Hours building: Questions, Ideas, Advice, Countries etc
Join Date: Oct 2003
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constructive hour building
Wondered if pilots and potential employers could give me their thoughts on constructive hour building with a view to a cpl.
Money is a consideration so a turbine rating is a no.
Do potential employers for a FI look at the quality of the hours or just the total.
Training in the schweizer( just coming to the end of ukPPL training), should I get a Robinson rating?
Thoughts from those with the experience would be much appreciated
Thanks
Ossie
Money is a consideration so a turbine rating is a no.
Do potential employers for a FI look at the quality of the hours or just the total.
Training in the schweizer( just coming to the end of ukPPL training), should I get a Robinson rating?
Thoughts from those with the experience would be much appreciated
Thanks
Ossie
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not sure of the hourly cost of the shwietzer but i would think the R22 is cheaper for hour building but look at bulk buy of hours this may help but be carefull on doing this
my experience so far is they look at total hours but it helps if you have visited a lot of different airports more so for laterin your career. I know this is a contradiction slightly but mainly total hours then what you have done
for your CPL course you need a good long X Country anyway
Find the school that you wish to do you CPL with get them to assist you in your hour building take an instructor from the school with you to assist and guide you on certain trips, to the tips of the CPL course this will make it far easier when you get to the course
Get you accuracy up to speed get good at cockpit management maps pens ets i know it sounds daft but believe me its not.
If you want any further info PM me and I will give you my telephone number and we can chat more if it helps
And good luck.
Regards
Bravo 99 (AJB)
my experience so far is they look at total hours but it helps if you have visited a lot of different airports more so for laterin your career. I know this is a contradiction slightly but mainly total hours then what you have done
for your CPL course you need a good long X Country anyway
Find the school that you wish to do you CPL with get them to assist you in your hour building take an instructor from the school with you to assist and guide you on certain trips, to the tips of the CPL course this will make it far easier when you get to the course
Get you accuracy up to speed get good at cockpit management maps pens ets i know it sounds daft but believe me its not.
If you want any further info PM me and I will give you my telephone number and we can chat more if it helps
And good luck.
Regards
Bravo 99 (AJB)
Helicopter time builder...
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Hi Apollon
There is no easy way to get low cost heli time unless you are very lucky a way i did was to get one or to friends to want site seeing trips or take friends for a present but the only legal way of doing this was for them to pay the cost of the heli and you log the time you cannot charge for it but you get the time.
i would however point out that as you are low time doing this you may be asked to do things that you dont have the experiace level required to do it. (please dont take offence i am still low time my self) also try to get in with your flying school and see if you can bum the odd ride otherwise the only way is like the rest of use have had to do is pay for it .
so mate but its not that easy i am affraid.
sincerely
Bravo 99 (AJB)
There is no easy way to get low cost heli time unless you are very lucky a way i did was to get one or to friends to want site seeing trips or take friends for a present but the only legal way of doing this was for them to pay the cost of the heli and you log the time you cannot charge for it but you get the time.
i would however point out that as you are low time doing this you may be asked to do things that you dont have the experiace level required to do it. (please dont take offence i am still low time my self) also try to get in with your flying school and see if you can bum the odd ride otherwise the only way is like the rest of use have had to do is pay for it .
so mate but its not that easy i am affraid.
sincerely
Bravo 99 (AJB)
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Good thread!
What about the $120 USD per hour in a Bell 206 in the LA area? I remember that there was a thread about it, but in some way it ended up being about a Chuck guys FI qualification (or lack of it).
Anyone know if this is a approved way of building hours towards the 155 hour req.?
I also need a big chunk of hours. However I've been thinking of what to do during these hours, what should I practice? X-C? Just flying around the local area? Does anyone have an idea, or have any one of you seen plan/lessonplan for hour building? It would be neat to build the time in a structured manner.
Even though one may be financially able to buy the ca 100 hours to the CPL req, the major problem for me is the hours from 185 to 300. Doing the maths for these hours is really sobering. And on top of that - the FI-course.
Any ideas?
What about the $120 USD per hour in a Bell 206 in the LA area? I remember that there was a thread about it, but in some way it ended up being about a Chuck guys FI qualification (or lack of it).
Anyone know if this is a approved way of building hours towards the 155 hour req.?
I also need a big chunk of hours. However I've been thinking of what to do during these hours, what should I practice? X-C? Just flying around the local area? Does anyone have an idea, or have any one of you seen plan/lessonplan for hour building? It would be neat to build the time in a structured manner.
Even though one may be financially able to buy the ca 100 hours to the CPL req, the major problem for me is the hours from 185 to 300. Doing the maths for these hours is really sobering. And on top of that - the FI-course.
Any ideas?
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
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....only legal way of doing this was for them to pay the cost of the heli and you log the time you cannot charge for it but you get the time.
PW
Cool as a moosp
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Simon 10, you are dead right about what to do when hours building. Do we just stooge around straight and level and fly to the next airfield for the $100 sandwich?
That way you learn nothing, and you get no consolidation training. I asked the same question here about 150 hours ago and got some good replies, but not as many suggestions as you might think.
After I got my PPL I went to different schools and asked for further training. Some was excellent, most very good and some a bit iffey. Most started to teach the syllabus of the CPL or extensions to the CPL that exist in certain countries. (mountain, low level, heli lanes, low level nav etc.)
Left on my own, I try to keep to a discipline of exercises, such as in one hour of hours building I will do several circuits, aiming for perfection. (Never got there yet). Then a few slope landings, then a few turns around a point. A couple of pinnacles, a couple of auto's (if the owner/country authority allows this solo) then return to base on a fixed speed, heading and altitude, plus or minus nothing.
I remember a famous musician at the top of his profession being asked how he practiced. He said he did scales. Same with us, if we get the basics near perfect, the rest falls into place.
That way you learn nothing, and you get no consolidation training. I asked the same question here about 150 hours ago and got some good replies, but not as many suggestions as you might think.
After I got my PPL I went to different schools and asked for further training. Some was excellent, most very good and some a bit iffey. Most started to teach the syllabus of the CPL or extensions to the CPL that exist in certain countries. (mountain, low level, heli lanes, low level nav etc.)
Left on my own, I try to keep to a discipline of exercises, such as in one hour of hours building I will do several circuits, aiming for perfection. (Never got there yet). Then a few slope landings, then a few turns around a point. A couple of pinnacles, a couple of auto's (if the owner/country authority allows this solo) then return to base on a fixed speed, heading and altitude, plus or minus nothing.
I remember a famous musician at the top of his profession being asked how he practiced. He said he did scales. Same with us, if we get the basics near perfect, the rest falls into place.
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Pilot woolf
you may actualy be right i never got any further than they share the costs and i foot most of the bill it helped a littel but they always thought yes have some of that as you can fly but when you got down to cost they cringhed usually.
its worth a go but as we all know you end up paying most if not all of the cost in the end.
Sincerely
Bravo 99 (AJB)
you may actualy be right i never got any further than they share the costs and i foot most of the bill it helped a littel but they always thought yes have some of that as you can fly but when you got down to cost they cringhed usually.
its worth a go but as we all know you end up paying most if not all of the cost in the end.
Sincerely
Bravo 99 (AJB)
The Original Whirly
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For those of you who weren't around at the time, I did most of my hourbuilding by flying in California - traffic watch, mountain flying, and seeing new places - then some flying in Russia, dual in MI-2s and MI-8s. There are threads about both of these trips, if you can still find them. I had a wonderful time, learned loads, and it cost me less than tootling off to the next airfield hundreds of times back home. I looked at other places - South Africa looked good, so did Australia, though I couldn't find out about mustering...really fancied trying that. I agree, go and do something different; you may never get the chance again. 
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Well- I would love to receive info on prices for hour building. I need som 90 hours and would like to have it divided upon two periods.
Don't have any problems with sharing the time with an CFI or any other rated pilot - as long as the CAA would accept this towards the 155 hour req.
Would prefer Europe and the US.
So come on - if you are representing any school or FBO, start PM me you offers!
(Please Mr. Moderator, I hope you don't have any problems with me posting this)
Don't have any problems with sharing the time with an CFI or any other rated pilot - as long as the CAA would accept this towards the 155 hour req.
Would prefer Europe and the US.
So come on - if you are representing any school or FBO, start PM me you offers!
(Please Mr. Moderator, I hope you don't have any problems with me posting this)
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same money piston or turbine?
If any pilots working on the 40 hour CC requirement for the instrument rating and/or 150 for commercial want some turbine time, there's a place in Michigan where you can fly a jet ranger at piston rates. Ferry flights, not traffic watch.
e-mail me [email protected] if you want more information.
e-mail me [email protected] if you want more information.
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Hour Building in LA?
I am wondering if anyone out there can provide me with advice in relation to hour building with Commander Chuck in LA. I have read through the threads from past years, and I am wondering if this operation is still up and running. I have sent some e-mails to Commander Chuck, but as yet no replies.
I am trying to find my way towards meeting the minimums to commence an Instructor Rating, and from what I have read so far, the idea of flying in LA may be a worthwhile path to follow.
Thanks
Benjonat
I am trying to find my way towards meeting the minimums to commence an Instructor Rating, and from what I have read so far, the idea of flying in LA may be a worthwhile path to follow.
Thanks
Benjonat
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Their website hasn't been up for a long while, so I'm not sure of their status. However, "Commander Chuck" is NOT a CFI and you are flying a commercial operation. There have been some debate as to how to interpret some aspects of the regulation, but there is no doubt in my mind that this is NOT kosher.
Also, here is some information as to why it is ILLEGAL to "fly for free" concerning ferry trips and other items. If you do something like that (i.e. BoatPix), you better pay and you better do it with a CFI who is providing flight instruction. Thanks to CJ for providing the following example:
Chief Cousnel Opinion
A private pilot, who flew skydivers for free, received a 45 day suspension. The skydivers paid the skydiving club for instruction, and therefore, the FAA and the NTSB found that the flights were for compensation or hire, and that the pilot's ability to log the time can be viewed as compensation. The NTSB specifically rejected the pilot's argument that his free flight time could be excused as "sharing expenses." Administrator v. Rawlins, EA-4583 (1997)
If a pilot gains any economic advantage, not just the receipt of money, from the operation of an aircraft, the FAA may take the position that he is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft for compensation or hire. An example would be the ferrying of aircraft for no charge to build up flight hours.
Also, here is some information as to why it is ILLEGAL to "fly for free" concerning ferry trips and other items. If you do something like that (i.e. BoatPix), you better pay and you better do it with a CFI who is providing flight instruction. Thanks to CJ for providing the following example:
Chief Cousnel Opinion
A private pilot, who flew skydivers for free, received a 45 day suspension. The skydivers paid the skydiving club for instruction, and therefore, the FAA and the NTSB found that the flights were for compensation or hire, and that the pilot's ability to log the time can be viewed as compensation. The NTSB specifically rejected the pilot's argument that his free flight time could be excused as "sharing expenses." Administrator v. Rawlins, EA-4583 (1997)
If a pilot gains any economic advantage, not just the receipt of money, from the operation of an aircraft, the FAA may take the position that he is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft for compensation or hire. An example would be the ferrying of aircraft for no charge to build up flight hours.
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RDR
You may be right.
However, people have been hours/turbine-time building in LA with both Commander Chuck (Fullerton) and the other traffic watch operation (Van Nuys) for many years and I've never known anyone to be prosecuted for doing it.
Many UK pilots have flown with both operators over the years. As far as I know, the UK CAA has always taken a sensible line and has never rejected the hours for the purpose of 'qualify hours' - perhaps because the pilots have done just a few hours rather than as an ongoing unpaid 'job'.
You may be right.
However, people have been hours/turbine-time building in LA with both Commander Chuck (Fullerton) and the other traffic watch operation (Van Nuys) for many years and I've never known anyone to be prosecuted for doing it.
Many UK pilots have flown with both operators over the years. As far as I know, the UK CAA has always taken a sensible line and has never rejected the hours for the purpose of 'qualify hours' - perhaps because the pilots have done just a few hours rather than as an ongoing unpaid 'job'.
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You can fly with a CFII (then no problem for logging hours) in Van Nuys in a Bell 206 or an AS350. You can even fly some simulated instrument time during the traffic watch if you need some more IFR time.
Have a look at: http://www.heliclass.com/
regards
Patrick
Have a look at: http://www.heliclass.com/
regards
Patrick
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When you fly with Commander Chuck and you have your CPL, it isn't an issue. If you only have your PPL and are time-building or transition training, then it probably isn't a good idea because he isn't a CFI. I considered doing it last year, but decided against it for that reason (talked with him on the phone).
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On the other side,
If you pay fly on a Bell 206 which requires no Copilot, with another pilot and just fly around reporting traffic, straight and level, very occasionally land here and there at sea level, not too heavy, well . . . . . . . . . .
There is a chance that SOME people will not even consider those hours as PIC time, I don't want to be pesimistic but its just another point of view.
There is a chance that SOME people will not even consider those hours as PIC time, I don't want to be pesimistic but its just another point of view.