@orangeboy and sloppyjoe
 

Thanks for the reply. Btw English is not my first language but I don't think my English is that bad to deserve a re-test. Anyway, I hope all will be well,in 6 months time as they said, but I cannot imagine being asked to pay for the fare back to HK just for the Icao English re-test.Any ideas?

Flyber, don't waste your time thinking for your f*cking crazy ticket man.. That's ridiculous.

I would more worry about the retake itself than your ticket. Besides, would it be so bad to pay for your ticket to HKG?

Put your effort and brains in the ICAO test, the ticket will come by itself.

CW

@cw
 

Thanks for the advice, I will now focus on the re-test. Maybe they have other plans on the tickets,who knows. Would someone who have done this re-test thing mind sharing the experience please.

26 March 2nd stage interview
 

Hi there,

If anyone is having 2nd stage interview in Hong Kong, please kindly pm me.

Cheers :)

well i applied for this programe 6 months ago i have 245 hours....i was never contacted?

Thanks for the Info Bond.

Happy Landings

Not correct. Pay is HKD33000 and "allowance" is HKD10000, gross HKD43000, all before tax.

i just got their info a week ago from hr and it said :

Basic Salary
SO 1st year HKD 422,040 per annum
JFO 1st year HKD 666,924 per annum

In addition, SO are eligible for hourly duty pay and is calculated on 84 credit hours per month equating to HKD 42,204 per annum.

Annual Bonus : equivalent to 1 months salary.

HK Tax : 17%

HK Allowances : HKD 10,000 per month

Spitfire88
You’re assuming you do 84 hours per month. Because of the nature of Ultra Long Haul flying, it is almost impossible to roster you for exactly 84 hours per month. The company also doesn’t like paying overtime which kicks in above 84 hours so they generally will roster you for less than 84 hours. You also don’t accrue HDP while you’re on leave and when you’re sick.
It is an “Annual Discretionary Bonus” with emphasis on the word “Discretionary”. The company doesn’t and hasn’t in the past paid this bonus.
Multiply this x2 for your first year to cover Provisional Tax, i.e. 34%.
How far do you think HK$10000 will go in paying for a place to rent in Hong Kong?

Re: Housing etc

Ok, this is a mixture of opinion and facts, but it's all coming from someone living what you all seem to want to aspire to and are realities for most living here on these new terms. Take from it what you want.

If you are a westerner you will have a massive shock finding anything liveable for the amount they are offering as a package, all the way up the ladder.

Basically, for the absolute bare minimum accommodation most young, single professionals would want to live in in HK it's going to cost much, much more than this (fully taxable) allowance, and probably most of your salary as well. Somewhere local, and as cheap and as dull as it gets, like Tung Chung you're looking at 15k upwards for a shoebox for the privilege or breathing in some of the ****tiest air on the planet. DB, Gold Coast etc, a little more. The closer to town you get it goes up exponentially. Fancy living in town in an apartment where you can't touch both walls with your outstretched arms? Well you can't, almost certainly, ever. Unless you fancy sharing with two or three buddies, which I assure you gets very tiring very quickly, when you move your wives over etc (which you will!)

Realistically, you are spending <50% of your GROSS (dont forget 30% tax first year either... struggling yet?) every month filling someone elses pockets, just to live in a place you can stomach, so forget about ever buying a place here that you would ever actually want to live in. Look at typical buying prices and mortgage rates etc and do the sums. And be honest with yourself; factor in things like kids and a wife eventually, and the bigger place you will need. It's all well and good saying "Well i'll plan to save xx here and then I'll save xxx here and have xxxxx by JFO etc". Quite practically, if you have no other savings, rich parents etc you will never be able to do this. Hong Kong is an incredibly expensive place and living like a student, in a small apartment, I just about manage to save a few thousand HK$ a month. Is this worth moving away from your friends, family and all you hold dear for? Throw in a useless P2X rating and the privilege of babysitting the a/p for 8 hours at a time in the middle of the night over the north pole for 4 years? Close yet?

The reality is that as your wages go up, the chances are that your overall living costs ( rent, insurance, electricity rates etc) and your family commitments will too, at a faster rate. For example, Cathay will tell you that they pay upto 90% of your school fees, but they won't tell you that some schools, clubs etc require things like debentures (Google them), which they won't cover, and you won't be able to afford to. They also won't say it's practically impossible these days getting your kids into a school where you actually want them to go, when you want them to go. Say the only school you can get them into happens to be in, say, Clearwater Bay, but you live in DB. And you can't afford to live in Clearwater Bay. Or drive a car because you live in DB. Do you start to see the endless problems you will encounter living here without any money in your pocket?

To be completely honest the only guys I know that are truly happy here on local terms fall into one of three categories; Those with strong family ties to Hong Kong/Cathay; those who, for whatever reason, are money no object; and those who just can't wait to tell everybody they know they fly for CX and put pictures of "The Office " on Facebook. Everybody else is passing through, myself included. It is in no way a career airline under these terms. It would be literally financial suicide to do so. There are many good things about working, and especially starting your career here. I won't deny that. But the simple truth is that the longer you are here the more you will resent the deal you took because you are getting more and more short changed by the day and with the recent rewriting of contracts to many different groups of cadets, I am not of the opinion that this will feeling improve any time soon. I made the decision to come here. I am still not exactly sure whether it was the right one and I do accept that nobody forced me to sign the contract. However, if I had a crystal ball, or researched it more thoroughly you could argue, then I probably wouldn't have. But who knows?

If you have very few other options available to you then by all means have a look and make your own mind up but what I present to you are the realities a lot of guys are facing. They are disillusioned with life in HK, are unhappy and looking elsewhere, especially those with decent, DESO'esque hours. If you have options, especially at home, then I would strongly urge you to to stay, because, based on all of the above, why do you really want to come here?

Buyer beware!

Aviation Mathematics (60 min)
 

Hello everyone,

I spent a whole week going through this thread from page one. It was worth it. There is a tremendous amount of info here about the company, life in Hong Kong, interviews etc.

I have questions to those who did the 2nd stage interview very recently. Is the test they call "aviation mathematics" 30 or 60 minutes? I read in older posts about the math test where it was clearly stated that this test had not much to do with aviation, so don't expect glide slope, convergency and PNR calculations. They also wrote that the test was 30 minutes and had 33 questions. My second stage invitation states a 60 min limit for this test. Did they change the time limit to one hour to make it easier or harder with more questions? Or is it maybe a different test for AE candidates, really involving actual aviation mathematics?
Thank you
J

hi, I'm new to this forum and just applied the CX cadet program. I have read through alot of forums about the CX cadet interview but I still got a little confused about the application screening. I have no flying experiences, should I expect no chance that I will get contact for the interview? in other words, they actually will only contact people who already have flying experiences? if so, in order to pass the application screening, i should at least get the ICAO test passed and get some flying experiences? is this correct? thanks for any replies and taking time to view my message.

Yatsuki

If you hold a permanent hong kong identity card then they may call you for an interview.

If you do not hold a permanent hong kong identity card then you do not meet the requirements as do not hold a CPL/IR

You need to get flying experience if you are not a permanent resident of hong kong.

Thank you for your quick reply, SloppyJoe!:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

This really relief my nervous a bit, I've been stressing out to get prepared for the interview since I applied for the program. btw, did you go through the cadet program before? if so, can you tell me anything that helps for the interview? again, thank you for your reply!

.
 

Hi all.

I applied for the SO program on 05/2011 and still haven't heard anything from Cathay.

Could any of you guys advise on this! is it normal to wait for an application for that long or maybe I just don't meet the requirements.

Any guys from the UK applied mid last year and still waiting please update me.

Thank you all

I applied in April 2010 without experience and never received a call back.

Now I have 240 hours and started to fill in the online application form, but I didn´t completely finished it. Every time I try to login it says the system is currently unavailable, but this is already for 2 months??

I sent them an email and gave them a call, but they don´t respond. Does anyone has have had them problem before...?

Thanks:ok:

.
 

Hi,

I've been having problem in updating my application like some other guys on this forms.

when i first applied, i hold JAR Frozen ATPL TT 500hrs and now i cant even update my application and so far no news from cathay.


Thanks

As I was reading previous posts, specifically the very recent ones, I saw some people already got the news about their stage 2 interview date is already confirmed in March, 2012 and yet I just applied on March, 4th, 2012. Is that mean that I'm already late for this quarter and I should expect a longwait on the response for my initial interview if my application is passed?

Also, people who already passed the stage 1 interview, can you guys share some information about your interview experience? thank you :)

CPP final interview on 23 April
 

Hi guys,

I am new in here. Anyone has CPP final interview on 23 April in Hong Kong?

If yes, please, leave a message and contact.

Thank You

Thanks for the reply mate:ok:
I actually called Cathay and the sweet voiced lady told me the application screening might take up to 3~8months for them to reply the applicants :eek: *stunned* anyway, I would just go get some more hours during this period of time :)

And good luck to those who will do the final interview in April!:D:D:D:D:D

Stage 2 Interview in March
 

Anyone got stage 2 interview in March ??

@yatsuki:
I'm not surprised considering the amount of applications they receive everyday. I applied for an interview in Hong Kong, and they called back 3 months after. I would expect oversea applicants to take longer.

@Sp0r3

Yeah, I think they recieved tons of applications everyday, poor applications screening staff orz

I also put HK as my primary interview location since I think it would be faster to get contact from them:cool: After reading your post, I would expect about 3 months or so

So what stage are you up to now?

Haha. Right on.

I came across Cpt. Underpant's post on Page 158 outlining the entire "loan" structure.

Now what if, and God forbid, the pilot fails during his grading/checks - does he/she owe CX such a staggering amount?

Aviation Math
 

So has anyone found out anything about the new "aviation math" as opposed to the old 33 questions 30 mins math?

Clish -

I don't think there will ever be an answer to your question. Neither has it been answered in the past, if I'm not mistaken, considering I've gone through the 190 odd pages of this thread at a brisk pace.

Smurf

Out of curiosity, I've tried to find out but no one seems to know as its yet to happen (to an iCadet).

Cathay will endevour to get every S/O in the system through the training, using its considerable resources as they need bums in seats.

Deliberately failing (in order to escape the contract) would undoubtedly be vigorously pursued.

In the unlikely event that someone fails miserably to meet the standard (which have dropped considerably over the years, fwiw) I'm certain the financial side will be dealt with in typical CX (admin) fashion, with threats and intimidation, testing (and breaking) the limits of the law in a somewhat reactionary fashion until some sort of statutory boundary is enforced by an external agency.

This will be followed by an enforced amendment by CX (in a draconian manner, of course) to all icadets contracts to cover themselves. It's how they work. 100% reactionary.

In the past, LEPs (the acronym for our local - Chinese - cadet scheme) who failed, simply left. Some left flying entirely, some went to the CAD, some to GFS, others to other airlines in HKG...without having to reimburse CX. As far as know, CX never attempted to recover the cost of training as there was no bond.

That was before some "genius" thought up this forgivable loan idea. As you've been "loaned" the money, both from a contractual perspective and as far as the IRD are concerned (they are taxing the entire amount of the loan - in one lump, btw) I would imagine that CX have some sort of legal right to attempt recovery of the dough. Whether they actually succeed is the question. Time will tell.

Nice guys they are not. Caveat emptor.

could u please elaborate how standards have dropped? entry requirements you mean or eventual line flying SOs are of lower standards?

By standards I assume Underpants was referring to the recruitment process, entry requirements and some of the line flying SOs (not all, mind you).

If you have read 200 pages of this thread, you would learn that the pilots from the subcontinent have come under a barrage of criticism from the skippers/FOs (mainly the Poms/Yanks/Aussies) presently working with CX Needless to say, there are instances (associated with airlines in India) which provide substantial proof to their theories. However, there may be many rotten eggs. But not all are.

During my training for a PPL in a flight school down under, before I got my first solo, I came across a Grade 2 flying instructor (No, he wasn't from the subcontinent) and I asked him the course of action that should be taken when the static source failed (in a C152 that had no alternate static source). He didn't know what to say and conveniently walked away. Now, that's just one of them. Not all. Today, he would definitely want to get into Cathay's SO programme (maybe he is in it already), and if I ever saw him, I wouldn't judge him based on that question that got him knocked out 2 years ago.

Many of you would right away put your bet on blokes from the subcontinent when it comes to low standards. But I wouldn't generalize this case with all Indian pilots. Here's the bitter truth - There are nearly 6000 commercial pilots with 200+ hours unemployed in India at the moment. I repeat, 'many' of them took it up just for the money and lifestyle overpowering their passion for flying which would directly affect their basic knowledge. Maybe two-thirds of them (including myself) were trained in UK, Australia, New Zealand, USA, South Africa and Canada. There isn't much of GA happening in India. Not too many flight schools either. Unfortunately, I assume only a third of that alarming figure of 6000 would be employed with the airlines in the next 10-15 years. The rest would take up other jobs/businesses and move on. But these are desperate times for Indian pilots, and I agree not every one of us would fit the bill. I'd be a moron if I said we wouldn't take any opportunity that comes our way.

Cathay Pacific came to India (owing to the huge number of applications received) this year for the first time. According to reports, 77 qualified pilots were called for the advanced entry initial interview. Now these 77 pilots have to go through the same selection process as is conducted for pilots in the UK, USA, Australia, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand. There are some who fail and some who pass. The pilots who passed must have definitely met the standards set by Cathay Pacific (whether the standards of recruitment have gone down or not is not our headache). But the road doesn't end there. We still have to pass the written test and final interview. Wait, there's still flight grading and more checks (again, whether CX is not too strict about it is not our headache).

Cpt. Underpants and others on the same boat, with all due respect, I understand your frustration on Cathay's recruitment drive in the subcontinent and our pilots falling prey to the hidden terms and conditions of the airline (looting taxes, poor housing allowance, low salaries) which I assume would affect you. Yes, I've done a bit of reading on John Warham's 49ers. Maybe you and another 48 skippers/officers should take up this issue with the management. We have no fallback option but to apply for the Second Officer programme with some of the airlines. As for Cathay Pacific, we may not pass the test. But we are certainly hardworking and we will try again to earn that position. For the love of God, don't write us off. This is a learning curve and we get to learn from you. I'm sure you followed it too with years of training and on-the-job experience. Many of us are as good as some of the junior-level pilots from other countries. Neither is India's safety record as bad as you think it is compared to other parts of the world. I'm not making a mockery of my opinion, but there maybe a few hiccups. Hiccups that can be dealt with.

I reckon this has been discussed before, but I hope I haven't taken my views to another level which would result in an air of animosity towards each other.

boxer

I mean just that: I'm flying with S/O's and F/O's who even 10 years ago, would not have met the standard (then) and certainly would not have remained employed by CX. Read a thread on FH about a current Airbus S/O as an example.

Yeah. I read that post on the SO that seemed to have gone through the cracks. That is indeed shocking considering the nature of the interviews and flight grading processes. Sim assessments and base checks too. But I believe it's also what used to be a very small pool of pilots in the old days required for a very exclusive job, airline expansion has resulted in having to fill seats in cockpits. Ad opposed to getting above average, it slants towards meeting 'minimum standards' with potential to make captain. That's subjective for obvious reasons. Somethings gotta give.

Transition Training
 

Hi there,

Can anyone give me any leads for the Interview for CX Transition Training program?

PM me... plz..

Hijack.

i think the math change was a relatively recent event. like... within a year? i read the rest of the thread too.. "aviation math" only came up maybe within the last 20 pages or so. Prior to that everyone was still referring to the 30mins 33question "unfinishable" math test

Unfinishable
 

What kind of math was asked in that unfinishable 33 ques exams.. Av math are just mostly conversions, estimates and measurements.

I dont think anyone actually said what type of math it was.. but simply saying that "if you know how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide" you will be fine. they say it is unfinishable because the questions are so long that you can possible read and finish them all within the time limit.

When you say AV math is just mostly conversion, estimates, and measurements.... are you talking about the cx test or what you know as AV math?

Hello
 

Im talking about av math. Anyways, if there will be any changes in the math exam considering our experience, will and shall be tolerable. I bet there wouldn't be any sin and cos in that exam.

Good luck in you exam and interview and hoping for you to update us what is in it for us the math exam and the whole process of the application.

Cheers!

The Maths test is finishable...

A few 866x432+32/0.02

99x9.9x0.99

1/2 + 1/3 + 1/4 x0.5

If you travel 160km South 120km east how many km home

If you travel 060 for 180km then 120 for 160km what heading home

You need to clear an obstacle 10nm away by 1000' that is 5000' high - what's the gradient?

On 3degree slope at 5nm what height

That's about the jist of the transition type questions... Maybe others can fill in gaps. I finished and had time to go back over it... But I left 3 questions I didn't know how to do them short. Practice fractions... Moving decimals... 1in60 shorthand pythagoras... Gradients etc. I wasn't confident I got the right answers, but I would of been there or thereabouts... I think that's the key. Your only required to be within 10% so don't be shy on rounding.

Whoa that seems much harder than the old one. Do u have hours?

Thank God (sic) my S/O can answer those q's for me.

Wait. Is it still mc