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EC-130 Crash California

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EC-130 Crash California

Old 10th Feb 2024, 18:24
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EC-130 Crash California

CNN is reporting the crash of an EC 130 in California, with six fatalities. Not much detail yet...

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/10/us/mo...ash/index.html
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Old 10th Feb 2024, 20:09
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That’s bad news…

I have driven between L.V. and Barstow CA quite a few times and there really isn’t much out there where this occurrence took place. Also given the weather that CA has been getting recently a dark night would be very dark…
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 02:46
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ard-rcna138224

Nigerian Bank CEO was one of those killed.

Weather showed rain and snow in the area near the border.
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:10
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Pilot and "safety pilot", flying a VFR B4 through mountains, at night, in weather, with Nigerian bankers on board. Is this real or a Darcy Hoover novel?

"Flight-tracking data shows the helicopter was travelling along the interstate about 1,000 to 1,500 feet (304.80 to 457.20 metres) above ground level, Graham said during a Sunday news conference. The aircraft made a slight right turn, turning south of the roadway, and the data then shows a gradual descent and increasing ground speed.

The wreckage site shows that helicopter hit the ground with its nose low at a right-bank angle, Graham said, adding that meteorologists have confirmed the weather included precipitation. The debris field was about 100 yards (91.44 metres) long."

Last edited by malabo; 12th Feb 2024 at 02:52.
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 18:56
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I'll ask Darcy.
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Old 12th Feb 2024, 11:38
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One of my friends, who runs an Aviation Safety consultancy business, based in Lagos, said he approached this bank last year to brief them on the merits of using Travel Risk Assessments for staff, but they were not interested. The word 'schadenfreude' has crossed his mind........
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Old 12th Feb 2024, 14:07
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR
CNN is reporting the crash of an EC 130 in California, with six fatalities. Not much detail yet...

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/10/us/mo...ash/index.html
"National Transportation Safety Board member Michael Graham said at a news conference Saturday night. All six people on board — the pilot-in-command, a safety pilot and four passengers — were killed, Graham said."
safety pilot?
I see a can of worms here.
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Old 12th Feb 2024, 15:56
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I don't think 212 man mentioned getting pleasure from someone dying but perhaps Karma would be more appropriate.
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Old 12th Feb 2024, 17:24
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Originally Posted by JimEli
"National Transportation Safety Board member Michael Graham said at a news conference Saturday night. All six people on board — the pilot-in-command, a safety pilot and four passengers — were killed, Graham said."
safety pilot?
I see a can of worms here.
No can of worms.

Many "A" r "B" list types use agencis to find them charters these days---especially in the LA basin. Often times they require 2 pilots---hence the term "Safety Pilot" or some companies merely call it a "Pilots assistant" as technically only one person can log the time if the tyupe certificate does not require 2 pilots.

It is a common practice.
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Old 12th Feb 2024, 18:56
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I have driven this route. No way in Hell I'd fly it at night in a VFR only helicopter!

I had my fill of night over the desert when I flew an R22 with my instructor from Scottsdale, AZ to Long Beach, CA two nights before my PPL checkride, and the night before that from Scottsdale to Tuscon, AZ, where I started to get disorientated just before the lights of Tuscon saved me.
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Old 12th Feb 2024, 22:07
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Originally Posted by Gordy
No can of worms.
...
It is a common practice.
What exactly is the function and/or duty of the “pilot assistant”? Monitor PIC heart rate and respiration? Twiddle thumbs? Distract the PIC? Can the assistant manipulate controls? What training (CRM) has/needs to be accomplished to operate with or as an assistant pilot? Does the operator have an SOP for this operating environment?
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Old 12th Feb 2024, 23:31
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Originally Posted by JimEli
What exactly is the function and/or duty of the “pilot assistant”? Monitor PIC heart rate and respiration? Twiddle thumbs? Distract the PIC? Can the assistant manipulate controls? What training (CRM) has/needs to be accomplished to operate with or as an assistant pilot? Does the operator have an SOP for this operating environment?
No, Jim. The "safety pilot" is merely a sandbag. He probably has a rating but has too few hours to be considered a PIC. So he rides along on flight where the customer requests/requires two pilots. At the destination, he hops out and unloads the pax and bags and makes sure nobody walks into the tail rotor (if it has one). If he's wearing a white shirt and epaulets, the customer won't ever know that he's not a fully-qualified Part-135 captain. If he's lucky, the return leg is empty and he actually can log some stick-time. I did this quite a lot in my younger days. I'm sure people still do. At the end of the day, it's still a single-pilot operation, and the PIC is the guy-in-charge, just as if the other guy wasn't there at all.
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Old 13th Feb 2024, 00:08
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Originally Posted by FH1100 Pilot
No, Jim. The "safety pilot" is merely a sandbag. He probably has a rating but has too few hours to be considered a PIC. So he rides along on flight where the customer requests/requires two pilots. At the destination, he hops out and unloads the pax and bags and makes sure nobody walks into the tail rotor (if it has one). If he's wearing a white shirt and epaulets, the customer won't ever know that he's not a fully-qualified Part-135 captain. If he's lucky, the return leg is empty and he actually can log some stick-time. I did this quite a lot in my younger days. I'm sure people still do. At the end of the day, it's still a single-pilot operation, and the PIC is the guy-in-charge, just as if the other guy wasn't there at all.
What's the purpose of requiring a sandbag? It doesn't appear to have benefitted the flight in question (incidental contributing factor?).
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Old 13th Feb 2024, 02:31
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Yep, pprune is a rough sandbox.

LA basin has had its share of dead rich guys riding helicopters. Like 212man points out, where's the operational risk assessment and control on these type of charters?

Did the PIC have single-pilot night IFR experience in an unstabilized helicopter? How often did he practise inadvertent IMC low-level: check heading, climb 500', 180 turn, wait 30 seconds, descend? Those of us with that kind of experience tell me "hell no". Give me a de-iced 139 and I'll think about it.

They took the long way 'round, maintaining VFR, 1000-1500' above terrain, so they were thinking about it...

The "safety pilot" thing isn't completely new. Didn't Australia fly EMS 139 with a "qualified crewman" without even a license in the left seat? Some rich guys with their own helicopter and a license wisely bring along someone that knows what they're doing, done that. Still trying to wrap my mind around this operation being normalized from a regulator/flight safety perspective.





Hit the ground 4 miles from the I-15 we think they were trying to follow, big oops.



Last edited by malabo; 13th Feb 2024 at 14:29.
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Old 13th Feb 2024, 04:34
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Originally Posted by malabo
"Flight-tracking data shows the helicopter was travelling along the interstate about 1,000 to 1,500 feet (304.80 to 457.20 metres) above ground level, Graham said during a Sunday news conference. The aircraft made a slight right turn, turning south of the roadway, and the data then shows a gradual descent and increasing ground speed.

The wreckage site shows that helicopter hit the ground with its nose low at a right-bank angle, Graham said, adding that meteorologists have confirmed the weather included precipitation. The debris field was about 100 yards (91.44 metres) long."
How difficult can it be - while looking at a wide synthetic vision screen - to maintain a safe height AGL and a constant speed?
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Old 13th Feb 2024, 09:56
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Originally Posted by Hot and Hi
How difficult can it be - while looking at a wide synthetic vision screen - to maintain a safe height AGL and a constant speed?
Disorientation.
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Old 13th Feb 2024, 14:33
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Disorientation.
4 years and a few days past the N72EX accident. How quickly we forget?
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Old 13th Feb 2024, 16:02
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The USMC CH-53 crash happened almost on the exact same day as the S-76 crash 4 years ago and just a few days prior to the EC130 this month. All 3 weather/decision making related in mountainous terrain.
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Old 13th Feb 2024, 16:26
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Originally Posted by Hot and Hi
How difficult can it be - while looking at a wide synthetic vision screen - to maintain a safe height AGL and a constant speed?
Unless you're prepared to do so?

Very!
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Old 13th Feb 2024, 17:59
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Originally Posted by JimEli
What exactly is the function and/or duty of the “pilot assistant”? Monitor PIC heart rate and respiration? Twiddle thumbs? Distract the PIC? Can the assistant manipulate controls? What training (CRM) has/needs to be accomplished to operate with or as an assistant pilot? Does the operator have an SOP for this operating environment?
So I guess it depends on the organization. The one I was involved with, the 2nd pilot was a rated pilot with a 135 checkride in the aircraft---either pilot could have flown the flight. Yes they were traiend on 2 pilot operations under our SOP. One would be polt flying, the other was PNF just like the airlines.
I canot speak for the operator involved in this accident as I do not know.
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