In all honesty, I'd rather gain information from people I know personally than others hiding behind a computer screen.

Seriously, this guy was joined Cathay and within 10 years (he started at 25) was chief pilot. He took advantage of the resources available at CX and as such was rewarded.

Some posters here, on the other hand, may have been flying for 20+ years, yet all they do is complain about conditions at CX. An airline isn't going to reward pilots who aren't happy and negative about the company.

Simple maths.

He gave me the advice that if you approach work, or more importantly life, in a positive manner, then Karma will reward you.

All you ever do is complain about money. Money isn't everything. If it is, then get another job, as you obviously have the wrong priorities.

Why? Because they are more intelligent than you? Because they are more respected than you? Because you know that you couldn't get a position like that, even if you tried?

He was rewarded for being loyal to CX and showing EQ. Clearly you don't have this skill.

Why would you be rewarded? You always complain about CX. You moan about people getting better career opportunities than you.

Called EQ. It's needed to be successful.

1.2M that increases annually, from the 12th year of employment onwards.

Seems like a lot of money to me.

Someone has to be an SO. You get promoted after a maximum 4 years as an SO to JFO, then become captain 8 years later.

If the money you earn from CX is your sole income, then you must be crazy. Share dividends etc can earn tens of thousands per year.

Plus CX give you a housing allowance, depending on your rank at CX. Something like 18k a month when captain.

truss20... we all know you are management or god forbid... part of recruitment. Give it up!!! :=

I on the other hand am loving this!

What a W^NKER! Either way, if he's a company boy it reeks of desperation. If he's honestly an iCadet hopeful then even better! CX attract immature brat know-it-alls like this nowadays. Karma he says??!! Well, CX the big wheel is turning and here is your karma!! Either a) this is the depths your staff will go to, or b) the style of applicant you attract. Karma!!!

It's so easy to make millions from these illustrious share portfolios after all! Who would've thought? Easy money! Who ever loses on the stock market, especially in this day and age?? It's so easy - sort of like flying an aircraft on Xbox or watching a youtube video. This guy's got his whole career nailed!

Kid, no one is bitter or complains about the job they asked for, signed for and agreed to. (In my case interviewed for and was offered). What they are angry at is that what they signed and was offered is not respected or lived up to by the other party. In fact, they search vehemently for ways to get around them. They lie, cheat and deceive. All facts published and proven. You haven't a clue, so again this is the funny thing about you. You're just an immature, clueless idiot.

In the mean time fella, best prepare for your interview. I'd like to say get stretched, lubed and bent over but methinks you're already well seasoned.

Good. I hope you do turn people off the cadetship...more chance of myself getting in.

So ChinaBeached, you say that there a "published and proven facts" that state Cathay lie and cheat. Show me that information, but please don't link me to a post from another jealous hater as that is not evidence.

That again just demonstrates your complete ignorance. You have done no background research but from this out of touch idol of yours. More chance for you? You don't need it! You have friends in high places to recommend you don't you... And a financial plan about to make you millions. It's all so EASY!!!

The book is called "The 49ers - The True Story" by Captain John Warham.

That book has been mentioned countless times on this, and other forums / threads. Nothing it that book could have been published for fear of litigation.

Read it. And while you're at it - grow up.

internet forum war :ugh: of all places it's on this forum.

ChinaBeached is hitting hard on everyones posts! lol i wasnt trying to give sound advice to follow, just my opinion. It's a hard life I'm sure being an SO at CX, but if you're willing to put the effort, bite your tongue and live like a poor person! do it lol.

Sidhu, have an opinion by all means but back it up. Where do your opinions come from?

Experience?

Credentials?

Knowledge?

Or pipedreams, wishful thinking, stary-eyed ignorance & a head in the sand mentality.

You guys want 1+1 to = 11. People with little things like experience, credentials & knowledge are explaining the answer is 2. But you'll have the audacity, ignorance & self-absorbed ideal to argue based on your "opinion".

So as not to come down "hard" on your fantasies:- the world is flat, you can make gold from urine, the stock market is a bottomless pit of self-service cash, there was / is no gloabal financial crisis and fairies exist. That should satisfy your study prep as I'm sure I've already exceeded your aviation, airline & CX knowledge base.

Most pilots of today value the ideals & principles the pilots of tomorrow (you, Truss & co) are lining up to crap all over & call a good opportunity.

I've been reading this forum for a while, and felt it time for myself to make a comment. First let me state that I do not fly for CX.

It seems to me that alot of people on here living in the past, hoping to hold onto some grasp of "good ole days". Terms and conditions are reducing across the board for pretty much everyone involved in aviation. Thats a fact. It sucks, however its true. No new pilots will ever fly for the 1980's CX, the 1990's Qantas or for the european legacy's of the same era. These companies don't exist

What I would ask to the main contributors on here is this, what else would you have these "wannabees" do? Stay in GA? Fly regional for crap money in the hope of one day getting on the ever increasing number of low cost carriers? In my opinion this program, especially for someone without the money to fund their own training, seems to be one of the better options available. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

I'm also wondering if the current A-scale pilots feel the same way about pilots signing B-sacle contracts back in the 90's? Honest question.

On a side note, I do agree that some of the hopeful applicants who have posted in the last fe pages might want to check their smugness at the door! Its not a good trait, especially in aviation. Having said that, some of the 'experienced' guys should probably do the same! If you dont like the company you work for.....leave! Simple. Getting angry at kids over the internet seems a little pathetic.

And before Chinabeached and other angry men start their ranting, yes my opinion IS based on a wealth of experience and knowledge.

@letsgofishing This is what I've been trying to say. These problems are not limited only to Cathay, but most large airlines worldwide. Virtually all the American airlines have had to enter some form of Bankrupcy and subsequently merge with one and other (Continental+United etc), so the problem with money is not something that only Cathay face.

Again, the prospect of free training in 61 weeks as opposed to paying 100kAUD (900kHKD) and having to get hours up over the period of 4-5 years by your own will power and motivation is very appealling to people who have 0 hours.

For myself, my other options are to try for a Jetstar or Virgin Aus. Cadetship, both of which want you to pay 40k upfront+a further 80k that comes out of your salary! QANTAS is out of the question due to their 're-branding.'

Add to that living in an awesome city like HK, with the option to move back to Aus after 5 years makes the program seem a very attractive proposal.

Truss20 I understand what your are saying, however there are many things that you can take from the commenst on this site. For example, if you want to fly with Cathay, do not bank on moving back to Australia. The company is based in Hong Kong, the company will always be based in Hong Kong, expected to live there for your entire career if you intend on staying with them.

However if you are planning on using Cathay as a means to get a licence and then after your 6 years, leave, then i would suggest that maybe your priorities are not in the right place. Cathay is not a stepping stone airline!

just something to think about.

True
 

I wish there was a 'like' button on Pprune.

Fishing....my "rant" is as valid as your "rant".

I disagree completely with your defeatist attitude that we should just blindly accept lower terms, conditions, training standards, applicant requirements, and safety. Just because it happens, does't make it right. If as you say you do have the credentials and experience - and I trust you do if you say - then to defend this is just incredibly wrong in any professional airman's eyes.

In aviation we seek to always find higher standards, and promote higher levels of safety. You claim to accept and almost welcome the lowering of them. I cannot for the life of me comprehend how an experienced pilot could say such a thing.

All the rights and standards you had and have were once fought for by another. And what ever happened to leaving the profession in a better place then when you entered it?

Please then by all means place your nearest and dearest on the next flight with the cheapest option at the helm.

You're right. And why? Because the opinion you have offered allows it. Pilots are and always will be their own worst enemy. So why cower down to the lowest common denominator? Why not fight for the raising of the bar??!! Call it market rates, call it a sign of the times, call it anything else.... Terms and conditions ARE NOT lowering across the board. How did Slosar's terms and conditions get lowered? No - he just received a 70% pay increase as he seeks to make some 400 pilots redundant. And how has CX's DFO or GM, etc suffered? Have their terms and conditions lowered? Hell no. Their salaries have grown far in excess of the CPI while the pilots had to threaten CC just for a pay rise due for over a decade just in line with inflation! (From memory of an AOA update the DFO received over a 72% [????] pay increase over the same period the pilots had received nothing, and he fought to withhold any increase in pilot salaries) So, no. This is not an "across the board" issue at all, and far from it. It is greed. Shear greed. And it comes at the expense of standards and safety as the trade off. And the target is squarely aimed at those naive enough to go for it. Do you not ask yourself why so many experienced pilots do not apply to CX anymore? They know what they and the job are worth and refuse it.

CX recently reduced the SO FFS training by 50%. It was once 12 sims for DESO who came with ATPL's and 1000's of hours experience, but now 6 sims for a fresh CPL holder yet to fly a commercial aircraft. So please don't say there is no safety or training being compromised.

Yes. They would build "experience" and "knowledge" and "credentials" before being let loose on potentially 400+ pax. After 6 years, where would they go? They have no recognisable hours outside of the CX / CAD umbrella. The P2X rating or therefore hours are not recognised. So, when they become JFO they start their ICAO "loggable" hours from where they last left their Dutchess or C152. So, add at least 4 years to that 6 before even hoping to be completive just for a light twin job back in Oz. Too bad if there is an unforeseen need to leave CX and HK... They are screwed. LONG TERM affects of living in HK on a housing allowance not factored to inflationary affects.... A house/apartment to save for and buy? A wife? A family? Education? Single income with wife pregnant? And so on.... These guys by and large have zero appreciation or care for these things. They just see "big shiny jet quick".

In GA or a RHS job on a turboprop or even RHS in a 737 / A320 at least builds credible and recognisable hours that they can use. They OWN those hours, as opposed to the shackles CX places on them.

And lastly, what of the pressure on the present day CX pilots contacts? If one group of hopefuls will do it for approx 60% less, hell, why not create another 49ers on a larger scale and sack even more and fill those spots with the cheapest option??!! (Exaggerated example, of course). Who cares of safety and standards when cheap is all that is sought after??

And then we have young not even wet behind the ears Truss here who has done so very little research about the job. He is pinning his financial security on making millions from the stock market and moving back to Oz after 5 years. He knows nothing of the real job and of course less than nothing about the basing fiasco presently going on at CX. And this is the future of the industry. What an insult.

So, does this CEP contribute to aviation in general or detract from it?

Fishing, I'm happy to have an educated discussion about this if you wish. We can agree to disagree but maybe best via PM's.

By no stretch am i promoting the lowering of training standards or the lowering of terms and conditions within the aviation industry, i'm simply stating that its possibly not fair to blame these young kids for this very fact!

As far as doing less sims, I would possibly suggest that this is simply due to the sim training such cadets receive in adelaide.....once again happy to be corrected.

Also it might not be fair to group all Cadets in the same basket....is there not 2 other streams that cater to the more experienced? wouldn't this mean you guys would getting a fair bunch or experienced pilot?

Surely something needs to be done within the current collection of pilots, rather than simply asking the younger guys to give up an opportunity. you'd be hard pressed to find a pilot who would give up a job, so as not to upset someone or keep them happy.

Just my thoughts

....and therein lies the key:

A "ME FIRST & SCREW THE REST & THE REPERCUSSIONS" attitude.

No, the cadets do not receive 744, A330/340 or 777 sim time in AD. Their FFS training has been halved as cost saving exercise. So, after 6 sims your never-flown-a-commercial-aircraft-pilot-dude is now the soul occupant of the cockpit when the LHS driver is taking a leak.

Yes, they do offer different courses for differing levels of experience. But by and large (correct me if wrong) the overwhelming majority of applicants are ab initio. By and large pilots with experience value their experience and profession. Pilots with an ATP / ATPL accepting this CEP are very few and very far between. And do you not ask why??

This IS NOT an "opportunity". It is a grab for cash using the stary-eyed ignorance of kids who want to be pilots and do not know, or in the overwhelming case on this forum do not want to know the realities. It is precisely candy from a baby.

But yes, I do blame any "adult" (as these kids are meant to be treated as if > 18) putting forth the most idiotic remarks to justify this CEP, as the likes of Truss here has. I do blame pilots for screwing their own profession like this. And I do blame these "adults" who either know or refuse to acknowledge what they are creating by accepting it. Blame them for agreeing to this? Yes.

Like I've said a few times, one day these guys will be screwed over by either management, another pilot / colleague or both. They'll have the remarkable audacity to feel insulted when all along this is what they are doing right here and now - willingly.

So again, does this CEP contribute to higher standards in aviation or detract from them?

Guys, a question. What is the time that your application is going to expire? So you have to fill in a new application..?

Thanks.

CW

truss20

Firstly, it is not free training. You will be bonded for 6 years, break it - then pay $$$. You will also be leaving with hardly any experience!
If you decide to leave as an S/O you will not have a command rating endorsement or a co-pilot rating endorsement on the aircraft you flew. If you leave as a JFO/FO you will only have the a hours you accumulated once in that position. A pretty small amount for 6 years of flying and no financial savings since the housing deal is now crap!! :ugh:

Secondly, if you have Zero hours... then sorry, you are no longer eligible as there is now a requirement to have a minimum of 250hrs. Surely you knew this though, since you are from recruitment ;)

I was in the bank a few days ago and overheard (I couldn't help it - I was in the cubicle adjacent) a new S/O BEGGING the bank for a loan.

Heart wrenching really. The bankers (two of them) were very politely explaining that he earned too little, had a massive tax liability and frankly, hadn't a hope at his salary level, despite him trying to boost it by adding subsistence and travel allowances(!)

For a loan, they added, he would have to come up with 33% of sale value plus stamp duties before they could even consider it, but that he was a long way off with barely $10K a month in savings.

He left rather dejected, a few bank brochures in hand, almost in tears.

This, newbies and wannabees, is the reality of this "new" Cathay.

What more can I say?

And this is mine / our point precisely.

It is the LONG TERM which is what these kids refuse to consider (and CX prey on). "But I have friends at CX as iCadets who are getting by OK...." Really? But are they saving and able to plan for a secure future? No. Many posts back I calculated approximately 22 years, give or take a few of course, before an iCadet starting from zero could afford to OWN outright a property in HK (valued at approx $5.5 million HKD). Their savings capacity against their salary, the lending requirements mixed with a diminishing net housing package, inflation..... No. And no sympathy for this guy in question. He made his bed and only now he's finding the fleas, bed bugs & lice that he was told were prevalent.

I would be assuming he would be watching every dollar, has been for some time and still is only able to "save" $10k HKD per month. And again I'll wager he hasn't factored in a potential family, kids, single income with pregnant wife, not to mention life's "what if's" that will happen if he is remotely surprised by the bank's response.

What astounds me even more that the iCadet in this example didn't take Truss' advice and make quick 'n easy millions from the stock market?

Then again, what would banks or lending institutions know.....

My opinions are just opinions, thats all. I was interested in the program but thoroughly reading through these posts and problems its something that I wouldnt do... but - there are kids out there that think this is their calling. all i am trying to say is, lets not destroy a kids dream - he wants CX do it. Who are we to make decisions for others. We can give good advice, and help point people in the right direction - as for me, I am sticking with trying to get hired with the regionals. I'll work my butt of here in the states get my experience, actually get to fly and move from there! Happy flying guys, chinabeached loveee you <3 lol relax brother

Stage 2 interview, HK, first week of February! Any takers??

Companies all over the world make billions in profit and their employees seldom get rewarded from it. It's a part of life. Not fair, but it is.
I know, but at least you are paid a hell of a lot more to fly for a commercial airline+already have experience in big jets. Not 'official,' but you have it.

Finally, what airlines are going to treat their pilots much better? Emirates work their pilots like dogs, QANTAS want to hire on cheaper wages (far cheaper than CX) etc so this is why the Cathay program looks so appealing.

:D Ah finally Truss, you reveal who you are.

A youngster who knows nothing about the airline industry other than the little bits of glorified CX information handed down from the ex chief pilot of the golden era?

Or perhaps judging from your last post.

Someone who has knowledge of the competitions terms and conditions even though you would not qualify for the job with them (EK). Someone who knows more about the industry recruitment than you are letting on. If you really are working for CX, this truly is pathetic.

Stage 2 Interview
 

I am currently preparing for the Stage 2 interview in early Feb. Anyone with HELPFUL information please PM me.

I am currently preparing for the Stage 2 interview in early Feb. Anyone with HELPFUL information please PM me.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Hey,

First of all best of luck with your Stage 2 interview.

Secondly I think rather then ask to be spoon fed the information by a private PM you should try the obvious thing... read the huge thread you have posted in... your answer is there!

I've recently posted my Stage 1 experience, well no use to you but others have posted their experience of Stage 2 and what to expect!

I find it quite saddening to have put in all the effort to study for ALL the stages for CX and to just fail on Stage 1 to then see someone ask for the information to be handed over without even demonstrating the effort you put into your Stage 2 preparations.
I have folderS of information about CX, HK and practice papers to study.

Sorry to have posted something that you may just find quite irrelevent... but there are many users in this forum who would be more then happy to help you and give you advice... Just show them that you are putting in the effort on your side. Dont just ask "stage 2 help", explain the research you have done and ask for clarification..

Once again, best of luck and I hope you succeed.

Does somebody knows here how long your application is 'valid'? So I have to fill in a new application or so..?

Appreciate it.

Money isn't everything. But if you have 2 options, of which you acquire the same credentials, you're obviously going to go with the one that is of better value.

That's not contradicting, it's common sense.

BTW I know information about EK as I had a contact who flew for them for a couple of years as both a pilot for Emirates and the UAE private 777. He said the hours they made him work were too stressful (even though the pay was good) and as such he left for Turkish Airlines last year. Apparently they are a good airline as they are less stressful with hours and operate new aircraft.

Anyone with stage 2 mid feb?pm me

If you spent the time wasted arguing on here studying then I am sure your chances at passing will be greater, it's common sense.

Tupps

According to our recruiting schedule you will now be competing with Pakistanis!

I keep hearing from the kids that "this offer is the new reality/norm".

Here's a hint: You don't fish for pilots in Pakistan if you are offering "the norm".

Just keep signing up guys, don't listen to us with 10+years.:ugh:

Rumour Confirmed - No more Internatinal Cadets with less than 250 hours!
 

I can now confirm that CX is not allowed to hire International Cadets with less than 250 hours any more.
This limitation has been re-imposed by the Hong Kong Immigration Department.

Applicants that has passed Stage 1 of the interview process or has been invited to Stage 1, will not be affected.

Regards
PP

P.S. Kung Hei Fat Choy!!

Hi guys,

first i have to say you can find a lot of good information between the arguments in this thread about the interview and i want to say thanks to the people who took the time to wrtie the reports and facts.

I understand that both sides have valid points to agree or disagree with the new CX SO terms and conditions. Still, for my personal situation CX remains a good option so i want to ask some questions regarding the application.

Currently i hold my FAA CPL/IR license and almost finished my JAA ATPLs. Can i apply before i finish my ATPLs and state the expected date of finishing my ATPLs and CPL/IR conversion in the application?

The other thing is my school education was done in Germany and my school education ist not comparable at all with the english or american system. How can i enter it? Just in the german form and translated?

Take care people!

Min hours
 

Why would the gov't care how many hours one has when they go to Australia for training? Wouldn't it only matter how many hours they have when they finish and go to Hong Kong to work? I would think people with close to 150+ hours will be surpassed 250 that when finished. Seems odd they would change the minimum for eligibility into the programme itself.

The rule has to do with hiring "Skilled" or "Unskilled" labourers by a Hong Kong company.
The Hong Kong Immigration Department (IMMD) has a rule that states (in laymen's terms):

If a company wants to hire a "skilled" labourer, they must first search in Hong Kong, but if no such skilled worker can be found in Hong Kong, then they are allowed to hire from abroad.
If a company wants to hire an "unskilled" labourer, then they can ONLY hire a permanent Hong Kong resident (since they are going to have to train the person anyway).


Now recently the IMMD have stated that any pilot with less than 250 hours is "unskilled" and can therefore only be hired if he/she is a permanent Hong Kong resident.

This requirement is looked at when the person is hired by the company, i.e. BEFORE going to Adelaide.

So, in summary, the entry requirements has not been changed by CX, but by the Government of Hong Kong. (Actually, CX is still trying to get this rule changed back so that anyone can join, but it is unlikely that the IMMD will change their minds).

Hope this makes it clear.
Regards
PP

Could anyone explain for me the difference of O days and G days?
They are mentioned every now and then

Sh!t... they've also slightly changed the CX website. now the 1st option for the S/O entry programme says "Preference for this programme will be given to HKID holders" ....

:mad::mad::mad:

all right...

That is what it used to be and how it should stay!! :ok:

well let's take it positively, i won't be one of the iKIDS! ahahah:}

Blessing in disguise for anyone to ignorant to have worked it out for themselves.