R/T status in KL FIR

[Chrome]

Thanks Brianigham, I understand where the concern is now. We are (pilots, controllers, dispatch etc) all trying to get used to AIP09/2006. And since it's going to be around for months to come, feedback is appreciated. Thanks for clarifying

[Fair.Pilot]

Looking out from the Satellite Terminal I could not see any work in progress for Runway 14R. Or do you guys in "Boleh" Land stop contruction work after 5pm? I've been observing this everytime I land into KLIA since 1 month ago.

Please don't close the runway for the sake of closing! Double up the construction pace and save the misery for all! Fuel price is on the rise too!

Or just another "Sikap Tidak Apa?"

[imdragon]

LANDING AND TAKE CLEARANCES ON OTHER THAN THE DESIGNATED TOWER FREQUENCIES.

[QUOTE=Chrome]Fair.Pilot, but this wasn't the case of Tower 118.8 being in charge of Ground 121.65. It was Ground 121.65 being in charge of Tower 118.8, giving instructions to aircraft on approach and giving clearances to land and takeoff. Well I know it's not that important but I was just wondering why. No biggie.
Hi Brianigham...............
Chrome, your curiosity is well founded. It is safer to have all traffic operating on the designated frequencies. Situational awareness among the pilots operating into and out of the same runway is improved and pilots can catch controller fowl-ups. We erect walls or rather displace the ‘Swiss Cheese’ holes in the slices so that all do not align and end up in an incident/accident. Believe me; I have come across many instances where pilot/controller queries (works both ways) have saved situations. It helps push air-safety a notch higher. During my days in KLIA I never condoned take-off and landing clearance on other than the designated frequencies. Unfortunately some of controllers did practice it then and the inclination to do it more often happens during the lull nights. But it is during this lull night periods that controllers fight hard to keep their eyes open and it only needs two traffic to catch the controller off-guard.
I am not a privy to the culture now. There could be other genuine reasons for the particular event. Consider two real-life situations below.
1. Flight comes on the wrong frequency. After weighing the situation for the sake of expediency and reducing pilot workload the controller may elect to give the instructions on the frequency the flight is currently on. This event could have been triggered by both controller and/or pilot error. Chances of controller instructing the wrong frequencies, I presume increases when the controller moves from one frequency to another in ad-hoc rotation and of-course fatigue/ loss of concentration etc.etc
2. The designated frequency could have failed. (Even then there they also have quality backup radios readily available at each of the each of the workstations/frequencies.)
I believe ATC management in KLIA is extremely safety conscious despite the accompanying constraints of a government organization. If they catch any safety lapses I am sure they would put it right. Time permitting, events quoted can be clarified, acted upon or even resolved if a call is made on the land-line to the Tower Supervisor (direct line 603-87874230) of the shift at the soonest. Notwithstanding the previous I am sure Veloo would try to deliver the message. If opportunity arises I will do it too.

[The Rage]

Vello old boy,
Hows it going in atc? I just got a company memo, that there would be some atc'ers doing some flts with us? Can u tell me whats it going to be about, coz i think there's going to be one on my flt. Looking foward to it!

The Rage

[veloo maniam]

Famliarisation Flights

Hi Rage....glad to hear from you young man....There is a programme called Familiarisation Flights(better known as FAM Flights among Controllers) for ATClers all over the world. These are actuially "study" trips whereby ATClers sit in the cockpit and observe cockpit crew workload and are to monitor ATC conversations. The goal is to get the ATCler to see for himself/herself what exactly transpires in a particular flt. The ATCler is supposed to ask some questions and so forth. The main idea is to see the 'busyness' the crew go thru particularly during landings so that we may not ask you silly questions like acft registration while u r trying your best to avoid the dog on the rwy. The other reason is also to hear for themselves how fast we tend to talk compared to SIN and BKK Controllers. Also if may add, let the ATCler hear for himself how 'smooth,clear and crisp'' our ATC transmissions are at the moment. Other than that, they r supposed to visit the tower or ATCC in the particular destination to see how 'advanced' we r. Welcome us please with open arms. Some of them may tend to talk too much while others may come in with super glue in their mouths...help them out mate. Make their trips a truly educational one....don't 4get the satay and the guava juice...my favourite.Ciao my brother

[The Rage]

I can promise the guava juice but not the satay, thats only on certain int sectors. Thanks, i'll bring some ear plugs and im sure ill get the others talking. Bet on it!

[veloo maniam]

FAM Flts

Tks Rage..I know u guys r waiting to 'educate' the Controllers.
By the way my new mobile no. is 019-2316519. Kindly take note n pls pass this info to the other Capts. about this FAM Flight programme.

[vertalop]

Take-off Clearance

I was observing a flight recently and noticed that the take-off clearance was given as part of a long message which included frequency to change to once airborn and other instructions. The pilot read back the frequency change and level instructions but not the take-off clearance. We then rolled.

Is it normal policy in Malaysia that a take-off clearance shall be issued separately from any other clearance message? If not maybe this is worth considering.

As a pilot I hope that I always clearly transmit "cleared for take-off" before I do so, so that if I have made a mistake the contoller has a chance to stop me.

[veloo maniam]

Flow Control's restrictions

hi Flyers...I have been receiving some sms regarding poor Flow control restrictions i.e Area Radar Controllers giving instructions 'last minute' and the normal 'why can't u guys make up your mind earlier' stuff. To be fair to the Flow controller, some of them have been doing a great job. With the on-going Air Defence Exercise, there are times when the Flow Controller goofs up some timings. I would like your opinions on this matter.
No 2, I would like to know how much 'damage' does the on-going Air Exercises do to your liquid gold. This is due to pushing down the airplanes much earlier than your top-of-descent.

[flightleader]

Veloo,

Please send my regards to all the ATCers for doing a good job. I've notice that they are now efficient and comfortable enough too space a/c down to 5nm on approach and around 7nm with departure in between.

As for better improve the current situation, may I suggest ATCers bring this up to high authorities:

The recent runway closure for upgrade had cause much delays to ALL aircrafts. MAHB has plan to switch runway once 14R is completed. Same sort of delays can be expected except it would be longer ground time on arrival instead of departure.It would still be delays. The runway upgrade is to prepare for A380. Now with Airbus delayed delivery,which we may well see another announcement very soon, MAS's A380 may not come next year or or the year after or it may never come at all!!! With today's airlines that fly in and out of KLIA, which one of them could use a A380? Not in the next 2 to 3 years. Simply because these airlines would not get their a/c yet.OK, even if they get it, they could not fill it up with KLIA's traffic! Let examine which airline uses B747 at this stage: Saudi, MAS, Lufthansa once in a blue moon...who else? Just a hand full. Therefore, what's the hurry to upgrade both the runways?? Wouldn't one runway be enough to cater the "occational future" use by the A380? I suggest MAHB should DELAY 2nd runway upgrade until there is solid ground to show that one of these big plane is actually gonna use this airport!

I'm suggesting this to be done by ATCers simply because you have the figures of a/c movements,we drivers don't.

[veloo maniam]

KLIA Single Runway Ops

Hi Flightleader...tks for the compliments. It is true that we ATClers are seeing ourselves as Air Traffic Managers rather than ATClers. The ATS Division has been quite active this year with their Safety Courses here and there. I personally too have been 'educating' a number of young controllers about this air traffic management thing and also that we are service providers for which the Government is paying us. It is therefore our duty to provide the best form of ATS(air traffic services) to all who use the Malaysian FIR. The problem is that only a few of us pride in ourselves as ATClers whereas most of them just consider it as a job( just over bored). I just love this job and would always endeavour to give my best. We are also encouraged to see the director of ATS dropping by during the night shifts to see how things are going. All these highlights by u guys are paying off too.U know..many are reading your inputs too especially in ATC. Tks for your support. I believe it is working bothways. About the rwy upgrading for the A380, there is nothing much any one of us can do. I believe the tenders and contracts have all been given out and work has to go on.Yes ATC has the figures but it is MAHB that is calling the shots.Sorry..ATC can't offer any help here. There is a joke that goes about like this. In every marriage there are 4 rings. The engagement Ring, the wedding Ring, the suffeRing and finally the enduRing. Depends in which phase one is.

[Fair.Pilot]

Veloo and team... WELL DONE!

Things are improving slowing but surely.


Just to share my experience on 132.6 few days ago. An a/c missed some ATC instructions and was trying to confirm last clearance. A female voice in a loud and irritate tone responded "AFFIRM!!!" Another time an a/c asked for deviation due weather, and the respond from a man was a quick and short"APPROVED!!!"

We all know the frustrations that come with the job. But don't forget the world (other a/c from all over the world) is watching us.

Malaysia Boleh!

[veloo maniam]

ATC Courtesy

Fair Pilot...tks for your input. Let me offer my apologies for the irritant reply by the female ATCler. I feel sad when ATClers shout and potray their displeasure at pilots.ATClers need to be firm but not irritating. What we tend to forget is that the reception varies at different locations.Either we dont get u or u dont get us. Hence the BP goes up. Of course there are times too when pilots goof up and irritate us but then again we are trained to handle matters politely. There is one particular airline who just keeps silent when restrictions are given. However if they want a higher level or deviation, the response is immediate.Not once or twice but 95% of the time .I have personally called six times before I got a response whereas others nearby and further away were reading us strength 5. Basically most ATClers try their best in not losing their temper BUT once in awhile it happens. To err is human to forgive is divine, so goes the saying. Just for your info, the 132.6 sector (known as Sector 3) is a busy sector. If u had read my earlier threads, one single controller has to monitor traffic in n out of KLIA/SZB via PK/Padli, VKB,IGARI, to n fro PEN via VKB and tfc to n fro BKK/SIN etc. I do not understand why despite the decision to split this sector long ago, the progress is still at snails pace. Perhaps the ATS Division believes that if we can handle it for so long why not continue. Take heart my friend, we are trying to improve. I have a brother in law who flies the jumbo with MAS. Whenever we meet n talk about ATC in Malaysia n most other parts of the world, we are not that too bad although there is room for improvement. what say u? Malaysia pun boleh

[veloo maniam]

Speed restrictions before TOD

Just recieved a phone call from a W/Body Capt. regarding speed restrictions given after Top of Descent(TOD). The question was why is that speed restrictions are given after they have commenced their descent. This happens most of the time when they are inbound from the south (Abm Arama) and PK.
Good question Capt. The reason is speed restrictions are imposed by the Flow Controller as soon as he/she decides on the sequence into KLIA. Once this is done, the Sector Ctler will advise the acft accordingly when in contact.This phrase 'when in contact' can be when one has already started their descent in SIN a/space (eg just before VJR) or well before PK depending upon the height.
Pro active CTlers like me will call up SIN and advise SIN ATC to advise the acft regarding descent speed so that one can adjust their speed accordingly. Not many ATClers do that for reasons best known to them. I know it is very frustrating to receive a restriction when one is already too close.
My advise is that when you are inbound into KUL the next time, check with SIN ATC whether there are any speed restrictions in your descent. This helps eliminate a lot of frustration for both flyer and CTler. Many times SIN ATC swithches frequencies right on the dot at ABM Arama or PK. By that time you are already well past your TOD.

[jetrat]

subang atc.

hi there velloo,

hi there,

sorry for the long silence, has been quite a while. have basically been away, am now with the "big bird" at the roundabout down the street,.... ...
noticed that the bigger "one too many engine" bird in szb is kinda given quite low priority when it comes to traffic management in szb.

would you please impress on the guys in szb tower that this bird burns quite a bit of fuel more than the light aircrafts and the turboprops that also operate there.....maybe you could suggest that they ask the other traffic if they would mind swapping sequence with the md11 as the operations are extremely time sensitive....and....not to mention have slots to make for the ever busy routes....etc.

i know if i were flying the smaller ones, i'd not have any issue with letting the "heavies" expedite their arrivals and departures,.....especially since they are scheduled operators....and the fact that they burn only less than the jumbo....

hope you'd put in a kind request to the szb twr guys......ill remember to drop by and say hi too..... .

[The Rage]

Hey jetrat old boy,

Nice to see u back. Been a while, was starting to miss you. Ok u bring up WMSA issues, since that ure new home for the time being.

P.S. Thanks for informing me before u left!

[Chrome]

Holiday Wishes

Hey guys,

Wishing all Lumpur and Kinabalu FIR regulars, controllers and pilots a happy Deeparaya.

I sure hope my crew will send some of that rendang to the cockpit...

[Brianigham]

Jetrat!!!!

Well done bro!

Back to good ol' 15/33 eh!

The good thing is that "kayu" is still @ the same place.


Veloo. I little late, but have a blessed Divali sir. Same to everyone else out there.
Merry DEEPARAYA.

[veloo maniam]

Festive Greetings

Hi flyers, ATClers in KUL FIR...KUL ATC wishes all a wonderful Deeparaya.
Jetrat...SZB is catering for all types of acft unlike KLIA. Here u have mosquitos to Jumbos. It's also a training ground for new ATClers. Hence u will see basically a first-come-first served basis going on here. With a very limited a/space (5nm and GL-1500') there is nothing much one can do. All IFR flts depend on the Approach Controllers jurisdictions.Period.We'll try to accomodate u. Give me a tingkle.
Chrome n Brianigham...thanks for the wishes. The Raya week has always been a busy week working....for the last 32years. Another 6 more and goodday to ATC. I enjoy every moment of it.Nothing can beat passion.

[jetrat]

happy happy deepa deepa raya raya

yes the good ole subang inter......
minus the building and lots of grass......
still, exciting times.....

yeah i suppose there's the lot there.....don't forget to deep freeze the mutton curry too .........

oh....gotta try recall the days of the jumbo and the ndb approach into subang too.......