R/T status in KL FIR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: malaysia
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Radar services
Hi flyers...yes it has been quiet for awhile but things are sure moving...in the right direction for a chosen(frozen) few and wrong for the rest of the world.
Yes there is a new radar fixed at Newcastle (Kota Baru). we can now see u guys at IGARI(this is a great blessing for the ATClers.)
Subang Radar is functioning ok. No problem whatsoever. Our problem still is the readability at the ATCC, especially on 132.6 and 123.75 aprox 30-50NM N and NW of VKL. Somehow we are managing. Any Firefly guys on Pprune?
Yes there is a new radar fixed at Newcastle (Kota Baru). we can now see u guys at IGARI(this is a great blessing for the ATClers.)
Subang Radar is functioning ok. No problem whatsoever. Our problem still is the readability at the ATCC, especially on 132.6 and 123.75 aprox 30-50NM N and NW of VKL. Somehow we are managing. Any Firefly guys on Pprune?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: malaysia
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Johore Radar
hello pecyamfa...yes there already exists a radar at Bukit Luncu, Johor. Just fyi, Approach into SIN(from Peninsular Msia) will be done by Johore Approach sometime in the very near future.Equipment are all set and ATClers are now being trained.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: malaysia
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
D-atis and Acars Pdc
Hi VR..the equipment mentioned by u may come in. It's up to the guys in the management team.Never forgotten nor cancelled in toto. Discussions are going on. Infact 2008 will see a total upgrading of ATC Radar in East Msia. In 2009 a lot of equipment software upgrading will be taking place at Subang ACC. So there u r my friend, a lot of goodies are on the way which will be good for both pilot and ATCler.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Uptown
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Further Improvement
Hi VM,
Thank you for the speedy reply WRT DATIS & ACARS PDC. Apart from that, I tend to get very frustrated everytime flying in and out of KUL for various reasons. Among them are late in getting take-off clearance especially when you are in no 2 and above in sequence. I wonder why it takes more than 2 mins to let an aircraft taking off. Just imagine if you are no. 5 in sequence, easily 10 mins wasted at holding point. Having flown to various airports in Asia, Europe and North America, things like this seldom happen. LHR e.g only need 45 secs in between departures. HKG practices 60 secs in between departures.
As for the arrival sequence, why do you require 7 - 10 nm between traffic for arrival in KUL? Why not closer? Again I'm quoting HKG & LHR as examples, both airports practice RRSM, HKG practices 4-6 nm between aircrafts, speed control 180 kts till 8 nm for rwy 25 L/R, 150-160 kts till 6 nm for rwy 07 L/R and LHR 2.5-4 nm between aircrafts, speed 160 kts till 6 nm. I feel that this is quite efficient and able to optimise runway utilisation especially during peak hours.
When are you guys going to get rid of taxi coding instructions? Very annoying I think especially when KUL is not your home base.
Thank you
Thank you for the speedy reply WRT DATIS & ACARS PDC. Apart from that, I tend to get very frustrated everytime flying in and out of KUL for various reasons. Among them are late in getting take-off clearance especially when you are in no 2 and above in sequence. I wonder why it takes more than 2 mins to let an aircraft taking off. Just imagine if you are no. 5 in sequence, easily 10 mins wasted at holding point. Having flown to various airports in Asia, Europe and North America, things like this seldom happen. LHR e.g only need 45 secs in between departures. HKG practices 60 secs in between departures.
As for the arrival sequence, why do you require 7 - 10 nm between traffic for arrival in KUL? Why not closer? Again I'm quoting HKG & LHR as examples, both airports practice RRSM, HKG practices 4-6 nm between aircrafts, speed control 180 kts till 8 nm for rwy 25 L/R, 150-160 kts till 6 nm for rwy 07 L/R and LHR 2.5-4 nm between aircrafts, speed 160 kts till 6 nm. I feel that this is quite efficient and able to optimise runway utilisation especially during peak hours.
When are you guys going to get rid of taxi coding instructions? Very annoying I think especially when KUL is not your home base.
Thank you
Join Date: May 2007
Location: PADLI
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
one quick update from HKG...the CDA now is discussing to further reduce the distance between planes from the current 6nm for a light plane following a heavy plane, and 5nm (9km) for a medium plane following a heavy plane, to just 4nm (7.4km), which is the standard for two heavy planes following one and another.
the move could save about 482,144 miles or about 1,800 flight hours per year, translating to between five and seven minutes for each flight.
the move could save about 482,144 miles or about 1,800 flight hours per year, translating to between five and seven minutes for each flight.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: malaysia
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Minimizing t/off and approach delays at KLIA
Hi Flyers..tq for the inputs. Points noted. I will pass on this pointers to the officers concerned. I totally agree with u guys that we need to fine tune some procedures. Air Traffic has difinitely increased and some sort of action needs to be taken. Just hang on. we'll get back to you.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: malaysia
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Johore Approach
Pecyamfa..Lunchu is ready for approach control. Control will be done from SZB ACC. Equipment all leli. Only ATClers r undergoing training at the moment.
Here is an issue Veloo,
AIP Supp 30/2007 refers, Speed Restriction.
"Cross KIKAL,DAKOR,SASRI,LAPIR,NIPAR,KIDOT--220kts"
"Cross BAXEL,GOMAS,KIMAR,PIMAS--180kts"(~ 17nm to touch down)
"160kts from 10nm until 4nm to touchdown"
May I ask DCA and ATC, what is your point? Why do you want the arriving a/c to hang around in the TMA area longer than it should?
I ask this because this requirement would slow down the arriving a/c from too far out,it would make a queue to form if there is a string of arrival where everyone had to slow down from far as the guy in front is slow.Don't forget the localizer interception point in KUL is about 12nm to touch down.Ideally this is the point a/c starts to slow down from 210/220kts,or slowest be 180kts.But now we have to 180kts before turning to intercept the localizer!!
Now 160kts from 10nm to 4nm is really really bad!!! B737 had to have the gears down to fly that speed,B747,B777 can probably have gears up but hell lots of flap to maintain 160kts,A330 have to use a combination of flap with thrust for that speed. Additional fuel burn is incur as 160kts is NOT a speed to be maintain for such a long period. Of course, building up a queue for arrival would result in flight delays, are you all very eager to have frequent meeting with the transport minister? Or better still DCA wants to pay the airlines fuel bill??
Please refer to other international airports speed restriction.They generally requires the a/c to maintain 180kts until 6nm or to reach 160kts by 4nm.
IMHO,no matter be it for sequencing for departure or arrival, the arriving should maintain high speed.If a slot is required,then ATC should vector or give speed intruction to others to creat the gap.
Come on,you guys can do better than that!
AIP Supp 30/2007 refers, Speed Restriction.
"Cross KIKAL,DAKOR,SASRI,LAPIR,NIPAR,KIDOT--220kts"
"Cross BAXEL,GOMAS,KIMAR,PIMAS--180kts"(~ 17nm to touch down)
"160kts from 10nm until 4nm to touchdown"
May I ask DCA and ATC, what is your point? Why do you want the arriving a/c to hang around in the TMA area longer than it should?
I ask this because this requirement would slow down the arriving a/c from too far out,it would make a queue to form if there is a string of arrival where everyone had to slow down from far as the guy in front is slow.Don't forget the localizer interception point in KUL is about 12nm to touch down.Ideally this is the point a/c starts to slow down from 210/220kts,or slowest be 180kts.But now we have to 180kts before turning to intercept the localizer!!
Now 160kts from 10nm to 4nm is really really bad!!! B737 had to have the gears down to fly that speed,B747,B777 can probably have gears up but hell lots of flap to maintain 160kts,A330 have to use a combination of flap with thrust for that speed. Additional fuel burn is incur as 160kts is NOT a speed to be maintain for such a long period. Of course, building up a queue for arrival would result in flight delays, are you all very eager to have frequent meeting with the transport minister? Or better still DCA wants to pay the airlines fuel bill??
Please refer to other international airports speed restriction.They generally requires the a/c to maintain 180kts until 6nm or to reach 160kts by 4nm.
IMHO,no matter be it for sequencing for departure or arrival, the arriving should maintain high speed.If a slot is required,then ATC should vector or give speed intruction to others to creat the gap.
Come on,you guys can do better than that!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speed restrictions at KLIA
DCA and ATC came out with the speed restrictions because, from our dialogue sessions, we got the impression that a standardized speed would be great for everybody. Many pilots requested for them. As present the disparity in approach speeds are far too big. Just yesterday afternoon, I had a B734 at 135 knots at 6 miles finals 14L with another B734 still showing 270 knots at 12 miles finals 14L (he requested to maintain a higher speed as he was on the high side). Eventually did a side-step to 14R.
Back to the AIP Supplement. Before the AIP Supp came out, we looked at the speeds used at other airports.
• 250KIAS on passing 10000 is pretty much the standard;
• 220KIAS was selected as it represented a clean speed for most aircraft types;
• 190KIAS on turn to intercept the LLZ; and
• 170 KIAS from 10TD to 5TD.
A draft was submitted to MAS, Air Asia and SIA. All gave their comments. MAS requested 180/160KIAS instead of 190/170KIAS. We would assume 160 KIAS came about after all the factors have been considered, e.g. the different aircraft types and their peculiarities.
We realize that traffic is not going to be busy all the time. So we put in place “escape clauses”. When traffic permits, a "high speed" instruction will be issued by the en-route controller that allows the aircraft to disregard the 250KIAS restriction below 10000ft. If the Approach controller does not require the pilot to observe the speed restrictions on the STAR, he will issue a "no ATC speed restriction" clearance.
Keeping aircraft on high speed and vectoring when the need arises creates it’s share of problems – workload, increased RT especially for Rwy 14. The same controller will be assuming control of the aircraft from around FL200 all the way until established on finals. Throw in arrivals and departures from Subang, all under his area of responsibility.
Definitely welcomes suggestions on how to do better!
Back to the AIP Supplement. Before the AIP Supp came out, we looked at the speeds used at other airports.
• 250KIAS on passing 10000 is pretty much the standard;
• 220KIAS was selected as it represented a clean speed for most aircraft types;
• 190KIAS on turn to intercept the LLZ; and
• 170 KIAS from 10TD to 5TD.
A draft was submitted to MAS, Air Asia and SIA. All gave their comments. MAS requested 180/160KIAS instead of 190/170KIAS. We would assume 160 KIAS came about after all the factors have been considered, e.g. the different aircraft types and their peculiarities.
We realize that traffic is not going to be busy all the time. So we put in place “escape clauses”. When traffic permits, a "high speed" instruction will be issued by the en-route controller that allows the aircraft to disregard the 250KIAS restriction below 10000ft. If the Approach controller does not require the pilot to observe the speed restrictions on the STAR, he will issue a "no ATC speed restriction" clearance.
Keeping aircraft on high speed and vectoring when the need arises creates it’s share of problems – workload, increased RT especially for Rwy 14. The same controller will be assuming control of the aircraft from around FL200 all the way until established on finals. Throw in arrivals and departures from Subang, all under his area of responsibility.
Definitely welcomes suggestions on how to do better!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: malaysia
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Arrival speeds
Hello Flight Leader...tq for bringing up the arrival speed restrictions.U might or might not be aware that ATC had on two occassions met up with MH pilots on a adhoc basis. One was at the Kayu Restaurant and the other was at Mum's place. I do not know whether u were there but one thing is sure. It was a meeting beneficial for both sides. Now given the single rwy ops most of the time these days and with the tfc volume increasing by the day, speeds have to be regulated on a real time basis. we try our level best to absorb u guys. There are 4 shifts running the whole atc show thruout the month. As far as my shift is concered (shift D), we try our best NOT to hold u guys unless it is absolute necessity. Weather too hinders a perfect flow. Now this is all enroute traffic coming into the TMAs. My colleague Chew has answered well pertaining to speed controls. With single rwy ops there is definitely adjustments to your landing sequence because your colleague at the holding has to depart too. We are open to suggestions any time. To ask whether DCA would foot the airline fuel bill sounds harsh. It is not our intention to burn your fuel. It's all about SAFETY my friend. Of course atc skills differs on a individual basis. As Chew as said, suggestions are most welcome. We also try to improve and of course with the given limitations we try our best. Maybe our best is not good enough for you. Give us better options. It will be good if you could use your MAS intranet to highlight to the MAPA guys. U see, we have taken the trouble to meet you guys twice. That my friend is Proactiveness on our part. U have any better options? Call me. We'll sit down over a cup of teh tarik and see what we can come up with. Untill then...happy flying.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PKR Party
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys! Just did a flt to Kota Kinabalu and noticed that the DA(Decision Altitute) for ILS 02 is 440 feet. That's 430 feet above the runway. As an ILS Cat 1, shouldn't the DA be 210 feet? (200 ft above the runway)
Any comments?
Any comments?
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Alderaan
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reason for DA 440 at WBKK was due to the VOR hill which was sitiing slightly to the right of CL about a mile from touchdown. They are in the mids of leveling it and once the rwy extensions are done, then you could see a lower DA.
Hi Vello, how have You been? Well on the speed restrictions into kul, in sorry but it looks like the guys from management had their say again! 160kts at 10 miles is way too slow, any operator would tell you that. But input from management has always been to follow SOP, which shall be what the manufactures say, but of course if they are willing to pay for new procedures to these manufactures then these SOP's can be changed and in the long term save more money on the fuel burn then on some silly procedural updates from these manufactures!
Anyway you guys are doing a good job! I personally have seen huge improvements. Hope things would improve better with the new equipment!
Cheers!
Hi Vello, how have You been? Well on the speed restrictions into kul, in sorry but it looks like the guys from management had their say again! 160kts at 10 miles is way too slow, any operator would tell you that. But input from management has always been to follow SOP, which shall be what the manufactures say, but of course if they are willing to pay for new procedures to these manufactures then these SOP's can be changed and in the long term save more money on the fuel burn then on some silly procedural updates from these manufactures!
Anyway you guys are doing a good job! I personally have seen huge improvements. Hope things would improve better with the new equipment!
Cheers!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: India
Age: 42
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Greetings...
Hi Friends,
I am Sadik husain from INDIA, i have RTR(Aero) License. please inform me if any RT jobs available. my email address is [email protected]
Thanks and regards,
Sadik husain
I am Sadik husain from INDIA, i have RTR(Aero) License. please inform me if any RT jobs available. my email address is [email protected]
Thanks and regards,
Sadik husain