Airport Security (Merged) - Effects on Crew/Staff
Mmmmm PPruuune!
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This is a highly emotive subject which resurrects each time there is an incident of sorts. What frustrates me is the lack of direction and consistency with regard to crew and yes I am afraid I do consider myself to be different to a passenger. When I say me I mean Flight Crew - pilots, cabin crew, engineers. Security generally consists of several layers or levels all aiming to target (sorry poor choice of vocab) different threats. In fact you could easily apply James Reason's swiss cheese model to it. To become crew you have to pass many and varied levels of security in the process of becoming qualified. A passenger - zilch, zero, all he needs is photographic id period - if international, a passport of sorts. As a passenger it is easy to organise being on the same flight as someone else but to organise a whole crew of choice. Why not have crew prosessed through security as a whole crew with flight paperwork etc. Sorry I digress and will not regurgitate all of the points made before but:
Why is there not a common national policy applied to the processing of crew at all UK airports?
The problem is not going to away; it needs sorting & above all there needs to be some consistency with an acceptence of the authority and responsibility we have as Flight Crew.
Why is there not a common national policy applied to the processing of crew at all UK airports?
The problem is not going to away; it needs sorting & above all there needs to be some consistency with an acceptence of the authority and responsibility we have as Flight Crew.
The Analog Kid
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BAA Have Had Enough
Stringent security searches which have led to long delays and cancellations at Heathrow are not sustainable, airport operator BAA has warned.
The airport cancelled a third of flights on Saturday evening in a bid to speed its return to a normal schedule.
Tony Douglas, BAA's chief executive officer for Heathrow, said: "Quite simply I don't know how long it's likely to go on, but it's clearly a set of measures that are unprecedented and by virtue of what they've come in to enforce, they're not sustainable measures."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/4787161.stm
Cheers,
Rich.
The airport cancelled a third of flights on Saturday evening in a bid to speed its return to a normal schedule.
Tony Douglas, BAA's chief executive officer for Heathrow, said: "Quite simply I don't know how long it's likely to go on, but it's clearly a set of measures that are unprecedented and by virtue of what they've come in to enforce, they're not sustainable measures."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/4787161.stm
Cheers,
Rich.
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Go one step futher and make it one procedure for all flight crews worldwide.
As you get your medical renewed your send a copy and are given an ID from that? No current first class medical and no ID?
How can this be made to work but the above is correct, we need to do something and make it stick, if not only for the UK but would be nice to have something worldwide.
As you get your medical renewed your send a copy and are given an ID from that? No current first class medical and no ID?
How can this be made to work but the above is correct, we need to do something and make it stick, if not only for the UK but would be nice to have something worldwide.
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Time for a Poll on Industrial Action
Given the rising concern expressed among Flight Crew and Aviation Professionals regarding the excessive and unneccessary Security Clampdown at British Airports, I would like to propose that the PPRuNe administrators open a POLL on taking Industrial Action over this issue.
If, as I suspect, there appears to be a majority in favour of doing so, this should provide some collective incentive to contact our union reps forthwith.
On the other hand, if we find little support for industrial action, it should help us all take a proportionate view of the situation.
The justification for industrial action should be obvious:
The provisions of the Security Clampdown in the UK which have been imposed on Airlines and their Crews are of such draconian severity, that they not only obstruct members in exercising their responsibilities in the course of their contractual obligations, but are begining to compromise operational safety.
Furthermore, the effect of these security measures on the traveling public is to severely restrict the freedoms and economics of travel to such an extent that they are jeopardising the economic security of the airlines and members' jobs in the longer term.
Industrial action is called for until such time as proportionate security measures are introduced for the traveling public, to enable the reinstatement of Carry-On luggage including Laptops, Phones, Reading matter, Personal hygene, adequate refreshment and other essential portable items or equipment which may be reasonably used in the course of business or leisure during the flight. Crews should be subject to dedicated security screening appropriate to their professional needs.
(Re-word as necessary)
If, as I suspect, there appears to be a majority in favour of doing so, this should provide some collective incentive to contact our union reps forthwith.
On the other hand, if we find little support for industrial action, it should help us all take a proportionate view of the situation.
The justification for industrial action should be obvious:
The provisions of the Security Clampdown in the UK which have been imposed on Airlines and their Crews are of such draconian severity, that they not only obstruct members in exercising their responsibilities in the course of their contractual obligations, but are begining to compromise operational safety.
Furthermore, the effect of these security measures on the traveling public is to severely restrict the freedoms and economics of travel to such an extent that they are jeopardising the economic security of the airlines and members' jobs in the longer term.
Industrial action is called for until such time as proportionate security measures are introduced for the traveling public, to enable the reinstatement of Carry-On luggage including Laptops, Phones, Reading matter, Personal hygene, adequate refreshment and other essential portable items or equipment which may be reasonably used in the course of business or leisure during the flight. Crews should be subject to dedicated security screening appropriate to their professional needs.
(Re-word as necessary)
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Originally Posted by Greek God
...Why is there not a common national policy applied to the processing of crew at all UK airports?
The problem is not going to away; it needs sorting & above all there needs to be some consistency with an acceptence of the authority and responsibility we have as Flight Crew.
The problem is not going to away; it needs sorting & above all there needs to be some consistency with an acceptence of the authority and responsibility we have as Flight Crew.
In our modern times, it should be possible to introduce a standardized patch for pilots of all european airlines. By "standardized" I mean a chip with a standardized set of data including a digital picture on it. Customize the patch with whichever airline logo you want, but the chip should be machine-readable at all european airports. That way securitypersonel could make shure in an instant that the person wanting to pass is indeed Cpt Smith of British Airways or FO Mueller of Lufthansa and not some terrorist impersonating either one. Verify idendity and be done with it! That's all there's to it and life would be a whole lot easier for us all.
I've asked my company's security department several times, why such a patch could not be introduced. Guess what the answer was:
politics
DL
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I am sure for all of us with ALPA here in Canada, we support from afar. I was subjected to it all at LGW...nightmare.
The operational safety aspect seems to have been missed by the mandarins in CAA and DoT ivory towers...and the traveling public who help pay the wages of us all won't be tolerant for very long.
As an example....the train service between Toronto and Montreal is pretty slothful, but guess what ? These past 2 days it's been jam packed...
The operational safety aspect seems to have been missed by the mandarins in CAA and DoT ivory towers...and the traveling public who help pay the wages of us all won't be tolerant for very long.
As an example....the train service between Toronto and Montreal is pretty slothful, but guess what ? These past 2 days it's been jam packed...
Last edited by GreatCircle; 12th Aug 2006 at 18:50.
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POLL on Industrial Action
Originally Posted by Loose rivets
So, these are all the gripes, but what are you going to do?
We are faced with a crisis that will bring the industry to its knees, or worse. Even now, I doubt that the seriousness is really being accepted. ‘It will all calm down...always has in the past' mentality. No it won't, aviation as we know it will be destroyed from within, by ill qualified people grabbing at the reins.
We are faced with a crisis that will bring the industry to its knees, or worse. Even now, I doubt that the seriousness is really being accepted. ‘It will all calm down...always has in the past' mentality. No it won't, aviation as we know it will be destroyed from within, by ill qualified people grabbing at the reins.
May I invite all respected contributors to this thread to voice their opinions on industrial action in this new thread I've started HERE.
Hopefully the administrators will open this up as a proper "Poll".
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Bring on the poll.
In the meantime, I'd start investing your spare cash in Eurotunnel for when we all go under. Mostly I blame Al Q but a large portion is reserved for those unthinking muppets in the Department for Transport.
In the meantime, I'd start investing your spare cash in Eurotunnel for when we all go under. Mostly I blame Al Q but a large portion is reserved for those unthinking muppets in the Department for Transport.
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There is a place for Industrial Action and this is not it!
We are are the highest state of security for a reason ...the reason is a suspected attack is still imminent (according to the US sources several of these headcases are still on the run... probably with materials to carry out an attack).
A week of PAX inconvenience is not going to have a 9/11 effect on our job security...another large scale attack on aviation will.
You want to give pax their mobile phones (which they can't use) back...these were a critical part of the detonator. Yes it probably is OTT at the moment...but these restrictions were agreed months ago by cross section committees. They won't reverse them because pilots spit their dummies out.They will downgrade when enough information is available to do so without compromising safety. If there is any doubt there is no doubt.
We are are the highest state of security for a reason ...the reason is a suspected attack is still imminent (according to the US sources several of these headcases are still on the run... probably with materials to carry out an attack).
A week of PAX inconvenience is not going to have a 9/11 effect on our job security...another large scale attack on aviation will.
You want to give pax their mobile phones (which they can't use) back...these were a critical part of the detonator. Yes it probably is OTT at the moment...but these restrictions were agreed months ago by cross section committees. They won't reverse them because pilots spit their dummies out.They will downgrade when enough information is available to do so without compromising safety. If there is any doubt there is no doubt.
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Originally Posted by alosaurus
There is a place for Industrial Action and this is not it!
You want to give pax their mobile phones (which they can't use) back...these were a critical part of the detonator.
You want to give pax their mobile phones (which they can't use) back...these were a critical part of the detonator.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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You want to give pax their mobile phones (which they can't use) back...these were a critical part of the detonator. Yes it probably is OTT at the moment...but these restrictions were agreed months ago by cross section committees.
I don't want to give pax their mobile phones.
I want to be able to get on an aeroplane that I am about to operate with all the kit, including my toothpaste, which I normally take, ALL of which will be locked in the flight deck with me. Incidentally, there is a set of flight controls in there which can cause all sorts of havoc in the wrong hands, with or without a tube of Crest.
I can understand why the restrictions have been imposed on passengers. It is TOTALLY POINTLESS to impose them on pilots.
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Originally Posted by alosaurus
There is a place for Industrial Action and this is not it!
We are are the highest state of security for a reason ...the reason is a suspected attack is still imminent (according to the US sources several of these headcases are still on the run... probably with materials to carry out an attack).
We are are the highest state of security for a reason ...the reason is a suspected attack is still imminent (according to the US sources several of these headcases are still on the run... probably with materials to carry out an attack).
"Proportionate Security" doesn't mean "No Security". It means using intelligence.... intelligently.Pax are part of my concern (see original post) because if we make it impossible for them to do business, we won't have one eventually. And you don't need a mobile phone for a detonator. A wrist watch or, (for that matter), a single swan vestas would do the job. Get the rubber gloves on if you're going to remove all risks. As a commercial pilot, I am also a PAX, and speaking entirely for myself... no phone, no laptop, no flight. So yes, I DO want to give the pax their phones back. There was nothing wrong with the X-ray and Sniff procedures as far as portable electronic items were concerned. All we need is a bit more vigilance in the light of intelligence received.
But yeah, primary concern is, as you all say, to do with how we can continue to do our jobs as pilots in the present environment - hence this poll.
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You're right alosaurus, of course. What is being said is if this state of affairs continues for more than one or two weeks, then something has to be done. It's all about a proportionate response, and from what I saw at LGW, they weren't ready to implement it for crews, staff or our customers.
In the longer term, intelligence led security is the only way forward - taking away water bottles ad finitum is a knee jerk reaction for the ultra short term.
I noted that one of the suspects rounded up has already been released without charge, by the way.
In the longer term, intelligence led security is the only way forward - taking away water bottles ad finitum is a knee jerk reaction for the ultra short term.
I noted that one of the suspects rounded up has already been released without charge, by the way.
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If these restrictions were agreed upon months ago the why didn't the useless muppets of a cross section comittee put a contingency plan in place for the aditional security required?????????
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I'm not saying they are not a concern. Just at the moment [ie now this evening] I am trying to sort out the practicalities of working round the country for days with no toiletries. Obviously problems concerning passengers are of huge concern but I am talking about my problem for me now this moment.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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...and why didn't they think of the practical problems crew would face working away for days.