Airport Security (Merged) - Effects on Crew/Staff

[Oh that's super!]

I hope this is allowed in this thread, because this post is not about being an SLF, although it's not about being an operating crew member.

I'd like to know what happens to those who are going as supernumery (or even pax) for the purpose of conducting in-flight audits. We tend to carry books (manuals), audit sheets, pens and something to rest the paper on. As auditors do not normally travel as part of the operating crew, does it mean we'll have to audit from our brain!?

[blue up]

Just got back to EG** from LE** after an early morning flight. Whilst standing like a row of nice little ducks with our shoes off, waiting patiently for somebody to pat us down, I saw a member of non-uniformed security staff come past the "Ping" machine (what is it called?) and set off the pinger. He then carried on and went over to his desk without being checked by any other members of staff.

Kinda defeats the object of having security staff if they openly flout the rules. I noticed that he made zero attempt to take his shoes off!

I imagine the Scrimshaw will be writing another episode of his story in the next BALPA "Log"

PS The bagage loaders have a drinks dispenser airside.

[chandlers dad]

Lets not forget that many of us commute to our jobs AS PASSENGERS on these airlines!

In 10 days I fly on BA from the states to Heathrow AS A PASSENGER, then after landing put the bars on my shoulders, put my cap on my head and only then become one of the pilots. If I land in the UK and both of my bags are not there then I cannot continue my journey as the tools of my trade are not with me. Normally I take enough to make it for one day "on the road" with me in my carry-on case, hoping that if my other bag is lost that it will be found in 24 hours.

Under the current regulations I am not supposed to carry my pilots license, medical or spare glasses with me in the cabin. Right now we are being told we can carry one pair of glasses, passport and airline ticket in a plastic bag, thats it. To tell the truth the license and medical will not ever leave my person but the powers that be do not need to know that.

Now we are looking at "deadheading" in uniform as its the only way to guarantee that we will arrive with at least one set of flying clothes on our body, but thats the last thing that I want to do on my time off, parading around in uniform.

If there was any other way to get our plane, which we pick up at Luton, it would be going through somewhere other than Heathrow after the way they are acting right now. This is effecting flight crew in their job and as well as passengers.

[Final 3 Greens]

Chandler's Dad

We may have slightly crossed swords last night but I would like to say that I completely sympathise with the siutation that you are facing.

It is ludicrous that you cannot carry your licence and spare glasses with you and having to travel in uniform is not good news.

[Oh that's super!]

I do feel that pilot licence and medical cert should never have to be checked in. If authorities are concerned about security, then the most secure place for them to be is on the pilot's person. Considering there aren't that many pilots around, it won't be too much of an imposition to manually check through (i.e. flick through) the 'book' to make sure it has nothing sinister hiding in there.

Whereas, putting it in the hold could well cause more danger - by risking it to be stolen and possibly misused etc.

To make pilots check those in (even when they're paxing) is not in line with a sensible security precaution.

[chandlers dad]

Final,

Not a problem, lets work together to figure out a way around this mess.

Just checked with BA and we are being told that we are allowed to bring onboard "documents necessary to this flight" only and if I get some jerk at security, a pilots license and medical is not needed and I risk losing the documents.

Lets see, I land in the UK and one or all of my checked bags are missing. One day later its delivered to my hotel, and after opening it I find that my "professional" wallet is missing, among other items. Gone are my Bermuda, Danish, German and FAA ATP licenses, along with my engineers (A&P) license, medical certs (EMT/Paramedic) and all shot records along with my flight crew ID, which is not required to be a passenger on the flight.

Now someone has all of my licenses, ID card and a pilots uniform. Does anyone else see a problem with this? The FAA ATP does not have a photo on it, nor does the medical, so anyone can take these two things, put my uniform on and for the most part look like a professional pilot. Its not hard to change the photo on most crew ID's, so clip one of these on and the image is complete.

Now if they can remember for a while what V1, V2 and VR, along with the emergency xponder code is, they might pass for a pilot if the person asking is the typical security guard.

Pilots traveling on airlines as passengers will become a problem in this situation if they are not allowed some leeway on what they can bring in the cabin. All its going to take is one missing checked bag full of crew items and a call to the press and this will blow wide open. Am flying in 10 days and hope all my things make it ok.

CD

[Arkroyal]

This is such complete and utter bolleaux I find it difficult to believe.
When I return to work tomorrow, I expect to be able to carry my lunch aboard.

If I can't - I'll go home.The world has lost all reason and common sense.

Hell, if I want do crash the bloody plane, I just use the stick.

[Oh that's super!]

What happens with those airlines that don't provide crew meals?
Would they be able to carry their lunch aboard?

[Arkroyal]

I work for one such. Am I supposed to live off sandwiches for the forseeable future?

It is ludicrous that you cannot carry your licence and spare glasses with you

It is a condition of my license that I do, so I cannot fly without them.

I say again: Utter bolleaux.

[fireflybob]

In any other industry we would all be out on strike by now!

Although a pilot I am currently employed in the railway industry and a member of the RMT union. I am sure that if members of the RMT were not able to go to work with essential items (such as food!), an immediate walkout would be on the cards!

Whilst realising that the airlines are going through a tough time and that most crew are bending over backwards to keep the show on the road, maybe it's time to show some "moral courage" !

[LD Max]

Originally Posted by fireflybob

In any other industry we would all be out on strike by now!
Although a pilot I am currently employed in the railway industry and a member of the RMT union. I am sure that if members of the RMT were not able to go to work with essential items (such as food!), an immediate walkout would be on the cards!
Whilst realising that the airlines are going through a tough time and that most crew are bending over backwards to keep the show on the road, maybe it's time to show some "moral courage" !

Of some interest - not only for it's content but for the speed of publication - is this extremely detailed item appearing on wikipedia regarding the current situation. Where do they get their information (and authors) from??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_tr..._aircraft_plot

In the section under "Hand Luggage Restrictions" is the following passage:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

It was suggested in The Times that the restrictions on hand baggage will be "enforced pending a decision from the National Aviation Security Committee following which they may be made permanent. This was confirmed by the Minister of Transport on BBC News. Travel agencies raise concern that maintaining such severe restrictions will greatly decrease interest in air transportation, especially among business class customers.

Concern is not just amongst travel agencies is it! What about us Aircrew? What about the Airlines? What about the Unions?

What representations are we (collectively) going to make this "National Aviation Security Committee" (which I personally have never heard of) to end this madness and ensure it does NOT become a permanent feature.

[Edit] Ok, I've found out who the "National Aviation Security Committee" are. Part of the DFT "Transec".
Info from the DFT website includes:

Originally Posted by DFT

Changes were made in early 2004 to the terms of reference and composition of the National Aviation Security Committee (NASC). Representatives were drawn from more senior figures in the aviation industry, for example board members with a responsibility for security, senior figures across government at Director level, senior trade union representatives, and senior management from TRANSEC. This has provided a genuine opportunity for Government and industry to engage at a strategic level on aviation security issues, and offers a means of gaining assurance that the National Aviation Security Programme is providing the most appropriate level of security for the industry, and that the different parts of Government engaged in security are working productively together and with industry.

If board members of NASC include senior members of the aviation industry and senior trade union reps, who are they, and where are they now?

[chandlers dad]

Originally Posted by LD Max

Of some interest - not only for it's content but for the speed of publication - is this extremely detailed item appearing on wikipedia regarding the current situation. Where do they get their information (and authors) from??

Wiki comes from you and me. Anyone can post info there. Go to the page you posted then up top look and you will see a tab called "history."

Its here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...action=history

Now the one thing that we all need to realize is that since "anyone" can post there, that its accuracy is always suspect. Also, anyone can register as anyone they like, after setting up a email account. There may be more secure and better sources of information. What is on Wiki may be accurate or it could be wild speculation. You just do not know...

[LD Max]

Originally Posted by chandlers dad

Its here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...action=history
What is on Wiki may be accurate or it could be wild speculation. You just do not know...

Ah, I didn't know. I'm not overtly familliar with it. Thanks for that. But it doesn't change the message. I think we're all pretty agreed on here that what is happening is OTT. If the media reports are true that this may become a permanent feature, then I believe we need direct action now.

How we go about it is beyond me. Isn't this what we have BALPA and the other pilot unions for? Any BALPA reps out there who can tell us what to do now? I'm a BALPA (associate) member but a very small fish in a very big pond.

[Edit] See my edit of my previous post regarding NASC.

[Easy Glider]

What are they taking away from us?

This question is for pilots operating out of LGW or LHR over the lsat couple of days.

What exactly are these jokers in so called security trying to take off us before operating a flight?

Are we allowed our flight bags? calculators? mobile phones etc etc etc?

What about food? I always take my own. Can't stand the slop served on board. Will they try and take that too?

I am operating out of LGW tomorrow so any info would be much appreciated.

[scroggs]

Originally Posted by Final 3 Greens

Scroggs

This will impact crews if it goes on for much longer.

I think we operating crew have sufficient intelligence to understand the impact on our companies' bottom lines that these measures are having and will have if they are maintained. Nevertheless, the issues for operating crew are different than those for passengers, and it is not helpful to confuse the two. Hence the request.


For clarification, I refer you to Danny's post on the subject. In particular, this (the first) sentence: "Once again, I reiterate... this thread is about how this all affects us as aircrew. We already know about the effects on passengers and there is no need to discuss that on this thread. If you do then you will be wasting your time as the posts will be deleted and/or moved to similar threads that do relate the effect on pax."

If that's not sufficiently clear, his next post says: "Let's see how long before someone posts the question about where their posts have gone. I'm really in the mood for a banning at the moment".

Are we getting the message yet?

Scroggs

[eidah]

Originally Posted by Oh that's super!

What happens with those airlines that don't provide crew meals?
Would they be able to carry their lunch aboard?

Yes they are able to carry there only food aboard the aircraft however it cant be in liquid form such as a yogurt would be confiscated. Deodrants and aftershaves also confiscated so the pax are going to have to put up with smelly crew. Water cant be carried through the security point however an empty bottle can be then you can fill it up once past security. Also cigarrettes and lighters cant be carried through security, however wh smith's are still selling both on airside.

[chandlers dad]

You are correct that all flight crew should be contacting their representatives now. Both your union reps as well as emails to your chief pilot, safety officer, all of your govt and local elected representatives and even AOPA.

The more people who realize that one, the flight crew should be working WITH security and not viewed as a possible terrorist, and two, that we have had complete and total control of their lives for many years while flying the planes and not abused that relationship, so keeping us from carrying tools necessary to do our job into the cockpit, as well as food to keep us nourished during the journey ARE A MINIMUM. Keeping the flight crew from having nail clippers or a nail file is stupid, when they are then locked behind the cockpit door and have a crash axe right behind their seats.

Regarding Wiki, the information there may be leaked by someone who cannot say something in the open, and thus excellent information, but on the other hand it could be pure speculation like the nutcase who says that no airplanes ever hit the WTC during 9/11 and that its all a govt plot. Without vetting it no one knows. Its a good place to start for many things but is not nor should not be the ultimate authority as long as anyone is allowed to post there.

[Loose rivets]

So, these are all the gripes, but what are you going to do?


In my last post, I suggested an urgent need for changes, but ‘one step at a time...go with the flow for the moment.' BUT, where I read of blatant foolishness, like being parted from your licence and uniform, then total refusal of these ‘orders' is called for.

Again, it will be our beleaguered employers that will be hit, but some things go over the mark.

As of today, there should be a hot-line made available to a government official, the number issued to licenced aircrew. Any madness like allowing a complete hijacking kit to be in the hold, has to be stopped immediately. No nonsense about calling 9-5 five days a week. Such is the emergency, that the government should be taking care of the crew's concerns...NOW. 24-7 .

We are faced with a crisis that will bring the industry to its knees, or worse. Even now, I doubt that the seriousness is really being accepted. ‘It will all calm down...always has in the past' mentality. No it won't, aviation as we know it will be destroyed from within, by ill qualified people grabbing at the reins.


NB I do not under-value the engineers situation. I was born an engineer. The madness of their treatment was a subject of a long post years ago and their frustrations must be as great as the pilot's, but this thread is primarily about aircrew getting to their place of work, whit the tools of the trade.

[Easy Glider]

What are they taking away from us?

This question is for pilots operating out of LGW or LHR over the last couole of days.

What exactly are these GUYS in security trying to take away from us before being allowed to operate a flight?

Are we allowed our fligth bags? calculators? mobile phones? keys etc etc etc?

What about food? I always take my own as I can't stand the slop served on board. Will they try and take that too?

I am operating out of LGW tomorrow so any feed back would be useful

[NG_Kaptain]

What are they taking away from us?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This question is for pilots operating out of LGW or LHR over the last couole of days.
What exactly are these GUYS in security trying to take away from us before being allowed to operate a flight?
Are we allowed our fligth bags? calculators? mobile phones? keys etc etc etc?
What about food? I always take my own as I can't stand the slop served on board. Will they try and take that too?
I am operating out of LGW tomorrow so any feed back would be useful

We go through a dedicated crew security checkpoint and are dropped off at the aircraft by bus. The EGLL security staff have been cordial and understanding to our crews, the restrictions on us are for food and liquids, we have been allowed our nav bags, laptops and any other items we normally carry on flights. I'm coming over tomorrow so will see for myself but the above was told to me by a collegue who left LHR on thursday.