SIA CARGO
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
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Are we here for the money? Certainly! Are we here just for the money? No way! We came for the adventure, the 744 rating and our retirement planning.
Most of us who joined from other SE Asian carriers were fully aware of the "price of everything - value of nothing" attitude that pervades some of the indigenous corporate culture and I think we just have to learn to live with it.
Thanks to the efforts of the STG, DCP and a few other individuals, I feel that we are slowly but surely moving in the right direction. The (modest) annual payrise has just been awarded, housing allowance is set to increase and for those of us that were complaining about lack of flying - take a look at the May rosters. I am well into overtime, as are most of the other guys I have spoken to.
I also understand that SIA Cargo now has, or is shortly about to have, it's own ALPA representation which can only be a good thing.
Now, if we can get annual leave, staff travel and compassionate leave improved we will have precious little to moan about - won't we?
Most of us who joined from other SE Asian carriers were fully aware of the "price of everything - value of nothing" attitude that pervades some of the indigenous corporate culture and I think we just have to learn to live with it.
Thanks to the efforts of the STG, DCP and a few other individuals, I feel that we are slowly but surely moving in the right direction. The (modest) annual payrise has just been awarded, housing allowance is set to increase and for those of us that were complaining about lack of flying - take a look at the May rosters. I am well into overtime, as are most of the other guys I have spoken to.
I also understand that SIA Cargo now has, or is shortly about to have, it's own ALPA representation which can only be a good thing.
Now, if we can get annual leave, staff travel and compassionate leave improved we will have precious little to moan about - won't we?
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Would like to join SIA cargo one day. Originally from SE Asia but flying in North America. What are the realistic requirements vs. advertised requirements?
Great thread by the way. Very informative.
Great thread by the way. Very informative.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Requirements are "realistically" exactly as advertised to be seriously considered for interview. Thereafter, it's in your own hands.
Top tip #1. Make sure all of your paperwork is flawless - accurate, complete and neatly presented - otherwise you will have had a wasted journey and not even make it to the interview.
A few weeks ago I would have cautioned you not to believe the advertised "expected monthly allowances" figures, but things seem to be moving in the right direction and the jury is now out on that particular issue.
The comments in this thread are a fairly accurate representation of whats happening in the company - it suits some people but not others. Worth coming for a look imho though.
Top tip #1. Make sure all of your paperwork is flawless - accurate, complete and neatly presented - otherwise you will have had a wasted journey and not even make it to the interview.
A few weeks ago I would have cautioned you not to believe the advertised "expected monthly allowances" figures, but things seem to be moving in the right direction and the jury is now out on that particular issue.
The comments in this thread are a fairly accurate representation of whats happening in the company - it suits some people but not others. Worth coming for a look imho though.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: singapore
Age: 63
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Sq Cargo Monthly Income
hey bananasbananas,
just because you have a good roster it does not mean the trend has changed. i too have got a good roster with 68 hours for the month up from the 30's.
it looks positive but lets see.i still met lads that are flying 25-35 hours, and also a guys that 70 hours but later the roster changed to 50's due flight cancelations etc.
FO roster is just crazy the expat lads hardly fly most of the flying is given to the mainline FO.even the local cargo FO are complaining.
overall the situation has improved but wait till july/august this is when we couls judge the operation. as rumour has it that many are planning to move after collecting the bonus.
time will tell................Oh yes we expats are here for an adventure.
just because you have a good roster it does not mean the trend has changed. i too have got a good roster with 68 hours for the month up from the 30's.
it looks positive but lets see.i still met lads that are flying 25-35 hours, and also a guys that 70 hours but later the roster changed to 50's due flight cancelations etc.
FO roster is just crazy the expat lads hardly fly most of the flying is given to the mainline FO.even the local cargo FO are complaining.
overall the situation has improved but wait till july/august this is when we couls judge the operation. as rumour has it that many are planning to move after collecting the bonus.
time will tell................Oh yes we expats are here for an adventure.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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CJ,
"FO roster is just crazy the expat lads hardly fly most of the flying is given to the mainline FO.even the local cargo FO are complaining."
Its easy to listen to what you want to hear (talk is cheap), or maybe you've not seen the summer COP for cargo. My last count, mainline (rats, according to you) gets only 15% of cargo COPs.
"Oh yes we expats are here for an adventure" ... then don't have to worry whether you are getting 4 months or 1 months bonus
cheers
"FO roster is just crazy the expat lads hardly fly most of the flying is given to the mainline FO.even the local cargo FO are complaining."
Its easy to listen to what you want to hear (talk is cheap), or maybe you've not seen the summer COP for cargo. My last count, mainline (rats, according to you) gets only 15% of cargo COPs.
"Oh yes we expats are here for an adventure" ... then don't have to worry whether you are getting 4 months or 1 months bonus
cheers
Join Date: Mar 2006
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85% Av Flying Hrs For Cargo
Hey guys,
our DCP announced the fact that cargo lads will get 85% of the flights.well he was correct but he did not mention the cancellations that were to follow.
the mainline rats are given confirmed patterns and many of our lads have had their rosters cut short by days of empty promises.so their 15% has been complete.
Hey a little bird whispers that some of these flights for the cago lads were never there in the first place so all of it was a charade..........
how can the cargo marketing justfy such cancellations.
well here we go back to the 30 hour months....
keep smiling
our DCP announced the fact that cargo lads will get 85% of the flights.well he was correct but he did not mention the cancellations that were to follow.
the mainline rats are given confirmed patterns and many of our lads have had their rosters cut short by days of empty promises.so their 15% has been complete.
Hey a little bird whispers that some of these flights for the cago lads were never there in the first place so all of it was a charade..........
how can the cargo marketing justfy such cancellations.
well here we go back to the 30 hour months....
keep smiling
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
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CARGOJOCK - I was ten years on the -400 fleet and all before SIA Cargo came into being. Cargo COPs being cancelled is nothing new. Scheduled pax flights will operate with only a very small load, it is a requirement but it is not the same with freight that can be delayed a day, re-routed etc.
We used to get some fantastic COPs with the freighters only to see them either cancelled or curtailed. Arrive in ANC with a COP that takes you to LAX, ORD, JFK, AMS, DXB and home to SIN only to be met by ground staff at ANC with a telex saying that we take min rest and operate back to SIN, via TPE the very next day and that happened more than once.
Freighter COPs were always treated with up most caution as they could evaporate at the drop of a hat - it is the very nature of freight operations.
We used to get some fantastic COPs with the freighters only to see them either cancelled or curtailed. Arrive in ANC with a COP that takes you to LAX, ORD, JFK, AMS, DXB and home to SIN only to be met by ground staff at ANC with a telex saying that we take min rest and operate back to SIN, via TPE the very next day and that happened more than once.
Freighter COPs were always treated with up most caution as they could evaporate at the drop of a hat - it is the very nature of freight operations.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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You have no idea about much do you? How about this? The company operates an empty flight just to keep you happy! If the load is small enough to put on a 777 or under belly load on a mainline route, it gets done, and the 74F flight is retasked or the flight is cancelled. Think!!! If you think that the flights you were awarded on your COP should operate on small loads just to keep you happy, then you need to go back to maths class...so tell us, what would you rather get? Regular work and a nice profit share or lose your job because the company makes no profit because you insist on flying empty jets? Cancelling flights due to low yields or end of contracts is common in the cargo world! Do you honestly think that someone would take the time to "make up" fake COPs to fool us? Reaching pretty far I think! Gettin really tired of trying to explain Airline 101 to you...if you ain't getting any job satisfaction...what's your next move? A lot of serious and hard work has gone into improving your working conditions by some really patient colleagues and you can't seem to find anything good in that...?
Last edited by Left Coaster; 1st Apr 2007 at 12:40. Reason: more to add!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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I agree with your sentiments LC but CJ does raise (I think) one valid point.
The job was sold to us based on an advertised expectation of $7000 pcm ppa - now we are told its our fault we are not getting it for believing the advertising in the first place! Sorry - no way. I have just lost serious hours for the fourth consecutive month due to delay and disruption - fair enough - but I still expect my $7k pcm as was advertised.
The terms and conditions say that the company expects us to give at least 2 hours discretion. The words "sauce", "goose" and "gander" spring to mind - along with a few more that I wouldn't get away with posting here!
I feel that I have been mislead badly and that the company has misrepresented the package.
There is a legal precedent here and its about to be used if the company dont start honouring their own advertising - and real quick.
I have been patient for long enough. The guys on the STG have done a good job with the COPs but its all for nothing if you never get to fly your rostered COP - and I don't!
The job was sold to us based on an advertised expectation of $7000 pcm ppa - now we are told its our fault we are not getting it for believing the advertising in the first place! Sorry - no way. I have just lost serious hours for the fourth consecutive month due to delay and disruption - fair enough - but I still expect my $7k pcm as was advertised.
The terms and conditions say that the company expects us to give at least 2 hours discretion. The words "sauce", "goose" and "gander" spring to mind - along with a few more that I wouldn't get away with posting here!
I feel that I have been mislead badly and that the company has misrepresented the package.
There is a legal precedent here and its about to be used if the company dont start honouring their own advertising - and real quick.
I have been patient for long enough. The guys on the STG have done a good job with the COPs but its all for nothing if you never get to fly your rostered COP - and I don't!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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legal precedent
SIA has never been reputed to be a "good" employer, but it will always try to be fair to its employee within its means. Don't expect SIA to bend backwards just to make you happy or to meet your "expectation". It operates on the same principle as the Singapore government, "no one owes you a living", when push comes to shove, Chairman of Temasek is even willing to close down the airline and start a new one.
Being a mainline "rat", I would really be happy to see some of you sue SQ Cargo for mis-representation, or better still, resign (if you are that misearable in SQ Cargo).
Being a mainline "rat", I would really be happy to see some of you sue SQ Cargo for mis-representation, or better still, resign (if you are that misearable in SQ Cargo).
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Expectation
The expectation was advertised by SIA Cargo - not imagined by us. We therefore expect SIA Cargo to honour its word.
First let me say that I have no desire to get involved in a mainline v cargo argument. As far as I am concerned it would be counter productive and we are all on the same side anyway - aren't we?
Second; If a company advertises that an employee can expect a certain level of remuneration then delivers less than 50% of that remuneration it is guilty, amongst other things, of misrepresentation and would have a hard time defending itself. Especially so since the company has tacitly admitted its misrepresentation by reducing the "expected allowances" figure after we had all signed our bonds.
Third; It would be easy to resign if we weren't bonded wouldn't it? It may be necessary to take legal action in order to resign in a manner that results in a reduction or even write off of the bond. Some people are seriously considering that course of action. I have not reached that stage yet but it's getting close.
No argument with mainline, and the "rat" monica is deserving of an apology imho but will leave that to CJ and his conscience.
First let me say that I have no desire to get involved in a mainline v cargo argument. As far as I am concerned it would be counter productive and we are all on the same side anyway - aren't we?
Second; If a company advertises that an employee can expect a certain level of remuneration then delivers less than 50% of that remuneration it is guilty, amongst other things, of misrepresentation and would have a hard time defending itself. Especially so since the company has tacitly admitted its misrepresentation by reducing the "expected allowances" figure after we had all signed our bonds.
Third; It would be easy to resign if we weren't bonded wouldn't it? It may be necessary to take legal action in order to resign in a manner that results in a reduction or even write off of the bond. Some people are seriously considering that course of action. I have not reached that stage yet but it's getting close.
No argument with mainline, and the "rat" monica is deserving of an apology imho but will leave that to CJ and his conscience.
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 2nd Apr 2007 at 08:07.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Sq Cargo
as one implied i am well aware of airline operations and economics, as i have been long in this business.
this has everything to do with what was advertised. SQ reputaion in man management is well understood with the present case in courts with ALPAS, over the pay structure for the A380 vs B747.which nothing but a show of vindication.
we cargo lads are quite happy to fly our patterns just as long as we get them. SQ CARGO misled many of us as we had legitimate expectations for purposes of renumeration with regard to the s$7000 per month.
the schedule is month to month which is a concerning fact. as implied in my earlier msg many cargo lads have had there rosters cut and chopped.
also NO MORE LEAVING BASE during off days that will shoot a few bold and beautiful aussie lads.
taking SQ to courts will not be in singapore but thru IFALPA in international courts will be a different ball game. yes TAMESERK can close the company by all means go ahead "make my day". at least we will rid of our bonds.for you to startup you will have to pay higher or get mainline rats that do not have the balls to venture overseas to fly them for a dime, i refer to them as the chopstick gang.
as for a battle with the mainline i am not interested just having the ability to share my thoughts with you all is just good, i will hang in till the right time.
BONUS MONTH is supposed to be interesting well shall wait and see..........
this has everything to do with what was advertised. SQ reputaion in man management is well understood with the present case in courts with ALPAS, over the pay structure for the A380 vs B747.which nothing but a show of vindication.
we cargo lads are quite happy to fly our patterns just as long as we get them. SQ CARGO misled many of us as we had legitimate expectations for purposes of renumeration with regard to the s$7000 per month.
the schedule is month to month which is a concerning fact. as implied in my earlier msg many cargo lads have had there rosters cut and chopped.
also NO MORE LEAVING BASE during off days that will shoot a few bold and beautiful aussie lads.
taking SQ to courts will not be in singapore but thru IFALPA in international courts will be a different ball game. yes TAMESERK can close the company by all means go ahead "make my day". at least we will rid of our bonds.for you to startup you will have to pay higher or get mainline rats that do not have the balls to venture overseas to fly them for a dime, i refer to them as the chopstick gang.
as for a battle with the mainline i am not interested just having the ability to share my thoughts with you all is just good, i will hang in till the right time.
BONUS MONTH is supposed to be interesting well shall wait and see..........
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
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6 seats on the upper deck. Wives not allowed.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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No, not at the moment. Possibly in time but I wouldn't hold your breath!
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that's unreal, so what are those seats there for?? Imagine how much happier the pilots would be if management allowed a simple thing like letting Pilots commute around the network for free!
Its probably got something to do with insurance policies. For me, that makes the job quite unappealing.
Its probably got something to do with insurance policies. For me, that makes the job quite unappealing.