Female pilots at Ryanair???
Grandpa Aerotart
Well I suspect Mercenary A is taking the piss.
Ladies good answers and points all. As a single Dad I think I certainly understand both the need to work and the desire to be a good parent...and how one sometimes interfers with the other.
Certainly as testosterone levels have been progressively reduced in cockpits over the last 60 years safety has been enhanced...in the west anyway...a combination of training it out of the guys and employing more girls...mostly the former thus far but if aircraft cockpits ever approach 50/50 girls/guys you can't argue it would be a bad thing.
I don't think it ever will reach anything like 50/50 for a multitude of reasons but mostly because women aren't attracted to aviation in the numbers men are.
Interesting about the Medical Profession above...a profession with core values closely aligned with traditional gender bias that we seem to want to deny.
Nature or nurture?
I think as a species we are more locked into roles assigned by nature than we care to admit...nature assigned the female the carer/nurturer/mother role and the male the hunter/protector role to our species millions of years ago...the gender confusion we experience in more modern times is a result of human advancement removing the need for the hunter/protector role...so men make bigger weapons and start bigger wars and try and mold society in such a way that they can make themselves feel like they are still the hunters/protectors...most men still get a primevel kick fom going to the woods with a rifle and shooting something...many still do but we all get a kick out of it, even if most of us only think we could still be good at it.
Men, mostly, feel the need to take risks to validate their manhood...this is a replacement for the adrenaline surge we got hunting big dangerous animals way back when we wore animal skins. Witness the increase of adventure/extreme sports over the last 40+ years, same thing.
It's in our genes...nothing we can do about it...no matter how much areas of society wish to deny it.
Modern life means women can do anything they want...they have the access to education and the ability to control fertility...and increasingly are paid well enough so that they can be truly independant of men. I find it interesting that as that has become more the case over the last 40 yrs we see more women saying in effect "Hey...I've been in this fcking cave looking after your kids long enough...give me that weapon I'm off to kill a wooly mammoth"
Ladies good answers and points all. As a single Dad I think I certainly understand both the need to work and the desire to be a good parent...and how one sometimes interfers with the other.
Certainly as testosterone levels have been progressively reduced in cockpits over the last 60 years safety has been enhanced...in the west anyway...a combination of training it out of the guys and employing more girls...mostly the former thus far but if aircraft cockpits ever approach 50/50 girls/guys you can't argue it would be a bad thing.
I don't think it ever will reach anything like 50/50 for a multitude of reasons but mostly because women aren't attracted to aviation in the numbers men are.
Interesting about the Medical Profession above...a profession with core values closely aligned with traditional gender bias that we seem to want to deny.
Nature or nurture?
I think as a species we are more locked into roles assigned by nature than we care to admit...nature assigned the female the carer/nurturer/mother role and the male the hunter/protector role to our species millions of years ago...the gender confusion we experience in more modern times is a result of human advancement removing the need for the hunter/protector role...so men make bigger weapons and start bigger wars and try and mold society in such a way that they can make themselves feel like they are still the hunters/protectors...most men still get a primevel kick fom going to the woods with a rifle and shooting something...many still do but we all get a kick out of it, even if most of us only think we could still be good at it.
Men, mostly, feel the need to take risks to validate their manhood...this is a replacement for the adrenaline surge we got hunting big dangerous animals way back when we wore animal skins. Witness the increase of adventure/extreme sports over the last 40+ years, same thing.
It's in our genes...nothing we can do about it...no matter how much areas of society wish to deny it.
Modern life means women can do anything they want...they have the access to education and the ability to control fertility...and increasingly are paid well enough so that they can be truly independant of men. I find it interesting that as that has become more the case over the last 40 yrs we see more women saying in effect "Hey...I've been in this fcking cave looking after your kids long enough...give me that weapon I'm off to kill a wooly mammoth"
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Nardi,
your answers are all excellent!
Why can't we just be able to do that which we are interesting in doing? without all this prejudice?
If a woman WANTS to fly, she should be able to!!
@MercenaryAli
your answers are all weak.....
are you sure? have you ever ASKED? of course she would have different interests... maybe she also has secrets wishes, like going camping with you etc., but has never dared to ask because of the fear of being turned down!
what are "men things"? only that what society THINKS are men things! Women are given the job of cooking in the home (a "Woman thing"?).... but why then are some of the best chefs MEN? and do we women CARE about that? no, we let them excell at it if they are capable ... why not?
As a teenager I was interested in science. Along with the frilly girl stuff I had astronomy posters on my walls. I studied astronomy for a year... but then met a man, a pilot, and we got married. I came to Germany where I tried to become the typical "Hausfrau" that they expected me to be.
It wasn't until I was 33 that I found out about being able to learn to fly.... my ex never told me I could and I thought you could only learn if you wanted to become a professional!
My initial reason to fly was for HIM! I wanted to learn the cockpit language so I could understand the radio when I flew with him. After my first flight that changed... I decided to learn FOR ME!
And my kids didn't suffer! In fact, I think their mother, me, was a happier person.... less depressed and BORED!
I went on to get my single engine, my glider, my hot-air ballon ratings as well as my glider-tow and later instrutor and CPL.
MercenaryAli, what will your wife do when your kid is no longer home? do you think she'll still be happy? does she have enough of her OWN activities and hobbies? are you blind to her WANTS? From your answers I can't imagine that you really know her inner wishes.....
I could give some more examples, but this reply is long enough. I'll come back later
Westy
your answers are all excellent!
Why can't we just be able to do that which we are interesting in doing? without all this prejudice?
If a woman WANTS to fly, she should be able to!!
@MercenaryAli
your answers are all weak.....
the things his mom is not too interested in!
My son seems to like being with me and doing "men things",
As a teenager I was interested in science. Along with the frilly girl stuff I had astronomy posters on my walls. I studied astronomy for a year... but then met a man, a pilot, and we got married. I came to Germany where I tried to become the typical "Hausfrau" that they expected me to be.
It wasn't until I was 33 that I found out about being able to learn to fly.... my ex never told me I could and I thought you could only learn if you wanted to become a professional!
My initial reason to fly was for HIM! I wanted to learn the cockpit language so I could understand the radio when I flew with him. After my first flight that changed... I decided to learn FOR ME!
And my kids didn't suffer! In fact, I think their mother, me, was a happier person.... less depressed and BORED!
I went on to get my single engine, my glider, my hot-air ballon ratings as well as my glider-tow and later instrutor and CPL.
MercenaryAli, what will your wife do when your kid is no longer home? do you think she'll still be happy? does she have enough of her OWN activities and hobbies? are you blind to her WANTS? From your answers I can't imagine that you really know her inner wishes.....
I could give some more examples, but this reply is long enough. I'll come back later
Westy
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Females in the cabin/cockpit ?
8am on Boxing day ... and I'm tuned in and have filled in the last fifty minutes on the thread..... Yup a really sad Christmas male !
But seriously- can I offer something from the rotary perspective.
Not too many will disagree with my view that since actual 'hands on' control is required 100% of airborne time, pilot skills/decisions are continuously and more in evidence when handling the helicopter and as a commercial/fixed wing ex service jock and CAA examiner, I'd like to throw in my pennorth.
There are around 3000 UK/CAA rotary licence holders and significantly more than 3% female. Having trained and examined some 200 pilots since the 70's, my log book tells me 26 were the fairer sex. AND I have to report that I have regularly observed a higher standard of helicopter handling from the ladies. It may be something to do with a 'self selection' process. (Rotary is usually perceived as more difficult and indeed when I was in the RAF it was necesary to have an 'above average' fixed wing assessment to be selected for helicopter training.) ...... and the ladies that do go for it are probably good squash/tennis/sports players with the necessary co-ordination and the required 'above average' abilities.
But for whatever reason, I just repeat, that the majorityof female pilots I have flown with, demonstrated the smooth handling, nicely co-ordinated control that is so pleasant to see and feel from the trainer's/examiners seat.
Sorry to butt in to a fixed wing/flight deck argument/discussion since I'm now a confirmed 'Rotorhead' but felt some sexual balance to the thread was overdue.
I suppose 'offshore' and 'SAR' roles must really sort the men from ... dare I say it .. the boys, but can we have some comments from that area perhaps.
Happy Christmas to all and everyone ...
Rotorboy.
PS. My wife has put the whip away now ... Just joking.
8am on Boxing day ... and I'm tuned in and have filled in the last fifty minutes on the thread..... Yup a really sad Christmas male !
But seriously- can I offer something from the rotary perspective.
Not too many will disagree with my view that since actual 'hands on' control is required 100% of airborne time, pilot skills/decisions are continuously and more in evidence when handling the helicopter and as a commercial/fixed wing ex service jock and CAA examiner, I'd like to throw in my pennorth.
There are around 3000 UK/CAA rotary licence holders and significantly more than 3% female. Having trained and examined some 200 pilots since the 70's, my log book tells me 26 were the fairer sex. AND I have to report that I have regularly observed a higher standard of helicopter handling from the ladies. It may be something to do with a 'self selection' process. (Rotary is usually perceived as more difficult and indeed when I was in the RAF it was necesary to have an 'above average' fixed wing assessment to be selected for helicopter training.) ...... and the ladies that do go for it are probably good squash/tennis/sports players with the necessary co-ordination and the required 'above average' abilities.
But for whatever reason, I just repeat, that the majorityof female pilots I have flown with, demonstrated the smooth handling, nicely co-ordinated control that is so pleasant to see and feel from the trainer's/examiners seat.
Sorry to butt in to a fixed wing/flight deck argument/discussion since I'm now a confirmed 'Rotorhead' but felt some sexual balance to the thread was overdue.
I suppose 'offshore' and 'SAR' roles must really sort the men from ... dare I say it .. the boys, but can we have some comments from that area perhaps.
Happy Christmas to all and everyone ...
Rotorboy.
PS. My wife has put the whip away now ... Just joking.
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Good to see MAli has lumbered over here with his interesting points of view 
Dont bite hes just a wind up merchant, tried it on other threads and trying here now....yawn booooooring!
Dont bite hes just a wind up merchant, tried it on other threads and trying here now....yawn booooooring!
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Reckon I'm about to outstay my welcome. Didn't know there were so many nice sensible men out there. Must be hope after all.
Actually, Mercenary Ali is kinda cute. One may very well draft maternal care for offspring when one's own participation is limited to making them (doesn't hurt) and wait till sons are big enough for "manly" activities. Guess daughters have to stay home with mum while the boys go fishing/hunting. Pop provides all the fun things, mum is left to nag about mundane trivialities while cleaning up.
The reason for girls not being attracted to aviation? Starts in early age: Little girls are not invited to participate in technical matters, like learning the secrets of a car engine, going along on a trip to the airport, building models, etc etc. When they get older and visit these areas on their own, the males have already bonded and are reluctant to let them in. Which means that girls who have technical interests must find the knowledge despite lacking a platform. While sometimes being made fun of, and kept out of the "boys club" because they don't master the code. That's life "on the other side".
Cheer up, guys. It's not entirely your fault: Our differences are based on hormones, and we're not talking about changing nature, for heaven's sake. Just take care of the few girls who show an interest in aviation, then more will follow.
Actually, Mercenary Ali is kinda cute. One may very well draft maternal care for offspring when one's own participation is limited to making them (doesn't hurt) and wait till sons are big enough for "manly" activities. Guess daughters have to stay home with mum while the boys go fishing/hunting. Pop provides all the fun things, mum is left to nag about mundane trivialities while cleaning up.
The reason for girls not being attracted to aviation? Starts in early age: Little girls are not invited to participate in technical matters, like learning the secrets of a car engine, going along on a trip to the airport, building models, etc etc. When they get older and visit these areas on their own, the males have already bonded and are reluctant to let them in. Which means that girls who have technical interests must find the knowledge despite lacking a platform. While sometimes being made fun of, and kept out of the "boys club" because they don't master the code. That's life "on the other side".
Cheer up, guys. It's not entirely your fault: Our differences are based on hormones, and we're not talking about changing nature, for heaven's sake. Just take care of the few girls who show an interest in aviation, then more will follow.
Grandpa Aerotart
Nardi then my girl must be suffering exposure overload...when she was little just being around dad was the goal...when we went out on our boat it was always just the two of us...mum was out slutting...so off we'd go for a day on the coral reefs just offshore...when she was 4 she could drive our boat at 30kts, was comfortable (ok blissfully ignorant) in the water with reef sharks and delighted in watching starfish crawl off the side of her hand. Explaning that snorkelling was a slow quiet, passtime was met with swimming around with squeels of delight and excitment emanating from her snorkel.
She'd happily spend hours on the bottom of our swimming pool practicing with my scuba gear exploring every wrinkle in the pool liner like she was discovering some new marine life form previously undescribed by science. She finally got certified for open water scuba at 12 and she loved exploring underwater caves with the new dive torch I gave her.
I smiled quietly to myself when, while on a dive trip in Thailand together just after her dive course, she stood her ground with a german tourist who was into 'speed diving'. "Zo vy are zee group always vaiting for you und your fater to catch up ya"...."well what did you see? We saw xyz!"
When we went out for a fly in our C185 she would climb into the RHS and latch on to the controls. Taxiing it was "I can do it...don't help me"...Ok babe turn right...she didn't see my feet on the rudder pedals..."See I can do it..." She was 3 at the time....couldn't even see where she was going
These days when we are home in Aus for holidays and take our Bonanza somewhere, like interstate to visit family, she sits in row 2 with a discman and whines "Are we there yet?"...seemingly zero interest in sitting up front with me and having a fly....or enjoying the view....rather put the seat back down and snooze listening to crap
music.
At 15 (16 in feb) I have taught her to drive in our (manual) car and she's the designated driver when I have a few drinks. She finds driving our car more appealing than flying our aeroplane.
She's a very good driver...although she's picked up my habit of character assasinating other drivers who cut us off in traffic..."Did you see that MORON?...what a TOOL!!"
She's a teenager now....But I still get an arm round my shoulder and a spontaneous kiss on the cheek from time to time...in between the odd argument about just what % of life's answers (even an above average) teenager posseses...or what is suitable attire to wear outside in a Asian Muslim country.
She'd happily spend hours on the bottom of our swimming pool practicing with my scuba gear exploring every wrinkle in the pool liner like she was discovering some new marine life form previously undescribed by science. She finally got certified for open water scuba at 12 and she loved exploring underwater caves with the new dive torch I gave her.
I smiled quietly to myself when, while on a dive trip in Thailand together just after her dive course, she stood her ground with a german tourist who was into 'speed diving'. "Zo vy are zee group always vaiting for you und your fater to catch up ya"...."well what did you see? We saw xyz!"
When we went out for a fly in our C185 she would climb into the RHS and latch on to the controls. Taxiing it was "I can do it...don't help me"...Ok babe turn right...she didn't see my feet on the rudder pedals..."See I can do it..." She was 3 at the time....couldn't even see where she was going
These days when we are home in Aus for holidays and take our Bonanza somewhere, like interstate to visit family, she sits in row 2 with a discman and whines "Are we there yet?"...seemingly zero interest in sitting up front with me and having a fly....or enjoying the view....rather put the seat back down and snooze listening to crap
music.At 15 (16 in feb) I have taught her to drive in our (manual) car and she's the designated driver when I have a few drinks. She finds driving our car more appealing than flying our aeroplane.
She's a very good driver...although she's picked up my habit of character assasinating other drivers who cut us off in traffic..."Did you see that MORON?...what a TOOL!!"She's a teenager now....But I still get an arm round my shoulder and a spontaneous kiss on the cheek from time to time...in between the odd argument about just what % of life's answers (even an above average) teenager posseses...or what is suitable attire to wear outside in a Asian Muslim country.
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there's an article in the German "Spiegel" I found today.... unfortunately only in German, but it well describes the situation now.
It says there are now about 200 women pilots at Lufthansa and mentions one of them who has been flying now for 15 years and is presently a B-737 captain!
Westy
Spiegel
It says there are now about 200 women pilots at Lufthansa and mentions one of them who has been flying now for 15 years and is presently a B-737 captain!
Westy
Spiegel
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I don't understand the uproar. Women pilots have been around the airlines here for 30+ years, and most major airlines have significant percentages of them actively flying today, numbering in the thousands. Many are (and have been for years) Captains. No big deal at all, unless individuals (male or female) go out of their way to make a big deal of it.
Male pilots talk about enjoying (or not enjoying) flying with certain female pilots as much as they do certain male pilots. And vice/versa. There are always individuals who are not enjoyable to fly with, and some who are less or more competent than others. But these characteristics don't seem to be determined by gender in the bigger picture.
And as to the "added cost" of employing women as pilots? Actually, anecdotal evidence hints toward women, as a group, costing less when looking at medical/injury/health care costs over the long term of a career.
Male pilots talk about enjoying (or not enjoying) flying with certain female pilots as much as they do certain male pilots. And vice/versa. There are always individuals who are not enjoyable to fly with, and some who are less or more competent than others. But these characteristics don't seem to be determined by gender in the bigger picture.
And as to the "added cost" of employing women as pilots? Actually, anecdotal evidence hints toward women, as a group, costing less when looking at medical/injury/health care costs over the long term of a career.
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I just caught up on this thread, rather late I know. Way back, on about Page 4, someone asked about female helicopter pilots on the North Sea, and suggested there wouldn't be many. Well, when I visited a (female) pilot friend in Aberdeen, two years ago, the company she worked for had six female pilots and 150 men. That's 4%, very similar to many of the airlines.
Other than passing on that bit of info, I have nothing to say. Despite the fact that threads like this turn up on PPRuNe with monotonous regularity, I still find it unbelievable that there are people who think gender is of any relevance at all to flying.
But what do I know? I'm just a helicopter pilot....who thought my flying ability or lack of it depended on my hands, feet, eyes, coordination, brain, and training; not my hormones. Seems some people disagree.
Other than passing on that bit of info, I have nothing to say. Despite the fact that threads like this turn up on PPRuNe with monotonous regularity, I still find it unbelievable that there are people who think gender is of any relevance at all to flying.
But what do I know? I'm just a helicopter pilot....who thought my flying ability or lack of it depended on my hands, feet, eyes, coordination, brain, and training; not my hormones. Seems some people disagree.
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Thankfully there is a lot of enlightened discussion amongst an awful lot of chauvinistic drivel on this thread.
For those among us who hold reservations about female crew-members in the cockpit, consider another perspective:
How do you feel about the safety of your craft and pax being dependant on a female ATCO in very busy congested airspace, where said ATCO has to continually and quickly make multiple control decisions based on fast analysis of available data/info?
Kinda puts a bit of a different slant on things, doesn't it?
For those among us who hold reservations about female crew-members in the cockpit, consider another perspective:
How do you feel about the safety of your craft and pax being dependant on a female ATCO in very busy congested airspace, where said ATCO has to continually and quickly make multiple control decisions based on fast analysis of available data/info?
Kinda puts a bit of a different slant on things, doesn't it?
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Whirlybird: As a sensible professional, you probably got tired of this "childish crap", but perhaps airing it ever so often MAY serve some purpose. I happily jumped onto the bandwagon, then searched the site when you mentioned similar threads. Many thanks to all the gals who came out from the safe haven of the woodwork to post here.
Most threads/posts addressing the issue were not all too serious or even misplaced (Jet Blast or Agony Aunt by wannabe gals too timid to post in "real" sections – typical female trait?), but did find a few rewarding "gems", hereby link to a couple that about sums it all up and proves what gals in aviation have to deal with:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...rporate+pilots
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=female+pilots
Some threads are brought to an abrupt end whenever some bloated male ego finds it suitable to drop a doggiedoo in order to have everyone turn away holding their noses, and thus closing the case. Call it whatever you wish.
Friendly banter from any guy is just fun and no problem, whereas covert "sabotage" by prejudiced conservatives who hate their territory being "invaded" by females is a totally different ballgame. "Harassment" will have different interpretations depending on gender – women are eternally tired of said angle, which they encounter everywhere. Alas, some men never EVER get tired of the male/female subject. If women try to reciprocate, it will be interpreted as sexual come-on, thus back to "base one".
Naturally it may seem unfair that the small percentage of females in aviation should be treated equal to the larger percentage males, but after all you guys have enjoyed the territory alone for ages while women were involuntary confined to the kitchen, so why not give the girls now some leeway now to make up for it?
When a man goofs professionally, fellow men will look the other way (unless they're after his position, in which case they'll kill him). When a woman makes a mistake, it's all over the grapevine (whoever claimed that men never gossip?) due to the fact that women in aviation are few and therefore more noticeable.
Most forums have posts where boys/men call out for more female participation in aviation. They need to understand that the trick is to invite/accommodate girls from early age on! When females reach the age of 20+, the eternal pressure of social conformity has influenced their role models way too long. Luckily, this changes as time goes by. In my younger days, the uncompromising option was the kitchen no matter what. Today I'd give an arm/leg to be just a few years younger and get in.
I have noted that posters from "down under" seem to have a more relaxed attitude to female pilots. Happy to hear more from you guys to alleviate the pain!
All in all, after reading all these threads, my impression is that most sane unbiased male pilots (blessed species) thoroughly enjoy the company of female co-workers (as long as the gals are able to do the job properly), and are more than happy to provide sound advice and follow-up. These guys actually are very proud when gals excel and reach their goal, contrary to what we hear from some few "dinosaurs" (young or old).
SOME GIRLS ACTUALLY DO LOVE FLYING AS MUCH AS ANY GUY!!!
EastCoaster – your input may be a bit off-thread. We'll check in at ATC-Forum.
Most threads/posts addressing the issue were not all too serious or even misplaced (Jet Blast or Agony Aunt by wannabe gals too timid to post in "real" sections – typical female trait?), but did find a few rewarding "gems", hereby link to a couple that about sums it all up and proves what gals in aviation have to deal with:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...rporate+pilots
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=female+pilots
Some threads are brought to an abrupt end whenever some bloated male ego finds it suitable to drop a doggiedoo in order to have everyone turn away holding their noses, and thus closing the case. Call it whatever you wish.
Friendly banter from any guy is just fun and no problem, whereas covert "sabotage" by prejudiced conservatives who hate their territory being "invaded" by females is a totally different ballgame. "Harassment" will have different interpretations depending on gender – women are eternally tired of said angle, which they encounter everywhere. Alas, some men never EVER get tired of the male/female subject. If women try to reciprocate, it will be interpreted as sexual come-on, thus back to "base one".
Naturally it may seem unfair that the small percentage of females in aviation should be treated equal to the larger percentage males, but after all you guys have enjoyed the territory alone for ages while women were involuntary confined to the kitchen, so why not give the girls now some leeway now to make up for it?
When a man goofs professionally, fellow men will look the other way (unless they're after his position, in which case they'll kill him). When a woman makes a mistake, it's all over the grapevine (whoever claimed that men never gossip?) due to the fact that women in aviation are few and therefore more noticeable.
Most forums have posts where boys/men call out for more female participation in aviation. They need to understand that the trick is to invite/accommodate girls from early age on! When females reach the age of 20+, the eternal pressure of social conformity has influenced their role models way too long. Luckily, this changes as time goes by. In my younger days, the uncompromising option was the kitchen no matter what. Today I'd give an arm/leg to be just a few years younger and get in.
I have noted that posters from "down under" seem to have a more relaxed attitude to female pilots. Happy to hear more from you guys to alleviate the pain!
All in all, after reading all these threads, my impression is that most sane unbiased male pilots (blessed species) thoroughly enjoy the company of female co-workers (as long as the gals are able to do the job properly), and are more than happy to provide sound advice and follow-up. These guys actually are very proud when gals excel and reach their goal, contrary to what we hear from some few "dinosaurs" (young or old).
SOME GIRLS ACTUALLY DO LOVE FLYING AS MUCH AS ANY GUY!!!
EastCoaster – your input may be a bit off-thread. We'll check in at ATC-Forum.
Last edited by Nardi Riviera; 29th Dec 2004 at 20:39.
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Nardi Riviera,
Actually, I always post on these threads, when I happen to see them. The reason? I mentioned to another female pilot/ppruner some years ago that I wasn't going to waste my time with this kind of crap. She said that if we didn't tell it like it is, things would never change. I decided she was right. I think she's posted on this thread, though she's changed her user name so I'm not certain.
Anyway, as you say, friendly banter is totally different from real prejudice....and yes, we CAN tell the difference.
Concerning the relatively few women in aviation, I asked my 17 year old neighbour about this. She soloed on a motor glider with the ATC in minimal hours, is training to instruct for them, and wants to join the RAF. I asked her if young girls in general felt any differently to us older folks. "Oh no", she said, "It's just not a girlie thing to do, is it?"
Seems like some things never change...or change exceedingly slowly.
Whirlybird: As a sensible professional, you probably got tired of this "childish crap", but perhaps airing it ever so often MAY serve some purpose.
Anyway, as you say, friendly banter is totally different from real prejudice....and yes, we CAN tell the difference.
Concerning the relatively few women in aviation, I asked my 17 year old neighbour about this. She soloed on a motor glider with the ATC in minimal hours, is training to instruct for them, and wants to join the RAF. I asked her if young girls in general felt any differently to us older folks. "Oh no", she said, "It's just not a girlie thing to do, is it?"
Seems like some things never change...or change exceedingly slowly.
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Have learned that it's not so much about what we say, but what we do: Girls must be present and actively participate, in automotive environments as well as aviation. Eventually (in another hundred years?) boys grow used to dealing with them. Seen this work during my 30 years in aviation. So there IS hope. Stay tuned.
But the threshold for girls is still quite high, as expressed by your young neighbour. Thus in the 21st century we still negotiate "girlie things" as opposed to "man things". Visit a toystore and have a nightmare!!! The male mystery to me is why most guys (i.e. the macho % of the species) can't accept and include a gal hovering around the airport and clearly showing interest. (Of course, if she's young and pretty, they'd like her to giggle and applaude their manly activities. If she's old or ugly, they'll ignore her even if she knows more about flying than some of them.) Life on the far side.
Considering EC's contribution, females have proved they make good controllers. Women are able to use both halves of the brain simultaneously (how else is wifey able to get the job done around whining kids and spouse demanding sustenance and clean socks?). Science claims that female brains are interconnected, while men use only one half at a time (able to read the paper while kids scream for assistance). What a blessing it must be. Wonder where they dig up the required "simultaneous capacity" for airline tests? Proving they can if they want to, but their priorities are obviously limited.
lod – thanks for numbers on Ryanair. Still curious regarding post from "Ms. Turret" from oz (page 6 bottom) about this alleged pilot daughter of a former chief pilot who "stormed off an aircraft down route some day" due to "sexual harassment". What woman could get her licenses sporting such attitude? "Cry-babes" would have given up long before they made it to the pointy end of an airliner. Did ask for hard facts abut the alleged "incident", if it ever happened, but the silence has been deafening. Maybe Ryanair pilots are too busy flying the line to waste spare time online? Wouldn't know.
Y'all have a happy New Year!!! Fly low and slow so ya don't hurt yourselves…
But the threshold for girls is still quite high, as expressed by your young neighbour. Thus in the 21st century we still negotiate "girlie things" as opposed to "man things". Visit a toystore and have a nightmare!!! The male mystery to me is why most guys (i.e. the macho % of the species) can't accept and include a gal hovering around the airport and clearly showing interest. (Of course, if she's young and pretty, they'd like her to giggle and applaude their manly activities. If she's old or ugly, they'll ignore her even if she knows more about flying than some of them.) Life on the far side.
Considering EC's contribution, females have proved they make good controllers. Women are able to use both halves of the brain simultaneously (how else is wifey able to get the job done around whining kids and spouse demanding sustenance and clean socks?). Science claims that female brains are interconnected, while men use only one half at a time (able to read the paper while kids scream for assistance). What a blessing it must be. Wonder where they dig up the required "simultaneous capacity" for airline tests? Proving they can if they want to, but their priorities are obviously limited.
lod – thanks for numbers on Ryanair. Still curious regarding post from "Ms. Turret" from oz (page 6 bottom) about this alleged pilot daughter of a former chief pilot who "stormed off an aircraft down route some day" due to "sexual harassment". What woman could get her licenses sporting such attitude? "Cry-babes" would have given up long before they made it to the pointy end of an airliner. Did ask for hard facts abut the alleged "incident", if it ever happened, but the silence has been deafening. Maybe Ryanair pilots are too busy flying the line to waste spare time online? Wouldn't know.
Y'all have a happy New Year!!! Fly low and slow so ya don't hurt yourselves…
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Europe
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Females fly
In Europe and USA I hear female voices but in Asia it is rare. Out of 1.900 pilots are 5 females, one is pregnant... so 4 are currently flying and the one is due to giving birth in March. By the way she is A330 and her husband B737...... does size count???
NG
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