Would you become a Professional Pilot again?

[Banjo George]

Wise words whirlybird, wise words indeed. You have me intrigued now aboute the situations that were absolute 'hell'. Were they in or out of the cockpit ?

Sorry, being a bit nosey, but I have this picture conjured up in my head of a pilot heading for power lines or something ????

To be honest, the more one reads, the more uncertain one becomes, but I think I'm still pretty much fixed on getting the PPL(H) and then taking it from there. The BMW LT1200 touring bike will just have to wait ....

The thing that started me off again along the route to heli-flying (this is my 3rd 'attempt') was going up in a Hughes over Fjordland in NZ. Man, what a job that bloke had. In the 25 mins we waited for him, he lifted a load of hunters up into the mountains, came back and slung a small boat underneath, took someone else up into the mountains with the boat, and then took us for a flight around a frozen caldera at about 10,000ft.

I thought 'I've gotta do this, even if the pay is crap'. Of course, maybe he was bored ****less by it all, who knows .........

'ChickenHawk' by Bob Mason has influenced me quite a bit too. Great book. Anyhow, thanks again.

[boomerangben]

Hi Banjo,

It sounds like you are in a lucky position - to have the cash to do this. There are many out there with big loans and no job.

If I was you start by flying for fun - after all you can (by the sound of it) afford it. I would do the ppl (as quickly as you can) and then see how you like it. Build some hours up, but be structured about it, practice the navigation, handling, emergencies etc and remember to enjoy it too. If you still want a career from it (and I bet you will) start to do the exams for the commercials. and then the flying course. Then hour build, then instructors etc....

If you take it one step at a time, and then find that you don't like it, can't get a job, run out of cash, then you still have your old job to fall back on. And you will able to continue flying for fun.

There is no one in this industry who can predict what the job market will be in a years time - it is a gamble. But it can work out for you, just don't hold your breathe. It took me 4.5 years from starting my ppl to getting a commercial job, and that was quicker than many others. I know that makes the full time course sound more attractive, but unless you are certain you can get your old job back in a years time, to me at least, it would be too big a risk.

Don't worry too much about the maths, it is not as advanced as the O level maths I did. If maths is still a worry, I believe the open university do an introductory maths course which I hear is excellent.

If you want it - go for it. I did and I have been lucky - I am flying that dream!

[Banjo George]

Thanks Boomerrangben, I think I've had better advice from the people on this site in the last 2 days than in about 6 months of research !!!!!

Anyhow, very interesting and motivating to hear your particular story. You're right, the cash is a big advantage and I'm in a very strong position from that POV. I know I want to change career, badly, but there's a major gamble blowing the cash on heli or spending it on some other re-training. I'm unlikely to ever be able to replace that kind of money !!

[airborne_artist]

BG

Re-train as a plumber, invest yr cash in the business, build it up, using yr skills in PM etc, and then you'll be able to afford to PPL(H) when you like.


OK, perhaps not entirely serious, but I suspect there's more work for plumbers with a couple of years experience that pilots right now, and expansion of the EU will only bring more people with ex-mil skills that will work for less than a UK guy/guyess, with a UK mortgage.

You've not outlined your other commitments so it's not clear if you are a totally free agent, or just someone totally fed-up, and having sensibly tucked away something to use in phase 2.

[Whirlybird]

You have me intrigued now about the situations that were absolute 'hell'. Were they in or out of the cockpit ?

Sorry, being a bit nosey, but I have this picture conjured up in my head of a pilot heading for power lines or something ????

No no no, nothing like that! I was thinking of...

a) The course for the CPL ground exams. I really struggle with technical stuff, and I found them hard. A month's course didn't sound long; living it was. I told myself if I failed more than half first go I'd pack it in; I passed 7 out of 9 and wasn't sure if I was elated, or annoyed because that meant I had to resit two and then do the other five.

b) The instructors course. The first time I've ever not liked flying. There may still be a thread about it somewhere, if you do a search. Thinking back now, I'm not sure why I had such a hard time with it, but I did. Maybe it was just comparing myself with a 30,00 hour instructor, and realising just how little I knew about flying.

The exciting bits - flying down canyons and auto-rotating off an 8000 ft mountain with an instructor in the US, landing in a tiny clearing in the forest in Russia with a crazy ex-army instructor...that was FUN!

[Banjo George]

Hmmmm, interesting stuff Whirly and Airborne.

Ironically, my brother has just left the aircraft manufacture industry (which is pretty dead in this country) and trained to become a plumber. Allegedly the 'plumber shortage' hype is pretty much 'hype' unless you live in a blackspot. Sadly, it has major headaches too, like getting people to pay. It's certainly something I've considered, albeit briefly.

However, I'm single, own my house (which is worth a fair old crack) and have money to spend on heli's if I want. I expect several people would think me insane NOT to try the heli route as I have advantage and disadvantage in equal measure probably. I think perhaps I'm a bit too cautious by nature, but learning abroad could be great I should imagine.

I live not far from Manchester Airport and even at the anoraky age of 39, I still love to watch 747-400's taking off etc, so I guess it is in the blood.

What are the CPL exams like ? Is it mainly interesting stuff ? I'm actually quite interested in navigation 'cos I do a lot of hill-walking with a GPS/compass etc. I expect air law is somewhat 'dry' ................................

[J.A.F.O.]

I'd be gutted blowing 50 grand on training and then going back to PM

And how gutted would you be if you got the the age of 50, were still in PM and still had your £50,000 in a nice safe high interest account?

I do a lot of hill-walking

Then you'll know that it is often the steepest, hardest climb that gives the best view. Mountains, life, it's all the same.

[Banjo George]

JAFO - you're completely right of course - thanks for reminding me. It was EXACTLY that '50yrs old and still a PM' thought that made me decide benefits outweigh risks.

Thanks for all the encouragement, generally.

Probably no time at all and I'll be making a complete arse out of myself in a Schweizer or something and ruining the trainers day.

[goaround7]

Banjo,

Why don't you buy (a share in) a helicopter ? Then, do your PPL much more cheaply as long as you don't crash and then if you don't want to continue to CPL you can play as much as you want, sell again or trade up.

If you do want CPL, sell the chopper or use it to build hours cheaply and then you use it commercially eg. instruction afterwards. Friend of mine did just that here.

Also, apart from eg. off shore guys, many experienced heli pilots and for that matter, airline guys, have second businesses often not related to aviation, on the side. Most guys like us who paid for the training (rather than military route) are half decent at something else and make some real cash that way.

You don't have to be full time either - plenty part time instructors. Depends on your addiction (which it is by the way.).

Oh yes, and we rarely shoot animals dead. Only in fact in a cull which can be a bit sickening or if the animal's been wounded, say by a hunter. Usually we are darting for capture or with a vaccine or an injured animal that needs attention. That's actually pretty rewarding. And a wee bit challenging at times...

[Banjo George]

Thanks goaround. Yet ANOTHER possibility to consider, and a good idea. The impression I get is that other countries tend to make far more use of heli than in the UK - where it's used almost as a 'speciality' vehicle - don't know if the guys in the trade would agree with that or not. UK airspace seems to be somewhat crowded ?!?!?

I'm almost certaion that any long term future I would have in helis would be abroad.

Don't want to stray into politics, but the word 'hunting' makes me see red. Glad to hear there's a purpose behind using helis not simply to shoot at things for a laugh.

[Whirlybird]

What are the CPL exams like ? Is it mainly interesting stuff ? I'm actually quite interested in navigation 'cos I do a lot of hill-walking with a GPS/compass etc.

Some of it is interesting. Much of it is fixed wing orientated facts and figures which you need for the exams, and will forget immediately afterwards. As an instructor on R22s, I've yet to find much use for my now forgotten knowledge of machmeters, jet streams, or which degree of freedom it is if one country overflies another country's airspace but doesn't land there. On the other hand, I do now understand met a lot better, I have a reasonable idea how my instruments work, and a much better understanding of helicopter aerodynamics. It's just a pity that my overworked little brain can't selectively remember the useful stuff and forget the crap.

Hill walking nav is somewhat different, I'm afraid. However, the ability to read 1;50,000 OS maps will help when you come to the CPL flying...except I bet you never tried to follow one while flying at 70kts! As a walker since childhood, I still remember my instructor's face when he told me I'd probably never seen one before, and I said I'd been using OS maps for years and years.

[ec135driver]

Ok mate here goes, I've done it. That is I had a wad of cash (sold my house) and went off to be a helicopter pilot! You might be able to tell from my username that I made it and currently fly the best light twin helo for the best onshore company in the uk doing the best job around (duck - incoming!!!)

Here's how I did it - at 30 I went off to the States and did the full program there, private, commercial, CFI etc came back to this country, spent a shedload more cash and got all the same ratings again.

Advice? get only quality hours while training, don't fly around for the sake of flying, have an instructor with you every hour you can and make sure you practice until you can fly it with your eyes shut - I still do! (that was a joke - pax)

Get a company that will employ you as an instructor, build hours hard and fast- NEVER turn down a flight and look smart too.

Make sure you have enough hours to COMFORTABLY exceed the UK CAA minimums for the ATPL(H) Get an instrument rating too, doesn't matter that it will probably be in a single, just get the hours in.

Don't let the military "junta" here in the UK put you off, it's not rocket science and a thousand hours "dipping" in the SW approaches doesn't make you a better pilot at Silverstone GP time (more incoming!)

Apply yourself at all times to every aspect, practice, practice practice and then practice some more.

I had it tough of course - I had to persuade my wife it was a good idea! - one more thing, don't even think of making back the money you spend - it won't happen. But I haven't regreted a penny of it

Do it

p.s remember to practice

[Banjo George]

Thanks Whirly and ec135.

How did you support yourself whilst training in the States ? I'm assuming you didn't live in a motel and suchlike.

Also, roughly how long did it take you - I'm guessing you're pretty good at it so maybe it'll take longer for others.

Is a CAA class 1 medical valid in the States do you know ?

Any guesses as to how much it's cost you - if you don't mind ?

Brilliant advice, thanks.

[ec135driver]

£50,000 or $85,000 will get you 6months training, PPL, CPL, CFI IR etc all exams (written and practical)

Rent of an apartment, food, a cheap car, gas, beer, a few haircuts and still leave money left over for conversion in a few years when you get home.

Try Helicopter Adventures, they are serious about training.

I can personally recommend Quantum Helicopters in Chandler Arizona, speak to Neil Jones (owner) They have a website too.

Keep us up to date will ya?

[diethelm]

I too can recommend Quantum. I received a PPL, IR, CPL and an R44 transition program and spent less than $40,000.

[Banjo George]

Thanks diet and ec. I'll look into your suggestions as a matter of urgency.

At the minute, I'm a bit overwhelmed with all the possible routes I could be taking - which is good.

I'm kicking myself now that in the 15 or so trips I've made to the US, I've never once thought to look into flying there. Doh ........

[moosp]

A year or so ago on a plank wing thread on Pprune a "Wannabee" was cautioned that, "Pilots eat their young." If you read some of their threads you get the point.

But Rotorheads does not. They tell it like it is to new enquirers, which is generally hard and expensive and requires sacrifices. But after a while reading the forum you realise that this is one group of people who are doing what they want to do in life.

Mostly the pay is moderate to low, but they accept that as the price they pay for lifting the collective each morning. They go back to their moderate dwelling in a used car after a day that varies between mundane and the peak of the aviation profession.

Perhaps the highest level of heroism in the world today is found in the helicopter air sea rescue services. To see that as the pinnacle of what you hope to do gives the junior guys a feeling of being part of a very respected group of professionals.

The change from your social environment in the office of a Project Manager where your status depends on your latest car or the latest plasma tv will be dramatic. I have seen that professional helicopter pilots are not interested in what you own, but what you can do. Your position in the hierachy is based on your flying ability, on your experience, and your reserve in telling anyone about your skills.

UKL50,000 will buy you many things. If you choose to spend it on the start of a helicopter career it may be the best money you've ever spent. As long as you realise that it will not buy you Sunday colour section riches, but the richness of having made a difference.

[Banjo George]

Thanks Moosp, infact thanks to all who've taken the time to read and/or reply.

You are right in your observation that the Heli pilots are a close knit bunch on the face of it. Maybe that's what attracted me to becoming a heli instead of fw in the first place ?!?!?!?!? Despite knowing relatively little as a beginner, I detect a rich vein of cameraderie - probably similar to those in the fire service, police or army I guess. Sadly lacking many other places however ......

I am indeed going to 'go for it' and keep reading / contributing to the forum.

One minor point - us PM's don't all have plasma screen TV's !!!! No, we just have 'live' dancing girls on the projects, har, har.

....but you're right, I'm NOT going into aviation to make a wad of cash as I genuinely believe flying will be more fulfilling. A wage substantial enough to not have to worry excessively about making ends meet will be quite sufficient.

[Brilliant Stuff]

Well I just read the whole thread and I can only agree with everything everybody said .
We are a tightnit comunity, this industry is small which means we have to look after eachother and support eachother.
When you start your training you will soon know if it is really for you or wether you should change your mind.

Do not worry about the job side there will be jobs outhere waiting for you. Why? Because people are retiring due to age.

Just concentrate on learning everything you can.
Why don't you train here and do some hour building in the states, where else can you fly the morning traffic report in a Jetranger over build up area and do some pinacle landings for relative peanuts like Flying lawyer did.
If you have a broad sprectrum of experience and are professional, you can not go wrong.
The salary will pay your living expenses.
And it means you no longer have to work.

I only worked one day in my life and that was spent 2 hours in the hover over bristol waiting for a nutshell to leave for it's sail across the atlantic.

The people I can recommend from my training are Bristol Groundschool for your NAVS, Mike at Bonus Aviation in Cranfield for your techs though you might have to remind him you fly helicopters and not FW.

THE Mike Green who I am told is now the Chief training Instructor at the Helicentre in Blackpool before he was working at Fast in Thruxton.

You might want to check P.A.S. at Gloucester they have a sister company which do Instrument training using simulators.
Currently a Instrument rating costs £28000 plus conversion onto a twin engined helicopter like a Twin Squirrel which would another £3000.
I am told they are trying to convince the CAA that more hours on the simulator are just as good as on the Aircraft thus saving a bundle.

Now my recomendations are 10 years old but I was not told any different.

Definitely do the Safety Course at Robinson in California (best $350 dollars you will ever have spent) and some Mountain flying in the States as well as our Snowdonia.
If you ever wish to work offshore try Humberside, Norwich or Blackpool.That way you will land at least once every hour or even up to 7 times an hour. Aberdeen means flying in a straight line over blue water or in cloud on autopilot for 90-300 minutes when you might perform one landing before you return.

Of course Offshore is where the money is. Starts at £35 for entry and after 25 years of service finishes at £80. Command might take forever.


And when you get that Job be it flying into Silverstone, filming, pleasureflying, wedding parties pipeline inspection etc.
You know it was worth it and as I said earlier you will not have to work another day.


Now I wish you all the very best and that your take off's tally with your landings.

[discobeast]

Goaround7:

"If you do want CPL, sell the chopper or use it to build hours cheaply and then you use it commercially eg. instruction afterwards. Friend of mine did just that here."

Are you perhaps talking about Linda?

BTW: IMHO a very smart move.