MD Explorer

[volrider]

Unless you know better?

Your scources have not given you the full truth or your putting two and two together and getting five

[dr atkins]

Your right Volrider, Looks like PANews is getting increasingly desperate to try and bully the Explorer fleet by pushing out inaccurate rumour and since when did this thread turn from a spares problem rumour to a 902 bashing thread.
As if PANews doesn't waste enough time on his monthly work of fiction that he has to spread his one sided views here. Still I can't blame him for clutching at straws. He knows as well as all the police units do that the end of the Dutch contract will free up masses of R+D for the Explorer which will blow the 135 and 145 out of the water.

Dr A

[PANews]

As I said it was a rumour, so .....

1. It does not get into print in the magazine unless substantiated.

2. It's open for correction.


If it is substantially wrong [and it was not ME that invented the rumour upon which I based the post] I guess there may be a need for someone out there to put out the correct version.

I like Dr Atkins prescription for putting everything right in MDs camp .... freeing up some research money thanks to the KLPD cancellation .... but MD have gone on public record saying that they are carrying on with certification of the KLPD standard.... so this may take some time.... 3 months Dale said ....

Exactly where the Dr will get '... masses of R+D for the Explorer... ' I would be interested to learn. MD are in a very poor financial state - have you not been listening?

'... which will blow the 135 and 145 out of the water...'

Good.... it would be great to see substantial competition but the 135 is JAR27 and the 145 is JAR29.... perhaps you want to add the EC155 ... 225... and the Tiger to the list....?

Seriously, in its current parlous financial state, even if it happens it will be a long time before MDHI and the Explorer are in a fit enough state to merely pull themselves together let alone blow anything out of the water. Wishful thinking will not magic the spares [the core of this thread] from out of the ether.

There are plenty of operators out there that are publicly ditching the airframe because they claim they have reached the end of their particular tether. Case in point is Suffolk County Police NY. This is not something I have created, I just report what appears to be going on based on their statements in the public domain.

Here? Well fishing for the truth on an incomplete storyline ... just like many others who hide their identity.

I know many have labelled me as a 100% Explorer hater but just reporting stories in the public domain does not mean the stories themselves are without substance.

Volrider.... Accuracy - if you know it as you claim .... can be entered in your next post..... Inaccurate rumours, like the one I picked up, will still wizz around damaging the Explorer unnecessarily unless they are comprehensively put down.

And it its not enough to just say WRONG... You are clearly saying there is something .... and not even that its unimportant.... That is probably worse. You may keep 'the truth' within the UK community but how might that help other operators out of the UK?

As for me being 'increasingly desperate' ...

No, the Explorer is just one [very interesting] aircraft in my domain. Even on a real heavy news day on the type it is just one page in 26, that's nothing.

You want to talk Cessna Caravan?

[Coconutty]

"Inaccurate rumour" - here - REALLY ?

PAN may have assumed it was the West Mids a/c with duff blade pins, as there hasn't been any info to say if their gearbox problem has been sorted, and you you would need to get the blades off before working on the gearbox - WHEN WAS THIS PAN ?

Surely PAS are working on other a/c that also need the blades off - so why else would he assume it was the West Mids one ?

Anyone confirm if that ship is back on line yet ???

[SilsoeSid]

PANews,

I think your sources need tweeking a bit.
WMID hasn't been to BJ for a while now, as I think you are aware!

Still, truth - good story and all that

SS

[jayteeto]

Arguments about single and individual problems won't help here. The thread will turn into a "lets slag off any problem the 902 has" and people will switch off. The questions on downtime and repeat snags are valid, the press have EVERY right to ask what taxpayers money is doing. The arguments should not get personal either. Remember 902 people, we actually want your product to be good. We are brothers in arms who do the same job. We are not in competition, if the 902 'blows the competition away', then brilliant!! Eurocopter will need to keep up with them and we will all get a better product as well. (T2 upgrade is great). However, you should not put up with crap customer support. Big companies will take you to the cleaners if you just roll over.

[PANews]

In view of the previous post I will keep this short....

My post of...

... Explorers [POSSIBLY the West Midlands airframe] at PAS....

assumed [as in POSSIBLY] that there might be only one airframe currently needing major transmission related work at PAS at this time. Obviously wrong.

I did not know, do not know [or care?] where WMID is on a day-to-day basis. Neither do I know where any of the 30 other UK police helicopters are day-to-day.... why on earth would I?

[Notar fan]

If it is substantially wrong [and it was not ME that invented the rumour upon which I based the post] I guess there may be a need for someone out there to put out the correct version.

PANews,
How sad a world is yours when you have to resort to posting on a public forum to gather information worthy of you monthly rantings, and then just don't seem to get why MDHI nor PAS will give you the time of day. One of your problems is that when you can only get one side of the story, you fabricate the other.

On a more technical note, the "redesigned 'fit and forget'' pins were never ever that. The design has hundreds of thousands of hours on them with problems limited to one customer.....but your journalistic expertise in research probably would never show you that.

[SilsoeSid]

PANews,

With respect, you did say;

Unless you know better?

I do, and thought you'd like to know.

Sorry for trying to help you get your facts right.

SS

[PANews]

Notar Fan.

Welcome to the Professional Pilots Rumour Network.

Why are you here?

How do you know about my monthly rantings?

How do you know they are monthly?

Sad place to be every month I reckon.

Nuff said.



Silsoe.... yes, sorry you are right I did ask .... but that did not exactly provide an answer!

[Coconutty]

jayteeto - Quite right too - next thing you know "someone" will be trying to hijack this thread and go into sales mode for suitable 902 replacements !

So before he does - BE WARNED that you will hear "FACTS" quoted that, for example

the EC145 can carry up to 12 passengers for three hours.

( April edition of PAN ) - the EC145 being the chosen new aircraft for UK Met. Police,

While the Met. Police themselves agree that :

Just in case anyone is in any doubt, an EC145 fitted to the 'normal' UK police role equipment spec is NOT capable of carrying 12 pax for any length of time - never mind 3 hours

and in case there was any doubt at all the Eurocopter Web Site says:

Thanks to its spacious cabin and flat floor, the EC 145 can be configured for a multitude of missions such as passenger transport (up to 9 passengers) VIP transport, SAR and EMS missions, law enforcement service operations.

So even quoted facts from PAN aren't always what they seem , never mind the rumours !

[SilsoeSid]

In the words of the great someone or other;

The truth is too precious to tell every fool who asks!

Thats why we have sites like this,

[PANews]

Coconutty that quote ascribed to me was quite clearly a precis ascribed to the Metropolitan Police newspaper The Job. [As quoted, April edition page 7 right at the bottom. The last two words?

[The Job]

Many items in PAN are clearly labelled as to source and errors not necessarily edited out. Errors in the italics I may well plead to.


As far as claimed performance goes professionals know that every airframe has trade-offs.

You can probably go to every UK air support web page operating the Squirrel and read that the AS355F has a 'two hour' patrol time.... uh.... since when?

Shall we tell them off?

I guess that the 145 [which is considerably bigger overall than the 135 and the 900] could quite easily pop a squad of 10 plus the crew across Brixton prison wall but as we all know perfectly well it isn't going to do it non-stop from Glasgow....

The EC Tech Data sheet actually disagrees with The Job. It states '1 or 2 pilots + 7 or 6 passengers....' But I think its likely it means in proper crashworthy seats in that configuration....

Operators such as the French Gendarmerie POSSIBLY where that 12 comes from would not necessarily worry about proper seats for a tactical mission.... so might it be 14?


The truth is too precious to tell every fool who asks!

True!

[Nail The Dream]

Aww shucks - just when we were starting to believe PAN ( yeah right ) when he said

1. It does not get into print in the magazine unless substantiated.

... he goes and spoils it by trying to blame it on someone else - so much for the "news" in his "news"paper

Anyone else thiink he ought to butt out of this thread unless he's got something useful to say about the topic - SPARES AVAILABILITY ??

[EjectEject]

I have been told that West Mids having had their MRGB replaced recently, are off line again. I am told that this latest MRGB only lasted a few days. This time I believe they may be AOG for even longer. I feel really sorry for what they are having to put up with.

[Notar fan]

PANews has a new pen-name.

Its called EjectEject. .........unless they have the same sources, .....cos the sure talk the same

[quichemech]

Having stood between a Bk117(basically the same cabin size as a 145) and a 902, I was surprised at how small the 117 interior is considering it's higher weight. Old technology I hear some of you say, but then is not the145 just a 117 with an undated nose and avionic pack( a little too simplistic I grant you but close enough for you to get the drift).

As for fitting 12 or 14 blokes in it, you're having a laugh! Not the size most coppers are.

PAN, who's your source, he doesn't feed you accurate enough information, hope you're not paying them.

[jayteeto]

Notar Fan, EjectEject was back on thread with rumours about downtime. You say he is talking so thank you for telling us that west mids is not actually u/s with another gearbox problem. Is that correct??

[volrider]

PAN said

Inaccurate rumours, like the one I picked up, will still wizz around damaging the Explorer unnecessarily unless they are comprehensively put down

But you report these inaccurate rumours ie the comment about the passenger abilities of the 145, I know as well as most that you are a Eurocopter fan not sure if that is a"paid" occupation. However it seems you are not on many peoples Christmas card list on this forum

the MD902 is a fine helicopter in fact I would go as far to say its a better helicopter than the EC135 we all know its quieter and the rear cabin has more space, ergo friendly for the drivers.
Sadly this helicopter is heading in my eyes for a Rover/MG fate. Due to MDH and their problems I fear the Emergency services will lose the best equipment they could get for the money (oh the $ makes the 902 cheaper as well!)
I will rue the day if my fears come to fruition, it will be a sad day when Eurocopter have the field the ball and the goalposts all to themselves, don't kid yourself PAN that this will be good for everyone, less chioce means less competition end result the customer gets shafted

[the_flying_cop]

hmmmm how can i put this

i graduated from twin squirrel onto a 902. it looks the part, it sounds (quietly) like the part, a very capable airframe. sure it has had problems, but i challenge you to put your extensive (?) knowlege to name any aircraft type that has not.

sure you cant throw the 902 round like a squirrel and yes its like a large bus in a crosswind but it does exactly what we wanted it to do and more.

one of my colleagues prints out your propaganda every month and leaves it lying round the office. every month i resist picking it up but find myself having to read it to see what nonsense you are spouting this time.

i dont mean to be rude but personally i dont think your mag. is up to much, generally has the same bland content each month. i also chuckled quite heartily to see you dominating this thread trying to justify your existence.

i also understand why many units dont like speaking to you.


regards

TFC.

(ps) imagine if there was another magazine that wrote about the deficiencies of police aviation journalism. i think you would get pretty tired of him ringing you once a week and making up a load of nonsense !

these are my personal views not the view of my employer.