SIA CARGO
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: home
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4PW'S:
WHO DIED AND MADE YOU A FORUM POLICEMAN?
"I have certainly considered whether I should tell the Moderator of your post, and came to the inescapable conclusion to do just that.
Many of us look forward to their response, which may in time reflect the best traditions, albeit short-lived, of the PPRuNe.
I'm unwilling to contribute further to this thread unless you retract your statement, apologise and delete the offensive post.
Not a threat by the way, but it is a promise - and an opinion ."
That's the moderator's job. Not yours. I noticed in one of your posts, that you used ALL asterisks in place of a curse word. So when CJ posts his opinion of the Chief Pilot and uses slightly less asterisks, he's crossed the line? Who's line, yours? Anyway, RL is a **** and a **********. Every time I have had any business with him, starting with my interview sim evaluation he has acted the above. Happy for you that all your experiences with him have been pleasant. Some of us are just not as refined in expressing our opinions as you are. BTW, what are the official Pprune rules regarding offensive language? I see in many forums, curse words with asterisks replacing some letters.
And finally, please let the forum know your opinion what possible good could come from letting ANYONE in SIA or SIA Cargo management know how we feel about any issues, communicated via signed letter or verbally. Nothing will change. If we vote with our feet, the only change will be for the person leaving. There will always be someone there to fill that seat, and THEY know it.
PQ
WHO DIED AND MADE YOU A FORUM POLICEMAN?
"I have certainly considered whether I should tell the Moderator of your post, and came to the inescapable conclusion to do just that.
Many of us look forward to their response, which may in time reflect the best traditions, albeit short-lived, of the PPRuNe.
I'm unwilling to contribute further to this thread unless you retract your statement, apologise and delete the offensive post.
Not a threat by the way, but it is a promise - and an opinion ."
That's the moderator's job. Not yours. I noticed in one of your posts, that you used ALL asterisks in place of a curse word. So when CJ posts his opinion of the Chief Pilot and uses slightly less asterisks, he's crossed the line? Who's line, yours? Anyway, RL is a **** and a **********. Every time I have had any business with him, starting with my interview sim evaluation he has acted the above. Happy for you that all your experiences with him have been pleasant. Some of us are just not as refined in expressing our opinions as you are. BTW, what are the official Pprune rules regarding offensive language? I see in many forums, curse words with asterisks replacing some letters.
And finally, please let the forum know your opinion what possible good could come from letting ANYONE in SIA or SIA Cargo management know how we feel about any issues, communicated via signed letter or verbally. Nothing will change. If we vote with our feet, the only change will be for the person leaving. There will always be someone there to fill that seat, and THEY know it.
PQ
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pcv67
RE PW'S comments. I could not agree more with you about those pompous remarks made by PW but as he said he was unwilling to contribute to the thread further unless CJ retracted his remarks I rather hoped that it would be the last we all heard from him!!!
As you rightly say there is always someone out there who thinks joining SIA or Cargo is a dream come true.
RE PW'S comments. I could not agree more with you about those pompous remarks made by PW but as he said he was unwilling to contribute to the thread further unless CJ retracted his remarks I rather hoped that it would be the last we all heard from him!!!
As you rightly say there is always someone out there who thinks joining SIA or Cargo is a dream come true.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
on the outside lookin' in
This thread certainly has it's characters. I have enjoyed reading the majority of this one, as I'm on the outside trying to figure out if SIA Cargo is right for me. I am certainly up for a change and forward step in my career. I see a lot of talk which smacks a lot of places I've worked. I'm thinking that this is not an uncommon theme these days; "the brass isn't very interested in Pilot's views and or suggestions"... "cutbacks are a way of life and things won't change for the better because there's a steady stream of folks ready to take their number". Is this even avoidable anymore? I'd go as far to say that a lot of other industries are going the same way... seems to me it's a sign of the times "it's all about the mighty dollar and to heck with what the employees need to endure." I'm sure the bean counters have done the math and figure it's best to do things the way they are doing them. I'm not saying I like it or agree with it, but is it even avoidable these days?
Does anyone know of any Airlines today that are not this way?? Finger pointing and name calling aside, it is a genuine question. I am willing to move anywhere in the world... (just about) to find a company to stay with, hopefully for the rest of my career. I'm thinking there's folks out there thinking... "well, duhhh" but the question stands.
With remaining on topic with SIA Cargo... Is it true that if based in Singapore that you can't leave on days off? What are days off, are they SDO's, GDO's, or something else?
Can you have any impact on your schedule, like any form of bidding?
What is the upgrade timeframe like?
Just to end this off and perhaps stir the pot a little... apart from this being a SIA Cargo post, why has there not been one mention of CX, even as a comparison?
Does anyone know of any Airlines today that are not this way?? Finger pointing and name calling aside, it is a genuine question. I am willing to move anywhere in the world... (just about) to find a company to stay with, hopefully for the rest of my career. I'm thinking there's folks out there thinking... "well, duhhh" but the question stands.
With remaining on topic with SIA Cargo... Is it true that if based in Singapore that you can't leave on days off? What are days off, are they SDO's, GDO's, or something else?
Can you have any impact on your schedule, like any form of bidding?
What is the upgrade timeframe like?
Just to end this off and perhaps stir the pot a little... apart from this being a SIA Cargo post, why has there not been one mention of CX, even as a comparison?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: singapore
Age: 63
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Upgrading In Sia Cargo
hey you "the bug"
are you crazy, if you think you can get a upgrading forget it. READ MY KEYS -YOU WILL NEVER BE UPGRADED TO COMMAND POSITION.
there were a few too many that joined on this presumption and they are still FO kicking their heals, they even had to take local term contract(no housing+child educational allowances)
as for OFF DAYS we could were able to leave singapore after reporting to the secretary/rostering officer BUT thats all changed.
as some guys who had left singapore could not get back in time for their rostered flight (some SAS blokes) they have now stopped that all together.
IT COULD BE A GREAT PLACE TO WORK BUT I AM AFRAID THAT WE ARE STILL GETTING A BEATING AT THE EXPENSE OF THE MAINLINE RATS.
FURTHERMORE OUR MANAGEMENT IS VERY WEAK AS THEY PLAY SECOND FIDDLE TO THE MAINLINE OPERATION. WE OUR THE SCUMS OR OUT CAST.
we cannot pax on cargo flights/cannot utilise our annual ticket to any othe rdestination other than the designated homebase/no travel allowance/no allowance during paxing(which you will do a lot around 40 per month) and thats aabout it.
the country is loosing it;s glamour safe but sterile but ideal to educate/chillout for a few years.
BUT DO CONDITION YOUR MIND PRIOR TO JOINING.
JUST WAIT TILL JULY WE SHOULD SEE SOME TURN AROUND HOPEFULLY BUT AS I SAID "WAIT AND SEE"
are you crazy, if you think you can get a upgrading forget it. READ MY KEYS -YOU WILL NEVER BE UPGRADED TO COMMAND POSITION.
there were a few too many that joined on this presumption and they are still FO kicking their heals, they even had to take local term contract(no housing+child educational allowances)
as for OFF DAYS we could were able to leave singapore after reporting to the secretary/rostering officer BUT thats all changed.
as some guys who had left singapore could not get back in time for their rostered flight (some SAS blokes) they have now stopped that all together.
IT COULD BE A GREAT PLACE TO WORK BUT I AM AFRAID THAT WE ARE STILL GETTING A BEATING AT THE EXPENSE OF THE MAINLINE RATS.
FURTHERMORE OUR MANAGEMENT IS VERY WEAK AS THEY PLAY SECOND FIDDLE TO THE MAINLINE OPERATION. WE OUR THE SCUMS OR OUT CAST.
we cannot pax on cargo flights/cannot utilise our annual ticket to any othe rdestination other than the designated homebase/no travel allowance/no allowance during paxing(which you will do a lot around 40 per month) and thats aabout it.
the country is loosing it;s glamour safe but sterile but ideal to educate/chillout for a few years.
BUT DO CONDITION YOUR MIND PRIOR TO JOINING.
JUST WAIT TILL JULY WE SHOULD SEE SOME TURN AROUND HOPEFULLY BUT AS I SAID "WAIT AND SEE"
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
Posts: 957
Received 116 Likes
on
57 Posts
Leaving Sin on OFF days
My understanding CJ is that the flights that were missed involved crew struggling to get back to AMS or BRU and that we are now looking at maybe rostering standby days down route to keep guys at out stations rather than allow them a quick visit home.
There is no restriction that I know of on leaving SIN on an OFF day and I have to say that management have been very accommodating with my roster; allowing me to leave SIN 12 days before my AALV starts.
I stand to be corrected if you know different.
There is no restriction that I know of on leaving SIN on an OFF day and I have to say that management have been very accommodating with my roster; allowing me to leave SIN 12 days before my AALV starts.
I stand to be corrected if you know different.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: out there somewhere...
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not quite right
Thanks BB, the info that the esteemed CJ has posted here is unfortuneately incorrect! He is an unhappy fellow, and I would ask the "Bug" seriously discount the previous postings. I am at a loss as to what to say but would caution any potential new joiners to read carefully any posts regarding SIA Cargo. It is easy to sit in the stands and jeer any team, good or bad, thats a basic right, but when someone asks for clear and honest information, and you have nothing good to say, then don't say anything at all, but above all be HONEST! (if you do feel the need to post) CG, unhappy as you are, did you yourself ask anyone for the goods at SIA Cargo before you joined? Or do you only have yourself to blame. The Bug asked a clear and simple question and please save the editorialising for the bar, or wherever you go to unwind. Do him and us a favour and try to leave out the victriol and do your best to be fair...maybe the smartest thing you could do for yourself. LC out!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: singapore
Age: 63
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Out Of Base
BB you are correct too, whilst on a COP dashing off home will not be permitted.
however when you are in SIN you are not permitted to leave base during the ATDO/OFF.this is becasue the guys that left base during these allocated days could not report for rostered flight.
in your particular case you were permitted as you had annual leave rostered. hence it would not affect in any case.
REMEMBER TO LEAVE SIN YOU HAD TO OBTAIN PERMISSION FROM THE ROSTERING OFFICER OR A CP ON DUTY OR THE OFFICE SECRETARY.
this is for your information.
i too stand to be corrected.
however when you are in SIN you are not permitted to leave base during the ATDO/OFF.this is becasue the guys that left base during these allocated days could not report for rostered flight.
in your particular case you were permitted as you had annual leave rostered. hence it would not affect in any case.
REMEMBER TO LEAVE SIN YOU HAD TO OBTAIN PERMISSION FROM THE ROSTERING OFFICER OR A CP ON DUTY OR THE OFFICE SECRETARY.
this is for your information.
i too stand to be corrected.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: home
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
REGARDING REQUESTING PERMISSION TO LEAVE SIN ON DAYS OFF
I also heard that before I joined and perhaps it is true. Reading my contract is like reading the aircraft manual: it puts me to sleep. All I know is, when my roster says "OFF" or "ATDO", I do and go where I want and I do not ask anyone for permission. I have never been called on those days by the company. If you leave SIN on those days, just don't answer the phone and make sure you get your ass back in time for your next trip. Simple
I also heard that before I joined and perhaps it is true. Reading my contract is like reading the aircraft manual: it puts me to sleep. All I know is, when my roster says "OFF" or "ATDO", I do and go where I want and I do not ask anyone for permission. I have never been called on those days by the company. If you leave SIN on those days, just don't answer the phone and make sure you get your ass back in time for your next trip. Simple
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So exactly how much CASH USD do you have to deposit in the bank when you join the place??? And is there an additional amount on top of the cash as a training bond..and if you fail training do you lose the CASH??? And would anybody posting here in hindsight do it all over again???
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
Posts: 957
Received 116 Likes
on
57 Posts
Bank Guarantee = Sin $56k = US $37k held by SIA for 5 years.
Total Bond = Sin $142k = US $ 95k decreases monthly over 5 years.
Yes
Maybe, depends very much on what the next 6 months have in store.
Total Bond = Sin $142k = US $ 95k decreases monthly over 5 years.
Yes
Maybe, depends very much on what the next 6 months have in store.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: out there somewhere...
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only the 56K S$ is in cash...the rest is on paper, and if you keep your nose clean, there won't be any failures here IB...you won't have any hiccups! If you put the 56K in the right place, it's worth more at the end, think of it as a way to keep it out of anyone's elses mits for a while. Up to you if you want to leave cause the job sucks, there ARE worse places to work! You thinkin' of leaving the dark side for the island of light?
Gimme a bell...
LC
Gimme a bell...LC
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
Posts: 957
Received 116 Likes
on
57 Posts
Have to agree with LC. There are worse places to work.
We thought the bonding was far too high for far too long a period but we would have accepted it without complaint if the package had been as advertised. So far (20 months and counting) it hasn't.
It's not the fault of the guys we report directly to but there has been very little by way of explanation or apology from the company and nothing at all in the way of financial compensation. Consequently, the perception of the company attitude by many is "We don't care." I don't necessarily subscribe to that viewpoint but I can understand why some do.
The best interest return on your $56k bank guarantee is about 4% pa and there is a fairly stiff charge for administering the guarantee. Factor in inflation and tax (if applicable) and I will be surprised if you come out ahead after 5 years. The money could have been invested offshore at >6.5% tax free and available on demand.
Some very decent guys continue to do their level best to rectify rostering matters but their efforts are for nothing if the guys and girls that market our product can't generate new business and hang on to existing business for us.
I also understand that there are some engineering issues which need addressing so as to improve aircraft availability - and thats not a pop at the engineers. They have their own issues to deal with.
We have integrated ourselves quite nicely into Singapore and do not really wish to leave so we are inclined to be patient. But we do fully understand the frustrations of those who are beginning to spit the dummy.
It's not often I agree with CJ but I do think that July/August could be interesting - hopefully for the right reasons!
edited to remove financial advertising!
We thought the bonding was far too high for far too long a period but we would have accepted it without complaint if the package had been as advertised. So far (20 months and counting) it hasn't.
It's not the fault of the guys we report directly to but there has been very little by way of explanation or apology from the company and nothing at all in the way of financial compensation. Consequently, the perception of the company attitude by many is "We don't care." I don't necessarily subscribe to that viewpoint but I can understand why some do.
The best interest return on your $56k bank guarantee is about 4% pa and there is a fairly stiff charge for administering the guarantee. Factor in inflation and tax (if applicable) and I will be surprised if you come out ahead after 5 years. The money could have been invested offshore at >6.5% tax free and available on demand.
Some very decent guys continue to do their level best to rectify rostering matters but their efforts are for nothing if the guys and girls that market our product can't generate new business and hang on to existing business for us.
I also understand that there are some engineering issues which need addressing so as to improve aircraft availability - and thats not a pop at the engineers. They have their own issues to deal with.
We have integrated ourselves quite nicely into Singapore and do not really wish to leave so we are inclined to be patient. But we do fully understand the frustrations of those who are beginning to spit the dummy.
It's not often I agree with CJ but I do think that July/August could be interesting - hopefully for the right reasons!
edited to remove financial advertising!
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 16th Apr 2007 at 05:47.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,091
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BABA has hit the nail on the head when he says:
"Some very decent guys continue to do their level best to rectify rostering matters but their efforts are for nothing if the guys and girls that market our product can't generate new business and hang on to existing business for us."
Cargo has always been like this, next time you are in Anchorage ask some of the other guys, ANC, Cargolux and so forth, roster disruption is the 'norm' as it is dependent on loads. I believe SIA's big mistake was to separate the Cargo from the Pax so early before they had a recognisable cargo pattern to work with and from which they could forecast a realistic monthly package. Hopefully things will improve for the cargo lads in July/August, I certainly hope so.
CARGO JOCK You don't enhance your case by being deliberately offensive.
"Some very decent guys continue to do their level best to rectify rostering matters but their efforts are for nothing if the guys and girls that market our product can't generate new business and hang on to existing business for us."
Cargo has always been like this, next time you are in Anchorage ask some of the other guys, ANC, Cargolux and so forth, roster disruption is the 'norm' as it is dependent on loads. I believe SIA's big mistake was to separate the Cargo from the Pax so early before they had a recognisable cargo pattern to work with and from which they could forecast a realistic monthly package. Hopefully things will improve for the cargo lads in July/August, I certainly hope so.
CARGO JOCK You don't enhance your case by being deliberately offensive.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
Posts: 957
Received 116 Likes
on
57 Posts
I concur wholeheartedly with both of the previous posts.
To return the compliment and quote parabellum:
"I believe SIA's big mistake was to separate the Cargo from the Pax so early before they had a recognisable cargo pattern to work with and from which they could forecast a realistic monthly package."
Agreed. But SIA did state a monthly expected package. They advertised it and many people were enticed into signing on the dotted line on the "expect $7000 pcm in allowances" advertising. My average monthly allowances for 2007 are a shade over $4000 and my legitimate expectations have therefore not been satisfied. There has been a deafening silence from the company over this, and that slience, even more than the loss of advertised benefits, is what I find so disheartening and demoralising.
Wrt roster disruption - fine, I have no problem with disruption. What I do object to is consistently achieving 30 hours a month less than I was originally rostered for. The ad said expect $7k pcm in allowances so I expect it. Whats wrong with that?
An employer that values its employees and realises the effect that bad morale can have on the bottom line would have acted differently. Or maybe they just haven't got around to doing something about it yet. If so, may I suggest:
1. Guaranteed minimum monthly allowance of $6k and/or;
2. Reduction in term and amount of bond equal to %age that allowances have fallen short of the company advertised expectation.
Dreaming? Yes I know!
To return the compliment and quote parabellum:
"I believe SIA's big mistake was to separate the Cargo from the Pax so early before they had a recognisable cargo pattern to work with and from which they could forecast a realistic monthly package."
Agreed. But SIA did state a monthly expected package. They advertised it and many people were enticed into signing on the dotted line on the "expect $7000 pcm in allowances" advertising. My average monthly allowances for 2007 are a shade over $4000 and my legitimate expectations have therefore not been satisfied. There has been a deafening silence from the company over this, and that slience, even more than the loss of advertised benefits, is what I find so disheartening and demoralising.
Wrt roster disruption - fine, I have no problem with disruption. What I do object to is consistently achieving 30 hours a month less than I was originally rostered for. The ad said expect $7k pcm in allowances so I expect it. Whats wrong with that?
An employer that values its employees and realises the effect that bad morale can have on the bottom line would have acted differently. Or maybe they just haven't got around to doing something about it yet. If so, may I suggest:
1. Guaranteed minimum monthly allowance of $6k and/or;
2. Reduction in term and amount of bond equal to %age that allowances have fallen short of the company advertised expectation.
Dreaming? Yes I know!
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 16th Apr 2007 at 16:52.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: singapore
Age: 63
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wswd-w Hat S Hall W E D O?
guys and gals,
there are a few good guys trying just to do a few changes but it is taking too long.
house rents are zooming
flying is diving
paxing is level
flight cancellations are increasing
standbys are just piling
WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?
got it wait till july, just heard that the bonus is around 4.89 months and payed in two blocks to ensure the intended blokes that leave will not get the icing on the cake.
WSWD?
PS:PARABALLUM my teeth are white and they are grining at you!!!!!!!!!
there are a few good guys trying just to do a few changes but it is taking too long.
house rents are zooming
flying is diving
paxing is level
flight cancellations are increasing
standbys are just piling
WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?
got it wait till july, just heard that the bonus is around 4.89 months and payed in two blocks to ensure the intended blokes that leave will not get the icing on the cake.
WSWD?
PS:PARABALLUM my teeth are white and they are grining at you!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: out there somewhere...
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WSWD?... I don't see any "W" here...how about WS "Y" D? All we have heard so far is your complaining...are you prepared to jump in and lend a hand? Lots of room for a volunteer willing to take a bit of his time to see what might be done to settle some of the so called lousy T&C's that seem to keep you awake...whattaya say? And where did you hear about the bonus scheme? Maybe someone who is closer to the truth (!) can substantiate that one?
Cheers
LC
Cheers
LC
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,091
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The bonus was always split, some in July and some in December, thirteenth month in January, if applicable.
Last edited by parabellum; 18th Apr 2007 at 01:22. Reason: Removal of some rude stuff!