked out of their office when are they going to oust the remaining ones in the training department. Especially the hot tempered one who punches pilot on Base Checks. Also the one who design out of scale diagrams to catch pilot on their check rides.
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Oh dear me! Do you actually want to start it over again Ace? Well, it has been a hilarious read....lengthy, but quite funny to see all these ppl venting their anger at the management initially, and then at each other. Ah well! I hope when I grow old, I won't be so bitter and find something better to do with the rest of my days.
I'll check by again to poke my nose where it's not wanted and see whether they'll be back to huff and puff and blow the airline down. Such an embarrassment!! Is this what they say...washing your laundry in public or the likes of it? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Take care now Ace.
I'll check by again to poke my nose where it's not wanted and see whether they'll be back to huff and puff and blow the airline down. Such an embarrassment!! Is this what they say...washing your laundry in public or the likes of it? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Take care now Ace.
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Old Ace....CAA doesn't recognize any other license... PERIOD.Just recently did they conformed to EU requirements & allow EU states license.
Heck!They even didn't recognize Hong Kong licenses (even when they colonised them), not to mention FAA and CASA.So what's the big fuss?
I think you're not even a pilot...... just like to stir sentiments......For the uninformed (which means you Old Ace) any contracting ICAO state will acknowledge another ICAO state licenses'.It is then up to the individual state to set their own conditions prior to issuing licenses based on the strength of their respective previous licenses.
Give it up Old Ace....you've just proved yourself that you're not in the aviation field.
PILOST
[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: PILOST ]
Heck!They even didn't recognize Hong Kong licenses (even when they colonised them), not to mention FAA and CASA.So what's the big fuss?
I think you're not even a pilot...... just like to stir sentiments......For the uninformed (which means you Old Ace) any contracting ICAO state will acknowledge another ICAO state licenses'.It is then up to the individual state to set their own conditions prior to issuing licenses based on the strength of their respective previous licenses.
Give it up Old Ace....you've just proved yourself that you're not in the aviation field.
PILOST
[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: PILOST ]
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Just for info. Contracting states are ONLY required to recognise your license to the equivalent of a Private License Standard only, under the Annexes of ICAO governing license standardisation, the SARPS.
Thereafter the licensing authority can do what ever they want as far as CPL and ATPL is concerned. It becomes a discretionary issue for the local authority.
And that is why! If you want it changed, get involved with ICAO, and watch how fast changes happen. NOT!
Regards, Bob the Hawke.
Thereafter the licensing authority can do what ever they want as far as CPL and ATPL is concerned. It becomes a discretionary issue for the local authority.
And that is why! If you want it changed, get involved with ICAO, and watch how fast changes happen. NOT!
Regards, Bob the Hawke.
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Once upon a time in 1965 the CAA does recognise Malaysian ATPL as all the exam papers were being marked in UK and they were well invigilated. Even British pilots sit for their exam in Malaysia knowing full well it will be recognized in Britain.
Then in 1974-1976 along come this M***** X**** from the DCA licencing who goes around collecting RM$1000-2000 to give away the question papers before the exam.
This infuriate the CAA as they found out that some of the answer papers were either copied straight from the Avigation notes or were copied from other candidates. From 1976 CAA stopped recognising the Malaysian ATPL.
During that time there were only 200 Malaysian pilots and only 25% really passed the British ATPL. After the leak in 1975 another 50% of their number got their ATPL. The remaining 25% only pass their ATPL after 1990 when the objective exams were introduced.
Around 1985 when pilot in MAS were about 300 there was another leak under X***** of licencing where they paid from RM$5000-10,000.
So in all you can say only 50 pilots (of the original 200) really pass through their hard work and sweat. Nearly a hundred just cheated and the remaining 50 passed the easier exams in the 90's some by using hand signals.
So you can say more than 1/2 of the senior pilots had no credibility. And they are now responsible for the Operation of MAS fleet. No wonder there are so many cock-up and corruption in Flight Operation.
[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
Then in 1974-1976 along come this M***** X**** from the DCA licencing who goes around collecting RM$1000-2000 to give away the question papers before the exam.
This infuriate the CAA as they found out that some of the answer papers were either copied straight from the Avigation notes or were copied from other candidates. From 1976 CAA stopped recognising the Malaysian ATPL.
During that time there were only 200 Malaysian pilots and only 25% really passed the British ATPL. After the leak in 1975 another 50% of their number got their ATPL. The remaining 25% only pass their ATPL after 1990 when the objective exams were introduced.
Around 1985 when pilot in MAS were about 300 there was another leak under X***** of licencing where they paid from RM$5000-10,000.
So in all you can say only 50 pilots (of the original 200) really pass through their hard work and sweat. Nearly a hundred just cheated and the remaining 50 passed the easier exams in the 90's some by using hand signals.
So you can say more than 1/2 of the senior pilots had no credibility. And they are now responsible for the Operation of MAS fleet. No wonder there are so many cock-up and corruption in Flight Operation.
[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
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Those are some quite serious allegations of corruption in the post above. It may all be public domain, they may be tried and convicted, or they may all be innocent. I don't know, so have removed the names to err on the side of caution.
People, please DO NOT NAME NAMES in these forums, particularly where there are allegations of wrongdoing attached to it.
Alternatively, if you just must name names, then please provide the Towers with your name and address (to be passed on to the lawyers of the named parties at their request) an indemnity and binding agreement to pay any legal fees the bulletin board incurs because of your post. Do all of this before posting, and the owners of the site will decide whether or not the post can go ahead.
Now all of this is general advice. The specific names above may already be fully in the public domain, and if they are then I humbly apologise for wasting your time with this post, and for the edits. However, as moderators we have to take the safest route to keeping the good people who pay for your website fun on here out of a dark English courtroom.
Carry on.....
[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
People, please DO NOT NAME NAMES in these forums, particularly where there are allegations of wrongdoing attached to it.
Alternatively, if you just must name names, then please provide the Towers with your name and address (to be passed on to the lawyers of the named parties at their request) an indemnity and binding agreement to pay any legal fees the bulletin board incurs because of your post. Do all of this before posting, and the owners of the site will decide whether or not the post can go ahead.
Now all of this is general advice. The specific names above may already be fully in the public domain, and if they are then I humbly apologise for wasting your time with this post, and for the edits. However, as moderators we have to take the safest route to keeping the good people who pay for your website fun on here out of a dark English courtroom.
Carry on.....
[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
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Sick Squid, it's indeed a very serious allegation.However, I do believe that they just remain allegation.To err on the safe side is indeed wise, however the aviation community here is very small & I do believe the person mentioned must have known it by now.
Old Ace have been ranting in this forum & the previous MAPA's BB which was flooded by his spamming.He's just like the proverbial "empty vessel".To claim that more than half of the pilot community here are having a 'kopi O lesen' is very serious indeed.If he was right then MAS will have an accident every other day for having pilots of this calibre.However, their track record proved otherwise.The pilots who left for greener pastures have proved themselves too in foreign airlines....even up to the point of being appointed to management & training post.
FL600, please don't insult my intelligence or yours.FYI I hold A UK,CASA,FAA & naturally Malaysian ATPL.All earned the hard way.
Safe Flying All.
PILOST
Old Ace have been ranting in this forum & the previous MAPA's BB which was flooded by his spamming.He's just like the proverbial "empty vessel".To claim that more than half of the pilot community here are having a 'kopi O lesen' is very serious indeed.If he was right then MAS will have an accident every other day for having pilots of this calibre.However, their track record proved otherwise.The pilots who left for greener pastures have proved themselves too in foreign airlines....even up to the point of being appointed to management & training post.
FL600, please don't insult my intelligence or yours.FYI I hold A UK,CASA,FAA & naturally Malaysian ATPL.All earned the hard way.
Safe Flying All.
PILOST
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Pilost talking craps again. After getting his Malaysian ATPL why would one want to go and sit even for the British ATPL again. One ATPL (old one) is good enough torture. Anyway I’ve never heard in MAS or DCA anyone having multiple ATPL and had sat for each and every one of the papers.
The pilot with the caliber and had honestly passed the ATPL are the one who had gone to greener pasture. What about you Pilost wouldn’t you too like to earn RM$35,000-45,000 per month with 15% tax, or is your multiple license not good enough.
As for MAS it is a technically bankrupt airline 2 years ago. They should have close half of it down rather than being in a state of denial and wasting the country resources. At least SAS had the moral courage to do it recently. What do you expect with so many “kopi O” management and pilots there is not much brainpower left. All the real brain had flown away years ago.
The pilot with the caliber and had honestly passed the ATPL are the one who had gone to greener pasture. What about you Pilost wouldn’t you too like to earn RM$35,000-45,000 per month with 15% tax, or is your multiple license not good enough.
As for MAS it is a technically bankrupt airline 2 years ago. They should have close half of it down rather than being in a state of denial and wasting the country resources. At least SAS had the moral courage to do it recently. What do you expect with so many “kopi O” management and pilots there is not much brainpower left. All the real brain had flown away years ago.
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Hoi Oldman...you've succeeded time and again to stir things up. This far anyway. What is it with you, some kind of major frustration I gather. I would suggest for you to seek help. I thought Australia is the perfect retirement place for you, drink some gold by the water..blah, blah, blah , but obviously the world is not enough. Why dont you take a trip to Pat Pong and try to lighten up.
"Do anyone knows why until today the British CAA do not recognise Malaysian ATPL ?"
Wow, you're the expert, so next time, don't bother insulting our "bird brains" and wasting the time you have left in your retirement in asking the question in the first place. Just tell us...we beg for more.
FYI I too have multiple ATPLs. go figure.
Rest in **** old man.
"Do anyone knows why until today the British CAA do not recognise Malaysian ATPL ?"
Wow, you're the expert, so next time, don't bother insulting our "bird brains" and wasting the time you have left in your retirement in asking the question in the first place. Just tell us...we beg for more.
FYI I too have multiple ATPLs. go figure.
Rest in **** old man.
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There is no smoke without fire. Pilost if you think it is just allegation to cover up all your dishonest friends who got their ATPL then some basic is wrong here.
The CAA must have some serious reason for not recognising the Malaysian ATPL in 1976.
And the reason is corruption and cheating by some Malaysian pilots who are now serving MAS.
So there goes your credibility.
The CAA must have some serious reason for not recognising the Malaysian ATPL in 1976.
And the reason is corruption and cheating by some Malaysian pilots who are now serving MAS.
So there goes your credibility.
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I sat for the International Papers conducted by UK CAA at Oxford in 1995 mind you and still the Certificate says "Not valid for issuance of a UK ATPL". We were offered places to take the UK ATPL exams subject to also taking additional papers on Signals/RT and also UK Air Law. I declined for lack of time.
There's more to it than some of our alleged predecessors obtaining their ATPL in dubious fashion.
There's more to it than some of our alleged predecessors obtaining their ATPL in dubious fashion.
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As usual pilost is covering up for his many friends who have not made the grade legally and above board.Try brown nosing somewhere else will you but enough is enough cos you're flogging the wrong horse here. It's common knowledge among MAS pilots and the pilot fraternity in Malaysia that there were serious breaches in exam invigilation and monies being handed over for answers to exam questions. Why would the CAA suddenly decide not to recognise the Malaysian ATPL,if they had done so years before? After all, with the number of students taking exams in Malaysia it was quite a cash bonanza for them not to mention that all exams questions were set by the CAA and came from UK and the papers were sent back to the CAA for marking. The other gripe that the CAA had was the 3 resits and start all over rule. Well, for many years the DCA decided in their wisdom that certain pilots(those that couldn't pass 3 topics in one go and there were many of them!) could resit one exam at each seating until all were passed. This was in contrary to CAA rules but let's be honest, if that didn't happen half the guys flying today would have some other profession.
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where ever you go,there you are!
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where ever you go,there you are!
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What it mean is that after 1976 if any Malaysian want to obtain a British ATPL he must sit for the papers in UK for it to be recognised by CAA. The CAA want to ensure that there is no leaks and the exams invigilated properly to ensure the integrity of their ATPL.
In other word the Malaysian ATPL are just craps.
In other word the Malaysian ATPL are just craps.
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Hey read my earlier post. I sat for the ATPL exams in UK and still the certificate bears "not valid for issuance of UK ATPL". So there's more to it than what has been discussed here. Granted you need to be in possession of a UK CPL first in order to obtain a UK ATPL. Which means you will have to convert your licence by sitting for the UK airlaw etc.
Of course there are amongst us some fortunate enough to be trained in UK and are in possession of a UK CPL.
Anyhow..what's all the fuss about. We all possess ICAO recognised ATPL and are allowed to fly in and out and over so many territories which may or may not recognize our ATPL. Smells of protectionism if you ask me. If our ATPL's were such duds then I am sure UK CAA would want a list from Malaysian DCA with regard to those pilots with ATPL obtained before 1976 and only allow them to man aircraft flying over UK!
FYI...seven up...of course some here would claim..."your wan objective!no essay writing etc. etc." The way I see it, we will never measure up to the standards of some of these old ace's. "those days..." Can you imagine cockpit conversation starting with those 2 words? Glad I was never on the B744.
Of course there are amongst us some fortunate enough to be trained in UK and are in possession of a UK CPL.
Anyhow..what's all the fuss about. We all possess ICAO recognised ATPL and are allowed to fly in and out and over so many territories which may or may not recognize our ATPL. Smells of protectionism if you ask me. If our ATPL's were such duds then I am sure UK CAA would want a list from Malaysian DCA with regard to those pilots with ATPL obtained before 1976 and only allow them to man aircraft flying over UK!
FYI...seven up...of course some here would claim..."your wan objective!no essay writing etc. etc." The way I see it, we will never measure up to the standards of some of these old ace's. "those days..." Can you imagine cockpit conversation starting with those 2 words? Glad I was never on the B744.
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Marcellus Wallace:
You keep repeating “So there's more to it than what has been discussed here” but had not tell us what it is.
Those of us who had sat the CPL & ATPL in Malaysia before 1976 were recognized by the CAA for issue of a British ATPL provided we sit for extra papers like UK Air Law etc.
In the 70’s and 80’s there were some Malaysian pilots who wanted to convert their license to UK ATPL and was told to resit for the whole papers in UK all over again as the Malaysian ATPL was not recognized even though the exams papers and the marking came from UK when they sat for their exams in Malaysia.
So those of you here who claimed to have a UK ATPL are just full of horse****, unless you passed the ATPL in Malaysia before 1976.
Marcellus Wallace I hope that you are not one of those in the new generation who we find climbing on the transport and sitting across the aisle who do not bother to say Hi or Hello to the senior pilots sitting next to you(it's not to say we’re hardup for it). Except putting on a grumpy face with your brand new shiny 4 bar epaulet. I guess you are the lucky ones who joined in the early 90’s who had not been through the mills during the rapid expansion. Well time will catch up with you….mark my words.
Marcellus Wallace says: "those days..." Can you imagine cockpit conversation starting with those 2 words? Glad I was never on the B744”
We are more than a generation apart. In the old days what is important is communication and however reserved the old British Captains were we try to get along with him so that we can get as much knowledge and his experiences which are not written in books. So on nite-stops we take the initiative to call him for B’fast,Lunch,Dinner or whatever, a practice that is very lacking today. That communication is still valid today for good working relation and safety.
There will always be “those days” as those days when you are on a Base Check on a real aircraft the instructor will shut down an engine on you after V1 and woe betide the pilot who shut down the good engine on his drill. His reputation will go down the drains for many years to come.
Whatever it is, these old farts had flown for almost 40 years with no major accident in the Malaysian Airline. Let see whether these young Turks of the nineties can do better. Only time will tell.
[ 23 November 2001: Message edited by: OldAce999 ]
You keep repeating “So there's more to it than what has been discussed here” but had not tell us what it is.
Those of us who had sat the CPL & ATPL in Malaysia before 1976 were recognized by the CAA for issue of a British ATPL provided we sit for extra papers like UK Air Law etc.
In the 70’s and 80’s there were some Malaysian pilots who wanted to convert their license to UK ATPL and was told to resit for the whole papers in UK all over again as the Malaysian ATPL was not recognized even though the exams papers and the marking came from UK when they sat for their exams in Malaysia.
So those of you here who claimed to have a UK ATPL are just full of horse****, unless you passed the ATPL in Malaysia before 1976.
Marcellus Wallace I hope that you are not one of those in the new generation who we find climbing on the transport and sitting across the aisle who do not bother to say Hi or Hello to the senior pilots sitting next to you(it's not to say we’re hardup for it). Except putting on a grumpy face with your brand new shiny 4 bar epaulet. I guess you are the lucky ones who joined in the early 90’s who had not been through the mills during the rapid expansion. Well time will catch up with you….mark my words.
Marcellus Wallace says: "those days..." Can you imagine cockpit conversation starting with those 2 words? Glad I was never on the B744”
We are more than a generation apart. In the old days what is important is communication and however reserved the old British Captains were we try to get along with him so that we can get as much knowledge and his experiences which are not written in books. So on nite-stops we take the initiative to call him for B’fast,Lunch,Dinner or whatever, a practice that is very lacking today. That communication is still valid today for good working relation and safety.
There will always be “those days” as those days when you are on a Base Check on a real aircraft the instructor will shut down an engine on you after V1 and woe betide the pilot who shut down the good engine on his drill. His reputation will go down the drains for many years to come.
Whatever it is, these old farts had flown for almost 40 years with no major accident in the Malaysian Airline. Let see whether these young Turks of the nineties can do better. Only time will tell.
[ 23 November 2001: Message edited by: OldAce999 ]
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OldAce999...thanks for the warning. I have flown as co-pilot to so many captains, young, not so old and really old guys. Some whom I look up to with high regard and some whom I would never plan to emulate. However, never have any of them ever told me ..."hey your ATPL is crap!" The most I got was a comparison how difficult it was those days essay writing etc. So I am pretty sure I have never flown with you.
I hane never ridden a bicycle to school and I never walked bare foot to the sundry shop with a kerosene lamp. So yes ..we are from a different generation. I accept that fact. Have you? Admit it, we are all different. I know how much you would like all of us to go fly single pioneers or tiger moths during our ab-initio but they just don't have those around anymore.
The unscrupulous individuals in the 1970's have not done us a favour. But a great many of us have studied hard for our ATPL's and passed them with flying colours. The issue of UK not recognizing our licence goes beyond what happened in the 70's. Maybe they are just protecting their job market. Maybe they perceive our standards to be inferior? I don't know. But I doubt the reason you gave be the sole factor.
I hane never ridden a bicycle to school and I never walked bare foot to the sundry shop with a kerosene lamp. So yes ..we are from a different generation. I accept that fact. Have you? Admit it, we are all different. I know how much you would like all of us to go fly single pioneers or tiger moths during our ab-initio but they just don't have those around anymore.
The unscrupulous individuals in the 1970's have not done us a favour. But a great many of us have studied hard for our ATPL's and passed them with flying colours. The issue of UK not recognizing our licence goes beyond what happened in the 70's. Maybe they are just protecting their job market. Maybe they perceive our standards to be inferior? I don't know. But I doubt the reason you gave be the sole factor.