R/T status in KL FIR
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Hi There,
From memory, the point was PULIP.
I also have a few more points to add as i flew out of KL again recently and
suffered long delays for departure. It was around 45 minutes from pushback to takeoff on runway 14L. There were 5-6 aircraft ahead of us, and 3-4 planes landed, but even when planes were not landing, it was 4 minutes between departures! Weather was CAVOK!
We were told that it was due to calibration aircraft on runway 14R, which sounds ridiculous to me as the other runway is miles away and the weather was good anyway! At other airports they do calibration very early morning before things get busy, and not mid-morning. It was all rather silly.
Thanks again
From memory, the point was PULIP.
I also have a few more points to add as i flew out of KL again recently and
suffered long delays for departure. It was around 45 minutes from pushback to takeoff on runway 14L. There were 5-6 aircraft ahead of us, and 3-4 planes landed, but even when planes were not landing, it was 4 minutes between departures! Weather was CAVOK!
We were told that it was due to calibration aircraft on runway 14R, which sounds ridiculous to me as the other runway is miles away and the weather was good anyway! At other airports they do calibration very early morning before things get busy, and not mid-morning. It was all rather silly.
Thanks again
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Aaaah! That you must have been the 777, five planes ahead of us. Gee that was a long taxi wasn't it.
I think I spent about 55 mins on the ground. Good thing I had the fuel to burn.
To make things a little more interesting, At destination, we were held up as well, due to ILS calibration. Thats at a different country Veloo
.
Its the first time though that I have had this kinda delay here in WMKK.
Probably not the best time to calibrate......but I am sure they have their reasons.
I think I spent about 55 mins on the ground. Good thing I had the fuel to burn.
To make things a little more interesting, At destination, we were held up as well, due to ILS calibration. Thats at a different country Veloo
.Its the first time though that I have had this kinda delay here in WMKK.
Probably not the best time to calibrate......but I am sure they have their reasons.
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Calibration activities
Hi guys...yeap the calibration guys can pose a lot of delays. Normally approach is aware of their schedules. I have to check on this further and get back to you guys especially the part with regards to the schedules. I think if the Approach and Calibration guys can solve it by agreeing on some acceptable time schedules like non-peak hours.
PULIP..not surprised..although flow control gives first preference to arrivals from the east, there r times where runway changes and weather can be a factor in last minute holding instructions. It cud also be to last minute decisions by Sector/Approach or Flow Control if someone either from the north or south have deviated due weather which might have affected the approach sequence of your flight. I hope I am right about this.
PULIP..not surprised..although flow control gives first preference to arrivals from the east, there r times where runway changes and weather can be a factor in last minute holding instructions. It cud also be to last minute decisions by Sector/Approach or Flow Control if someone either from the north or south have deviated due weather which might have affected the approach sequence of your flight. I hope I am right about this.
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Maybe the calibrator can try at nights between 2-5 in the mornings, instead of coming into office at 9, then having breakfast and finally taking off at 10 to be smack inthe middle of everyone else. I think for calibration in KLIA it shouldnt be a 9-5 job for them.
And on a second note, could you please have a word with LGK and get them to fix their anemometer. Was there a few nights back and the tower was giving me winds at 6 kts when my IRS on short finals was indicating 17kts headwind. Queried them and was told its from the metar as the anemometer was u/s. On the take off after rotation it was a tail wind of 14kts, as its a 1 way in, 1 way out for us. The tailwind limits on most jets are 15kts.
And on a second note, could you please have a word with LGK and get them to fix their anemometer. Was there a few nights back and the tower was giving me winds at 6 kts when my IRS on short finals was indicating 17kts headwind. Queried them and was told its from the metar as the anemometer was u/s. On the take off after rotation it was a tail wind of 14kts, as its a 1 way in, 1 way out for us. The tailwind limits on most jets are 15kts.
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Calibration at KLIA
Hi all...found out that the calibrator guys are on a very very tight schedule. Only two pilots who have to cover the whole of malaysias airports. Coupled with heavy equipment for calibration they carry limited fuel, hence the first preference to calibration aircraft. Scheduling is decided by them. We'll see whether we can come to a compromise later.
We'll relay anemometer problems to LGK.
We'll relay anemometer problems to LGK.
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Thats not the point. Is pay all that matters to some people? How about the cost of sitting there burning fuel, delaying passengers and just being fustrated at not going anywhere.
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And remember that with more fuel being burnt on the ground, the less fuel you will have on arrival. Although mostly insignificant, it could meant landing, diversion or even flameout...
Talking about money, more fuel burnoff = less company profit = less chance of bonus.
Talking about money, more fuel burnoff = less company profit = less chance of bonus.
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geh065: ". . . How about the cost of sitting there burning fuel, delaying passengers and just being fustrated at not going anywhere."
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Most controllers will vote to award CPA pilots the Gold Medal for THE MOST COMPLAINT toward ATC
I agree that from the pilots side, often they are a bit impatient and can sometimes voice their opinions in a different way, but usually there is reason behind the comments they make. Other airlines must put up with perceived mediocrity. We do not.
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Zessee,
I do not have a big problem with the english standards. That is not what I am talking about. I realise that in many countries around the world where english is not a main language it can be difficult to expect high standards, that is very understandable, and as you comment we are not perfect in CX either. I agree 100%. I also admit that I cannot speak a single word of your language, although fortunately for me ICAO does not say I have to. English is the main ICAO language and certainly around these parts of the world there is an expectation that we must speak it.
However as far as I know, nowhere did I mention the english standards. Sorry if I gave you the impression I was complaining about it. I was not. Personally I am very tolerant of the english standards from ATC until the point at which safety is compromised which I have not seen very often, but yes I have seen (Not in KUL).
I was referring to your comment about CX pilots 'complaining'. You seem to imply that we just complain for the hell of it. At Cathay we strive for excellence. We may not always acheive it but we strive for it. The company requires it from their pilots and we expect it from the people we come across in our day to day jobs, from cabin crew, to loading staff, engineering and ATC. If there is something that we see as a problem, many of us wil voice our opinions. You can choose to ignore what we say and simply continue as before, but there are some people out there which may want to improve and may not even realise that there is a better way to do things. If no-one complains then how can things improve? Isn't that why hotels and restaurants have guest comment cards? - so opinions (good and bad) can be taken, and improvements made?
I realise that as an ATCO there are many things which are beyond your control, and things which controllers are responsible for may sometimes be the way they are due to the training they have had. This is not their fault but the fault of the system. Air Safety Reports are not things which CX have created...they are a recognised way of reporting safety related issues. I know that in Asia, CX files probably more than anyone. Is ATC purposely putting CX planes in more safety compromising positions that other aircraft? Of course not....it is just that many other pilots in Asia are happy to just do as they are told. Some I bet do not even recognise a safety issue when they are contronted with one.
Unless you recognise your system as perfect, there are improvements to be made everywhere in the world, even with our own operation which is constantly being refined. However without feedback how can you ever expect to get the full picture? CX gives lots of feedback and it should be seen as a good thing and not a pain.
I do not have a big problem with the english standards. That is not what I am talking about. I realise that in many countries around the world where english is not a main language it can be difficult to expect high standards, that is very understandable, and as you comment we are not perfect in CX either. I agree 100%. I also admit that I cannot speak a single word of your language, although fortunately for me ICAO does not say I have to. English is the main ICAO language and certainly around these parts of the world there is an expectation that we must speak it.
However as far as I know, nowhere did I mention the english standards. Sorry if I gave you the impression I was complaining about it. I was not. Personally I am very tolerant of the english standards from ATC until the point at which safety is compromised which I have not seen very often, but yes I have seen (Not in KUL).
I was referring to your comment about CX pilots 'complaining'. You seem to imply that we just complain for the hell of it. At Cathay we strive for excellence. We may not always acheive it but we strive for it. The company requires it from their pilots and we expect it from the people we come across in our day to day jobs, from cabin crew, to loading staff, engineering and ATC. If there is something that we see as a problem, many of us wil voice our opinions. You can choose to ignore what we say and simply continue as before, but there are some people out there which may want to improve and may not even realise that there is a better way to do things. If no-one complains then how can things improve? Isn't that why hotels and restaurants have guest comment cards? - so opinions (good and bad) can be taken, and improvements made?
I realise that as an ATCO there are many things which are beyond your control, and things which controllers are responsible for may sometimes be the way they are due to the training they have had. This is not their fault but the fault of the system. Air Safety Reports are not things which CX have created...they are a recognised way of reporting safety related issues. I know that in Asia, CX files probably more than anyone. Is ATC purposely putting CX planes in more safety compromising positions that other aircraft? Of course not....it is just that many other pilots in Asia are happy to just do as they are told. Some I bet do not even recognise a safety issue when they are contronted with one.
Unless you recognise your system as perfect, there are improvements to be made everywhere in the world, even with our own operation which is constantly being refined. However without feedback how can you ever expect to get the full picture? CX gives lots of feedback and it should be seen as a good thing and not a pain.
, unfortunately, some people just refuse to accept positive criticism, learn, and improve themself ..............Join Date: Dec 2005
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common guys,.......
anyways...i have to say when it comes to controlling the flow on the ground, i personally find hkg to be doing it quite well. i remember mentioning it to you before velloo, when we met up ages ago, about only allowing the flights to call delivery for clearance when they are fully ready for pushback.
and only then, after receiving clearance, to pass them on to the ramp controllers. thereby reducing the "wastage" or last minute delays caused by the last minute passenger changes etc. these are precious minutes that collectively add up to quite a bit at the end of the day.
and then there's the not so popular choice of keeping them at the gates until the Q at the parallel taxiway reduces to ....let's say not mre than 5 a/crafts.....and keeping that number as constant as possible. cos in the end.....it's only the delay of the pushback....but no difference in the time the aircraft arrives at its' destination....therefore only a psychological loss due to delays...but REaL savings where fuel, pollution and enviroment is concerned.
oh the good ol subang.....
anyways...i have to say when it comes to controlling the flow on the ground, i personally find hkg to be doing it quite well. i remember mentioning it to you before velloo, when we met up ages ago, about only allowing the flights to call delivery for clearance when they are fully ready for pushback.
and only then, after receiving clearance, to pass them on to the ramp controllers. thereby reducing the "wastage" or last minute delays caused by the last minute passenger changes etc. these are precious minutes that collectively add up to quite a bit at the end of the day.
and then there's the not so popular choice of keeping them at the gates until the Q at the parallel taxiway reduces to ....let's say not mre than 5 a/crafts.....and keeping that number as constant as possible. cos in the end.....it's only the delay of the pushback....but no difference in the time the aircraft arrives at its' destination....therefore only a psychological loss due to delays...but REaL savings where fuel, pollution and enviroment is concerned.
oh the good ol subang.....
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Flow Control Briefing
The ATC Union would like to thank all MAPA members who attended the briefing by KUL ATC on Flow Control Management in Lumpur TMA. It was indeed an eye opener for both parties. We take this opportunity to thank the MAPA Committee for organising such a gathering at MUM's Place Damansara Perdana. These briefings are available on a adhoc basis to whoever is interested.The only condition is that it has to be informal.
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Eastbound Departures from KLIA
Hi aviators...for the benefit of some who still have some queries about the departures to the east via APAKI or PADLI.
For R14 departures:
The routing is via G584 Y336 PADLI to the FIR BDY and then to the respective Airway (eg BUVAL L629 DOLOX M771/IDSEL M758/KETOD M761 etc).
For R32 departures:
The routing is via W533 G582 APAKI to the FIR BDY and then to the respective Airways (same as above).
The FL allocation for departures to East Msia is on a first come first served basis whereby three levels are offered i.e F330/290/270 (as agreed upon with SIN ATC. Once these three FL's have been given, the next immediate three flights will be offered the same FL's with a ten min separation between each.
Inbound for R14
Routing is via APAKI G582 PIBOS KIDOT and follow the STAR or as directed by Approach.
If via TAXUL then proceed to PIBOS KIDOT and follow the STAR or as directed by Approach.
Inbound for R32Routing is via PADLI Y336 ISTAN NIPAR and follow STAR or as directed by Approach.
If via TAXUL then proceed to PIBOS NIPAR and follow STAR or as directed by Approach.
I hope this simple briefing will be helpful to some who are still queriing me over the phone.
For R14 departures:
The routing is via G584 Y336 PADLI to the FIR BDY and then to the respective Airway (eg BUVAL L629 DOLOX M771/IDSEL M758/KETOD M761 etc).
For R32 departures:
The routing is via W533 G582 APAKI to the FIR BDY and then to the respective Airways (same as above).
The FL allocation for departures to East Msia is on a first come first served basis whereby three levels are offered i.e F330/290/270 (as agreed upon with SIN ATC. Once these three FL's have been given, the next immediate three flights will be offered the same FL's with a ten min separation between each.
Inbound for R14
Routing is via APAKI G582 PIBOS KIDOT and follow the STAR or as directed by Approach.
If via TAXUL then proceed to PIBOS KIDOT and follow the STAR or as directed by Approach.
Inbound for R32Routing is via PADLI Y336 ISTAN NIPAR and follow STAR or as directed by Approach.
If via TAXUL then proceed to PIBOS NIPAR and follow STAR or as directed by Approach.
I hope this simple briefing will be helpful to some who are still queriing me over the phone.
veloo maniam: gidday again
I thought Lumpur ground we not going to use those damn annoying coded routes? Throw em out the window would ya?
Still love flying through KL to Pen, fun trip.
Keep up the good work.
I thought Lumpur ground we not going to use those damn annoying coded routes? Throw em out the window would ya?
Still love flying through KL to Pen, fun trip.
Keep up the good work.
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KLIA Taxy routes
Hi ACMS....talk is that KLIA is in the process of revamping the whole taxying routing system. They will be fine tuning the taxy routes. This was one of the points highlighted during the recent ATC-MAPA dialogue. Will keep u guys updated on that.Happy flying
By all means have a "plan" in mind and publish a route map of arrival and dept taxi routes like they do in Seoul and Narita for the crew to check so we have an idea of what to expect. BUT verbally tell the crew where to taxi so we don't have to go heads down fumbling in the dark to find C37 14L and then read it.
Much easier to say "Taxi via Alpha and Hotel to bay C37".
Thanks
Much easier to say "Taxi via Alpha and Hotel to bay C37".
Thanks
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Lights Off Landings
Hi aviators..just a question which was posed by a fellow controller.
Do u guys include night landings without runway lights in your simulator sessions?
Do u guys include night landings without runway lights in your simulator sessions?