BALPA against ID Cards - TUC Congress
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Sorry but that's not how it's working...Initially new pass applicants will need to provide one purely as Identity proof for their airside pass. It will not be required to be carried by any airport staff or shown at any security point.
As a security pass of any kind the National ID is of no use whatsoever.
As I say the fight goes on.......At least I won't give in with a whimper of inevitability....
The problem with all of this is the Data base that goes with it....It was also made clear by the Home office that the first cards would be a prototype. Linking of everything you do to your NID will follow. Everything you do will be tracked by the Government. Any Government now or future can use that information for whatever they please. They have already stated that they will sell certain information for commercial purposes......
As a security pass of any kind the National ID is of no use whatsoever.
As I say the fight goes on.......At least I won't give in with a whimper of inevitability....
The problem with all of this is the Data base that goes with it....It was also made clear by the Home office that the first cards would be a prototype. Linking of everything you do to your NID will follow. Everything you do will be tracked by the Government. Any Government now or future can use that information for whatever they please. They have already stated that they will sell certain information for commercial purposes......
Here is the link to the BBC Any Questions programme:
BBC - Radio 4 - Any Questions?
ID Cards are discussed about 40.15 mins in.
Whislt we are on the subject why has BALPA not published a press release about the TUC resolution? It was quite a coup for them - you would think they'd be proud of it!
BBC - Radio 4 - Any Questions?
ID Cards are discussed about 40.15 mins in.
Whislt we are on the subject why has BALPA not published a press release about the TUC resolution? It was quite a coup for them - you would think they'd be proud of it!
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Would anyone contributing to this thread be prepared to refuse to hold a UKID card?
After the TUC conference, I would hope that some work is being carried out to organise an industry wide response to this issue, but I imagine it will come down to a choice and it will be the individual putting at risk, their employment.
After the TUC conference, I would hope that some work is being carried out to organise an industry wide response to this issue, but I imagine it will come down to a choice and it will be the individual putting at risk, their employment.
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Would anyone contributing to this thread be prepared to refuse to hold a UKID card?
What it probably needs is for every airport to have a collection centre where people can dump their ID card application paperwork when it's received, so that a big visible pile of evidence that others are refusing the cards can help inspire the ones who are nervous about doing it.
Would anyone contributing to this thread be prepared to refuse to hold a UKID card?
Assuming the Tories stick to their word (and lets face it politicians always do!) it doesn't matter anyway because they will scrap the system when (not if) they win the next election.
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call100 wrote:
Sorry but that's not how it's working...Initially new pass applicants will need to provide one purely as Identity proof for their airside pass. It will not be required to be carried by any airport staff or shown at any security point.
This is the bit where we part in our views I think - I just can't see it stopping here. I'm sure that because airports are private property, the guard forces will be instructed to check the ID cards to verify the airside passes. It'll be done randomly and while you are not compelled to do it, refusal will lead to your airside pass being withdrawn.
I'm confident this will be the case eventually.
I'm emigrating because I really can't stand what has happened in this country any more - it's so ******* obvious to me yet seems to allude millions of others. So long as Joe Schmoo has cheap credit, a new car every two years and a 42' plasma telly - he's happy that he is making progress in his miserable little existance, he's happy to sell his soul down the river for whatever reason he's told by the powers that be. Given the present economic and security situation we face, perhaps Joe is waking up to what he's signed up for, as if it really matters though, the damage has already been done.
I'd go so far as to say that anyone who signs up to these miserable cards is a collaborator, strong words yes but you legitimise all that is wrong with the way we are governed today.
I despise and pity the future you are signing up for if you take one of these cards.
Sorry but that's not how it's working...Initially new pass applicants will need to provide one purely as Identity proof for their airside pass. It will not be required to be carried by any airport staff or shown at any security point.
This is the bit where we part in our views I think - I just can't see it stopping here. I'm sure that because airports are private property, the guard forces will be instructed to check the ID cards to verify the airside passes. It'll be done randomly and while you are not compelled to do it, refusal will lead to your airside pass being withdrawn.
I'm confident this will be the case eventually.
I'm emigrating because I really can't stand what has happened in this country any more - it's so ******* obvious to me yet seems to allude millions of others. So long as Joe Schmoo has cheap credit, a new car every two years and a 42' plasma telly - he's happy that he is making progress in his miserable little existance, he's happy to sell his soul down the river for whatever reason he's told by the powers that be. Given the present economic and security situation we face, perhaps Joe is waking up to what he's signed up for, as if it really matters though, the damage has already been done.
I'd go so far as to say that anyone who signs up to these miserable cards is a collaborator, strong words yes but you legitimise all that is wrong with the way we are governed today.
I despise and pity the future you are signing up for if you take one of these cards.
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You are right in one respect it will change in the future. However, the law will have to be changed to enable anyone else to demand your card.....Even the Police.....It will not be required for airside access as it will have been produced for the application.. Your scenario where it will be up to the individual airport will not happen.
You are missing the point that the card is nothing to do with airports, airlines, airside workers etc. etc. It's about starting off the whole scheme. with as little objection as possible.
I can't blame you for emigrating if you are able...UK PLC is in need of a drastic kicking to get it back on track.
llondel
You hit on another point of the aviation worker requirement..It takes away your right to individual protest to some extent. If Joe Blogs at the local Butchers in the future refuses to apply for a NID along with the millions of others who will refuse he keeps his job.
Should you refuse you will be denied an airside pass, therefore forfeiting your job..
Blatant discrimination of the aviation workforce...
The national advertising campaign will start soon. It will try to allay any fears with Government Spin.....Watch out for them..For heavens sake don't fall for them.
You are missing the point that the card is nothing to do with airports, airlines, airside workers etc. etc. It's about starting off the whole scheme. with as little objection as possible.
I can't blame you for emigrating if you are able...UK PLC is in need of a drastic kicking to get it back on track.
llondel
You hit on another point of the aviation worker requirement..It takes away your right to individual protest to some extent. If Joe Blogs at the local Butchers in the future refuses to apply for a NID along with the millions of others who will refuse he keeps his job.
Should you refuse you will be denied an airside pass, therefore forfeiting your job..
Blatant discrimination of the aviation workforce...
The national advertising campaign will start soon. It will try to allay any fears with Government Spin.....Watch out for them..For heavens sake don't fall for them.
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call100 wrote:
Your scenario where it will be up to the individual airport will not happen.
You are missing the point that the card is nothing to do with airports, airlines, airside workers etc. etc.
I have no faith or belief that this will be the case call100, I really don't. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying I just don't trust those involved in this process.
These places are private property, therefore they can do what they like, and they will. I understand they cannot compel you to do it by law but they can turn you away if you don't because they have that right. Same as the staff seach procedure now, I can refuse because I did not consent but they can refuse entry because I did not consent.
I don't think it's anything to do with the law at all, it's to do with what they want to do on their property. If they say I have to hop on one foot for 5 minutes before they let me through, what choice have I got if I want to work. It's why the security regime is different in every UK port because they've been allowed to interpret as they see fit.
I'm not that interested if it's to do with airport staff or not, that it effects me is all I'm bothered about.
I hope to be away from this stinking pit of a country before it's instigated. I never thought I'd ever say that.
Apologies if this seems a bit ranty, I just don't understand how we arrived at a point where the least qualified people to pronounce on something in our work environment have acquired so much power to impose an agenda upon the majority of good hard working people for no real quantifiable reason other than their failed experiments in multiculturalism.
How on earth is that my fault?
Why on earth did people sleepwalk into this nightmare?
Your scenario where it will be up to the individual airport will not happen.
You are missing the point that the card is nothing to do with airports, airlines, airside workers etc. etc.
I have no faith or belief that this will be the case call100, I really don't. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying I just don't trust those involved in this process.
These places are private property, therefore they can do what they like, and they will. I understand they cannot compel you to do it by law but they can turn you away if you don't because they have that right. Same as the staff seach procedure now, I can refuse because I did not consent but they can refuse entry because I did not consent.
I don't think it's anything to do with the law at all, it's to do with what they want to do on their property. If they say I have to hop on one foot for 5 minutes before they let me through, what choice have I got if I want to work. It's why the security regime is different in every UK port because they've been allowed to interpret as they see fit.
I'm not that interested if it's to do with airport staff or not, that it effects me is all I'm bothered about.
I hope to be away from this stinking pit of a country before it's instigated. I never thought I'd ever say that.
Apologies if this seems a bit ranty, I just don't understand how we arrived at a point where the least qualified people to pronounce on something in our work environment have acquired so much power to impose an agenda upon the majority of good hard working people for no real quantifiable reason other than their failed experiments in multiculturalism.
How on earth is that my fault?
Why on earth did people sleepwalk into this nightmare?
Last edited by qwertyplop; 29th Sep 2008 at 20:44.
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Thereafter, I'll bet that anytime a security operative asks you for the national ID card, despite the fact that you may already have given him/her you airside pass to pass through a barrier, and you refuse, you'll be denied entry because these places are all private property and they can stipulate what they like if you wish to proceed through.
Having said all that, I couldn't be more opposed to this scheme. As many have already said, it's not the card itself, but the data collection behind it. Read through the Act itself here - many of its provisions are truly frightening. For example, the Home Secretary can demand information, under penalty, from any person, that relates to any other person on the database. Moreover, the Act specifically authorises him to pay for that information!!! This seems more to be straight out of a Mafioso movie than a supposedly free, democratic society!
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exactly what is the purpose of forcing the aviation industry to register en-masse?
Read the latest on NO2ID:stop ID cards and the database state
As as a parent, the scheme that most worries me right now is Contact Point. The thought of my child's personal data been hacked or lost is quite appaling.
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The important thing here is can i legally refuse to register for one or can my employer force me tohave one
Just heard David Cameron on the Today programme confirm that he will cancel ID Cards, the National Identity Register and the children's database Contact Point.
If your money is on a Tory win at the next election then you can smile - just a little.
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The problem is we are told a lie to get us onboard and its a waste of money and will not inprove security. Its the big brother thing and its a slippery slope. I have nothing to hide and have lived in countries that required me to have a ID card, the difference being they did not hold all the info this one will and the people who will have access to it concerns me . And the sneak it in the back door way of getting us used to the idea.
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'Nothing to hide, nothing to fear' has led to a culture of individuals and organisations being careless with personal data whilst criminals and wrongdoers learn to cover their tracks carefully to avoid detection.
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The argument for ID cards that is based around 'if you have nothing to hide' is wrong and spells out everything that has gone wrong in the UK over the last 10 years of a labour government. If you don't agree with their point of view then they create spin to suggest that you are in fact some sort of radical lunatic.
i.e. If you don't agree with the way immigration has been handled over the last few years you are immediately branded a racist.
If you want to mention how we are pandering to muslim radicals you get slammed as anti-islamic.
If you are against the UK joining the Euro, you are said to be a Xenophobic.
I do not want an ID card because I live in a free country and I want to go about my business without the government knowing my every move and hence tax it. The ID card will not benefit me in any way shape of form, it will be used for other purposes that could in fact be of detriment to me. Forcing me to have an ID card that will not assist in security just because I work in a job that requires security clearance is political thuggery designed only to save their own reputations rather than back down.
Within 5 years of its implementation there will be a scandal from either losing all our information on a laptop because the private company hired to look after it all was inept or there will be some unscrupulous/incompetent employees caught abusing our information for either criminal or terrorist means. There will be wholesale failure much like the CSA debacle.
Why do I distrust this government so much? Because they are a lying, cheating, war mongering bunch of self obsessed hooligans.
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i.e. If you don't agree with the way immigration has been handled over the last few years you are immediately branded a racist.
If you want to mention how we are pandering to muslim radicals you get slammed as anti-islamic.
If you are against the UK joining the Euro, you are said to be a Xenophobic.
I do not want an ID card because I live in a free country and I want to go about my business without the government knowing my every move and hence tax it. The ID card will not benefit me in any way shape of form, it will be used for other purposes that could in fact be of detriment to me. Forcing me to have an ID card that will not assist in security just because I work in a job that requires security clearance is political thuggery designed only to save their own reputations rather than back down.
Within 5 years of its implementation there will be a scandal from either losing all our information on a laptop because the private company hired to look after it all was inept or there will be some unscrupulous/incompetent employees caught abusing our information for either criminal or terrorist means. There will be wholesale failure much like the CSA debacle.
Why do I distrust this government so much? Because they are a lying, cheating, war mongering bunch of self obsessed hooligans.
6
I like the bit in the act regarding required information. at 1 (7) (d) "his date and place of birth and, if he has died, the date of his death;"
Id cards for dead people.
Id cards for dead people.
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Id cards for dead people
So, yes, we are even tracked in our coffins, urns and sea burials!