BALPA and BA talks breakdown

[kaikohe76]

BA Possible Strike

re Post from Capt Kremin.

O dear, what a poor sad old so & so, just the sort of person & attitude who the travelling public can well do without, let alone BA themselves.

I fully acknowledge your entitlement to put your opinions as you have done.

However, I suggest it people such as yourself, with such stronly held & views (totally wrong in my own opinion), who are driving the pax, remember them? away in droves.

At no stage do you appear to relate to or consider the passenger at all, these surely are the very people who pay vastly inflated BA seat prices, to put their bums on BA seats & in doing so contribue to inlated BA salaries & pensions.

I have not used either BA as an airline or EGLL as an airport for many years & most certainly have no intention of doing so in the future. I prefer to use a carrier & airport who will treat me with at least some tact, consideration, respect & thank me for my business. In my opinion, BA & EGLL come nowhere this.

Suggestions for airline & airports where a passenger is afforded a sensible level of courtesy & understanding, Singapore A/Ls & Changi, Air New Zealand & Auckland

Get a life BA Pilots, get your collective heads out of the sand & stop behaving like a lot of imature school girls. You & EGLL may just wake up one day & find all the pax have gone.

[411A]

The label says 'PROFESSIONAL PILOTS NETWORK'!?

So it does, CaptKremin, and I'm one of those, for the last 40 years...and that is exactly why I choose to post here.

It would appear that you have a disagreement with others that don't happen to agree with your position...and that is apparently the problem with BA pilots as well.

Get used to it, it ain't gonna change.

[hellsbrink]

kaikohe76

Can ya explain where airports (especially EGLL) suddenly come into this? Last I looked, neither BA or their pilots owned said place/places. In fact, the two other airlines you mention do arrive/depart to/from EGLL so if you are going to fly to the UK you will still go through the place whether you use BA or not. And if you mean BA's check-in people, then they ain't the durned pilots so why the sudden attempt at a diversion?


(Astonishing, absolutely astonishing)

[kaikohe76]

BA Pilots Strike

Hellsbrink,

Thanks for your reply & fair enough you do have a point of course.

I do applogise if I gave the impression of moving off the point of this current discussion, that most certainly was not my intention. My intention was to highlight the fact, that yet again, if any strike takes place, it will be the pax who will come of a very much second best.

However, as so often when industrial disputes take place, in particular within the aviation industry, it's always the travelling public who get the very thin end of the wedge. You are of course absolutely correct with your comments regarding just who owns & runs EGLL & other UK airports as well for that matter. Would you not agree though, that as BA are surely the major operator out of LHR, they must be able to impose some influence on day to day operations.

Regarding the specific BA Pilots situation, here we have highly trained professionals appearing to totally forget the plight of any pax. As so often happens in these circumstances, it is the pax who loose out. My decision not to use either BA or LHR is purely personal, as I wish to be treated with some consideration anyway. I would suggest though, that many other pax will share my view & will be looking at both other airlines & airports.

Thanks again.

[hellsbrink]

So BA tell Singapore and Air NZ what to do at EGLL?

I do NOT think so.

Stop stirring.

[kaikohe76]

Hellsbrink,

You are clearly unable to grasp the meaning & intention in my reply to your post. I have no need or intention to stir anything, apart from my tea of course! I was just attempting to suggest, that when it comes to strike action, BA staff in particular have a rather poor record in thir consideration for the travelling pax. As far as the SVQ & ANZ question is concerned, in my opinion if I travel with either of these airlines, I am confident I will be treated with consideration & respect, something BA appeared to loose many moons ago.

I dont think I am the enemy, I hung up my uniform quite some time ago & thus have a choice of who I fly with & via which airport.

I suppose we could always start a conversation about passenger's baggage!!!!

[overstress]

kaikohe76

I would have thought it was self-evident that the passengers won't be going anywhere if the pilots go on strike

Likewise, if postal workers strike, no-one gets any mail etc

Passenger welfare is part of our everyday life in BA and it is offensive of you to suggest otherwise.

Please direct your ire towards our intransigent and dictatorial management who refuse to listen to one of the most loyal and 'onside' group of employees in BA.

I am on the lookout for these 'droves' of passengers 'flocking' away from BA but I don't see them. But you haven't used BA for years, or LHR.

You say

Get a life BA Pilots, get your collective heads out of the sand & stop behaving like a lot of imature school girls. You & EGLL may just wake up one day & find all the pax have gone.
Today 00:37

If I was going to write a cliched anti-BA pilot posting, that would be pretty close

You have hung up your uniform some time ago, those of us still in the business are being driven to this position, not through choice, I can assure you. I hope you are enjoying your retirement, though.

[hellsbrink]

kaikohe76


So again you are lumping BA pilots with ALL BA staff, including those on the ground. And since you dislike EGLL so much I guess we'll never see you in the UK as that is where both your favourite airlines fly to.

Also, again, what does THIS

Would you not agree though, that as BA are surely the major operator out of LHR, they must be able to impose some influence on day to day operations.

have to do with BA pilots?

Now, if you are not stirring, pray tell me what your little rant against EGLL and BA STAFF have to do with their PILOTS. There is a BIG difference between the guys who fly the planes and those at check-in/ground crew. Also, for your information, on the various times I have flown BA, both long and short haul, I have never been treated with anything less than courtesy, professionalism and respect. That may be because I treat these people with the same standards, so get treated in kind. Now, if BA management had been treating their pilots with the same standards as I apply to the BA STAFF (I generally don't get to speak to the pilots whilst they are working, they have other things to do) then you would find that no pax would be inconvenienced in any way because there would be no need for a strike. Guess what, BA management don't work that way, as we have seen in the past.

To your witterings about "baggage", again point me to what that has to do with PILOTS and remember that there are far more factors involved when you think of the baggage handling issues experienced in recent times (previous 7 years).

And, for god's sake, get a spellchecker. It's LOSE, not LOOSE (that's one of my pet hates, and not necessarily a go at you).

[interpreter]

Fossilised?

KR71. I neither stated nor suggested that BA pilots were fossilised. I was merely trying to highlight the fact that the negotiations being carried out on behalf of the pilots by BALPA would not be enhanced through strike action. May I dare to suggest that you tell others on the board what you genuinely believe will be the end result of strike action? Acceptance of BALPA requirements by the company? No public hostility? No loss of business in the long term to BA? No change to pilot Ts & Cs?

Please, the best interests of ALL aircrew are negotiated around a table with strong management negotiating with strong union leaders. However, the company may have the negotiating benefit of getting a "handle" on the aircrew view but how much of a "handle" do BALPA have on the plans and financial projections of the company? Believe you me, the best employers from the standpoint of job security are those that are most profitable.

[overstress]

[thread creep]CaptKremin: if it's any consolation, I used to be an avid PPRuNer as well - I've been here nearly since the start (despite my 'member since' tag incorrectly saying 2001)

The trolls, anglers, journos and others on here have (almost) driven me away.

The website is great and the mods do a really good job but the open access coupled with people's fascination for aviation means that all too often, we have rank amateurs and the ignorant telling the professionals how it should be done.[\thread creep]

(Standing by for accusations of arrogance - I am in fact a BA pilot, so expecting double helpings of flaming... ... nothing less than I would seem to deserve on PPRuNe 2008 )

[overstress]

interpreter:

Please, the best interests of ALL aircrew are negotiated around a table with strong management negotiating with strong union leaders.

We would like nothing better than your description above. We feel our leaders are strong, but they have been frustrated in their efforts to negotiate with BA for months over this issue. (BA refused to even talk to us about it when we raised it - for 9 months!)

Strong management take their workforce along when seeking to make changes. We suspect that our management have a masterplan they do not wish to share with us, one not involving our futures.

[M80]

BALPA were in a bit of a bind and BA have played it perfectly. BALPA had to go back to the tables to avoid looking like the instigators of trouble and then BA were able to turn round and make it look like BALPA walked out.

Stick with it guys. Nice to see pilots taking action over other pilots conditions, and aware of the effect that will have on their own. Hope it all works out for you all in BA.

[interpreter]

Strong management take their work force...

Indeed you are quite correct. However, if your understanding is that the management "are not up to scratch" - and you could be right - will a strike help? It is only the other side of the coin to a "lock-out". Neither has ever produced the desired end result.

The unions must be saying to the management " Conciliation did not work. We suggest another urgent meeting to see if we can reach an agreement that will give the company aircrew terms that mean that they that are not hostile to your plans and that make them feel part of the future and recognised for their contribution by the company."
There has to be a route forward - striking is a backward step.

How would you feel if the company decided to hold a "lock-out"? Co-operative? Co-erced? Stubborn?

I have to say that if the company will not even see the union - and I am taking your word for it - then they feel that there is nothing constructive that can be said. The union now have to kill that idea and promote themselves as being part of the solution, not the problem, and an essential player in the future of the company.

[Fake Sealion]

Is there scheduled to be a ruling today concerning the proposed injunction?

[overstress]

I have to say that if the company will not even see the union - and I am taking your word for it - then they feel that there is nothing constructive that can be said. The union now have to kill that idea and promote themselves as being part of the solution, not the problem, and an essential player in the future of the company.

The relevant managers all have the mobile phone numbers of BACC members programmed into their own mobile phones.

BALPA has taken the course you describe (part of the solution) over pensions and work coverage, in full and open discussions with the company. We have run into a brick wall this time - why? We can only conclude that there is a very big hidden agenda.

Striking may well be a backward step, but BA management can avoid us taking it at any time, by returning to the table with some movement from their intransigent position.

[M80]

...the idea of trusting management transparency...

[Capot]

Not for the first time, I am stunned by views in this thread.

If any BA staff member thinks that BA's fortunes, its pilots' fortunes, and the rest of its staff's fortunes are not inextricably linked to the way LHR is run, BA is doomed.

The travelling public does NOT care what the contributory factors are that make travelling from LHR an experience never to be repeated. The place is a badly-managed s**t-hole, where they get delayed, badly-treated by staff, harried, bullied, and threatened when they dare to protest by ill-trained, ignorant people whose only concern is their right not to be treated the same way in return.

A strike by any group of BA staff simply makes all this 10 times worse, not just for BA's passengers if there are any. And that's why the two are linked and pilots should realise that.

And once again interpreter, who actually has to sell BA's products, has produced a post that everyone concerned should read carefully.

[overstress]

Not for the first time, I reply to Capot. Can't you stop swearing? Have you got Tourettes?

I think you will find that Mr Walsh and his team have plans to break the 'inextricable' link with LHR by moving into other nations' airports instead.

BA pilots are quite willing to help the company with its plans - however, the company needs to want us 'on board' - it would seem it prefers to crow about the brand strengths whilst rejecting one of its key employee groups.

Once again: We know that if we strike, passengers will be inconvenienced. Please, I think most people realise this. We 'go the extra mile' for our passengers every day. We are talking about our entire futures.

[X-37]

I flew for BA for nearly 30 years. Apart from the 'Marshall Era' I have always thought that the Airline was run by idiots.
No sane person could think that striking is a good idea but what are BALPA supposed to do? Roll over yet again?
BALPA havent had this much balls since the days of Derek Ellis and the refusal to fly the 747s.

[GriffinPT]

I am always blown away at how freely people seem to feel about commenting on the career prospects and T&C's of other people.

Naturally BA customers are going to be affected by any industrial action that any group of BA employees vote to take.

The issue here is a grievance that the BA pilots have with the BA management, THATS THEIR BUSINESS. People are going to be affected by this industrial action, this is hardly a shock, just as patients are affected by nurses strikes, pupils by teachers strikes.

Taking strike action is a right that any employee has that belongs to a trade union. Of course people have the right to an opinion, but, ultimately, apart from inconvenience, all the why's and therefore's are actually none of their business.

All the professional women and men that fly BA's planes, day in, day out are trying to do is to protect what they have and to protect what their future colleagues should have.

BA is hardly on the bread line, greed is the only thing that is driving the current management team at BA. They do have a MASSIVE agenda which they are keeping quiet about. They are limited for growth at Heathrow, instead of p*ssing off the entire customer contact staff ( which currently accounts for only 30% of the workforce ) their growth plans should be looking towards a merger or an aquisition and not the cheapening of an icon within the aviation world.