Airport Security (Merged) - Effects on Crew/Staff
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I did a nightstop last night. Crew bags had to be checked in, with special tags attached. No flight bags allowed, I only took my headset, pens, kneeboard and calculator. Did I miss not having my flight case? Not at all. I flew 6 sectors, and didn't miss a thing. Just shows, we carry all sorts of crap around that we don't actually need. I didn't feel inconvenienced at all.
That said, for flight crew its a bit of a joke. If I wanted to kill a few people, then the fire axe would take care of my colleague next to me, and on short finals DTO the terminal, and I reckon I could take out a few thousand.
One of my colleagues was refused through security with a half eaten packet of Jelly Babies. Wonderful!
JF
That said, for flight crew its a bit of a joke. If I wanted to kill a few people, then the fire axe would take care of my colleague next to me, and on short finals DTO the terminal, and I reckon I could take out a few thousand.
One of my colleagues was refused through security with a half eaten packet of Jelly Babies. Wonderful!
JF
aka Capt PPRuNe
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I'm not sure which bit of:
some of you don't understand but it really is a waste of your time and mine if I have to keep deleting twenty or thirty posts at a time because you are debating things that are not for this forum. 
Let's see how long before someone posts the question about where their posts have gone. I'm really in the mood for a banning at the moment.
Once again, I reiterate... this thread is about how this all affects us as aircrew. We already know about the effects on passengers and there is no need to discuss that on this thread. If you do then you will be wasting your time as the posts will be deleted and/or moved to similar threads that do relate the effect on pax.
Let's see how long before someone posts the question about where their posts have gone. I'm really in the mood for a banning at the moment.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Yesterday, here's what happened to me and my crew:
- One kitkat, opened, and taken
- One half eaten toffee crisp (mine), chucked
- A bottle of tylenol - basically aspirin, told couldnt be taken on
- A discussion between the screeners about my shoes (smelly yes, threat no - well maybe to health)
- made to take off my wing badge (has a needle clip on the back, and caused yet another
discussion
- a significant poke around my hat
- laptops - lets not go there
- ladies "items" for one of our more mature flight attendants, examined in a most unflattering manner
- told not to question UK policy....for my own good ( name of screener taken, written down and damning report made - let's see where that ends up)
- a gun totting police officer in a fetching shade of navy blue, threatening in the distance, and without asking, looking at my 2 sets of ID already shown to the screeners...
In other words, total carnage.
Look, as crews, we all understand the safety and security piece, and we all know we are in a very privileged position operating metal tubes stuffed full of petrol, gas or whatever you want it call it...but commonsense has to come into play somewhere. Perhaps I should have become a train driver...or engineer in these parts....
P.S. As passengers are our living - i.e. without them, we starve, a little more understanding on how they are feeling might be appreciated.
- One kitkat, opened, and taken
- One half eaten toffee crisp (mine), chucked
- A bottle of tylenol - basically aspirin, told couldnt be taken on
- A discussion between the screeners about my shoes (smelly yes, threat no - well maybe to health)
- made to take off my wing badge (has a needle clip on the back, and caused yet another
discussion- a significant poke around my hat
- laptops - lets not go there
- ladies "items" for one of our more mature flight attendants, examined in a most unflattering manner
- told not to question UK policy....for my own good ( name of screener taken, written down and damning report made - let's see where that ends up)
- a gun totting police officer in a fetching shade of navy blue, threatening in the distance, and without asking, looking at my 2 sets of ID already shown to the screeners...
In other words, total carnage.
Look, as crews, we all understand the safety and security piece, and we all know we are in a very privileged position operating metal tubes stuffed full of petrol, gas or whatever you want it call it...but commonsense has to come into play somewhere. Perhaps I should have become a train driver...or engineer in these parts....
P.S. As passengers are our living - i.e. without them, we starve, a little more understanding on how they are feeling might be appreciated.
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where do we stop
Policeman walk through security with their Automatic weapons. This is allowed because they have a uniform and ID. The security people do not know them. Why should it be different for Pilots? It would be much harder to impersonate a Pilot to the point where you have control of the aircraft in flight than it would be to impersonate a Police officer.
This is madness!
BM
Are BAA staff subjected to the same measures as the crew. Who checks the security staff who is to say one of them is not a terrorist what a great opotunity they let there mate through who is a terrorist. I know they have to be security wise however at the moment its madness I hear now crew are allowed to take food through the staff entrances but not liquids and how long is all this going to carry on for??
This is madness!
BM
Are BAA staff subjected to the same measures as the crew. Who checks the security staff who is to say one of them is not a terrorist what a great opotunity they let there mate through who is a terrorist. I know they have to be security wise however at the moment its madness I hear now crew are allowed to take food through the staff entrances but not liquids and how long is all this going to carry on for??
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Originally Posted by eidah
Policeman walk through security with their Automatic weapons. This is allowed because they have a uniform and ID. The security people do not know them. Why should it be different for Pilots? It would be much harder to impersonate a Pilot to the point where you have control of the aircraft in flight than it would be to impersonate a Police officer.
This is madness!
BM
Are BAA staff subjected to the same measures as the crew. Who checks the security staff who is to say one of them is not a terrorist what a great opotunity they let there mate through who is a terrorist. I know they have to be security wise however at the moment its madness I hear now crew are allowed to take food through the staff entrances but not liquids and how long is all this going to carry on for??
This is madness!
BM
Are BAA staff subjected to the same measures as the crew. Who checks the security staff who is to say one of them is not a terrorist what a great opotunity they let there mate through who is a terrorist. I know they have to be security wise however at the moment its madness I hear now crew are allowed to take food through the staff entrances but not liquids and how long is all this going to carry on for??
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IF A PILOT WANTS TO DO A 9/11, BUT BIGGER, NOTHING, BUT NOTHING, CAN STOP HIM/HER.
All we want to do is get on with our jobs, Security is in our interests, but let's have some reason applied to it, please. Security should be working with us, not alienating us.
All we want to do is get on with our jobs, Security is in our interests, but let's have some reason applied to it, please. Security should be working with us, not alienating us.
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Originally Posted by Jockflyer
I did a nightstop last night. Crew bags had to be checked in, with special tags attached. No flight bags allowed, I only took my headset, pens, kneeboard and calculator. Did I miss not having my flight case? Not at all. I flew 6 sectors, and didn't miss a thing. Just shows, we carry all sorts of crap around that we don't actually need. I didn't feel inconvenienced at all.
That said, for flight crew its a bit of a joke. If I wanted to kill a few people, then the fire axe would take care of my colleague next to me, and on short finals DTO the terminal, and I reckon I could take out a few thousand.
One of my colleagues was refused through security with a half eaten packet of Jelly Babies. Wonderful!
JF
That said, for flight crew its a bit of a joke. If I wanted to kill a few people, then the fire axe would take care of my colleague next to me, and on short finals DTO the terminal, and I reckon I could take out a few thousand.
One of my colleagues was refused through security with a half eaten packet of Jelly Babies. Wonderful!
JF
Its written into our ops manual that we have to carry all our electronic items (cell phone, blackberry, laptop) as "carry on" luggage due to many losses where the flight was grounded due to theft.
As well when I am picking up a "green" airplane at the factory I ALWAYS carry a hand held GPS as a backup just in case the screens go dark up front. Now they want me to DR my way across the Atlantic with no backup? They can go screw themselves and this is rediclous to throw safety out of the window when worrying that the flight crew cannot be trusted with anything electronic while they are sitting in the cockpit surrounded by the controls of the plane.
This is going to mushroom once things settle down and the losses will be enormous, and the back lash will cause the pax to either stop flying or demand changes. These "knee jerk" reactions are crazy and as JF says, we have a crash axe in the cockpit that is far more dangerous than anything we have been allowed to have on the plane in the last 5-6 years.
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Blah, blah, moan, moan, whinge, whinge (again) about the illogical and farsical security charade flightcrew have to go through on a daily basis. But we take this carp every day like sheep - so what are we, the thousands of crew who ultimately keep this aviation industry running, going to do about it? Unless the unions are prepared to take action (direct if need be) which in turn will bring pressure on airline managements to sort out this ongoing fiasco with the faceless blunties parked at their desks in Whitehall, there will never be any change. Threaten a series of one day, national stoppages until special procedures for aircrew are negotiated - then you'll see an improvement.
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Originally Posted by MaxReheat
Blah, blah, moan, moan, whinge, whinge (again) about the illogical and farsical security charade flightcrew have to go through on a daily basis. But we take this carp every day like sheep - so what are we, the thousands of crew who ultimately keep this aviation industry running, going to do about it? Unless the unions are prepared to take action (direct if need be) which in turn will bring pressure on airline managements to sort out this ongoing fiasco with the faceless blunties parked at their desks in Whitehall, there will never be any change. Threaten a series of one day, national stoppages until special procedures for aircrew are negotiated - then you'll see an improvement.
I mean maybe they check pilots just incase someone has forged or stolen a security pass and put a pilots uniform on. I really don't know why but everyone including the public need to put ideas forward on how to deal with this.
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Originally Posted by MaxReheat
Blah, blah, moan, moan, whinge, whinge (again) about the illogical and farsical security charade flightcrew have to go through on a daily basis. But we take this carp every day like sheep - so what are we, the thousands of crew who ultimately keep this aviation industry running, going to do about it? Unless the unions are prepared to take action (direct if need be) which in turn will bring pressure on airline managements to sort out this ongoing fiasco with the faceless blunties parked at their desks in Whitehall, there will never be any change. Threaten a series of one day, national stoppages until special procedures for aircrew are negotiated - then you'll see an improvement.
Seriously, all sides of the argument have validity - flightcrew and other holders of secure area passes are not immune from outside influences - it is a question of a measured response for both flight/cabin crew, other staff and our customers. When that is in place, the rose coloured specs can be dusted off for another wee while.
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Originally Posted by MaxReheat
Blah, blah, moan, moan, whinge, whinge (again) about the illogical and farsical security charade flightcrew have to go through on a daily basis. But we take this carp every day like sheep - so what are we, the thousands of crew who ultimately keep this aviation industry running, going to do about it? Unless the unions are prepared to take action (direct if need be) which in turn will bring pressure on airline managements to sort out this ongoing fiasco with the faceless blunties parked at their desks in Whitehall, there will never be any change. Threaten a series of one day, national stoppages until special procedures for aircrew are negotiated - then you'll see an improvement.
We have waffled in many cases, bending over backwards (not allowing a crewmember on because they had a package of Jelly Bellies is crazy) to do anything that these people demand, then are slapped in the face by security when told that your wings have "sharp points" on them and cannot be on your uniform!
Sorry but agree and feel that its time to stand up and demand that we be treated as the professionals that we are, and at the same time ask that the resources that are for the most part wasted on checking flight crew be used to concentrate on the passengers. We are not the ones blowing up the planes, its the pax and they are the ones that need to be given increased screening.
If the managers in our industry actually went flying a little more often rathe than a quick two sectors before golf on Friday afternoon, more might be done to educate the men from the ministry.
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Nobody has a problem with flight and cabin crew being exposed to personal X-ray and baggage security.
However there needs to be a practical input aswell. We carry an enormous weight of responsibility for the safety and security of our passengers and aircraft, being at the very frontline of the operation. Being in direct control of the aircraft's flightpath infers that a large element of trust has already been placed on our shoulders by the state authorities, and as such I hope that in the fullness of time the regulators allow us to take with us what we feel we need to perform effectively in our place of duty.
Outside the car keys and mobile phone debate, some companies provide only minimal (and occasionally sub-standard) crew food which is very often privately supplimented by the more health conscious ... I hope that this will be allowed to continue (maybe excluding liquid refreshment).
Whilst security can never be taken too seriously, I do hope that somebody is representing the flying crew community to highlight our needs and requirements before the final policy is decided upon.
However there needs to be a practical input aswell. We carry an enormous weight of responsibility for the safety and security of our passengers and aircraft, being at the very frontline of the operation. Being in direct control of the aircraft's flightpath infers that a large element of trust has already been placed on our shoulders by the state authorities, and as such I hope that in the fullness of time the regulators allow us to take with us what we feel we need to perform effectively in our place of duty.
Outside the car keys and mobile phone debate, some companies provide only minimal (and occasionally sub-standard) crew food which is very often privately supplimented by the more health conscious ... I hope that this will be allowed to continue (maybe excluding liquid refreshment).
Whilst security can never be taken too seriously, I do hope that somebody is representing the flying crew community to highlight our needs and requirements before the final policy is decided upon.
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Chandler's Dad makes a good point - the very one I made to a screener yesterday about the PAX. Ready.....I was lost for words....
"You lot think you're sooo special. Well, you're not. Remember Egyptair - up to his neck in debt, put the plane in the sea. Get used to it."
That's what made me write the report about him.....can't even blame the time of the month in his instance
"You lot think you're sooo special. Well, you're not. Remember Egyptair - up to his neck in debt, put the plane in the sea. Get used to it."
That's what made me write the report about him.....can't even blame the time of the month in his instance
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As a pax and a professional (member of a recognised professional body and qualified as a Dr in Italy) I do not object to being security screened in the same way as non professionals, since in the greater scheme of things, status is irrelevant when travelling by air.
I suggest that some of the "professionals" commenting in the last couple of posts would do well to develop a sense of humility and accept the rigours of the 21st century.
And by the way (for those in the UK), your government does not place you in the same social groupings as professionals, you are ranked with train drivers.
I happen to think that unfair, but please don't reinforce the stereotype.
I suggest that some of the "professionals" commenting in the last couple of posts would do well to develop a sense of humility and accept the rigours of the 21st century.
And by the way (for those in the UK), your government does not place you in the same social groupings as professionals, you are ranked with train drivers.
I happen to think that unfair, but please don't reinforce the stereotype.
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Originally Posted by Final 3 Greens
Good - its nice to win awards.
Furthermore, developing a tongue in cheek sense of humour, as portrayed by some (including me) on this board, is a form of escape from the frustration we all inevitably feel from the recent events.
Thank you for recognizing the report was unfair to our hard working colleagues on the flight-decks of the UK.
Last edited by GreatCircle; 11th Aug 2006 at 18:59.
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it does seem like the security servies are going rather overboard in a number of cases
typically in my experience poorly executed procedure is the result of a badly documented and managed procedure so I'm willing to bet that the screeners are probably just doingt he best job they feel they can do (in the vast majority of cases) with some pretty poorly defined guidance.
typically in my experience poorly executed procedure is the result of a badly documented and managed procedure so I'm willing to bet that the screeners are probably just doingt he best job they feel they can do (in the vast majority of cases) with some pretty poorly defined guidance.
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These last "security measures" look to me as an exercise of your government to see how far they can go in humiliating the travelling public and flight crews, in response to what the "bad guys" plan to do or threaten to do.
In this helped by the overexcited media, that fuel the terror in the general public thus growing a request for more and stricter procedures.
When will this stop?
I think that most of the public and fight crews are ready to be stripped to their knikers and to be anal probed before any trip they intend to do, instead of smashing all those nice and very expensive x-ray machines and start to enjoy their freedom of travel again.
I would let anybody board any aircraft with anything they want (baseball bats, kives, handguns).
Usually the "bad guys" are a minority, have a look at what happened to the "shoe bomber" or the one that tried to hijack the BA B747 to NBO to appreciate what the "regular passengers and crew" can do when you let them act.
In this helped by the overexcited media, that fuel the terror in the general public thus growing a request for more and stricter procedures.
When will this stop?
I think that most of the public and fight crews are ready to be stripped to their knikers and to be anal probed before any trip they intend to do, instead of smashing all those nice and very expensive x-ray machines and start to enjoy their freedom of travel again.
I would let anybody board any aircraft with anything they want (baseball bats, kives, handguns).
Usually the "bad guys" are a minority, have a look at what happened to the "shoe bomber" or the one that tried to hijack the BA B747 to NBO to appreciate what the "regular passengers and crew" can do when you let them act.