BALPA against ID Cards - TUC Congress
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the children's database Contact Point.
But this is nothing new for this government and their social experimenting, dreamed up when they were sociology students in the 60s in a haze of weed and LSD. They've done this before. When they realise they can't sell their radical, social-engineering ideals to the (still largely) free-thinking adult population, they brainwash our kids by forcing schools to teach them their propaganda.
We're not heading into a big brother society - we are already there.
ID Cards will be linked, in a way that is not yet precisely clear, with the issue or renewal of your airside pass. So, no ID Card - no airside pass.
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See my previous post - they cannot do this, it would be illegal. At least under the current legislation as it stands.
My interpretation of this is that they would 'designate' an airside pass as an ID Card document. Thus, you would not be able to hold an airside pass without an ID Card.
It will be the same for passports.
I would love there to be a flaw in this position - if you can establish one.
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I personally don't have a problem owning or carrying a national ID card- why would anyone worry if they have nothing to hide? The only people who would genuinely have a problem with it clearly DO have something to hide such as criminals or illegal immigrants etc! Many countries have such a thing- in Holland you are required to carry it if you are (I believe) over fourteen.
What I DO have a problem with is having to pay for the privilege! If they want to provide me with this card, I don't have a problem carrying it. After all, I carry a wallet full of credit cards and a photo driving licence- one more won't be a problem! But I ain't paying for one!
But it certainly won't help improve security- can HMG afford to be doing this with all the associated costs at a time when the country is clearly going bust?
What I DO have a problem with is having to pay for the privilege! If they want to provide me with this card, I don't have a problem carrying it. After all, I carry a wallet full of credit cards and a photo driving licence- one more won't be a problem! But I ain't paying for one!
But it certainly won't help improve security- can HMG afford to be doing this with all the associated costs at a time when the country is clearly going bust?
"Nothing to hide nothing to fear"
Try that one on the Birmingham 6 the Guildford 4, the late Mr Menendez or Sally Murrer. Yes, it happens to white middle class Brits as well as the Irish and foreigners. Do a web search on Ms Murrer, middle class house wife and mother, part-time local journliast, bugged, arrested, strippped, kept incommunocado and so on. Not for committing a crime but for having the wrong friend.
Wake-up.
Try that one on the Birmingham 6 the Guildford 4, the late Mr Menendez or Sally Murrer. Yes, it happens to white middle class Brits as well as the Irish and foreigners. Do a web search on Ms Murrer, middle class house wife and mother, part-time local journliast, bugged, arrested, strippped, kept incommunocado and so on. Not for committing a crime but for having the wrong friend.
Wake-up.
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Yarpy:
The one flaw from the perspective of the government is if the airport workers can stand firm and overwhelmingly refuse ID cards. No card, no pass, nothing happens airside. Unions used to be good at organising large protests, this is one time where it would be nice to see them demonstrate they can still do it. After all, if everyone turns up to work with their most recent airside pass, it's going to be more like a management lockout than a strike.
You only need to hold out 18 months or so, by then we'll either have a new government or we'll be deep in the smelly stuff anyway.
I would love there to be a flaw in this position - if you can establish one.
You only need to hold out 18 months or so, by then we'll either have a new government or we'll be deep in the smelly stuff anyway.
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After all, if everyone turns up to work with their most recent airside pass, it's going to be more like a management lockout than a strike.
After the next Election, in the extremely unlikley event that New Labour are returned to power I would expect them to can the ID Cards scheme - it's just going to be too much hassle.
However . . . Expect the National Identity Register to remain - but linked to passports. This a key point. The Government are looking at changing passport legislation. Presently they are issued under the Royal Prerogative. They now want to put passports on a statutory basis. This would allow the Government to change the rules surrounding them. I.e. demand that you use the passport for other purposes.
Watch this space, as they say.
Last edited by Yarpy; 2nd Oct 2008 at 07:11.
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Mass Action
On the day of implementation we simply choose to go to work or not.
Nothing moves in UK airspace.
How long could the Govt and the economy cope with that?
If enough stay away from work the Govt perform a U-turn.
If sufficient turn up for work for safety not to affected then the Govt win.
That's democracy.
Nothing moves in UK airspace.
How long could the Govt and the economy cope with that?
If enough stay away from work the Govt perform a U-turn.
If sufficient turn up for work for safety not to affected then the Govt win.
That's democracy.
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Quote:
See my previous post - they cannot do this, it would be illegal. At least under the current legislation as it stands.
The ID Cards Act allows the Secretary of State to 'designate', by regulation, a document for the purposes of the Act.
My interpretation of this is that they would 'designate' an airside pass as an ID Card document. Thus, you would not be able to hold an airside pass without an ID Card.
It will be the same for passports.
I would love there to be a flaw in this position - if you can establish one.
See my previous post - they cannot do this, it would be illegal. At least under the current legislation as it stands.
The ID Cards Act allows the Secretary of State to 'designate', by regulation, a document for the purposes of the Act.
My interpretation of this is that they would 'designate' an airside pass as an ID Card document. Thus, you would not be able to hold an airside pass without an ID Card.
It will be the same for passports.
I would love there to be a flaw in this position - if you can establish one.
No airside pass.........
You will not be required to produce one until your ID is up for renewal or you are a new applicant.
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From Today's Observer:
ID cards plan in crisis as the 'guinea pigs' revolt
This sounds to me like a very good move indeed. I look forward to hearing mor of this on the BALPA website!
ID cards plan in crisis as the 'guinea pigs' revolt
Plans to build support for identity cards by introducing them among 'guinea pig' groups, such as airport staff and students, are in crisis after 10,000 airline pilots vowed to take legal action to block them and opposition swept through Britain's universities and councils.
In a move that could wreck the government's strategy for a phased introduction beginning next year, the British Airline Pilots Association (Balpa) said it would seek a judicial review rather than see its members forced to adopt ID cards at a time when pilots are already exhaustively vetted.
In a move that could wreck the government's strategy for a phased introduction beginning next year, the British Airline Pilots Association (Balpa) said it would seek a judicial review rather than see its members forced to adopt ID cards at a time when pilots are already exhaustively vetted.
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It's good to see that things are beginning to come together for those of us who are anti the NID card.
More is yet to be done but I think this can be defeated.
It does amaze me however, that a Government can get into such a position that it refuses to listen to the arguments and carries on regardless. They know that the apathy that runs through the British public means they can get away with it.
What is needed is mass demonstrations and calls for an immediate election. I know it won't happen but it is still the only way to get the point across.
I hope BALPA (and other TU's representing airside workers) don't bottle this. The Government is already trying to buy off the TU's with offers on other things....Still the fight goes on.
More is yet to be done but I think this can be defeated.
It does amaze me however, that a Government can get into such a position that it refuses to listen to the arguments and carries on regardless. They know that the apathy that runs through the British public means they can get away with it.
What is needed is mass demonstrations and calls for an immediate election. I know it won't happen but it is still the only way to get the point across.
I hope BALPA (and other TU's representing airside workers) don't bottle this. The Government is already trying to buy off the TU's with offers on other things....Still the fight goes on.
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'ID card guinea pig' pilots ready to call in lawyers
'How can it be voluntary if we're all going to lose our jobs?'
'ID card guinea pig' pilots ready to call in lawyers - Public Sector - Breaking Business and Technology News at silicon.com
So, in other words the Government either thinks it can ignore a Judicial Review or may influence the outcome of it in the first place.
'How can it be voluntary if we're all going to lose our jobs?'
'ID card guinea pig' pilots ready to call in lawyers - Public Sector - Breaking Business and Technology News at silicon.com
Balpa's national exec has already had several meetings with the government to voice its objections to ID cards, and further talks have been offered, according to the spokesman, which the union intends to take up.
However, he added: "Ministers tell us, 'well, it's going to happen anyway'.
However, he added: "Ministers tell us, 'well, it's going to happen anyway'.
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Can the government afford the cost of the ID cards now that they are hocked up to the eye balls bailing out the banks. Perhaps now would be a good time to bury bad news and quietly withdraw from this ill thought out plan.
Maybe now that Gordon runs the banks we will all have to have an ID card to use his services.
They should of implemented ID cards for Bank execs! They have been a bigger risk to our security than a pilot ever has!
6
Maybe now that Gordon runs the banks we will all have to have an ID card to use his services.
They should of implemented ID cards for Bank execs! They have been a bigger risk to our security than a pilot ever has!
6
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Ever thought of not re-electing them every time you're asked?
The Economist has a great peice about ID Cards and other Big Brother projects:
ID cards flounder | A solution in search of a problem | The Economist
Love the cartoon of the 'Guinea Pig' airline pilot chucking his ID Card out of the L1 door!
ID cards flounder | A solution in search of a problem | The Economist
Love the cartoon of the 'Guinea Pig' airline pilot chucking his ID Card out of the L1 door!
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Transport Secretary Geoff Hoon has said the government is prepared to go "quite a long way" with civil liberties to "stop terrorists killing people.
Do the Terrorists job for them. Frighten the people and deprive them of their Civil Liberties,
At least he has shown the true colours of this Government.
I don't think even he can believes that we believe him....
Do the Terrorists job for them. Frighten the people and deprive them of their Civil Liberties,
At least he has shown the true colours of this Government.
I don't think even he can believes that we believe him....
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I posted this elsewhere but is much more appropriate here:-
Public Service - ID cards will not prevent terrorism
Nice to know GCHQ think IB cards will not prevent terrorism!
This Government won't listen though will they?
Public Service - ID cards will not prevent terrorism
Nice to know GCHQ think IB cards will not prevent terrorism!
This Government won't listen though will they?
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manrow which side of the argument are you on? Post 109 appears to support the ID cards and you last one appears to be anti? Are you sitting on the fence?
If this bunch of to$$ers in No10 can use Anti Terror legsilation on Iceland and to assist George to extradite ordinary criminals (Note: it has never been used to actually stop proper 'terrorists' and in fact would never actually put off any of them in any case) then we are all terrorists in their eyes aren't we. So the reason they want ID cards and the big brother Data Base is that we are all in the frame and they can act like Nazis....or more probably the Stazi....frankly every time one of Browns Gangsters opens their mouths I feel sick....
If this bunch of to$$ers in No10 can use Anti Terror legsilation on Iceland and to assist George to extradite ordinary criminals (Note: it has never been used to actually stop proper 'terrorists' and in fact would never actually put off any of them in any case) then we are all terrorists in their eyes aren't we. So the reason they want ID cards and the big brother Data Base is that we are all in the frame and they can act like Nazis....or more probably the Stazi....frankly every time one of Browns Gangsters opens their mouths I feel sick....