BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat
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For thr 11 years that I was at BA, I met all sorts of managers, but the underling current was a change towards the more agressive type. With all the money and monopoly on routes, you thought that they would team up with staff, get a great working atmosphere and take on the opposition.
Remember all those years back, when BA dirty tricks where in the press. BA lost against Sir Richard. King and Marshall settled out of court. He gave the winings to his staff and called it the BA Bonus. What great industrial relations.
WW can only dream of staff relatons like that. That is why Virgin compete so strongly against BA, with all of the benefts that BA protect. Look after your staff and they will earn you fortunes!
Remember all those years back, when BA dirty tricks where in the press. BA lost against Sir Richard. King and Marshall settled out of court. He gave the winings to his staff and called it the BA Bonus. What great industrial relations.
WW can only dream of staff relatons like that. That is why Virgin compete so strongly against BA, with all of the benefts that BA protect. Look after your staff and they will earn you fortunes!
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Grunf,
Sorry I'm going to (against all my best instincts
) back cervix up here.
His quote comes directly from the 777 tech manual p 12-02-20-2.
It's about the only decent fact he has come up with though
p.s. Cervix, nothing personal. I'm enjoying
the debate.
Sorry I'm going to (against all my best instincts
) back cervix up here.His quote comes directly from the 777 tech manual p 12-02-20-2.
It's about the only decent fact he has come up with though
p.s. Cervix, nothing personal. I'm enjoying
the debate.
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Cheers Fred,
I like your posts too.Still on your first marriage and you're a pilot.Are you still under 30!!
.
Yeah going on strike for the first time in 21 years.Tough decision for anyone but I've made it.
This dispute is not over the BA 'spin' of an ingrowing toe nail but a whole range of issues which amount to a large erosion of our terms and conditions.
What BA have done is come in for many things in one hit in an aggressive manner.
Apart from the 12 points,their bullish style of management,arrogant manner and overall total disregard for it's staff,IFS management in many areas are seen by many as incompetent.In all my years I have never felt so poorly poorly led as I am by the present management.
I have looked carefully at what they have said, asked questions and got too many inconsistent answers from my management team.
I have also listened to BASSA and realise some may think there is hype coming from them and I have heard some say misleading statements.However my trust lies with them.
I feel sad that I will be on the picket line, but I will.Disappointed that it has come to this?. yes.
Worried?.Yes but who wouldn't be!!.
We felt it was time to make a stand against this management and to save our conditions.
WTDWL.
PS. When the dust has settled I sincerely hope that the board and major shareholders will ask for answers from management.Mainly,why would 96.1% of a 80% return, vote for a strike?.
I like your posts too.Still on your first marriage and you're a pilot.Are you still under 30!!
.Yeah going on strike for the first time in 21 years.Tough decision for anyone but I've made it.
This dispute is not over the BA 'spin' of an ingrowing toe nail but a whole range of issues which amount to a large erosion of our terms and conditions.
What BA have done is come in for many things in one hit in an aggressive manner.
Apart from the 12 points,their bullish style of management,arrogant manner and overall total disregard for it's staff,IFS management in many areas are seen by many as incompetent.In all my years I have never felt so poorly poorly led as I am by the present management.
I have looked carefully at what they have said, asked questions and got too many inconsistent answers from my management team.
I have also listened to BASSA and realise some may think there is hype coming from them and I have heard some say misleading statements.However my trust lies with them.
I feel sad that I will be on the picket line, but I will.Disappointed that it has come to this?. yes.
Worried?.Yes but who wouldn't be!!.
We felt it was time to make a stand against this management and to save our conditions.
WTDWL.
PS. When the dust has settled I sincerely hope that the board and major shareholders will ask for answers from management.Mainly,why would 96.1% of a 80% return, vote for a strike?.
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Fred
My apologies.......frustration allied to Englands latest performance in Adelaide
I stand by my comments, there is ample anecdotal evidence around, as such I don't believe it is up to me to present it to you. I am not trying to win an argument nor seek justification on here, I am merely presenting my opinion based on what I can assess, and what I can substantiate.
I would ask that you keep an open mind (as I believe I have) to the real underlying issues here, and bear in mind that if WW and the management team get their way..we could well be next on the list of targets further down the track.
Finally well said whattimedoweland, indeed why did 96% of the returned votes say yes for a strike? serious questions need answers.
My apologies.......frustration allied to Englands latest performance in Adelaide
I stand by my comments, there is ample anecdotal evidence around, as such I don't believe it is up to me to present it to you. I am not trying to win an argument nor seek justification on here, I am merely presenting my opinion based on what I can assess, and what I can substantiate.
I would ask that you keep an open mind (as I believe I have) to the real underlying issues here, and bear in mind that if WW and the management team get their way..we could well be next on the list of targets further down the track.
Finally well said whattimedoweland, indeed why did 96% of the returned votes say yes for a strike? serious questions need answers.
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Don't justify anything
£500m+ last year went somewhere. If someone is getting it, then the staff should as well. The people investing in BA did not offer any customer service, the staff did, the people investing in BA did not fly unsocialble hours, the staff did. The people investing in BA do not work 24/7, the staff do. The direct interface between BA and the people who give the shaeholders their dividend payments are the staff.
WW should be saying, 10% margin is what we want, how can we do this together? How can we solve 700 sickies a day? If crew are going sick, then find a way to address the reasons why the do.
£500m+ last year went somewhere. If someone is getting it, then the staff should as well. The people investing in BA did not offer any customer service, the staff did, the people investing in BA did not fly unsocialble hours, the staff did. The people investing in BA do not work 24/7, the staff do. The direct interface between BA and the people who give the shaeholders their dividend payments are the staff.
WW should be saying, 10% margin is what we want, how can we do this together? How can we solve 700 sickies a day? If crew are going sick, then find a way to address the reasons why the do.
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I too wish to keep an open mind but I am having extreme difficulty getting to the bottom of why CC feel the way they do. There is plenty of perception out there but not much to back it up.
WTDWL
Still on your first marriage and you're a pilot.Are you still under 30!! .
Apart from the 12 points,their bullish style of management,arrogant manner and overall total disregard for it's staff,IFS management in many areas are seen by many as incompetent. In all my years I have never felt so poorly poorly led as I am by the present management.
Mainly,why would 96.1% of a 80% return, vote for a strike?
ATB and once again good luck.
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I have just left BA. I was a Purser, of 3 years and a main crew member of 10 years. I loved my job. I left for various reasons.
Lets get the salary stuff out of the way. My P45 tells me that I earned £28k for a 75% contract last year. I have a degree and speak 2 languages, which is common amongst BA crew. I considered that a fair wage. I was out of the country for half of the month and had no control whatsoever over my roster.
BA are one of the only large airlines that do not have a bidding system for their cabin crew. That may be an answer to some of the sickness. I personally dislike New Year, yet, because of my part time week, if I had have stayed with BA I would've had 7 sucessive NY off. I have young children so would prefer Christmas. I was not able to change this.
They have antiquated leave systems, in that you can't request 2 lots of leave in any 12 day period. Both my son's and my daughter's birthday fall within 10 days of each other, so I had to choose.
I applied to become more part time,(bearing in mind that I was an apparent high earner) so that I could be at home more, as my husband was ill and my children at the time were under 6 years old. I was turned down (without interview, which is a legal pre requisite, under the right to request scheme)
As my husband became increasingly ill, I felt that I could not leave him alone with my kids. I ended up being signed off with depression. During this time I was phoned once by my "manager" My husband is now in remission. If I had held a ground job with BA I would have been able to come to work. I could not have left my husband, on his own with our young kids, to leave the country for up to 9 days. BA did not , or would not understand this. EG300 size does not fit all.
I left a job that I loved because I had no other choice. I offered to work on the ground. But BA would not let me as I live near BHX.
Lets get the salary stuff out of the way. My P45 tells me that I earned £28k for a 75% contract last year. I have a degree and speak 2 languages, which is common amongst BA crew. I considered that a fair wage. I was out of the country for half of the month and had no control whatsoever over my roster.
BA are one of the only large airlines that do not have a bidding system for their cabin crew. That may be an answer to some of the sickness. I personally dislike New Year, yet, because of my part time week, if I had have stayed with BA I would've had 7 sucessive NY off. I have young children so would prefer Christmas. I was not able to change this.
They have antiquated leave systems, in that you can't request 2 lots of leave in any 12 day period. Both my son's and my daughter's birthday fall within 10 days of each other, so I had to choose.
I applied to become more part time,(bearing in mind that I was an apparent high earner) so that I could be at home more, as my husband was ill and my children at the time were under 6 years old. I was turned down (without interview, which is a legal pre requisite, under the right to request scheme)
As my husband became increasingly ill, I felt that I could not leave him alone with my kids. I ended up being signed off with depression. During this time I was phoned once by my "manager" My husband is now in remission. If I had held a ground job with BA I would have been able to come to work. I could not have left my husband, on his own with our young kids, to leave the country for up to 9 days. BA did not , or would not understand this. EG300 size does not fit all.
I left a job that I loved because I had no other choice. I offered to work on the ground. But BA would not let me as I live near BHX.
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Can I also say that, there are a few shirkers among BA crew, thre are a few that hate the pax, there are some that hate the way that BA has changed, But, when I was a purser , last year, I would come home and spend at least an hour emailing the different depts about the issues on my flights. That was unpaid. That was because I cared.
We backed the flight crew in their pensions debate.
Some people will say that BA crew are overpaid.
Some of the older ones are, some of the older Captains, engineers, groundstaff etc are too.
The vast majority aren't. I have friends that fly for Flybe and thomson and they don't earn much less than I did.
BTW, I left BA and am training to be a nurse. Worcester uni accepted me without interview on the basis that I had worked for BA. Would they do the same for a Ryanair crew member?
We backed the flight crew in their pensions debate.
Some people will say that BA crew are overpaid.
Some of the older ones are, some of the older Captains, engineers, groundstaff etc are too.
The vast majority aren't. I have friends that fly for Flybe and thomson and they don't earn much less than I did.
BTW, I left BA and am training to be a nurse. Worcester uni accepted me without interview on the basis that I had worked for BA. Would they do the same for a Ryanair crew member?
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Just to learn what you're really up against
Just digressing back a little on the hot debate as to whether or not one can be sacked for AI and the complications that follow.. If it's that plausable, then why don't more companies do it and more importantly (as it has not been their style in the past), why didn't BA do that in 97, the wildcat ground staff swipe card strike, and why then, were only a couple of baggage loaders sacked for crimes of insighting others to strike when they all illegally walked out last year during the GG scrap bringing the entire airline to a costly standstill?
Whilst your comments are probably right, surely, legistically, sacking the strikers may seem like a solution but it's not really a likely course of action because despite what some city slickers may think, replacing an 11,000strong workforce isn't as easy as it sounds. It's not a matter of just nipping down to the job centre and teaching monkeys to pour tea/coffee? Lets not forget the cost of recruitment, uniforming, training, admin costs, legalities of experienced crew members per flight, looking after their most important customers (Club) etc, etc whilst Virgin will no doubt be riding on the back of this with an agrressive advertising campaign to lure BA customers their way as they always do ... and becoming more successful at it everytime we piss off the public. If I were Jo Public, I'd given up on BA years ago!
BA have had a rather dreadful year when it comes to glossy publicity. Can it really, really afford another massive disruption crisis that the airline could possibily not sustain? If the airline doesn't perform, the shareholders don't get their returns and topdogs @ bluewater won't get their fat doshy bonuses .... Isn't that what this is all about? Bottom line ... Money money money? WW can't afford to gamble this way with other peoples money, not to mention what he has to loose himself!
Sorry, but sacking the workforce, yeah, maybe legally they can, but ... I just can't see it? Can anyone convience me I'm wrong?
PS Sorry city slics, don't take offence! None meant. x x
Whilst your comments are probably right, surely, legistically, sacking the strikers may seem like a solution but it's not really a likely course of action because despite what some city slickers may think, replacing an 11,000strong workforce isn't as easy as it sounds. It's not a matter of just nipping down to the job centre and teaching monkeys to pour tea/coffee? Lets not forget the cost of recruitment, uniforming, training, admin costs, legalities of experienced crew members per flight, looking after their most important customers (Club) etc, etc whilst Virgin will no doubt be riding on the back of this with an agrressive advertising campaign to lure BA customers their way as they always do ... and becoming more successful at it everytime we piss off the public. If I were Jo Public, I'd given up on BA years ago!
BA have had a rather dreadful year when it comes to glossy publicity. Can it really, really afford another massive disruption crisis that the airline could possibily not sustain? If the airline doesn't perform, the shareholders don't get their returns and topdogs @ bluewater won't get their fat doshy bonuses .... Isn't that what this is all about? Bottom line ... Money money money? WW can't afford to gamble this way with other peoples money, not to mention what he has to loose himself!
Sorry, but sacking the workforce, yeah, maybe legally they can, but ... I just can't see it? Can anyone convience me I'm wrong?
PS Sorry city slics, don't take offence! None meant. x x
The two baggage handlers Get smart referred to bit the bullet, left BA with a VERY NICE handshake and now work for the T&G. They were both senior reps and without them, the Ramp is now leaderless and heading for oblivion. Think about all the worker-friendly board members and senior managers that have gone, leaving a lean and mean senior management team in place. The pain you think you're taking has already been inposed on the rest of us, and in spite of being tempted to think ' they're stronger than us; let them take WW on', the level of support in the rest of BA is incredibly low, due to fermenting distrust and resentment of Crew by Gound staff. You've looked down your noses just once too much and your arrogant display of playing around on flights ( cuddling, shouting, sloppy service to your ground colleagues, obvious distaste for even serving us, grabbing the best food for yourselves, lack of professionalism, etc. ) is a source of huge embarrassment to real BA professionals.
WW will weather this. He's been advised - our Ramp reps were there - that the cost of the strike will be less than the cost of giving in. Much of the cost has been absorbed as forward booking reductions have already hit us. Your people will suffer badly, and may never recover, and your senior reps may just disappear, just as our Ramp ones did.
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Deltahero
Well done for doing WW work for him. Hate your colleage, be jealous of their terms and condtions. It takes your mind off what is really happening to you all! WW mandate is not to grow the product, it is to **** the staff. He is an inforcer and everybody is at risk. People talk about the passengers and how they are being mistreated. Do you think your top table care? Do they 5hite.
It is about maximising profit to the sareholders.
Well done for doing WW work for him. Hate your colleage, be jealous of their terms and condtions. It takes your mind off what is really happening to you all! WW mandate is not to grow the product, it is to **** the staff. He is an inforcer and everybody is at risk. People talk about the passengers and how they are being mistreated. Do you think your top table care? Do they 5hite.
It is about maximising profit to the sareholders.
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At the end of the day the cabin crew are sick of not being listened to. We constantly feed back the state of what's on board, what should be offered to the customer etc.
Does anyone listen?
Does no one realise that to be happy cabin crew is when you have happy pax? We hate it when they're pissed off, we hate delays, we hate it when the catering is **** etc
If the managers could get their act together BA could be great. As I said before, I left BA, I am now a student nurse and now work for Tesco and love the lack of resposibility, no immigration or customs paperwork to worry about.
They actually REWARD their staff. Every month we get rewarded for the mystery shoper vote, the fact that we reduce waste and that we stop the customer queing, by opening more tills. We get 10% of our wage for each of these.
BA have not REWARDED their staff for over 10 yrs, despite the fact that it is a very profitable business. There should be a reward scheme, an incentive, and a flexible rostering system.
Does anyone listen?
Does no one realise that to be happy cabin crew is when you have happy pax? We hate it when they're pissed off, we hate delays, we hate it when the catering is **** etc
If the managers could get their act together BA could be great. As I said before, I left BA, I am now a student nurse and now work for Tesco and love the lack of resposibility, no immigration or customs paperwork to worry about.
They actually REWARD their staff. Every month we get rewarded for the mystery shoper vote, the fact that we reduce waste and that we stop the customer queing, by opening more tills. We get 10% of our wage for each of these.
BA have not REWARDED their staff for over 10 yrs, despite the fact that it is a very profitable business. There should be a reward scheme, an incentive, and a flexible rostering system.
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Get real
Litebulb
I'm no friend of WW, but anyone who thinks this strike will even slightly impress him is playing into his hands. There are so many other ways to skin a goose, and a lot more ground work should have been done by BASSA reps and Crew to get support from other parts of BA. It doesn't exist - face it and move on.
The Staff travel suspension will be manipulated by WW as the total fault of Crew, and those other staff whose holis will be ruined wont forgive Crew. It's about time short sighted following of BASSA and belief in all the reps predict is seen through. You are playing into WW's hands and we'll all pay the piper.
I'm no friend of WW, but anyone who thinks this strike will even slightly impress him is playing into his hands. There are so many other ways to skin a goose, and a lot more ground work should have been done by BASSA reps and Crew to get support from other parts of BA. It doesn't exist - face it and move on.
The Staff travel suspension will be manipulated by WW as the total fault of Crew, and those other staff whose holis will be ruined wont forgive Crew. It's about time short sighted following of BASSA and belief in all the reps predict is seen through. You are playing into WW's hands and we'll all pay the piper.
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Why would that be ? I have met the BA customers day in and out, I have an excellent record at BA and other airlines. I am a fantastic student. What do you know about me that I and my family don't?
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Like I said lightbulb hun,
Maybe they could do with someone on the frontline to be a manager. Won't be me. I left. But, people that see the state of the a/c, see the pax being pissed off and see the catering day after day , must be better than someone that has no clue....surely?
Maybe they could do with someone on the frontline to be a manager. Won't be me. I left. But, people that see the state of the a/c, see the pax being pissed off and see the catering day after day , must be better than someone that has no clue....surely?