Female pilots at Ryanair???
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Women tend to be more motivated, dedicated and professional in my opinion. As for not being as able mathematically and technically - well I think that is not true.
If there is an increasing number of females being employed, and I think in many UK airlines this is the case then I think this is due to the above factors rather than any positive discrimination.
As for flying with them, in my company those I have flown with are generally a joy to share a day with - competent, relaxed, confident and personable. Long may it continue.
If there is an increasing number of females being employed, and I think in many UK airlines this is the case then I think this is due to the above factors rather than any positive discrimination.
As for flying with them, in my company those I have flown with are generally a joy to share a day with - competent, relaxed, confident and personable. Long may it continue.
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I was having a chat with my aunt about this - she's now in her 70's, and was a surgeon and GP - going to med school in about 1946.
She encountered a lot of raised eyebrows - came from a working class family as well, and lots of people thought then that female doctors would never have the trust of patients, even female ones! They told her she'd never be able to raise a family (wrong, 2 daughters), or have time to keep home and husband, wrong. A lot of male doctors were certain that the hours, stress etc. were beyond women...
Wake up lads - the cockpit is no longer a male preserve - and by the way - 65% of med students in the UK are..........women!
She encountered a lot of raised eyebrows - came from a working class family as well, and lots of people thought then that female doctors would never have the trust of patients, even female ones! They told her she'd never be able to raise a family (wrong, 2 daughters), or have time to keep home and husband, wrong. A lot of male doctors were certain that the hours, stress etc. were beyond women...
Wake up lads - the cockpit is no longer a male preserve - and by the way - 65% of med students in the UK are..........women!
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Now please don't shoot the messenger, but does this sound familiar ?
Women docs 'weakening' medicine.
A top female doctor has warned the medical profession's influence could be damaged by the number of women choosing to be medics.
Women doctors are expected to outnumber men within a decade.
But Professor Carol Black, president of the Royal College of Physicians, told the Independent that could affect how the medical profession was seen.
She said she believed female-dominated professions such as teaching no longer saw themselves as "powerful".
She added: "We are feminising medicine. It has been a profession dominated by white males. What are we going to have to do to ensure it retains its influence?
"Years ago, teaching was a male-dominated profession - and look what happened to teaching. I don't think they feel they are a powerful profession any more. Look at nursing, too."
Professor Black added: "In Russia, medicine is an almost entirely female profession.
"They are paid less and they are almost ignored by government. They have lost influence as a body that had competency, skills and a professional ethic.
"They have become just another part of the workforce. It is a case of downgrading professionalism."
Work-life balance
Professor Black added: "What worries me is who is going to be the professor of cardiology in the future? Where are we going to find the leaders of British medicine in 20 years' time?"
She added women were unlikely to take top jobs, such as the dean of a medical school, because of the difficulties combining them with family life.
Professor Black warned many women avoided more "demanding" areas such as cardiology.
She said medicine had to face up to the problem and find ways of helping women doctors balance work and family.
Professor Black told BBC News Online: "I think it's a good thing that women are choosing the medical profession, but the problem is how to make it possible for them to be really effective.
"At the moment, women aren't going into specialties that are the more demanding. So we need to look at how those specialties are practised."
Flexible working
Professor Black warned that, in order for the medical profession's to retain its status, senior doctors needed to serve on government committees and regulatory bodies.
She said such as late night meetings would simply not be possible for women with children, unless they were given extra support with childcare and flexible hours.
"I think most women, although not all, want the opportunity to have a family.
"That may mean they won't perhaps be able to be as flexible as men who don't in a post."
She said she was pleased she was able to highlight the problem because of her position. "It's something that's very difficult for a man to say."
Dr Maureen Baker, honorary secretary of the Royal College of GPs, said it was "perfectly reasonable" to expect the status of any profession to be upheld by its workforce.
"Furthermore, if a higher ratio of men or women working within a profession is deemed to be reducing its status then there is a problem with the very way society views the abilities of the sexes," she said.
'Smaller pool'
A spokeswoman for the British Medical Association said: "We would not want to see a return to the old quota system of admitting women to medical school - the BMA believes in equality of access and opportunity.
"However we agree with Professor Black that there is an under-representation of women at the most senior levels of medicine and medico-politics and we would like to see this changed."
And John Bangs of the National Union of Teachers said: "I would by no means agree that teaching views itself as a less powerful profession, and I find that a very concerning view."
He added: "If you have an all female profession, whether it be medicine or teaching, it means that the pool from which you're selecting those people is smaller than it should be."
A top female doctor has warned the medical profession's influence could be damaged by the number of women choosing to be medics.
Women doctors are expected to outnumber men within a decade.
But Professor Carol Black, president of the Royal College of Physicians, told the Independent that could affect how the medical profession was seen.
She said she believed female-dominated professions such as teaching no longer saw themselves as "powerful".
She added: "We are feminising medicine. It has been a profession dominated by white males. What are we going to have to do to ensure it retains its influence?
"Years ago, teaching was a male-dominated profession - and look what happened to teaching. I don't think they feel they are a powerful profession any more. Look at nursing, too."
Professor Black added: "In Russia, medicine is an almost entirely female profession.
"They are paid less and they are almost ignored by government. They have lost influence as a body that had competency, skills and a professional ethic.
"They have become just another part of the workforce. It is a case of downgrading professionalism."
Work-life balance
Professor Black added: "What worries me is who is going to be the professor of cardiology in the future? Where are we going to find the leaders of British medicine in 20 years' time?"
She added women were unlikely to take top jobs, such as the dean of a medical school, because of the difficulties combining them with family life.
Professor Black warned many women avoided more "demanding" areas such as cardiology.
She said medicine had to face up to the problem and find ways of helping women doctors balance work and family.
Professor Black told BBC News Online: "I think it's a good thing that women are choosing the medical profession, but the problem is how to make it possible for them to be really effective.
"At the moment, women aren't going into specialties that are the more demanding. So we need to look at how those specialties are practised."
Flexible working
Professor Black warned that, in order for the medical profession's to retain its status, senior doctors needed to serve on government committees and regulatory bodies.
She said such as late night meetings would simply not be possible for women with children, unless they were given extra support with childcare and flexible hours.
"I think most women, although not all, want the opportunity to have a family.
"That may mean they won't perhaps be able to be as flexible as men who don't in a post."
She said she was pleased she was able to highlight the problem because of her position. "It's something that's very difficult for a man to say."
Dr Maureen Baker, honorary secretary of the Royal College of GPs, said it was "perfectly reasonable" to expect the status of any profession to be upheld by its workforce.
"Furthermore, if a higher ratio of men or women working within a profession is deemed to be reducing its status then there is a problem with the very way society views the abilities of the sexes," she said.
'Smaller pool'
A spokeswoman for the British Medical Association said: "We would not want to see a return to the old quota system of admitting women to medical school - the BMA believes in equality of access and opportunity.
"However we agree with Professor Black that there is an under-representation of women at the most senior levels of medicine and medico-politics and we would like to see this changed."
And John Bangs of the National Union of Teachers said: "I would by no means agree that teaching views itself as a less powerful profession, and I find that a very concerning view."
He added: "If you have an all female profession, whether it be medicine or teaching, it means that the pool from which you're selecting those people is smaller than it should be."
What is this with the banal utterings of those inadequately-testiculated old dinosaurs who have yet to comprehend that female pilots are every bit as good as male pilots?
Years ago, during a Spanish ATC strike, I only got home on time because the Dan Air captain kicked butt, put on extra fuel and flew her 707 all the way home at FL170 from Mahon to Gatwick! She had a 'can-b£oody-do' attitude, all right!
I trained a fair few pilots in the military; one of our best was a young lady who came from a generation of pilots - on her first sim trip I spotted a degree of application, skill and determination which wasn't exhibited by her male colleagues. "She'll be the first female captain on this fleet" thought I after watching her fly the sim for 5 minutes. And so she became! I had the very great pleasure of acting as her co-piglet when she retired the last ever Standard VC10 to its graveyard many years later. Fittingly, her grandfather had brought the a/c into BOAC service quite a few years earlier!
Stop bitching about female pilots - in general they're very good indeed. As should only be expected!
Years ago, during a Spanish ATC strike, I only got home on time because the Dan Air captain kicked butt, put on extra fuel and flew her 707 all the way home at FL170 from Mahon to Gatwick! She had a 'can-b£oody-do' attitude, all right!
I trained a fair few pilots in the military; one of our best was a young lady who came from a generation of pilots - on her first sim trip I spotted a degree of application, skill and determination which wasn't exhibited by her male colleagues. "She'll be the first female captain on this fleet" thought I after watching her fly the sim for 5 minutes. And so she became! I had the very great pleasure of acting as her co-piglet when she retired the last ever Standard VC10 to its graveyard many years later. Fittingly, her grandfather had brought the a/c into BOAC service quite a few years earlier!
Stop bitching about female pilots - in general they're very good indeed. As should only be expected!
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Thank you Beags. I second that. When I see the effort certain lady pilots put into their job I am ashamed of the casual way in which I used to shamble around the world. I can only hope I would have grown out of it.
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Female pilots - anywhere?
Awww - c'mon for heavens sake, all ya old and young dinosaurs!!!
Females have long ago proven that they can handle big irons or any powered flying vehicles! Already in the 20'ies they were hailed for their brave aviation enterprises.
During WWII gals competently ferried fighters and bombers to sites where "real men" were allowed to take over and fly the crates into oblivion and death. After the war the "aviatrixes" were confined to the kitchen. Yecchhh.
Problem is that today's big-ego (?) macho-men (?) still have trouble letting gals into "their" territory! It is still "a man's world", even anno 2000+. Wake up!!!
Because (!) airline bean-counters have found that any female unfortunately is endowed with nature's given ability to produce offspring (whether they want to or not). Meaning that they could be out of line production while doing their "duty". Alas, some airlines then find it too costly to replace them during this period, as well as abstaining from the cost of putting them through recurrent training later. Money talks?
Do believe women pilots are quite as competent as their male "hot-shot" counterparts. With no testosterone they don't waste time and energy fistfighting in bars or wrecking cars/planes to prove they're better than "the next guy/gal". In a dogfight they win because of their ability to calmly assess the situation.
The following link goes to prove that even the USAF have found females usable:
http://www.rb-29.net/HTML/03RelatedS...C135ladies.htm
Isn't this nice reading? Even 30 years ago there was an all-female crew on an American B-727 where the captain and the flight-engineer were mother and daughter. (I saved the clip.) Just the other day I watched a TV programme with an old captain flying the line with his daughter co-pilot whom he had taught to fly.
Danny dear, you're such a nice and sensible man!!! Thanks for your input above.
GET REAL, GUYS!!!!!
Females have long ago proven that they can handle big irons or any powered flying vehicles! Already in the 20'ies they were hailed for their brave aviation enterprises.
During WWII gals competently ferried fighters and bombers to sites where "real men" were allowed to take over and fly the crates into oblivion and death. After the war the "aviatrixes" were confined to the kitchen. Yecchhh.
Problem is that today's big-ego (?) macho-men (?) still have trouble letting gals into "their" territory! It is still "a man's world", even anno 2000+. Wake up!!!
Because (!) airline bean-counters have found that any female unfortunately is endowed with nature's given ability to produce offspring (whether they want to or not). Meaning that they could be out of line production while doing their "duty". Alas, some airlines then find it too costly to replace them during this period, as well as abstaining from the cost of putting them through recurrent training later. Money talks?
Do believe women pilots are quite as competent as their male "hot-shot" counterparts. With no testosterone they don't waste time and energy fistfighting in bars or wrecking cars/planes to prove they're better than "the next guy/gal". In a dogfight they win because of their ability to calmly assess the situation.
The following link goes to prove that even the USAF have found females usable:
http://www.rb-29.net/HTML/03RelatedS...C135ladies.htm
Isn't this nice reading? Even 30 years ago there was an all-female crew on an American B-727 where the captain and the flight-engineer were mother and daughter. (I saved the clip.) Just the other day I watched a TV programme with an old captain flying the line with his daughter co-pilot whom he had taught to fly.
Danny dear, you're such a nice and sensible man!!! Thanks for your input above.
GET REAL, GUYS!!!!!
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Nardi Riviera, you should probably double check that clip.
I started with AA in 1985 and remember the first all female 727
crew some time after that (my guess would be 1987),
and there was no mother - daughter combo.
I started with AA in 1985 and remember the first all female 727
crew some time after that (my guess would be 1987),
and there was no mother - daughter combo.
Aviator Extraordinaire
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OK, I got into this thread late, all I can tell you is that I am a chief –pilot of a corporate operation and the first pilot I hired was a, GASP, female!
Didn’t hire her because she was a ‘female’, I hired her because she was a damn good pilot.
End of subject!
Didn’t hire her because she was a ‘female’, I hired her because she was a damn good pilot.
End of subject!
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I just had to come in on this one.
Over the years I have had the pleasure of teaching an almost equal gender split of students at PPL level, and now fly the line with a small but excellent group of female first officers.
They have worked hard to get the positions they now hold, and made some tremendous personal sacrifices.
On hours and ability alone, most of them should now be in the left seat .. however the glass ceiling is still there and being reinforced by some of the attitudes voiced earlier in this thread.
Well said Danny : It's about time attitudes changed... at all levels
Over the years I have had the pleasure of teaching an almost equal gender split of students at PPL level, and now fly the line with a small but excellent group of female first officers.
They have worked hard to get the positions they now hold, and made some tremendous personal sacrifices.
On hours and ability alone, most of them should now be in the left seat .. however the glass ceiling is still there and being reinforced by some of the attitudes voiced earlier in this thread.
Well said Danny : It's about time attitudes changed... at all levels
You want ladies in macho jobs? The Tall Ships Youth Trust (previously known as the Sail Training Association) has two brigs of over 600 tonnes displacement; 200ft two masted square riggers - 10 square sails and 8 fore & aft.
Their bosuns are female.
For the landlubbers; the bosun runs deck maintenance, rigging stores, does a bit of instructing and leads the sea shanty singing by the voyage crew manning the yards, reporting to the 1st mate.
Their bosuns are female.
For the landlubbers; the bosun runs deck maintenance, rigging stores, does a bit of instructing and leads the sea shanty singing by the voyage crew manning the yards, reporting to the 1st mate.
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Sexism is part of human nature.Like a lot of other isms,its here to stay unfortunately.Remember that its the flying public that often reinforce the myth that flying is a mans world.And thats both men and women.I have actually witnessed female passengers deplane because the skipper was female...
Anyone who thinks women cant make it as pilots,just tell them two words...Amelia Earhart.
Anyone who thinks women cant make it as pilots,just tell them two words...Amelia Earhart.
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Just to clear up any misunderstanding...my comments about Ryanair not hiring females for financial reasons were not meant to be taken to suggest I don't think female pilots are any good.
Not at all.
But the fact remains...they have potentially higher specific costs of employment due to their tendancy to reproduce at will.
As to female/male pilot ability. I've seen both sides of this.
I've flown with female pilots who were outstanding. I've also flown with female pilots who were useless...ditto for males.
However, I have on more than one occasion (alright, twice) personally witnessed the abuse of feminine wiles to get ahead.
In the first case a female new-joiner was told she would be streamed onto a turbo-prop fleet instead of the jet type she hoped for (not as a result of any ability issues...just luck of the draw). She went to the Chief Pilot and bawled her eyes out to him. He wimped out and took a young guy off the jet slot and gave it to her. Later, when the young man objected - he was fired for questioning the Chief Pilots motives!
In the other case I actually saw a female pilot burst into tears during a difficult sim check that wasn't going well for her.
The session was stopped so she could compose herself, and when it restarted - everything was laid on a plate to get her through. A male pilot in the same situation would either have had to sort himself out or fail the check.
I believe this kind of thing does go on, like it or not.
Not at all.
But the fact remains...they have potentially higher specific costs of employment due to their tendancy to reproduce at will.
As to female/male pilot ability. I've seen both sides of this.
I've flown with female pilots who were outstanding. I've also flown with female pilots who were useless...ditto for males.
However, I have on more than one occasion (alright, twice) personally witnessed the abuse of feminine wiles to get ahead.
In the first case a female new-joiner was told she would be streamed onto a turbo-prop fleet instead of the jet type she hoped for (not as a result of any ability issues...just luck of the draw). She went to the Chief Pilot and bawled her eyes out to him. He wimped out and took a young guy off the jet slot and gave it to her. Later, when the young man objected - he was fired for questioning the Chief Pilots motives!
In the other case I actually saw a female pilot burst into tears during a difficult sim check that wasn't going well for her.
The session was stopped so she could compose herself, and when it restarted - everything was laid on a plate to get her through. A male pilot in the same situation would either have had to sort himself out or fail the check.
I believe this kind of thing does go on, like it or not.
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A great reply to Maxalt's post above is just waiting to be given but those of you whom are not scholars of Hiberno English might not get it so it is best we leave it go for now. Shame, really. Very funny, though! 
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I saw this post and it made me wonder something else.
Whilst I appreciate that male pilot/female pilot makes no difference in the general scheme of things it made me wonder about the recruitment process. There is a drive now to get more women into the airline industry- great I say, it's fact that they generally don't suffer the same bravado issues as blokes and studies have shown they are less likely to "take the gamble" probably a good thing on the flight deck but where does this leave the recruitment process of 2 equal candidates one a female and one a male ?
What springs to mind here (though miles apart) is in "affirmative action" in Africa, where the jobs are going to blacks before whites,(no problem with that - but I'm told even if the white's a far better candidate). Do you think there is a chance this could happen in said recruitment question as the airlines drive for more female pilots - in that it'd look better for them to be recruiting more females - or does it just not happen !!
All hypothetical and I'm not sexist or racist just thinking out loud.
FS
p.s. th earlier posts about crying re jet/prop and sim checks is disgusting - I hope the pilot that got sacked took them to the cleaners.
Whilst I appreciate that male pilot/female pilot makes no difference in the general scheme of things it made me wonder about the recruitment process. There is a drive now to get more women into the airline industry- great I say, it's fact that they generally don't suffer the same bravado issues as blokes and studies have shown they are less likely to "take the gamble" probably a good thing on the flight deck but where does this leave the recruitment process of 2 equal candidates one a female and one a male ?
What springs to mind here (though miles apart) is in "affirmative action" in Africa, where the jobs are going to blacks before whites,(no problem with that - but I'm told even if the white's a far better candidate). Do you think there is a chance this could happen in said recruitment question as the airlines drive for more female pilots - in that it'd look better for them to be recruiting more females - or does it just not happen !!
All hypothetical and I'm not sexist or racist just thinking out loud.
FS
p.s. th earlier posts about crying re jet/prop and sim checks is disgusting - I hope the pilot that got sacked took them to the cleaners.
Last edited by flystudent; 15th Dec 2004 at 15:12.
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maxalt, I cannot believe that those events happened. The vast majority of female pilots would not dream of using something like that. BUT...and its a big but... you are actually putting down men in your post, as you are inferring that they would actually go outside of CAA guidelines to get a female through a sim check, and go outside of employment guidelines to promote a woman ahead of a man.
If this is the case, then perhaps the tactics of men who are in a position of "power" should be examined more thoroughly.
As for the maternity issue, well, in the USA a female pilot took her employer to court, because she wanted to work during pregnancy (after the first 3 months) and wasn't allowed to. I believe that women pilots in America are now allowed to fly whilst pregnant provided they have consent from their Doctor.
However, let's take worse case scenario. I believe the average number of children per women is now less than 2. So lets say, worse case, the pilot has 2 children.
I would guess that it takes at least a month to confirm that a woman is actually pregnant. During that month the woman flies.
The woman is then grounded for 2 months due to the high radiation affecting the development of the child. After that she is medically fit and could fly an aircraft if the regulations allow.
Obviously closer to the actual birth she will be off for a couple of months. Lets say worst case, she is off for 1 year per child. That is only 2 years in a career of 30 or 40 years. No doubt the low cost carriers could only pay statutory maternity leave if they so desired. Now I know for a fact that an airline can cope with at least 20 less pilots - the airline I work for is not a low cost carrier but operates with less crews per aircraft than LCCs. In my airline pregnant pilots are assigned other duties, on the ground, so they are doing a job that the company would have to pay for.
So its most likely to be around 8 months off, doing a different job, with maybe a pay difference of £20k per year. So we are talking maybe £13k for one child, £26k for two.
My company spent £60k on days off payments this year, because it couldn't roster sufficient pilots to cover for sickness, delays, etc.
Not to mention the fact that we have a number of (male) pilots off sick with other health issues.
So is this really such a big issue????
And if men don't agree with women working as pilots then taking maternity leave, I take it they are happy with their own wives never having children, or if they do, giving up their jobs?
If this is the case, then perhaps the tactics of men who are in a position of "power" should be examined more thoroughly.
As for the maternity issue, well, in the USA a female pilot took her employer to court, because she wanted to work during pregnancy (after the first 3 months) and wasn't allowed to. I believe that women pilots in America are now allowed to fly whilst pregnant provided they have consent from their Doctor.
However, let's take worse case scenario. I believe the average number of children per women is now less than 2. So lets say, worse case, the pilot has 2 children.
I would guess that it takes at least a month to confirm that a woman is actually pregnant. During that month the woman flies.
The woman is then grounded for 2 months due to the high radiation affecting the development of the child. After that she is medically fit and could fly an aircraft if the regulations allow.
Obviously closer to the actual birth she will be off for a couple of months. Lets say worst case, she is off for 1 year per child. That is only 2 years in a career of 30 or 40 years. No doubt the low cost carriers could only pay statutory maternity leave if they so desired. Now I know for a fact that an airline can cope with at least 20 less pilots - the airline I work for is not a low cost carrier but operates with less crews per aircraft than LCCs. In my airline pregnant pilots are assigned other duties, on the ground, so they are doing a job that the company would have to pay for.
So its most likely to be around 8 months off, doing a different job, with maybe a pay difference of £20k per year. So we are talking maybe £13k for one child, £26k for two.
My company spent £60k on days off payments this year, because it couldn't roster sufficient pilots to cover for sickness, delays, etc.
Not to mention the fact that we have a number of (male) pilots off sick with other health issues.
So is this really such a big issue????
And if men don't agree with women working as pilots then taking maternity leave, I take it they are happy with their own wives never having children, or if they do, giving up their jobs?
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maxalt, I cannot believe that those events happened. The vast majority of female pilots would not dream of using something like that.
True nonetheless. I really don't have this good an imagination.
Just to rub salt into it, the female concerned took her jet type rating and buggered orf after serving about a year. She's using it to fly with another employer in the UK now.
Apparently that was why she was so upset at being streamed onto the turbo prop...she was already plotting her escape and needed the jet rating to do it.
The individuals concerned may well be reading this and no doubt recognise themselves. Perhaps she'd like to comment?
BUT...and its a big but... you are actually putting down men in your post, as you are inferring that they would actually go outside of CAA guidelines to get a female through a sim check, and go outside of employment guidelines to promote a woman ahead of a man.
Some men are so easily manipulated by a womans tears it just ain't funny.
Me? - I'd fail anyone on the spot for crying in the Sim.
They'd be off to the shrink immediately too.
But thats just me...I'm fair and even handed by nature.
If this is the case, then perhaps the tactics of men who are in a position of "power" should be examined more thoroughly.
As to the details of pregnancy legislation, you appear to know little about it.
Under the old rules it was allowed for a pregnant pilot to fly during the second trimester.
When JAR came in that was stopped altogether.
So no point sueing your long-sufferring employer...its the LAW.
Also, I've yet to meet a female pilot who actually WANTED to fly while pregnant!
Usually the pregnancy was timed to fall in Peak Season...so she had a nice rest while the rest of us worked our bollix off (how do you like THAT hiberno english Tom The Tenor)? And after all...if I was capable of choosing when to have a 9 month holiday on a whim...I'd pick my dates carefully too.
Lets not delude ourselves...its human nature.
As a matter of additional interest, its my experience that when a lady pilot decides to have a baby, she often decides...what the hell...lets have two and get it over with.
The result is she's off the roster for a year and a half.
Unless she can arrange a set of twins?
And off course...the company has to pay her...and she is under no obligation to work in another position...I've never known them to do so, and if they were forced...well, I imagine the sudden onset of a bout of premature labour symptoms would scare off most Chief Pilots.
Jeez...I'm so un-PC!
How dare I...I could get my eyes scratched out if I was identified!
And if men don't agree with women working as pilots then taking maternity leave, I take it they are happy with their own wives never having children, or if they do, giving up their jobs?
Seems basically unjust to me. Never actually been in that situation, but I've seen it numerous times.
Not sure what I'd do about it...perhaps we could open a new thread and kick it around there?
Last edited by maxalt; 15th Dec 2004 at 20:43.
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Thank ya all for some veeery interesting reading!!!
Airbus Girl – nice to have some facts in this thread, for a change...
Have noted that during the last decade the gender gap in aviation has closed somewhat, which is really encouraging. Especially the younger generation men are getting more comfortable about sharing their work environment with women.
Guess that as the number of female pilots is increasing, there will be all kinds present: Also the very few who habitually resort to tears for "problem-solving". Why, in another 20 yrs one doing that would be told brusquely to pull herself together and continue, or better yet may have learned this by ample exposure to the male environment. Guys responding to tears in the old-fashioned way also show that they have a few miles to go... Evolution takes time, dear gentlemen. Stay tuned.
In the earlier ages (60-70'ies) maybe the conduct of female pilots had to be strictly professional in order to get them somewhere – or maybe other types of women were attracted to flying than today's (actual interest in aviation, not just "another job"). Believe that most of us more easily notice/remember a gal goofing on a sim-check etc than when a guy does, because they are few so they draw attention.
I remember the days when men had all kinds of hilarious reasons for women not being suitable for flying positions. (One old airline captain assured me that the only skirt he'd ever see in his cockpit would be the stew serving them coffee…) Then, after gals had been around for a while and I reminded the guys of their previous statements, those very ones had gotten used to the phenomenon and could no longer see "the problem". Nice.
Men are somewhat primitive beings. I do enjoy/envy that – as expressed in old PC lingo: WYSIWYG. Wish more women were able to adopt some of that attitude, thus simplify their acts a wee bit for the benefit of all. MOST women could use some more ambition plus sharper elbows, and tone down their nurturing instinct. (Of course, in here I'm only addressing the typical extremes of either gender, who are most visible.) Believe any unbiased pilots will accept female colleagues (or coloured) if they can perform the task at hand.
Bamse01 – Check the grammar, it shows that I was referring to an airline in America, not AA. Think it was on the West Coast, late 70'ies. If I ever retrieve the clip (probably in a box of memorabilia in the basement), I'll scan it. Believe Alaska Airlines pioneered by getting their first female pilot around the mid-70'ies. Don't know which one was first.
Teddy R – you're right that the "glass ceiling" is definitely a sad fact. Not so much about ill-will, more due to the genders having different codes of speech and conduct. This alienation will improve slowly but surely, as modern kids are allowed to share the same environments and grow used to each other. There's hope.
Basil – thanks for giving us a female bosun on a tall ship. Impressive. Wonder if she would have got there 30-40 yrs ago… Any other examples out there?
Rananim – Do believe your story about those female pax: Men tend to lean back and reckon the airline vouch for the competence of their pilots. Alas – there were sooo many better female pilots than Amelia in those early days! (Guess you have to die to make the headlines forever after.) Check Beryl Markham and others who made it on their own by actual virtue, then lived to ripe old age.
Flystudent – "quotas" are indeed a sore spot. Must admit though, that even if they seem unfair to some and often are enforced in a clumsy way, they do serve a purpose. Women are not a minority (about 50% of the population). Africans are not a minority on their own continent. Most 3rd world (?) airlines have programmes to get their natives into the cockpit. Of course, white western males have been in command of the aviation business since the very start, so that most of us are led to believe they're the only species who can fly an aircraft. Give the rest equal time to catch up, then take stock!
Maxalt – Won't write off your "information" completely, although it may be somewhat distorted after being processed via your personal filter. We all know that men are known to use any means to obtain their goals, never mind whose job they take, so whose legs are you trying to pull? Better luck in the previous century, dear.
Keep up the good work, an' spill your guts, guys & gals! 
Have noted that during the last decade the gender gap in aviation has closed somewhat, which is really encouraging. Especially the younger generation men are getting more comfortable about sharing their work environment with women.
Guess that as the number of female pilots is increasing, there will be all kinds present: Also the very few who habitually resort to tears for "problem-solving". Why, in another 20 yrs one doing that would be told brusquely to pull herself together and continue, or better yet may have learned this by ample exposure to the male environment. Guys responding to tears in the old-fashioned way also show that they have a few miles to go... Evolution takes time, dear gentlemen. Stay tuned.
In the earlier ages (60-70'ies) maybe the conduct of female pilots had to be strictly professional in order to get them somewhere – or maybe other types of women were attracted to flying than today's (actual interest in aviation, not just "another job"). Believe that most of us more easily notice/remember a gal goofing on a sim-check etc than when a guy does, because they are few so they draw attention.
I remember the days when men had all kinds of hilarious reasons for women not being suitable for flying positions. (One old airline captain assured me that the only skirt he'd ever see in his cockpit would be the stew serving them coffee…) Then, after gals had been around for a while and I reminded the guys of their previous statements, those very ones had gotten used to the phenomenon and could no longer see "the problem". Nice.
Men are somewhat primitive beings. I do enjoy/envy that – as expressed in old PC lingo: WYSIWYG. Wish more women were able to adopt some of that attitude, thus simplify their acts a wee bit for the benefit of all. MOST women could use some more ambition plus sharper elbows, and tone down their nurturing instinct. (Of course, in here I'm only addressing the typical extremes of either gender, who are most visible.) Believe any unbiased pilots will accept female colleagues (or coloured) if they can perform the task at hand.
Bamse01 – Check the grammar, it shows that I was referring to an airline in America, not AA. Think it was on the West Coast, late 70'ies. If I ever retrieve the clip (probably in a box of memorabilia in the basement), I'll scan it. Believe Alaska Airlines pioneered by getting their first female pilot around the mid-70'ies. Don't know which one was first.
Teddy R – you're right that the "glass ceiling" is definitely a sad fact. Not so much about ill-will, more due to the genders having different codes of speech and conduct. This alienation will improve slowly but surely, as modern kids are allowed to share the same environments and grow used to each other. There's hope.
Basil – thanks for giving us a female bosun on a tall ship. Impressive. Wonder if she would have got there 30-40 yrs ago… Any other examples out there?
Rananim – Do believe your story about those female pax: Men tend to lean back and reckon the airline vouch for the competence of their pilots. Alas – there were sooo many better female pilots than Amelia in those early days! (Guess you have to die to make the headlines forever after.) Check Beryl Markham and others who made it on their own by actual virtue, then lived to ripe old age.
Flystudent – "quotas" are indeed a sore spot. Must admit though, that even if they seem unfair to some and often are enforced in a clumsy way, they do serve a purpose. Women are not a minority (about 50% of the population). Africans are not a minority on their own continent. Most 3rd world (?) airlines have programmes to get their natives into the cockpit. Of course, white western males have been in command of the aviation business since the very start, so that most of us are led to believe they're the only species who can fly an aircraft. Give the rest equal time to catch up, then take stock!
Maxalt – Won't write off your "information" completely, although it may be somewhat distorted after being processed via your personal filter. We all know that men are known to use any means to obtain their goals, never mind whose job they take, so whose legs are you trying to pull? Better luck in the previous century, dear.
Keep up the good work, an' spill your guts, guys & gals!