EC-130 Crash California
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: on the ground
The extraordinary levels of safety being achieved in scheduled commercial passenger aviation in recent years are the result of an obsessive focus on safety.
Yes, mistakes happen, but most are recognised possibilities with mitigations in place, like "land and live".
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
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From: California
If one day of bad decisions makes you a dead pilot with dead passengers, yes, it makes you a bad pilot, and no, you won't be able to live with that.
The extraordinary levels of safety being achieved in scheduled commercial passenger aviation in recent years are the result of an obsessive focus on safety.
Yes, mistakes happen, but most are recognised possibilities with mitigations in place, like "land and live".
The extraordinary levels of safety being achieved in scheduled commercial passenger aviation in recent years are the result of an obsessive focus on safety.
Yes, mistakes happen, but most are recognised possibilities with mitigations in place, like "land and live".
Interesting way of looking at life. Not my cup of tea, but as the kids say, "You do you".
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 557
Likes: 27
From: At home
So, every pilot (regardless of experience level, or history) that has died from making a bad decision is a bad pilot? So, like if next week Sully made a bad decision that got himself killed, he's now considered a bad pilot?
Interesting way of looking at life. Not my cup of tea, but as the kids say, "You do you".
Interesting way of looking at life. Not my cup of tea, but as the kids say, "You do you".
The point we are trying to make is that earlier you said **** happens, and no fancy equipment as you call it or risk assessment would make a difference to that…
So accidents are just **** happens.,, that why they are called accidents as you say.
If this is your honest opinion, then you have survived this long based on luck and probably not too much exposure (hours in the air)
If Sully makes a fatal mistake tomorrow, he is generally not a bad pilot, but he has then made a fatal mistake that he can not live with!! Only issue with this is that he is this old for a reason, although I am sure that he has made lots of mistakes in his career… but not fatal ones. I’m sure as **** he has not classified many of the mistakes as **** happens, besides the moment he is most known for…. That was a **** happens example and quite a lot of luck saved their lives.
Get the point??
Last edited by Nubian; 21st February 2024 at 09:21.
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: Texas
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
Likes: 65
From: California
I think you should stop looking at it as a “good pilot-bad pilot” generalisation.
The point we are trying to make is that earlier you said **** happens, and no fancy equipment as you call it or risk assessment would make a difference to that…
So accidents are just **** happens.,, that why they are called accidents as you say.
If this is your honest opinion, then you have survived this long based on luck and probably not too much exposure (hours in the air)
If Sully makes a fatal mistake tomorrow, he is generally not a bad pilot, but he has then made a fatal mistake that he can not live with!! Only issue with this is that he is this old for a reason, although I am sure that he has made lots of mistakes in his career… but not fatal ones. I’m sure as **** he has not classified many of the mistakes as **** happens, besides the moment he is most known for…. That was a **** happens example and quite a lot of luck saved their lives.
Get the point??
The point we are trying to make is that earlier you said **** happens, and no fancy equipment as you call it or risk assessment would make a difference to that…
So accidents are just **** happens.,, that why they are called accidents as you say.
If this is your honest opinion, then you have survived this long based on luck and probably not too much exposure (hours in the air)
If Sully makes a fatal mistake tomorrow, he is generally not a bad pilot, but he has then made a fatal mistake that he can not live with!! Only issue with this is that he is this old for a reason, although I am sure that he has made lots of mistakes in his career… but not fatal ones. I’m sure as **** he has not classified many of the mistakes as **** happens, besides the moment he is most known for…. That was a **** happens example and quite a lot of luck saved their lives.
Get the point??
My chain of bad decisions the day I almost died, was in spite of my knowing that what I was doing was a bad idea. It wasn't overconfidence, I just turned off my brain because I was overcome by "get the job done" itis. Why did I do that? I don't really know? Why do good pilots sometimes make bad decisions? **** happens, that's why.
Get the point?
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 557
Likes: 27
From: At home
No, I don't get your point.
My chain of bad decisions the day I almost died, was in spite of my knowing that what I was doing was a bad idea. It wasn't overconfidence, I just turned off my brain because I was overcome by "get the job done" itis. Why did I do that? I don't really know? Why do good pilots sometimes make bad decisions? **** happens, that's why.
Get the point?
My chain of bad decisions the day I almost died, was in spite of my knowing that what I was doing was a bad idea. It wasn't overconfidence, I just turned off my brain because I was overcome by "get the job done" itis. Why did I do that? I don't really know? Why do good pilots sometimes make bad decisions? **** happens, that's why.
Get the point?
I have better things to do, then arguing with you.
Wish you all the best of luck. You need it.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 81
Likes: 166
From: uk
No, I don't get your point.
My chain of bad decisions the day I almost died, was in spite of my knowing that what I was doing was a bad idea. It wasn't overconfidence, I just turned off my brain because I was overcome by "get the job done" itis. Why did I do that? I don't really know? Why do good pilots sometimes make bad decisions? **** happens, that's why.
Get the point?
My chain of bad decisions the day I almost died, was in spite of my knowing that what I was doing was a bad idea. It wasn't overconfidence, I just turned off my brain because I was overcome by "get the job done" itis. Why did I do that? I don't really know? Why do good pilots sometimes make bad decisions? **** happens, that's why.
Get the point?
That is the difference between good and bad pilots, recognising you have made an error before it becomes a fatal one or as in your case a near miss.
This is an important safety point which you should really take on board - what was the urgency to get the job done? Lifesaving?
What is concerning is that you are happy to dismiss it as **** happens rather than analysing why you 'turned off your brain' and then portraying it as some sort of big boy's adventure.
All pilots have near misses and most of the time that is due to circumstances beyond their control - yours wasn't. Own it don't dismiss it.
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Den Haag
That is the difference between good and bad pilots, recognising you have made an error before it becomes a fatal one or as in your case a near miss.
Joined: Sep 2018
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Posts: 888
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From: California
Lmfao! Sure dude.
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: EGDC
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
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From: California
Originally Posted by [email protected]
We can't tell how you feel - we can just see what you post
I just said that "Sometimes good pilots make bad decisions,...and that's because sometimes **** just happens", because I simply believe that we can't control everything in life, no matter how hard we try.
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
Likes: 65
From: California
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Yup, you know best Robbiee and the hundreds of thousands of hours of experience on these pages know nothing..........................
,...oh and by the way, I did actually post that I'd be "embarrassed when they found my dead body, with my Land and Live cap on my head". So yeah, you DO know how I felt!
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,185
Likes: 542
From: Lost again...
Making a mistake or an error of judgement isn't just an act of God or fate or Karma or whatever.
That it happens to all of us is undeniable but the phrases " *** happens" and "we all make mistakes" absolutely do not mean the same thing (or certainly should not mean the same thing in aviation).
If the wind blows a tree down onto my garage it could be argued that " *** happened"
If i decide to try and cut it down, screw it up and it falls on my garage then " I was ***t"
If you had come into this conversation with the phrase "Sometimes we all make dumb decisions that we can't properly explain afterwards" then i think the forum would be overwhelmingly with you.
But to dismiss it with a blase' " *** happens" sounds like you are suggesting that you were not responsible.
S*** did not happen. You did something.
That it happens to all of us is undeniable but the phrases " *** happens" and "we all make mistakes" absolutely do not mean the same thing (or certainly should not mean the same thing in aviation).
If the wind blows a tree down onto my garage it could be argued that " *** happened"
If i decide to try and cut it down, screw it up and it falls on my garage then " I was ***t"
If you had come into this conversation with the phrase "Sometimes we all make dumb decisions that we can't properly explain afterwards" then i think the forum would be overwhelmingly with you.
But to dismiss it with a blase' " *** happens" sounds like you are suggesting that you were not responsible.
S*** did not happen. You did something.
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
Likes: 65
From: California
Making a mistake or an error of judgement isn't just an act of God or fate or Karma or whatever.
That it happens to all of us is undeniable but the phrases " *** happens" and "we all make mistakes" absolutely do not mean the same thing (or certainly should not mean the same thing in aviation).
If the wind blows a tree down onto my garage it could be argued that " *** happened"
If i decide to try and cut it down, screw it up and it falls on my garage then " I was ***t"
If you had come into this conversation with the phrase "Sometimes we all make dumb decisions that we can't properly explain afterwards" then i think the forum would be overwhelmingly with you.
But to dismiss it with a blase' " *** happens" sounds like you are suggesting that you were not responsible.
S*** did not happen. You did something.
That it happens to all of us is undeniable but the phrases " *** happens" and "we all make mistakes" absolutely do not mean the same thing (or certainly should not mean the same thing in aviation).
If the wind blows a tree down onto my garage it could be argued that " *** happened"
If i decide to try and cut it down, screw it up and it falls on my garage then " I was ***t"
If you had come into this conversation with the phrase "Sometimes we all make dumb decisions that we can't properly explain afterwards" then i think the forum would be overwhelmingly with you.
But to dismiss it with a blase' " *** happens" sounds like you are suggesting that you were not responsible.
S*** did not happen. You did something.
I never said I wasn't responsible. I mearly stated that the reason good pilots sometimes make bad decisions (even when they're telling themselves not to do it) is because sometimes **** just happens.
Its like when sometimes you just say the wrong thing (i e put your foot in your mouth, as the saying goes), like when a bad joke just slips out,...just ask Fuzzy Zellor! Sometimes your common sense just takes a break for a bit.
You guys are gonna drive me to drink! Seriously, this is worse than the arguments over what "Settling with Power" means!
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 81
Likes: 166
From: uk
I never said I wasn't responsible. I mearly stated that the reason good pilots sometimes make bad decisions (even when they're telling themselves not to do it) is because sometimes **** just happens.
That is just dumb behaviour and you take that risk because you think you are good enough to get away with it.
Keep your ego out of the cockpit.