BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat
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We don't really hate each other!!.
For those of you especially the general public who may be reading this topic I would just like to reasure you.
It may seem from what you are reading that flight crew and cabin crew from BA do not like each other too much!!!.
No matter what walk of life or job you are in there are always a few hell bent on confrontation.
The reason I very rarely view this forum is for that reason.Pprune seems to attract those who just want to 'rubbish' other groups of people and in some case's justify their very large salaries at the cost of others.
I go to work and can honestly say in the last few years I can count on one hand the crew on each side of the door I did'nt enjoy flying and being downroute with.
I fear those few are the same bitter people who end up on here.
Here's to the nice majority!!.
WTDWL.
PS. where any of you dumped by pilots or stewardesses to make you feel this way
.
It may seem from what you are reading that flight crew and cabin crew from BA do not like each other too much!!!.
No matter what walk of life or job you are in there are always a few hell bent on confrontation.
The reason I very rarely view this forum is for that reason.Pprune seems to attract those who just want to 'rubbish' other groups of people and in some case's justify their very large salaries at the cost of others.
I go to work and can honestly say in the last few years I can count on one hand the crew on each side of the door I did'nt enjoy flying and being downroute with.
I fear those few are the same bitter people who end up on here.
Here's to the nice majority!!.
WTDWL.
PS. where any of you dumped by pilots or stewardesses to make you feel this way
.
Last edited by whattimedoweland; 23rd Jan 2007 at 20:30.
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What will bring an end to the strike - to end their 'frustration'? BA aren't going to concede anything big.
Why do they feel frustrated? Could it be that BASSA have told them they are frustrated, therefore they are?
I have said several times I have no problem with them striking provided it is based on truths. Every CC member I have spoken to has come up with stuff like 'hourly rate allowances' & 'airport hotels' & 'single night LAX' all of which have been fed to them by BASSA.
So Fred if you want me to put on the record all the reasons and excuses, I'm sorry to disappoint, my opinion is that 1 or 2 points are valid.
I notice you once again ignored my other questions. (diary of a stewardess, Pension £6m) and nobody has commented on the other SPIN items from the latest newsletter I posted on no.529
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notice you once again ignored my other questions. (diary of a stewardess, Pension £6m) and nobody has commented on the other SPIN items from the latest newsletter I posted on no.529
My position is that BA management have a lot more to answer for than perhaps BASSA do. I also contend that a certain % of cockpit crew have little or no regard for CC as whole, and that as long as it doesn't effect them negatively they are happy to let BA act in a way detrimental to other employee groups.
No one wins with a strike, history repeats this over and over again, unfortunately BA management have annoyed CC members enough to provoke action.
Finally I note with interest tonights episode of watchdog mentioned 22000 bags lost over the Xmas period, I wonder, will that be blamed on the baggage handlers?
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Now that you are here, and you're senior BA CC, how about saying which of the Bassa points you support and why?
And confirm or correct the figures in post #490 which are said to be the actual level of BA CC earnings?
(ie Not just the basic salary.)
And confirm or correct the figures in post #490 which are said to be the actual level of BA CC earnings?
(ie Not just the basic salary.)
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 23rd Jan 2007 at 20:05.
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When the darlings refer to a "one off life event" for sickness to be discounted,surely they realise by now that Wimbledon happens every Summer?
Fred, good posts fella, you are well informed, in fact nearly as well as I am
Fred, good posts fella, you are well informed, in fact nearly as well as I am
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So the truth is out DarkStar - you are just another armchair observer putting your two penneth' in for whatever reason - amongst many on this thread making comments without supporting facts.
I can only speak from experience and find Indian services no different to many others, and there are many others that are worth less financially.
Unfortunately what you read in the press is sometimes planted there for the likes of you - e.g. 'ingrown toenail' story supplied by BA Press office.
I can only speak from experience and find Indian services no different to many others, and there are many others that are worth less financially.
Unfortunately what you read in the press is sometimes planted there for the likes of you - e.g. 'ingrown toenail' story supplied by BA Press office.
You might do well to spend some time working with Crew Control on the 2nd Floor of Compass. My contacts there will tell you more about CC 'sickness' than BA Press Office would ever disclose to the public. I don't believe any Crew should fly with ear infections, but sadly, it would seem CC have one of the worst sickness records in the World.
My wife is a nurse, working a full shift pattern on an Acute ward. The average sickness rate for her ward last year was 5 days, for the hospital it was 6. She is surrounded by ill people, she is poorly paid in comparison even to NEW BA starter rates, she doesn't get 'Allowances' or Box payments or destination payments' so why is CC sickness so high? You don't know when you're well off.
You can see why people shake their head and wonder what is going on at BA. It's embarrasing in todays climate.
...and please explain why we struggle to CC flights during Royal Ascot, Wimbledon and Henley.
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Flying Laywer,
Firstly thanks for your reply and whatever I feel personally thanks for your well delivered posts on here.
I will not disclose the points why I will take part.I will say that I spent much time looking at both sides of the case before casting my vote.
I will not aire on a public forum or anywhere else for that matter on which or how many issues directed my voting decision.It's not professional and it is not the business of people I do not know and may never meet!!.
I have never made a judgement or comment on the decisions of other groups of workers in times of industrial problems for two reasons.
1) Unless you are in that field of work or particular department and know the real issues and background you are in NO position to make judgement on someone else's decision.
2) It has nothing to do with me and I find no joy in sticking my nose into someone else's business,especially when it is personal to them!!.
As regards the wage's I must try and clear this one up.I have been with BA 21years, crew for 13 and CSD for eight of those.
I wish I did earn the figure quoted by the Telegraph.I earned some £16,000 less than that and that was by best year.Certainly not the £70,000 quoted in a paper this week by one of my ill informed Gatwick colleagues.If I was on either of the figures quoted I would be more than happy.
None of us in BA should have to justify our our salaries or make them open for all to see.The only one's who should,maybe our greedy over paid managers who look for savings from the staff and then award themselves £76 million in share bonus payments and Willie within a year gets a £65,000 pay rise!!.Double standards come to mind.
I would also like to correct one post that implied that many BASSA members 'hung off every word and text' from their Union.I felt that was an insult to people l have much respect for and who have an ability to think for themselves.
Sweeping statements are very much the norm on PPRUNE!!.
WTDWL.
Firstly thanks for your reply and whatever I feel personally thanks for your well delivered posts on here.
I will not disclose the points why I will take part.I will say that I spent much time looking at both sides of the case before casting my vote.
I will not aire on a public forum or anywhere else for that matter on which or how many issues directed my voting decision.It's not professional and it is not the business of people I do not know and may never meet!!.
I have never made a judgement or comment on the decisions of other groups of workers in times of industrial problems for two reasons.
1) Unless you are in that field of work or particular department and know the real issues and background you are in NO position to make judgement on someone else's decision.
2) It has nothing to do with me and I find no joy in sticking my nose into someone else's business,especially when it is personal to them!!.
As regards the wage's I must try and clear this one up.I have been with BA 21years, crew for 13 and CSD for eight of those.
I wish I did earn the figure quoted by the Telegraph.I earned some £16,000 less than that and that was by best year.Certainly not the £70,000 quoted in a paper this week by one of my ill informed Gatwick colleagues.If I was on either of the figures quoted I would be more than happy.
None of us in BA should have to justify our our salaries or make them open for all to see.The only one's who should,maybe our greedy over paid managers who look for savings from the staff and then award themselves £76 million in share bonus payments and Willie within a year gets a £65,000 pay rise!!.Double standards come to mind.
I would also like to correct one post that implied that many BASSA members 'hung off every word and text' from their Union.I felt that was an insult to people l have much respect for and who have an ability to think for themselves.
Sweeping statements are very much the norm on PPRUNE!!.
WTDWL.
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Darkstar,
I for one have never missed a Bom/Del/Nbo or any other destination for that matter on purpose.The fact I love curry does not come into it.Those who do miss them pi*s me off and I wish they'd leave.
NRT may be good money but I personally don't like the place.
I feel you have labeled us all with the same brush,unfairly I feel.
There again I get used to the sweeping statements on here!!.
Some people say most BA pilots eat all the cheese and whats left from First Class,wear light coloured Dockers trousers,fake Bangkok Ralph shirts and drive a second hand Volve due to their third marriage!!.But we all know thats not true....Is it? .
Sweeping statements are pathetic.
WTDWL.
I for one have never missed a Bom/Del/Nbo or any other destination for that matter on purpose.The fact I love curry does not come into it.Those who do miss them pi*s me off and I wish they'd leave.
NRT may be good money but I personally don't like the place.
I feel you have labeled us all with the same brush,unfairly I feel.
There again I get used to the sweeping statements on here!!.
Some people say most BA pilots eat all the cheese and whats left from First Class,wear light coloured Dockers trousers,fake Bangkok Ralph shirts and drive a second hand Volve due to their third marriage!!.But we all know thats not true....Is it?
.Sweeping statements are pathetic.
WTDWL.
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My position is that BA management have a lot more to answer for than perhaps BASSA do.
A few years ago I personally heard 2 CC on the car park bus openly discussing their plan to throw a sickie at the weekend in order to attend a party. It was the culture and had to be stopped.
I also contend that a certain % of cockpit crew have little or no regard for CC as whole, and that as long as it doesn't effect them negatively they are happy to let BA act in a way detrimental to other employee groups.
No one wins with a strike, history repeats this over and over again, unfortunately BA management have annoyed CC members enough to provoke action.
ATB and keep posting.
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Some people say most BA pilots eat all the cheese and whats left from First Class,wear light coloured Dockers trousers,fake Bangkok Ralph shirts and drive a second hand Volve due to their third marriage!!.
Still on first marriage and not a Volvo in sight.
Don't agree with your decision but like your posts. Good luck
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Fred..
I disagree, the CC I know laughed at this.
Sorry, I can't honestly be bothered, there is more than enough anecdotal evidence to answer your question. If that isn't good enough to illustrate my point, then perhaps a quick search of the recent industrial past of BA will enlighten you Its a plethora of double dealing, propoganda, and rather insensitive people management...it all adds up Fred, people have long memories.
If that was the case, its reprehensible. As you say it was the "culture" so, I ask where did this culture eminate from? Some would suggest poor management has some culpability here.
I'm sorry but thats ignoring them in my book. I believe 'diary of a stewardess 2017' is relevant because the 'information' contained in that work of fiction is whiy a lot of crew are striking.
Ok, so back that position up with FACTS.
Its a plethora of double dealing, propoganda, and rather insensitive people management...it all adds up Fred, people have long memories.
A few years ago I personally heard 2 CC on the car park bus openly discussing their plan to throw a sickie at the weekend in order to attend a party. It was the culture and had to be stopped.
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Thanks for the following quote Flying Fred.............................................
............................................................ ........................................
BASSA conveniently forget to mention the £6m per annum that has been ringfenced to help negate the effects of the increased retirement age. If used in the same way as the pilots have done, pensionably pay scales could be raised by approx 20%. If this is done and the age 60 option is taken (8.25% contribution), they would get back close to the position they want for only 8.25%, not 17.5% as claimed.
.....................................................
A big problem must be round the corner, when BASSA get a deal sorted out with the company and the other Unions and Staff understand Flying staff are to get approx 20% basic pay rise due to pension changes we will be following the same type thread with all Non-Flying Staff, why are the company winding up all the staff like this???
.
One newspaper said over the weekend that at least all this trouble should be sorted out by April and the summer should be ok, looks like this will drag and drag, looks like another poor plan falling apart fast, on the plus side, the managers will get lots of free press coverage this year!!!
............................................................ ........................................
BASSA conveniently forget to mention the £6m per annum that has been ringfenced to help negate the effects of the increased retirement age. If used in the same way as the pilots have done, pensionably pay scales could be raised by approx 20%. If this is done and the age 60 option is taken (8.25% contribution), they would get back close to the position they want for only 8.25%, not 17.5% as claimed.
.....................................................
A big problem must be round the corner, when BASSA get a deal sorted out with the company and the other Unions and Staff understand Flying staff are to get approx 20% basic pay rise due to pension changes we will be following the same type thread with all Non-Flying Staff, why are the company winding up all the staff like this???
.
One newspaper said over the weekend that at least all this trouble should be sorted out by April and the summer should be ok, looks like this will drag and drag, looks like another poor plan falling apart fast, on the plus side, the managers will get lots of free press coverage this year!!!
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Yes, I know, but this sort of propaganda is purvasive. Why do a lot of cabin crew I ask think they are striking over the very issues in that 'diary'?
...so you can't be bothered (to back your argument up with any facts) Great. That just leads me to believe you don't have any facts, just rhetoric & hearsay.
So where is this evidence of double dealing, propaganda, insensitive people management etc?? Great on rhetoric, short on fact. Please give examples from the 'recent industrial past'
.
Yep, I would agree poor management had it's part for all sorts of reasons. Over the past 2 years the management has got stronger and decided to end the sickie culture throughout BA (not just CC). That's what this strike is partly about. BASSA want to discount almost any illness. I agree that EG300 has its faults and could work better but it is not worth striking over.
Sorry, I can't honestly be bothered, there is more than enough anecdotal evidence to answer your question.
If that isn't good enough to illustrate my point, then perhaps a quick search of the recent industrial past of BA will enlighten you Its a plethora of double dealing, propoganda, and rather insensitive people management...it all adds up Fred, people have long memories.
Its a plethora of double dealing, propoganda, and rather insensitive people management...it all adds up Fred, people have long memories.
If that was the case, its reprehensible. As you say it was the "culture" so, I ask where did this culture eminate from? Some would suggest poor management has some culpability here.
Yep, I would agree poor management had it's part for all sorts of reasons. Over the past 2 years the management has got stronger and decided to end the sickie culture throughout BA (not just CC). That's what this strike is partly about. BASSA want to discount almost any illness. I agree that EG300 has its faults and could work better but it is not worth striking over.
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Thanks for the following quote Flying Fred.............................................
............................................................ ........................................
BASSA conveniently forget to mention the £6m per annum that has been ringfenced to help negate the effects of the increased retirement age. If used in the same way as the pilots have done, pensionably pay scales could be raised by approx 20%. If this is done and the age 60 option is taken (8.25% contribution), they would get back close to the position they want for only 8.25%, not 17.5% as claimed.
.....................................................
A big problem must be round the corner, when BASSA get a deal sorted out with the company and the other Unions and Staff understand Flying staff are to get approx 20% basic pay rise due to pension changes we will be following the same type thread with all Non-Flying Staff, why are the company winding up all the staff like this???
.
One newspaper said over the weekend that at least all this trouble should be sorted out by April and the summer should be ok, looks like this will drag and drag, looks like another poor plan falling apart fast, on the plus side, the managers will get lots of free press coverage this year!!!
............................................................ ........................................
BASSA conveniently forget to mention the £6m per annum that has been ringfenced to help negate the effects of the increased retirement age. If used in the same way as the pilots have done, pensionably pay scales could be raised by approx 20%. If this is done and the age 60 option is taken (8.25% contribution), they would get back close to the position they want for only 8.25%, not 17.5% as claimed.
.....................................................
A big problem must be round the corner, when BASSA get a deal sorted out with the company and the other Unions and Staff understand Flying staff are to get approx 20% basic pay rise due to pension changes we will be following the same type thread with all Non-Flying Staff, why are the company winding up all the staff like this???
.
One newspaper said over the weekend that at least all this trouble should be sorted out by April and the summer should be ok, looks like this will drag and drag, looks like another poor plan falling apart fast, on the plus side, the managers will get lots of free press coverage this year!!!
Sorry to disappoint you and can we get back to the strike discussion...
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Tech stuff re. flight deck
Hello all. Just a small correction regarding some (technical) quotes:
atyourcervix,
I think you are in error. Either there is a special manual for BA 777 or I do not see things well (I have access to all tech doc from Boeing's fleet).
From 777 ECS description:
"Conditioned air from packs passes through check valves, and enters the mix manifold in the aft end of the forward cargo compartment. Filtered, recalculated air is added to the mix manifold by the two lower recirculation fans. Fresh air for the flight deck branches off from the left pack outlet duct before it enters the mix manifold. "
There is no mention of the pressure differential. Also there would be a need for a special analysis if that is the case even for a small delta P.
Another quote from a testimonial given by Boeing's VP of Engineering and Product Integrity in the wake of events in 2001:
"•The flight deck must be able to withstand pressure differences between the cabin and the flight deck in the event of a rapid decompression. This is why cockpit doors are designed with vents that open, or the entire door opens, whenever there is a significant pressure differential between the cockpit and the cabin. "
In general there is no pressure difference between the two. Only case is the critical, rapid decompression, already required by the regulatory documents.
Sorry for digression
Cheers,
Topbunk
From the 777 manual..
"The flight deck receives 100% fresh conditioned air from the left pack only, and
is maintained at a slightly higher pressure than the passenger cabin to prevent
smoke from entering the flight deck." as per the 757 and 767
On the 747...
From the 777 manual..
"The flight deck receives 100% fresh conditioned air from the left pack only, and
is maintained at a slightly higher pressure than the passenger cabin to prevent
smoke from entering the flight deck." as per the 757 and 767
On the 747...
I think you are in error. Either there is a special manual for BA 777 or I do not see things well (I have access to all tech doc from Boeing's fleet).
From 777 ECS description:
"Conditioned air from packs passes through check valves, and enters the mix manifold in the aft end of the forward cargo compartment. Filtered, recalculated air is added to the mix manifold by the two lower recirculation fans. Fresh air for the flight deck branches off from the left pack outlet duct before it enters the mix manifold. "
There is no mention of the pressure differential. Also there would be a need for a special analysis if that is the case even for a small delta P.
Another quote from a testimonial given by Boeing's VP of Engineering and Product Integrity in the wake of events in 2001:
"•The flight deck must be able to withstand pressure differences between the cabin and the flight deck in the event of a rapid decompression. This is why cockpit doors are designed with vents that open, or the entire door opens, whenever there is a significant pressure differential between the cockpit and the cabin. "
In general there is no pressure difference between the two. Only case is the critical, rapid decompression, already required by the regulatory documents.
Sorry for digression
Cheers,
Last edited by Grunf; 23rd Jan 2007 at 23:42.
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All I want you to do is back up your arguments with something resembling a fact. I am more than happy to believe what you believe if only you could tell me that it is based on something more than a feeling!!!
ATB