R/T status in KL FIR
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simulator Visit for ATClers
Hi Aviators...I would like to bring along some young blood (New Radar ATClers) to visit a flight simulator whereby one can be shown Holding procedures/weather deviations/turbulence/speed controls/Top of Descent procedures etc. What we really would like our ATClers to see is the workload during bad weather outside and inside Lumpur TMA. Whom can I contact? I realize that this is a tough request but a visit and a briefing will be definitely a win-win for both sides. Hope to be linked to the correct person.
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Helllo there,
Well it could be arranged, no probs really, but it would have to be only 1 person at a time, as there's limited seating space in the sim when its flying. Will call you soon.
Well it could be arranged, no probs really, but it would have to be only 1 person at a time, as there's limited seating space in the sim when its flying. Will call you soon.
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flightleader.The GS is a very useful way to bring us in when required or desired. Seen this at "all longitudes".
And you're right though deck11, he is an ace,
however no yoda insights required to fly gs. Its just another way of metering movement. I refer to and use GS everyday.Curious though......about the throttle movement thingy. Which aircraft and why?
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would really appreciate it very much if the guys in charge of ATIS in ATC KUL can update the ATIS on time..updating of the ATIS has always been late by at least 10 minutes..sometimes even 15 minutes..e.g I can get the 0730Z wx only at 0745Z..it defeats the name of the timing itself,might as well put it as 0745Z..This doesn't happen at other International Airports..hope that whoever is concerned can look into this matter seriously..Quite a few pilots that i've flown with are already complaining about the same thing..
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KLIA ATIS Updates
Current procedures....MET Dept at KLIA sends METAR to Tower within a period of 5-6mins. Only then KLIA Tower updates wx data and by the time it hits the air, 10mins is gone. How do they do it overseas? Any better suggestions?
Hey guys, great to see this thread, even if I have come in here over 1 year late.
Can I add my 2 cents worth?
I work for Cx on the 777 and come to KLIA and PEN fairly often.
-Can ground stop using those damn taxi route codes and just tell us where to taxi please. Going heads down after landing to read the Jepp book is not a good idea, even if we have a pretty good idea of what to expect. We don't always get told our gate by Cx before we land. ( although 9 times out of 10 it's C37 )
-Stop telling me to hold short of taxyway B when I'm only 20 feet from it!!
The other day a controller said "hold short of present position"
LOL
-A digital atis would be nice. ( i think you've covered this before )
I totally agree with all other posts about the KL FIR.
Keep up the good work.
cheers
Can I add my 2 cents worth?
I work for Cx on the 777 and come to KLIA and PEN fairly often.
-Can ground stop using those damn taxi route codes and just tell us where to taxi please. Going heads down after landing to read the Jepp book is not a good idea, even if we have a pretty good idea of what to expect. We don't always get told our gate by Cx before we land. ( although 9 times out of 10 it's C37 )
-Stop telling me to hold short of taxyway B when I'm only 20 feet from it!!
The other day a controller said "hold short of present position"
LOL-A digital atis would be nice. ( i think you've covered this before )
I totally agree with all other posts about the KL FIR.
Keep up the good work.
cheers
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I totally agree with ACMS. Im a regular out of KLIA and till today i still cant get the dam standard taxi routings right. I can see the prob's you guys have to deal with. As for the hold short, i think most controllers are aware that we rather be told earlier, that way we can regulate our speed while changing over to the other guy and hopefully get onwards clearence before the plane comes to a stop. I believe that there are a few trainees there, but they should be taught to be more pro active with the times rather than just being very procedural. And it will help if they pop their heads up and over to see whats actually happenin outside before saying anything.
But over all there has been loads of improvements around.
But over all there has been loads of improvements around.
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Veloo
I am working with some folk at MAHB (have been for nearly 2 years now) and visiting KL again shortly. On my initial visit, I was able to gain a soft copy of the MATS for KLIA to aid my project with MAHB. I am wanting to know where I can get an updated soft copy so I can refer to it when I visit again at the end of March. A search of all the local web sites come up short. Has it been modified/updated much over the past 18 months?
Dave The Snail
I am working with some folk at MAHB (have been for nearly 2 years now) and visiting KL again shortly. On my initial visit, I was able to gain a soft copy of the MATS for KLIA to aid my project with MAHB. I am wanting to know where I can get an updated soft copy so I can refer to it when I visit again at the end of March. A search of all the local web sites come up short. Has it been modified/updated much over the past 18 months?
Dave The Snail
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veloo maniam,frankly i do not know how do they do it overseas..but if they can do it,why not KUL? 
there should be lots of room for improvement in setting up the ATIS on time...or the very least..within 5 minutes of the time intended..
there should be lots of room for improvement in setting up the ATIS on time...or the very least..within 5 minutes of the time intended..
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Current procedures....MET Dept at KLIA sends METAR to Tower within a period of 5-6mins. Only then KLIA Tower updates wx data and by the time it hits the air, 10mins is gone.
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1. Request Met office to submit the latest weather 10 mins before.
2. Any budget for DATIS under RMK-9 at all ???
(Maybe you guys need to invite 'KJ' to Subang ATCC for a friendly football match with his MyTeam and tell him about this .......)
2. Any budget for DATIS under RMK-9 at all ???
(Maybe you guys need to invite 'KJ' to Subang ATCC for a friendly football match with his MyTeam and tell him about this .......)
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KLIA tAXY PROCEDURES
Hi Aviators..I sincerely believe the KLIA guys are trying their best in being pro-active in whatever they are supposed to do. The points regarding the taxy procedures and weather updates have been passed on to the correct guys.Expect improvements.Yep u guys are right..there is on-going trainings currently.
Dave the snail...call me on 019-2316519 and I will pass u a number whom I believe can be helpful to u.
Dave the snail...call me on 019-2316519 and I will pass u a number whom I believe can be helpful to u.
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Thanks Veloo
I have received an email back from a contact in KL and should get an updated copy soon. I'll be there in a couple of weeks and am looking forward o the KL Hilton once more.
I have received an email back from a contact in KL and should get an updated copy soon. I'll be there in a couple of weeks and am looking forward o the KL Hilton once more.
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Flight Plan Submission
Just listening to Subang Ground it seems that in about 40% of cases ATC have no knowledge of a flighplan when an aircraft requests start clearance. Can't something be done to improve on this? It seems that the fax system is not very efficient. Is there any plan to introduce on-line filing as done in some other countries?
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FPL Filing at Subang
Hi Heliaviator, yes I am aware of this on-going problem as I do work once in a month in Subang Tower. The problem is that the AIS has been closed at SBG.The AIS problem has been shifted to the Tower.Eversince then aircraft operators have been faxing directly to the tower. Once the Tower receives a copy, it then faxes back to the ATCC across the road. During off peak hours, tower controllers themselves will enter the data into the system directly in the Tower. However during busy moments, the fpls are refaxed to ATCC. The problem we face at the tower is this: Choppers ETD is 7.30am FPL is faxed to the Tower at 7.25am. Pilot calls for startup at 7.35am. No clearence available because FIS has no details whatsoever( reason: FPL has not been entered into the system yet). I am not saying that this is the case ALL of the time but ground-handlers too must be wise to fax these copies early. The other thing is that FPLS are hand written. Sometimes I wonder whether a pilot has filed the FPL or a doctor.The handwriting is so horrible. Why can't FPLS be typed by your ground handlers? My suggestion is fax it early by at least an hour and then counter check with the tower 15 mins before your ETD.This is being pro-active on your part.Some operators fax it directly to the ATCC. If it is not entered into the system, then Tower will definitely will not have the details.
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Hi Veloo, thanks for your answer.Some of us poor chopper guys don't have handling agents, so we have to do everything ourselves, and as you know all those Datuks and Tungkus always change their mind at the last minute, so we have to rush around getting the aircraft ready as well as doing the paperwork! Anyway, is it better to send the fax (mine are always beautifully printed ) to both the tower and ATCC just to be sure?
Presumably with an Internet filing system the plan is entered into the system automatically saving all these problems?
On another related subject; on a VFR flight plan ATC seem to require the EET for every kampung along the way to be included on the flight plan. This does seem a bit Over-The-Top especially when you consider the on an IFR plan only FIR boundary ETEs are required. Is this really necessary? If is really is necessary where are all the required reporting points published?
Keep up the good work!
) to both the tower and ATCC just to be sure?Presumably with an Internet filing system the plan is entered into the system automatically saving all these problems?
On another related subject; on a VFR flight plan ATC seem to require the EET for every kampung along the way to be included on the flight plan. This does seem a bit Over-The-Top especially when you consider the on an IFR plan only FIR boundary ETEs are required. Is this really necessary? If is really is necessary where are all the required reporting points published?
Keep up the good work!
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VFR FPLs via SZB Tower
Hi Heliaviator....what u can probably do to speed up things is that as soon as u fax to both Tower n ATCC, give them a call on the direct line n see whether they have received your copy. Next tell them u will call for startup at xxxx time and appreciate ATC soon. Mind u, not all tower ctlers will want to help u out if they are busy especially in the mornings. One SZB operator has taken up this advise and seems to be happy that their clearences are on time.It may work but try it out. E-filing for FPLs ...have to send DCA officers to Income tax for trainining.I will talk to the DCA Manager for SZB Tower and see how this on-going problem can be solved for u guys.
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Hi There,
I am a pilot for a major Asian carrier and have just returned from a trip to KL and would like to make some comments on the quality of the atc.
Lumpur Radar often leaves aircraft very high on their descent. This problem has improved a lot since the implementation of uni-directional routes but aircraft are still left high on descent on a regular basis. For example, the other day we were left about 13000ft higher than our normal descent profile.
You guys must also to appreciate that doing something like creating a holding pattern around an intersection that isn’t in our route takes a little bit of time to locate and program into the Flight Management Computer. Lumpur Radar can’t expect to give us instructions to hold like this within 2 to 3 miles of the waypoint and expect us to be able to comply with it.
Having said that the subsequent frequency (Lumpur Director I think) was very helpful and understanding. He asked us if we could do things instead of just telling us.
From my understanding, the problems all came from bad weather passing over the airfield and also a runway change, so obviously things were very busy with controllers having a lot to think about. However, this must happen on a daily basis and anyone would’ve thought that you guys would be able to get used to it.
Sorry if I seem harsh, just being honest
cheers
I am a pilot for a major Asian carrier and have just returned from a trip to KL and would like to make some comments on the quality of the atc.
Lumpur Radar often leaves aircraft very high on their descent. This problem has improved a lot since the implementation of uni-directional routes but aircraft are still left high on descent on a regular basis. For example, the other day we were left about 13000ft higher than our normal descent profile.
You guys must also to appreciate that doing something like creating a holding pattern around an intersection that isn’t in our route takes a little bit of time to locate and program into the Flight Management Computer. Lumpur Radar can’t expect to give us instructions to hold like this within 2 to 3 miles of the waypoint and expect us to be able to comply with it.
Having said that the subsequent frequency (Lumpur Director I think) was very helpful and understanding. He asked us if we could do things instead of just telling us.
From my understanding, the problems all came from bad weather passing over the airfield and also a runway change, so obviously things were very busy with controllers having a lot to think about. However, this must happen on a daily basis and anyone would’ve thought that you guys would be able to get used to it.
Sorry if I seem harsh, just being honest
cheers
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Descent profiles and holding instructions
hi BNEHKG9...tq for your input. Wud appreciate if u cud kindly let me know the actual holding instruction (i.e which point were u told to hold?) Sorry I realize u might have 4gotten but its helpful for me to answer u accurately. Yeap u r right about holding higher than expected due to wx devaitions n runway changes.During this moments a lot of instructions r going on between the Sector Radar Ctler and the Flow Ctler (mind u...this instructions change by the minute at times due to traffic changes from other sectors). This cud be the reason for holding instructions 2 to 3 miles from a particular waypoint though this is not appropriate to u guys.No you r not harsh but welcome to give us your inputs so that we can improve.Hope to hear from u soon.