BALPA against ID Cards - TUC Congress
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Interesting to see that Manchester Airport are keen to help the Gvt round up some "volunteers".
Now who owns them I wonder? Local councils of course, 80- 90% labour controlled.
Not surprising that JS legged it up the M6 to ask for a few favours. I wonder what is being offered in return?
So what's in it for London City then? Can't think of anything happening in that part of the world in the next few years.
Now who owns them I wonder? Local councils of course, 80- 90% labour controlled.
Not surprising that JS legged it up the M6 to ask for a few favours. I wonder what is being offered in return?
So what's in it for London City then? Can't think of anything happening in that part of the world in the next few years.
Ah, so its nothing to do with them being in the market for purchasing another airport then?
So when they promised their staff that in accordance with the Data Protection Act etc, biometric data would not be shared with anyone else, what they really meant was......
Now had it been LHR, JS might have found herself in the embarrrasing position of having to ask some of the Airline executives who signed the letter of objection to this half baked scheme to be her first "volunteers".
So when they promised their staff that in accordance with the Data Protection Act etc, biometric data would not be shared with anyone else, what they really meant was......
Now had it been LHR, JS might have found herself in the embarrrasing position of having to ask some of the Airline executives who signed the letter of objection to this half baked scheme to be her first "volunteers".
Last edited by biddedout; 6th Nov 2008 at 22:36.
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but why is it necessary for a legal case to be made? Isn't there a much simple way to block the scheme?
If at the two airports in question, on the first day of operation with the new ID cards a majority of the staff accidentally mislaid their cards, the airports would be shut down with pax and TV crews besieging the gates.
It's unlikely that large numbers of staff could be dismissed over such a simple matter as forgetting a card, and in any case the operators couldn't bring in replacement staff because they wouldn't have the right ID.
Surely something like this might happen?
Edit: Not that I'm promoting any sort of conspiracy of course - that would be entirely wrong and quite unacceptable!
If at the two airports in question, on the first day of operation with the new ID cards a majority of the staff accidentally mislaid their cards, the airports would be shut down with pax and TV crews besieging the gates.
It's unlikely that large numbers of staff could be dismissed over such a simple matter as forgetting a card, and in any case the operators couldn't bring in replacement staff because they wouldn't have the right ID.
Surely something like this might happen?
Edit: Not that I'm promoting any sort of conspiracy of course - that would be entirely wrong and quite unacceptable!
Last edited by Sallyann1234; 7th Nov 2008 at 12:56.
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Sallyann
Sadly the issue is that you won't need to carry the awful thing....just be issued with it. The normal issue of an airside permit (from the airport)would be on the basis of holding one of Smith and Brown's Stazi Party ID cards....so would take a number of months to actually reissue the airside permit for everyone at the locations concerned. If on being asked to renew your airside pass you did not hold a so called National ID card then no new pass would be issued and you would be made unemployed......and this is supposed to be a Labour Government supporting the workers......I don't think so. They no doubt hoping the economic situation they have engineered will then make everyone scared for their jobs and go out and get one of these. Basically once again democracy has been put on hold by this bunch of bandits. Roll on an election to kick these idiots out.
Sadly the issue is that you won't need to carry the awful thing....just be issued with it. The normal issue of an airside permit (from the airport)would be on the basis of holding one of Smith and Brown's Stazi Party ID cards....so would take a number of months to actually reissue the airside permit for everyone at the locations concerned. If on being asked to renew your airside pass you did not hold a so called National ID card then no new pass would be issued and you would be made unemployed......and this is supposed to be a Labour Government supporting the workers......I don't think so. They no doubt hoping the economic situation they have engineered will then make everyone scared for their jobs and go out and get one of these. Basically once again democracy has been put on hold by this bunch of bandits. Roll on an election to kick these idiots out.
Thanks Spanners - I thought there had to be a flaw somewhere.
So you must have the card, but not show it.
So you must have the card, but not show it.
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MAN & LCY only trial
Here comes the even thinner end of the wedge then.
If ever we need the unions to stand together on something, it's now.
Just out of interest, as Labour are so concerned about regular access to sensitive areas, why don't they trial it out on the civil service. Not that they would ever employ "unsuitables" of course.
Oh sorry forgot, you never
on your own doorstep do you.......
If ever we need the unions to stand together on something, it's now.
Just out of interest, as Labour are so concerned about regular access to sensitive areas, why don't they trial it out on the civil service. Not that they would ever employ "unsuitables" of course.
Oh sorry forgot, you never
on your own doorstep do you.......
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Sallyann1234
We knew Manchester was up for this some months ago. Manchester ID's have been issued with a 12 month expiry instead of the normal 5 years for a while now. What they want to happen is as the ID's come up for renewal then the requirement will be for you to prove who you are on production of a National Identity card. The trial is for 18 months to ensure that they ensnare everyone. Of course it goes without saying that if you are applying for work at MAN or LCY you will have to have the National ID or you won't be employed.
Once you have the National card you can throw it into a drawer and forget it. The act even specifically states that no one (Even the Police) can demand to see it. Of course the airports will not demand to see it only request.
oapilot
You are right. To that end some of us are working very hard to maybe achieve this.
It's not easy as some of the career National Officers in the TU's are hand in glove with New Labour politicians....This all has to come from Grass roots membership.
Support is growing, but we can't rest yet..
We knew Manchester was up for this some months ago. Manchester ID's have been issued with a 12 month expiry instead of the normal 5 years for a while now. What they want to happen is as the ID's come up for renewal then the requirement will be for you to prove who you are on production of a National Identity card. The trial is for 18 months to ensure that they ensnare everyone. Of course it goes without saying that if you are applying for work at MAN or LCY you will have to have the National ID or you won't be employed.
Once you have the National card you can throw it into a drawer and forget it. The act even specifically states that no one (Even the Police) can demand to see it. Of course the airports will not demand to see it only request.
oapilot
You are right. To that end some of us are working very hard to maybe achieve this.
It's not easy as some of the career National Officers in the TU's are hand in glove with New Labour politicians....This all has to come from Grass roots membership.
Support is growing, but we can't rest yet..
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How about we all accept a card......after it is mandatory for every MP/lord/lady to hold one? Remember they have to be Citizens etc. this to include all present MPs/Lords/Ladies and those who put themselves up for election or buy their peerage.....shouldn't be a problem should it? Am sure there wouldn't be any one that would complain there would there. Remember some of them have access to Nukes, vote to send the youth of the nation to invade other countries, so should be enough reason for them to be correctly identified? Who's the broon chap with his finger on the button?
Oh of course I forgot, access to WMDs has never been a bar to high office has it? Its when you don't actually hold them you get illegally booted out!
Oh of course I forgot, access to WMDs has never been a bar to high office has it? Its when you don't actually hold them you get illegally booted out!
Manchester ID's have been issued with a 12 month expiry instead of the normal 5 years for a while now.
------------
I wrote to my MP and asked her to make some noise over this issue. She did as asked as she is opposed to it personally.
Got a nice letter from the government which basically said - "Tough titty".
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Eh? I renewed mine earlier this year and it was for the normal 5 years.
I only hope the Manchester and LCY workforce are up for the fight....
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Just to reiterate a point I made some months ago. I already hold an airside pass and another piece of identity confirmation which I need to use to go to work, it is called my passport. If when I got my passport the system was so poor that it does not actually confirm who I am and the need for another 'stazi' form of ID is needed then every country in the world should stop any UK citizen from entering their country.
Today it is the case that to go to work at an airport you will need an ID card, tomorrow you will need one to go shopping, vote, get a loan, pay a bill, go on holiday, have children ....... ..... .. . .. . .
6
Today it is the case that to go to work at an airport you will need an ID card, tomorrow you will need one to go shopping, vote, get a loan, pay a bill, go on holiday, have children ....... ..... .. . .. . .
6
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I feel some sympathy with your post 6chimes!
Outright opposition to ID cards will not work, but let BALPA (supported by the membership) take the legal action to prove the point if they wish.
In the meantime considering the options and perhaps alternatives will be much more productive then all the vitriol spilt here.
Outright opposition to ID cards will not work, but let BALPA (supported by the membership) take the legal action to prove the point if they wish.
In the meantime considering the options and perhaps alternatives will be much more productive then all the vitriol spilt here.
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There is only one alternative!!! The Government want their subjects on a huge data base to enable tracking and total control. The Alternative is to scrap the idea. .
It's not Vitriol being spilt here as you put it. I accept that there are a few of you that do not see it as a civil liberties issue or don't care about it being such. However, there are some of us that are taking the trouble to question in depth and challenge the Government. It's your opinion that outright opposition to the system will not work...I beg to differ, It has already had some success and the fight has not ended yet.
Your argument for them is the Illegal Immigrant argument..This argument fails on all levels...Only Legal immigrants will get the card (as they do at present). Illegal immigrants will still have nothing (Thats what makes them Illegal). Too many people lump all immigrants into the illegal category because it's convenient.
Even if the case was proven, it would not be worth giving up other civil liberties for such little gain.
It's not Vitriol being spilt here as you put it. I accept that there are a few of you that do not see it as a civil liberties issue or don't care about it being such. However, there are some of us that are taking the trouble to question in depth and challenge the Government. It's your opinion that outright opposition to the system will not work...I beg to differ, It has already had some success and the fight has not ended yet.
Your argument for them is the Illegal Immigrant argument..This argument fails on all levels...Only Legal immigrants will get the card (as they do at present). Illegal immigrants will still have nothing (Thats what makes them Illegal). Too many people lump all immigrants into the illegal category because it's convenient.
Even if the case was proven, it would not be worth giving up other civil liberties for such little gain.
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Another issue here is that "legal immigrants" and British Citizens" are also lumped together in the same category.
Because you are a legal immigrant DOES NOT provide you with citizenship. Being a Legal immigrant give you "leave to remain" you still remain a citizen of your country of birth unless you denounce that citizenship.
Whereas, foreign nationals employed at airports are not subject to the extensive background checks that UK nationals are, due to the difficulty and complexity of a task, there remains a vast black hole of security.
It is not impossible or unlikely that a foreign national may have engaged in, been convicted of, of even been imprisoned in their own country of criminal activity, wither it be insurgency, drug offenses, theft or whatever and while having "leave to remain" in this country can gain employment at an airport with access to secure areas with no knowledge of that persons history or activities in their country or affiliations to "outlawed" groups or factions.
Therein, lies a huge security risk.
Unfortunately, we have gained a mentality of human rights that gives foreign criminals more rights than that the law abiding citizen in their country of birth. The country that they are the electoral voters, that the government is there to represent.
So the question here is that if the ID card system is applied to legal immigrants and there are no background checks to that persons prior history due to the complexity and difficulty and inability of the task with foreign governments and illegal immigrants will not be required to be issued with a card, then what is the point ?
This does nothing to enhance security. Unfortunately, with the offset of ID card issuance, then this in fact detracts from security with the misunderstanding that having been issued an ID card confirms "X" person's identity, without any cursory background knowledge.
Again, as my per my previous post, the main subjects to the ID card system and the "bolt-on goodies" the government gets from it is only to monitor and construct databases on UK nationals, their spending habits, travel patterns and all aspects of our personal lives that are quite frankly "none of the government's god-damn business."
This is being pushed through under the guise of security and immigration matters, which as we have seen have no bearing on either issue.
The Unions, the bulk of Labour support, will not go against the government on this issue . It is simply a union representatives path to destruction and loss of union representation in the NEC to stand firm against the government on the issue.
Because you are a legal immigrant DOES NOT provide you with citizenship. Being a Legal immigrant give you "leave to remain" you still remain a citizen of your country of birth unless you denounce that citizenship.
Whereas, foreign nationals employed at airports are not subject to the extensive background checks that UK nationals are, due to the difficulty and complexity of a task, there remains a vast black hole of security.
It is not impossible or unlikely that a foreign national may have engaged in, been convicted of, of even been imprisoned in their own country of criminal activity, wither it be insurgency, drug offenses, theft or whatever and while having "leave to remain" in this country can gain employment at an airport with access to secure areas with no knowledge of that persons history or activities in their country or affiliations to "outlawed" groups or factions.
Therein, lies a huge security risk.
Unfortunately, we have gained a mentality of human rights that gives foreign criminals more rights than that the law abiding citizen in their country of birth. The country that they are the electoral voters, that the government is there to represent.
So the question here is that if the ID card system is applied to legal immigrants and there are no background checks to that persons prior history due to the complexity and difficulty and inability of the task with foreign governments and illegal immigrants will not be required to be issued with a card, then what is the point ?
This does nothing to enhance security. Unfortunately, with the offset of ID card issuance, then this in fact detracts from security with the misunderstanding that having been issued an ID card confirms "X" person's identity, without any cursory background knowledge.
Again, as my per my previous post, the main subjects to the ID card system and the "bolt-on goodies" the government gets from it is only to monitor and construct databases on UK nationals, their spending habits, travel patterns and all aspects of our personal lives that are quite frankly "none of the government's god-damn business."
This is being pushed through under the guise of security and immigration matters, which as we have seen have no bearing on either issue.
The Unions, the bulk of Labour support, will not go against the government on this issue . It is simply a union representatives path to destruction and loss of union representation in the NEC to stand firm against the government on the issue.