For International Cadets.

[Jumbo744]

Rhodes, Epasz

EPASZ,

thanks, I understand what you mean. I see your point. So again it comes down to personnal preferences and choices wether to get in this program or not.

RHODES, you are absolutely right! you mentionned some of the reasons why I decided to leave the process in Adelaide.

Again, it does not mean that a right or wrong decision exists about getting in. It all depends on YOUR situation.

Think well, and if you think this program is meant for you then work hard and do your best! CX is a great airline of course, the staff are really nice and the cadets are super nice, so you will enjoy it !

[vaibhav]

well said mate !!!!!!!

[CPP2009]

At the end of the day its a job and a poor paying one for an expat considering what you could make as a DESO

Quite a gamble as someone wrote earlier - To pay for it all yourself and still think that not only will you get a GA/Jet job to get CX DESO Minimum hours but to think that you will also make it onto the course when you consider the competition......

....If/When there is another DESO course???

My fellow cadets and I are of two parties - Either we can not afford the training costs and/or we are not prepared to gamble if we do.

Is there anyone out there that can please just accept this basic Math? Perhaps even lend some encouragement and support to cadets who are training, where after graduation will want to know it was all worth it rather than being considered sell-outs?

[vaibhav]

well just one quick question .. how will CX contact you ... via e-mail or phone for your first round of the interviews .. I just applied 6 days ago was wondering if I will be called for the interview which is going to be held in Sydney at end of this month ..I read it in other threads ..

please let me know ..

:-) thanks guys

[holdmetight]

CPP2009

i'm not quite sure why cadets would/can be seen as "sell-outs". it is just another path towards the big dream, isn't it?

[CPP2009]

That is what I thought. But 7 pages appears to say otherwise.

[vaibhav]

well just one quick question .. how will CX contact you ... via e-mail or phone for your first round of the interviews .. I just applied 6 days ago was wondering if I will be called for the interview which is going to be held in Sydney at end of this month ..I read it in other threads ..

please let me know ..

:-) thanks guys "

anyone :-)

[holdmetight]

That is what I thought. But 7 pages appears to say otherwise.

i don't think anyone here is against the existence of the cadet program or the mentality of current/ex-cadets, for that matter. i, for one, certainly don't see myself as a sell-out to all the DE pilots, and i am an aspiring cadet. it all depends on what is best for yourself.

i'd say the arguments in these 7 pages are about people not exercising thorough consideration prior to applying for the program.

[CPP2009]

Holdmetight,

i'd say the arguments in these 7 pages are about people not exercising thorough consideration prior to applying for the program

The way things are written and the assumptions that these arguments are based on leads me to believe that there is something a little deeper. I could quote unquote the proof of this but it appears Triplespool has done it for me.

There just seems to be a little bit more animosity and despair from the likes of Espaz and Titan404 towards the scheme and for the life of me, I just can't see where this originates from.

P.s Vaibav - we thank you for your support on each post raised. Perhaps you could stop it now?

[vaibhav]

hey CPP i have sent you a PM thanks for your co-operation ...

thanks

[Rhodes13]

cp2009 not knowing titan404 I cant speak on behalf of him but perhaps the reason he is speaking the way he his is because he knows of what he speaks?

Perhaps as has been said before this is a deal that is to be considered but too many people in here are ignoring the salient negative points put to them by others? It is human nature to only hear what you want to hear but I bet you anything that those same people on here that are seeing the cadet scheme through rose tinted glasses will be the same people on pprune in a few years bitching how bad it is at CX and to stay away!

Have you asked yourself what you are going to do if the company wins the court case in relation to BPP? What will happen if you stagnate as a SO as the conpany employs DEFO over the top of you and now your time to upgrade blows out? No pay rises on the horizon. You dont have the option of at least having them pay for your medical, housing and schooling nope thats all up to you. Can't move to a base as they are all jammed up at the moment and more importantly cant move to any other airline in the world as no one recognises SO time.

So now you are stuck what do you do now? Grin and bear it?

Being a cynic ask yourself why CX has opted for this scheme in a time of a massive unemployment of pilots? Do you think its a lovely way to lock in cheap labour that will effectively be indentured to the company for the better part of a decade?

Then we have people saying that this is the only way in and that going any other way is at best a huge risk. Welcome to the world of aviation! As a career its massively risky, cadets could fail the course (30 percent failure rate as quoted before) or once on line you could fail your line or sim checks and god forbid you lose your medical over something trivial and then have to fight and fight for it back. This is before we even mention the hugely cyclical nature of the idustry which has already seen thousands and thousands of type rated guys being dumped onto the market in NA and europe!

Youre on the course and Im happy for you, its lovely to hit the toga button on the threshhold and see the world slide beneath you at FL380 but please dont let the initial euphoria of passing cloud your judgement of how and why this has been created! Remember at the end of the day its just a job.

Please lets have some realism here not fantasies theres to much of that already!

[CPP2009]

Rhodes,

I hate to come here and quote other people but whilst T123's reception was ill-received due to his manner of his posts, I can but only quote them as they do make good points.

And whilst we are on the subject of "manners" and "tone" of posts, I see his posts completely on-par with the way Espaz, T404 have conducted themselves.

Rhodes, you said:

cp2009 not knowing titan404 I cant speak on behalf of him but perhaps the reason he is speaking the way he his is because he knows of what he speaks?

Perhaps as has been said before this is a deal that is to be considered but too many people in here are ignoring the salient negative points put to them by others?

Once again, I can only quote from T123. The very first post that started this thread was nothing but blogging and a well-put Letter-to-the-Editor, as has been said.

Fair enough, if the first post was, "My name is XXX and I am so thankful that I am on this course. I will have women falling at my feet and have flash cars and shed-loads of money", then yes!! Please-lets hear all the contradictory posts.

But that was not the first post. The first post as has been stated gave no advice whatsoever and was said in a very ill-manner.

Let us also not ignore the geeky research T123 did by looking at the posts of said members and the threads they contributed to from July or June whatever it was. The record indeed does seem to have been on repeat since then and those threads in question once again were not threads based on prospective cadets asking for advice. They really were nothing but musings, ranting and just purely negative feelings that do indeed betray the fact that there may be a hidden agenda.

Fair enough, the likes of FL999 does step on my point somewhat, but again I feel those type of responses are like T123's - simply based on the way certain senior members on here have conducted themselves.

Am I missing something here because I am just so so lost as to why the likes of T404 and Espaz care so much?. Is there something I should know about? Are CPP cadets negatively affecting you in ways that makes you come here and spend copious amounts of effort in presenting your case? Why is there such disdain against the course or the cadets?

Rhodes, all those negative aspects you mentioned like losing a medical, failing exams is found in every airline.

[FL999]

FL999 you seem to have everything planned out but have you considered the possibility of what happens when things dont turn out as planned as they tend to always do?

yes i have thought about that. There are however things that you can control. Im definitely young enough to control the fact that getting married and having children will not be an issue anytime soon. Mind you im not 15. Im an adult and ive been in the working world for a while now. Until now I have been able to focus on my priorities while living life to its max. As mentioned by CPP2009 some people simply cannot afford to go self-sponsored. Im one of those. I live in a country where the standard of living simply isnt high enough to be able to save up to go private. I did the math earlier. If I saved my monthly salary(all of it) id need to save for 20 years to get the budget required. Obviously with promotion and salary increases decrease that to 10-15. You will understand that this is not an option. I have lived in very bad conditions in the past and know what it is. Dont worry, I dont live an expensive lifestyle. I live a very simple life and will do with the local way of life in HK no problems. I am young enough and ready to make the required sacrifices for the first 6-7 years of my career. If thats what it takes to get started it wont be a problem. Once you get into your thirties and things still havent changed then decisions will have to be made. until then I am not worried. There are simply not enough opportunities out there to disregard this one. Especially for someone in my situation. As I said it all depends on your background, your motivation and your current situation. My situation is simple so no problems there.

If the scheme is really that bad i reckon things will change in the future. Honestly, why would CX pay hundreds of thousands of dollars on training cadets if its to put them in the jumpseat for 10 years which would eventually force them to leave? I just dont understand the logic. Maybe someone can explain.

[vaibhav]

hey cpp 2009 .. i have sent you a PM if you dont mind please reply thanks

vaibhav dattani
wannabe CX - CPP
P.S= Very Very Very Well Said ....!!!!!!!!!

[Triplespool123]

CPP2009,

I gave up 3 pages ago so give up and stop wasting your breath.

There is a hidden agenda and it is sooooooo obvious what it is yet the prruners that have come on here with their unwanted and 'never asked for remarks' are not brave enough to actually say what is really bugging them. Fear?

Anyway, congratulations on getting on the course and GOOD LUCK when it comes to working for these so-called professionals.

I've realised something! Its not the lack of housing allowance that has put me off-its you guys! Well, at least you turned someone off!

[vaibhav]

FL999 .. i share your pain mate .. cannot afford to go self sponsored ... coming from a country where not many opportunities lie .. will have to save up for a lifetime to go private .. and once again ...

" simple living , high thinking " - Mahatma Gandhi.

I still can survive on 500 AUD per month in melbourne, if I want to. If the time comes and i get selected to the CX CPP. I will be more than happy with what I get . Grab this once in a lifetime opportunity.

"And make hay with whatever sunshine is there in my life " - haha .. thats me.

Yet again I just turned 20 .. and i have a long way to go and nothing to tie me down.

Vaibhav Dattani
CX-CPP Wannabe
Cheers

[Rhodes13]

CP2009 I see your point but my readings of 404 show a person that has taken the time and effort to show potential cadets different ways of looking at things instead of the constant rose tinted view. Perhaps he comes on here because I assume he has been in CX for a long time and knows how the company works and what to expect. Something the vast majority of others dont.

Most of the guys applying here have little to no experience of airliners or indeed CX. I would have thought that all points are to be considered as unfortunately the negatives have to be weighed out against the positives.

In regards to losing medicals etc true they happen in all airlines and all I was simply pointing out that this is an incredibly risky business to be in. This was in response to someone else saying that they were not prepared to gamble on the DESO route. What I was trying to put across perhaps not so well is that even getting into the course is no guarantee of a job.

The case for the posting by the likes of 404 are strengthened when people start saying they can happily live on 500 aud a month, where they dont mind about the no housing allowance etc and where they have clearly been led down the garden path and have based their maths off the wrong figures. We then also have the situation where people honestly believe they can plan their lives 5 years from now and can categorically say they will not get married (maybe you should have a word with my girlfriend )

These types of posting lead one to believe people are being grossly naive in applying for this course. I dont know your personal situation but you seem intelligent enough to have taken everything on board, perhaps the posts were aimed at certain people who have to be told several times before they will learn? As to the perceived negativity perhaps that has to do with the broader industrial situation going on within the company at the moment? Reading the boards there seem to be many fires the company are trying to put out at the moment.

As for spending copious time here well thats what stanbys are for LOL. I've got nothing better to do. As to you affecting me well yes you are as your courses are being placed ahead of DESO's sitting in the hold pool waiting for a start date. I certainly dont feel any disdain towards yourself though, you are after all looking after yourself which is what I would do in the same situation. All I am trying to do is point out the negatives as I see them. As to the course well as a good friend said to me this stinks of massive short term thinking. Someones bonus is going to be looking very healthy this year. One day when you guys all get sick and tired of seeing the other expat SO's earning a lot more for the same job you might start to be bitter, and when eventually you start to look at leaving which you will eventually, then this is going to bite CX in the ass!

Question for vaibhab you say you are 20, have you actually been to HK? Have you seen how much things are over there? Whilst some things are cheaper the vast majority of food is more expensive. I also remember when I was 20 and getting by on a pittance, but in a few short years my needs changed massively. Statements such as I can survive on 500 AUD a month dont give you any credence. And please tone down the ass kissing mate, it makes you look desperate as does the wannabe cx monkier. Please just chill out mate.

FL999 its all well and good saying you have planned for the unforeseen but by definition you cant plan for that. I can tell you that last year I planned to be at CX and now Im not, now Im frantically trying to plan other things but life has a way of throwing curve balls at you. As to why this scheme was created I belive I answered that before, dont honestly think CX give a crap about you as you are a number plain and simple and as a number you represent a cost saving over hiring DESO thats a fact. Whilst this cost saving is great now when people start leaving in droves is when it will bite them. Look at recent past examples of companies acting in the short term for maximum profit but for a long term loss!

[FL999]

FL999 its all well and good saying you have planned for the unforeseen but by definition you cant plan for that. I can tell you that last year I planned to be at CX and now Im not, now Im frantically trying to plan other things but life has a way of throwing curve balls at you. As to why this scheme was created I belive I answered that before, dont honestly think CX give a crap about you as you are a number plain and simple and as a number you represent a cost saving over hiring DESO thats a fact. Whilst this cost saving is great now when people start leaving in droves is when it will bite them. Look at recent past examples of companies acting in the short term for maximum profit but for a long term loss!

Im not saying ive planned for everything that may or may not happen. Just that Id rather put all the chances on my side and take every opportunity that I can so that in the future I dont regret that I didnt take that road because some guy told me that I will most probably get married when im 25 and have kids which would basically make me go bankrupt with a divorce case. No offense mate but id rather stay positive. I am very well aware of the negative sides and I am in no case disputing the points put here by you and the others. Working as an SO for CX CANNOT be as bad as my current situation. Even if after 5 years I decide to leave and do something else the time spent doing that job will most certainly be better than doing the job im currently in. Ive got nothing to lose so to speak. ive also lived in Aus for a year and know what it is count your pennies. It cant be much worse than what ive already experienced. I appreciate your advice and concerns as well as the advice of the others but as I said, I can only go up from where I stand. Anyway, unless i actually get a call from darn CX all this jibber jabber is useless. ive applied in June btw and still havent heard from them. Got the 'geographical location ' bla bla when I tried to contact them. Im not holding my breath, life goes on for me but when (if) the opportunity shows up again I will take it.

[CPP2009]

Rhodes13,

Well Said!!! (only joking)

No seriously, that was a great reply and if you were one of the people here that wrote in a tone that was purely negative, at least I could see a reason because you are being by-passed by the likes of CPP.

But like you said, you aren't even looking at us negatively and I thank you for that. However I do fear - from the proof of posts previous- that there others who do have this alterior motive for such forceful views, and they are the ones I'd also like to hear from.

Earlier, you mentioned something about the court case against BPP (something I will read up on) but you mentioned about not having them pay for Medical and housing.

From Cos1, medical is paid for all officers and their dependants. Or am I completely wrong here. Surely medical fees are paid for or the risk would be far too high as someone could go bankcrupt if they needed an x-ray on even a broken wrist?

[FL999]

Statements such as I can survive on 500 AUD a month dont give you any credence

I used to live on less than that in Aus. THough that wasnt including rent which would increase that figure considerably. But for general expenses 500-600 is not too bad. Its just a matter of lifestyle.

Quote:
Summary: Realistic Monthly Table of Expenses for a family of four.

HK$ (/mth).....
Tax 5,700
Rent 16,000 (minimum 3 bedroom 1000 ft²)
Utils 4,700
Public Trans 1,000
Food 13,000
Misc 4,500
Total 44,900

now lets correct for a young single guy like me. So, lets say tax stays the same and rent reduces to about 12-14000 for a 2 bedroom. Utilities would also decrease id say by half or more, but ill keep it half, Public transport wouldnt be as much for one person i suppose, food would be divided by at least 3 + misc at say 2500. Thats a total of roughly 28,000. Lets round it off to 30,000. That means theres still bout 3,400 to spare from the FIRST year SO salary. I think that considering your studies and training have been paid in total and that you basically have no debt(correct me if im wrong, i dont know how the loan system works for the CPP) and have money left, i think its a fair deal. Until you get to JFO its fair I reckon. No dramas. Theres just one thing thats bothering me. Is that SO payscale corrected for training loan fees like for Etihad? If those 33,000 are scaled down even more THEN that might be a problem even for a single guy.

Nevertheless theres no doubt that the SO payscale would be a problem for people who already have families. CX has probably taken that into account. Maybe they actually want young guys with no strings attached or something, I dont really know. Maybe simply cheap labour. That one may backfire at some point though. it certainly will if the economy recovers and job openings increase. People will leave and then theyll have to review their practices. until then though, we just have to hang in there and not just let go. Who knows what the future has in store for us. things may get better and those who have jumped in will bear the fruits of their sacrifices while those who chose not to take the risk will find themselves drowning in regret. it may also go the other way but you gotta at least try. If you're young and single with no strings attached I dont know why you shouldnt give it a go