Airport Security (Merged) - Effects on Crew/Staff
Just heard BBC news say that Ryanair were calling for police and army personnel to bolster the security screening process. Somewhat ironic when Ryanair do not accept UK Armed Forces ID or Police warrant cards as suitable photo ID for check-in.
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Danny. No pens allowed through crew security at LGW! You cannot be serious? Surely we should all just turn around and return to our crew rooms - we cannot do our jobs without the basic pen! It wouldn't take too many delayed or cancelled flights with the subsequent even more crowding in the terminal, gates occupied by non-departing a/c etc, our management would soon be screaming down the phone at the BAA. The head of security at LGW would very soon be asked to explain his reasoning when his counterpart up the road at LHR is operating to a different set of rules!
I shall look forward to going through LGW this week.
I shall look forward to going through LGW this week.
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I went back to work yesterday at LGW and had no problem taking my normal flight bag through security, with pens, mobile phones, calculators car keys etc. Only difference from before was that I had to remove my shoes and was patted down.
At the car park Easyjet have a sign up telling there crews what the are not allowed to take with them. Including only theCaptain being allowed a phone. Can someone explain what is the point of all this!
At the car park Easyjet have a sign up telling there crews what the are not allowed to take with them. Including only theCaptain being allowed a phone. Can someone explain what is the point of all this!
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Originally Posted by Danny
Having just arrived in MCO I was astounded at the pathetic decision making behind this current security fiasco.
For example, flight crew passing through LGW cannot take a pen! Yes, you read it correctly, we cannot carry a pen of any type on our person or in our crew bags.
For example, flight crew passing through LGW cannot take a pen! Yes, you read it correctly, we cannot carry a pen of any type on our person or in our crew bags.
In particular the fact that essential crew items should be permitted, whilst subject to a hand search if not possible to x-ray. The muppets doing this obviously feel they don't have the time... Which leads me to the other disparity, that Crew should have their own dedicated screening channels.
These failures and inconsistencies by BAA need to be reported on each occasion. (I quite like the idea of taking a copy of the guidlines with you to beat the muppet over the head with).
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I am sorry for being an old cynic, but the tosh being said here about the aircrew making a stand on behalf of themselves and passengers makes me laugh. Industrial action was being contemplated this month to force the airlines to cough up on pensions, pay etc.
The result was that the passengers were facing the same sort of disruption as they are now facing. The scenes at Heathrow seem similar to the last couple of Augusts. Pass the barff bags quick. aircrew on the side of passengers - what a joke.
Now that the airlines are taking a hammering anyone fancy putting in the final nails into the coffin with industrial action?
Actually, its a good time to go on strike, make your point but ........
The result was that the passengers were facing the same sort of disruption as they are now facing. The scenes at Heathrow seem similar to the last couple of Augusts. Pass the barff bags quick. aircrew on the side of passengers - what a joke.
Now that the airlines are taking a hammering anyone fancy putting in the final nails into the coffin with industrial action?
Actually, its a good time to go on strike, make your point but ........
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Danny,
You're right of course. Rarely do I read something as angry as this, from you.
I don't understand the fact that I who have been given an airport pass, who have been CRCd and x-rayed every day of my life, suddenly can't take my bloomin food on board??
I, who have been flying 4-500 passengers every day in the recent and distant pass, can't take my personal pen with me on board?
I think that poor John Read must be unaware of this and in the name of all of us pilots, PPRUNE should contact him directly and demand the immediate removal of ALL restrictions from flightdeck crew, with immediate effect!
. If this doesn't happen, we must unite and say enogh is enough!
You're right of course. Rarely do I read something as angry as this, from you.
I don't understand the fact that I who have been given an airport pass, who have been CRCd and x-rayed every day of my life, suddenly can't take my bloomin food on board??
I, who have been flying 4-500 passengers every day in the recent and distant pass, can't take my personal pen with me on board?
I think that poor John Read must be unaware of this and in the name of all of us pilots, PPRUNE should contact him directly and demand the immediate removal of ALL restrictions from flightdeck crew, with immediate effect!
. If this doesn't happen, we must unite and say enogh is enough!
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There is little BALPA or the Airlines can do to change the current situation! The lunatics are now running the asylum and are doing it under the heading of national security! This means anyone who speaks out and challenges the sanity of some procedures is informed they don’t have the big picture !
I think we all understand in the current climate extra security is needed but we have to accept all the passenger security in the world won’t stop a bomb getting on board. I don’t intend to go into detail on an open forum but anyone who works around an airport knows what I mean! There is a risk and always will be until we tackle the issues that breed these people and stop hounding our security forces when they make mistakes! Mistakes will be made and on occasion innocents will be affected, killed or falsely accused it is the nature of the war we are in.
The only way the security procedures will change is passenger power! Vote with your feet, write to your MP, Get your employers to put pressure on the government and form pressure groups! Make the men in grey suits justify these procedures. At the moment they just claim national security and the airline industry has to tow the line!
I think we all understand in the current climate extra security is needed but we have to accept all the passenger security in the world won’t stop a bomb getting on board. I don’t intend to go into detail on an open forum but anyone who works around an airport knows what I mean! There is a risk and always will be until we tackle the issues that breed these people and stop hounding our security forces when they make mistakes! Mistakes will be made and on occasion innocents will be affected, killed or falsely accused it is the nature of the war we are in.
The only way the security procedures will change is passenger power! Vote with your feet, write to your MP, Get your employers to put pressure on the government and form pressure groups! Make the men in grey suits justify these procedures. At the moment they just claim national security and the airline industry has to tow the line!
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Direct action !
Above we have 20 or so pages of examples of the result of the ill conceved "security enhancments" but if the D f T are not reading this website it is to no good effect.
I have talked to the D f T about one of the issues raised above in this case the new measures are a reduction in security.
The reaction was one of surprize that the increased security had made the situation worse and it was quite clear that things that had never crossed there minds are becoming real issues.
They say that they have consulted the airline industry but if they have the conversation was very one way and not with the people who have to work at the coalface.
The best thing that all of you can do is to pick up the phone and call D f T with your individual problems this way the real situation will get to them not what your managers think is happening
I have talked to the D f T about one of the issues raised above in this case the new measures are a reduction in security.
The reaction was one of surprize that the increased security had made the situation worse and it was quite clear that things that had never crossed there minds are becoming real issues.
They say that they have consulted the airline industry but if they have the conversation was very one way and not with the people who have to work at the coalface.
The best thing that all of you can do is to pick up the phone and call D f T with your individual problems this way the real situation will get to them not what your managers think is happening
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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A warning to all on Danny's behalf - he has stated (Post #158) that posts NOT related to crew security issues on this thread will be 'moderated'.
There are several other threads elsewhere on PPRune where conspiracy and newspaper articles can be discussed.
Do not be surprised if your posts disappear
There are several other threads elsewhere on PPRune where conspiracy and newspaper articles can be discussed.
Do not be surprised if your posts disappear
There is nothing BALPA can do about the current inept Security Managers at these airports.
The Dtr have made several mandatory instructions, but a majority of what you are suffering now are mearly recommendations, interpretted quite wrongly and to the detriment of all concerned by the Airport Security Managers.
I have seen the briefings, I have seen the notices and I am flabbergasted that such rules and recommendations have been interpreted as absolute. My crew yesterday had to wait for over an hour for their transport after a flight nearly exceeding their FDP, the relief crew had nearly two hours in security. Fortunately nothing was removed from them, so I didn't have masses of gear and goodies to retrive.
Yesterday at LHR if you entered through one end of a particular terminal, you couldn't take pens, lighters, cigarettes or even a poor girls banana (no jokes about eating it please) but yet at the other end through the same terminal, a different security post (controlled by the same control room) you could take your pens, lighters and cigarettes through.
The Dtr have made several mandatory instructions, but a majority of what you are suffering now are mearly recommendations, interpretted quite wrongly and to the detriment of all concerned by the Airport Security Managers.
I have seen the briefings, I have seen the notices and I am flabbergasted that such rules and recommendations have been interpreted as absolute. My crew yesterday had to wait for over an hour for their transport after a flight nearly exceeding their FDP, the relief crew had nearly two hours in security. Fortunately nothing was removed from them, so I didn't have masses of gear and goodies to retrive.
Yesterday at LHR if you entered through one end of a particular terminal, you couldn't take pens, lighters, cigarettes or even a poor girls banana (no jokes about eating it please) but yet at the other end through the same terminal, a different security post (controlled by the same control room) you could take your pens, lighters and cigarettes through.
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crew = pax
Originally Posted by Married a Canadian
what is the purpose of all the security screening that you guys no doubt have to go through to get a job as an airline pilot anyway if you are then subjected to the same ludicrous security clampdown that the general public is??
If aircrew are confident that their ID cannot be forged/misappropriated etc and that security can recognise a valid ID they are entitled to complain - otherwise life's a bitch - at least the mandatory cavity searches haven't started yet.
(Not that I'm arguing for a ban on pens.
)
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BALPA Contacts
Here are your main BALPA contacts. I suggest we all get on to it: I think we all know what needs to be said!
All members calling BALPA will be asked which Company they work for and will be passed to the appropriate staff member. This will ensure consistency and continuity in issue solving and will allow us to improve both internal and external communication with existing and prospective members.
020 8476 4048
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020 8476 4064
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020 8476 4050
All members calling BALPA will be asked which Company they work for and will be passed to the appropriate staff member. This will ensure consistency and continuity in issue solving and will allow us to improve both internal and external communication with existing and prospective members.
BAC Express, Britannia, bmi mainline, Buzz, Excel Airways, First Choice, FB Heliservices, GB Airways, Loganair, MyTravel, Thomas Cook, QinetiQ, bmi regional, bmi baby, Astraeus, (Other Airlines / Members: Surname A-F)
Maggie [email protected]020 8476 4048
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British Airways, BACX (secondees), BIH, Bristow Helicopters, Flybe, FR Aviation Limited, Monarch Airlines, Police Aviation Services, ScotAirways, Scotia Helicopters, Bond Air Services, (Other Airlines / Members: Surname G-N)
Debra [email protected]020 8476 4064
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BACX, British Mediterranean, EasyJet, KLM City Hopper, Virgin, Air Wales, Ryanair, (Other Airlines / Members: Surname O-Z)
Pauline [email protected]020 8476 4050
jdaley,
All who go airside would be equally, and in many cases more likely, to pose such a risk.
"If aircrew are confident that their ID cannot be forged/misappropriated etc and that security can recognise a valid ID they are entitled to complain"
How many Police, Security, Airside shop staff, ID's/Passes go missing every year yet are they disarmed and having the requirements of their trade taken away?
There seems to be a lot of bias from Officials, Police, Security, Management and some of the general public against Pilots and its about time these people grew up and recognised we have a job to do as well.
All who go airside would be equally, and in many cases more likely, to pose such a risk.
"If aircrew are confident that their ID cannot be forged/misappropriated etc and that security can recognise a valid ID they are entitled to complain"
How many Police, Security, Airside shop staff, ID's/Passes go missing every year yet are they disarmed and having the requirements of their trade taken away?
There seems to be a lot of bias from Officials, Police, Security, Management and some of the general public against Pilots and its about time these people grew up and recognised we have a job to do as well.
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Originally Posted by slingsby
There is nothing BALPA can do about the current inept Security Managers at these airports.
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Originally Posted by BOAC
A warning to all on Danny's behalf - he has stated (Post #158) that posts NOT related to crew security issues on this thread will be 'moderated'.
There are several other threads elsewhere on PPRune where conspiracy and newspaper articles can be discussed.
Do not be surprised if your posts disappear
There are several other threads elsewhere on PPRune where conspiracy and newspaper articles can be discussed.
Do not be surprised if your posts disappear
Thanks.
Edit: Almost impossible to 'track back' and check, but AFAIK the 'poll' posts are still in place as they do relate to crew issues. Anything else eg concerning pax screening, profiling, airlines profits or conspiracy theories is liable to get the 'big chop' from one of us.
Edit: Poll thread has been merged with this one, although the posts are intact. Anyway - point taken.
Last edited by LD Max; 13th Aug 2006 at 11:56.
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Now the UK government is keeping the threat level increased, does that mean they are expecting more terroristic activities? Or are the lower security levels considered permanently inadequate, waiting to be revised? I am off to LHR tonight (ex AMS), hope we can stay on board and avoid all the hassle during the turnaround.
Regarding the unions I think they will have a limited input in security related procedures. Do think that the bigger airliners understand their interest in having crew friendly procedures and I sincerely hope the current situation will not be abused to enforce body-scanners and procedures to hack in our personal do and don'ts (Unless it would be O.K. to buy MP3's in Russia).
Regarding the unions I think they will have a limited input in security related procedures. Do think that the bigger airliners understand their interest in having crew friendly procedures and I sincerely hope the current situation will not be abused to enforce body-scanners and procedures to hack in our personal do and don'ts (Unless it would be O.K. to buy MP3's in Russia).
The unions could temporarily shutdown aviation altogether, and I'm tempted to say they should (I'm also tempted to quit aviation and pursue an alternative career right now, but I know that feeling will subside). The industry is fragile as it is, but taking action now could, in the long term, be better than sitting and waiting and keeping a low profile. The future of the industry is at stake here, as is the nature of our society. Note: this is not a British problem; this is affecting us all, worldwide.
Or maybe I'm just pissed because I ordered a nice new laptop only five days ago. Should arrive tomorrow.
Or maybe I'm just pissed because I ordered a nice new laptop only five days ago. Should arrive tomorrow.