Hours building: Questions, Ideas, Advice, Countries etc
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: LEAX, Spain
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Dave
Only one place to go down here...
Call Luis Rollan at Intercopters +34 607 325 386 (www.intercopters.com)
He's at Cuatro Vientos (Four Winds) airport, Madrid, and tell him Dan Coughlan sent you.
Luis has a couple of R22's and a R44 available, I think. He'll sort you out. He's also the Robinson importer/maintainer, so you should find all you need.
Let me know if you're flying down south; Malaga, Granada, etc, and I'll show you where all the good bars are, too.
Good luck
Dan
Call Luis Rollan at Intercopters +34 607 325 386 (www.intercopters.com)
He's at Cuatro Vientos (Four Winds) airport, Madrid, and tell him Dan Coughlan sent you.
Luis has a couple of R22's and a R44 available, I think. He'll sort you out. He's also the Robinson importer/maintainer, so you should find all you need.
Let me know if you're flying down south; Malaga, Granada, etc, and I'll show you where all the good bars are, too.
Good luck
Dan
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Hour building in Spain
Not sure about the rules re "advertising" on PPrune, but if Luis Rollan can be mentioned, then I would like to suggest Sloane Helicopters SL in Mallorca who have R22s and R44s and all the CAA Approvals. Contact Mark Corbett - +34 971 794132 / +34 639 702411(Mobile). They are a wholly owned subsidiary of Sloane Helicopters in UK.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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building hours
hi ppl,
I have just started my ppl(h) on my way to getting cpl(h). once i have got my ppl(h) is it ok to build all the hours in the us before doing my cpl(h) course in the uk? I am trying to get my cost down as much as possible for obvious reasons.
Many thanks,
bill
I have just started my ppl(h) on my way to getting cpl(h). once i have got my ppl(h) is it ok to build all the hours in the us before doing my cpl(h) course in the uk? I am trying to get my cost down as much as possible for obvious reasons.
Many thanks,
bill
bill:
Unless you've got a rich recently deceased relative, or are leaving the stockbroking profession to go into helicopters, then the US - or Oz - is one of the best places to get value for money., and as long as the hours are P1 on a type you have in your logbook, then it's all kosher.
I did it this way, so did a fair few others who frequent here. The rules have slightly changed though - check "Wannabees" because there's CAA / FAA forms and the like you need before you arrive.
Unless you've got a rich recently deceased relative, or are leaving the stockbroking profession to go into helicopters, then the US - or Oz - is one of the best places to get value for money., and as long as the hours are P1 on a type you have in your logbook, then it's all kosher.
I did it this way, so did a fair few others who frequent here. The rules have slightly changed though - check "Wannabees" because there's CAA / FAA forms and the like you need before you arrive.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
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Wanted Cheap Self Fly Hire R22-Florida or Anywhere!
Can Anyone help me out here please??
I need to build another 100 hours towards my UK Rotary Instructors course as cheap as possible.
Can anyone please give me some suggestions/hints/prices in say Florida or anywhere else that I can buy some time. R22 would probably be the cheapest. Will have my UK CPLH by then with the ink still Wet!
Thanks again.
Brian
I need to build another 100 hours towards my UK Rotary Instructors course as cheap as possible.
Can anyone please give me some suggestions/hints/prices in say Florida or anywhere else that I can buy some time. R22 would probably be the cheapest. Will have my UK CPLH by then with the ink still Wet!
Thanks again.
Brian
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Brian
There is a companey that charges $130 hr (wet) self fly. I am in the UK for 2 weeks on vacation but will post the number when I get back to the office. They advertise in most of the usual places
Brian (also)
There is a companey that charges $130 hr (wet) self fly. I am in the UK for 2 weeks on vacation but will post the number when I get back to the office. They advertise in most of the usual places
Brian (also)
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Brian:
Send me an email, as I have an R-22B that I offer block time in wet ($130.00) or dry ($110.00) for a 100 hour block. Let me know if you are seriously interested. You could reasonably expect to fly off 100 hours in about a month...
Regards,
Patty
[email protected]
Send me an email, as I have an R-22B that I offer block time in wet ($130.00) or dry ($110.00) for a 100 hour block. Let me know if you are seriously interested. You could reasonably expect to fly off 100 hours in about a month...
Regards,
Patty
[email protected]
Join Date: Oct 2003
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R22Sfh
Nervy, Child of the Sky's and In the swamp.
Thanks vry much guys for your help and I will pass on the info to my buddy who will get in touch.
Cheers for now and have a safe one!
Brian
Thanks vry much guys for your help and I will pass on the info to my buddy who will get in touch.
Cheers for now and have a safe one!
Brian
Join Date: Feb 2003
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how do you build heli time?
If most helicopter pilot employers, such as EMS for example, required thousands of helicopter hours, i.e. 3000+ hours...and knowing the cost of each hour in a helicopter...how someone with a CPL(H) and some 100 hours or so of heli time get to 2 or 3 thousands hours?
CFI(H) positions seem to be extremely rare...as for every 30 fixed-wing flight schools there is one heli flight school....
so where di you pull the 3000 hours from to get that job flying a turbine heli with a reasonable pay?
In fixed-wing world, 9 out of 10 aspiring pilots will become CFIs and build anywhere from 1000 to 2000 hours before going for charter/corporate/regional jobs flying turbines...
seems in the heli world is even more hellish
Archer
CFI(H) positions seem to be extremely rare...as for every 30 fixed-wing flight schools there is one heli flight school....
so where di you pull the 3000 hours from to get that job flying a turbine heli with a reasonable pay?
In fixed-wing world, 9 out of 10 aspiring pilots will become CFIs and build anywhere from 1000 to 2000 hours before going for charter/corporate/regional jobs flying turbines...
seems in the heli world is even more hellish
Archer
Of course it's more helllish. The helicopter industry is tiny in comparison to the fixed-wing industry. For an all-civilian pilot who wants to fly helicopters for money, we have fewer and less clearly defined paths to "success." Much of it depends on a combination of luck, timing, and your personal ability to be charming and pursuasive. Throw in dedication, talent, a higher-than-average skill level and a willingness to relocate anywhere/anytime, and you might find the going fairly easy. But even "fairly easy" is a relative and controversial term.
For many of us, if at the beginning of our careers we really sat down and thought about *how* we were going to do it, we never would've even tried. And in a way, if you have to ask, perhaps you shouldn't. Try, that is. If you have that burning passion to fly helicopters for a living, then by God just go do it. Get your CFI, and your double-I and get to work. But know up front that it's a crapshoot. Remember too that 1,000 hours will not come overnight. It won't take one year, either. It'll take two, three or four years. Maybe more!
In our industry, opportunities generally don't fall in your lap. (Actually, they do, but not often enough to count on.) But you have to be in the game. Like I said, if you worry too much you will get discouraged. So take the long view. The really long view.
And network! Go out and actually meet working helicopter pilots. Become friends with them.
I met a young fixed-wing pilot once who desperately (and idiotically) wanted to become me. He sort of latched on to me, pumping me for industry info. He had spunk, and an infinite level of enthusiasm for helicopters. And although we did not live anywhere near each other, we became friends. Once he got his r/w CFI, he was having trouble finding a job. I happened to come across a flight school that taught in airplanes, an R-22 and a Bell 47.
Out of the blue, I wrote to the owner of the school. I did not know whether they had any openings, but since I know this industry it was a fairly safe bet that they either did or would shortly. I introduced and described myself, and respectfully asked the owner that if he was ever in need of an instructor, he consider my young friend. This elicited a positive response, and my friend did go to work for them where he was able to build some really solid experience. This job lead to another job, which lead to... You get the picture.
The bottom line is that there are no easy ways to do it. You cast your lot and roll the dice. Most likely, you'll be stuck for years as a CFI as my friend was (even with my "help"). I wish it were not so. I wish that there was a more encouraging message we could give aspiring helicopter pilots who want this as a career. But unfortunately, that's just the way it is.
Good luck!
For many of us, if at the beginning of our careers we really sat down and thought about *how* we were going to do it, we never would've even tried. And in a way, if you have to ask, perhaps you shouldn't. Try, that is. If you have that burning passion to fly helicopters for a living, then by God just go do it. Get your CFI, and your double-I and get to work. But know up front that it's a crapshoot. Remember too that 1,000 hours will not come overnight. It won't take one year, either. It'll take two, three or four years. Maybe more!
In our industry, opportunities generally don't fall in your lap. (Actually, they do, but not often enough to count on.) But you have to be in the game. Like I said, if you worry too much you will get discouraged. So take the long view. The really long view.
And network! Go out and actually meet working helicopter pilots. Become friends with them.
I met a young fixed-wing pilot once who desperately (and idiotically) wanted to become me. He sort of latched on to me, pumping me for industry info. He had spunk, and an infinite level of enthusiasm for helicopters. And although we did not live anywhere near each other, we became friends. Once he got his r/w CFI, he was having trouble finding a job. I happened to come across a flight school that taught in airplanes, an R-22 and a Bell 47.
Out of the blue, I wrote to the owner of the school. I did not know whether they had any openings, but since I know this industry it was a fairly safe bet that they either did or would shortly. I introduced and described myself, and respectfully asked the owner that if he was ever in need of an instructor, he consider my young friend. This elicited a positive response, and my friend did go to work for them where he was able to build some really solid experience. This job lead to another job, which lead to... You get the picture.
The bottom line is that there are no easy ways to do it. You cast your lot and roll the dice. Most likely, you'll be stuck for years as a CFI as my friend was (even with my "help"). I wish it were not so. I wish that there was a more encouraging message we could give aspiring helicopter pilots who want this as a career. But unfortunately, that's just the way it is.
Good luck!
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Well, for the past 2 years I've been gaining information on fixed-wing career paths, and the rotary wing thing is just a curiosity, perhaps one day an option.
I just find the path for both fixed wing, and more so rotary wing very amazing, discouraging and wrong.
Young people who want to live their lives in the skies...have to put up with immense sums of money for training and only a couple of paths to their dream job.
Becoming an instructor, fixed wing or rotary, seems the only choice, as that's the only way to get hired with a couple hundred hours...
The requirements are out there. Most employers that have decent pay checks require thousands of hours of flight time, whether fixed or rotary.
The only employers that will hire at a couple of hundred hours are flight schools.
So the only path seems, pay $$$ to train, bust your but, get hired as a CFI, whether you like it or not, live miserably for several years trying to build time and working nearly for free to finally end up to where you want to be (maybe), when you are old, in debt, and lived miserably for a lot of precious, irrecuperable years...
seems best thing to do is find a non-flying job, make some money, but an R22 or a Piper, build time over the years...and then apply for jobs once you have those thousands of hours...
I just find the path for both fixed wing, and more so rotary wing very amazing, discouraging and wrong.
Young people who want to live their lives in the skies...have to put up with immense sums of money for training and only a couple of paths to their dream job.
Becoming an instructor, fixed wing or rotary, seems the only choice, as that's the only way to get hired with a couple hundred hours...
The requirements are out there. Most employers that have decent pay checks require thousands of hours of flight time, whether fixed or rotary.
The only employers that will hire at a couple of hundred hours are flight schools.
So the only path seems, pay $$$ to train, bust your but, get hired as a CFI, whether you like it or not, live miserably for several years trying to build time and working nearly for free to finally end up to where you want to be (maybe), when you are old, in debt, and lived miserably for a lot of precious, irrecuperable years...
seems best thing to do is find a non-flying job, make some money, but an R22 or a Piper, build time over the years...and then apply for jobs once you have those thousands of hours...
Join Date: Dec 2001
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The best and cheapest way because of the comments above, is to join the military and get paid to learn. Yes, you do require a certain education level and age bracket but you do get top training and experience for your after life and paid well to get it.
If it doesn't suit, then you have to do what is said above.
If it doesn't suit, then you have to do what is said above.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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I agree with all the above comments.
The industry is still able to find pilots with the required experience and hours because there are sufficient ex-mil guys who are still of a working age.
This has been made worse by the airlines laying off pilots over the past couple of years, some of whom were previously flying the rigs, so these chaps have "become available" to the rotary market once more.
Also, the North Sea is a diminished market, reducing the demand for pilots. It is this that has driven the UK market for some years.
Because of the prevailing short-term profit mentality, rotary employers have been obliged and able to reduce their ab-initio training input to vitually nil and have had no reason to take on low-timers.
However, certainly in the UK market, the pilot population is ageing so this cannot continue indefinitely.
Although my comments are really in context of the UK, I think this is a world trend.
The industry is still able to find pilots with the required experience and hours because there are sufficient ex-mil guys who are still of a working age.
This has been made worse by the airlines laying off pilots over the past couple of years, some of whom were previously flying the rigs, so these chaps have "become available" to the rotary market once more.
Also, the North Sea is a diminished market, reducing the demand for pilots. It is this that has driven the UK market for some years.
Because of the prevailing short-term profit mentality, rotary employers have been obliged and able to reduce their ab-initio training input to vitually nil and have had no reason to take on low-timers.
However, certainly in the UK market, the pilot population is ageing so this cannot continue indefinitely.
Although my comments are really in context of the UK, I think this is a world trend.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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so what are the biggest helicopter markets?
I read that EMS is the "majors" of helicopters...
I also see that Fire, Law Enforcement, and News/Traffic watch are pretty big too...
off shore rig-related jobs are popular too it seems.
what about corporate? private helicopter oweners, either businesses or individuals?
I read that EMS is the "majors" of helicopters...
I also see that Fire, Law Enforcement, and News/Traffic watch are pretty big too...
off shore rig-related jobs are popular too it seems.
what about corporate? private helicopter oweners, either businesses or individuals?
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Another way to look at it is that with a bare commercial licence you don't have the skills, ability or experience to actually do many of the jobs available in the aviation industry.
Hours flown is a quantitive measure of your experience and it is all well and good to dream about glamour jobs and wish they were available straight up but the bottom line is that someone without the experience would find themselves in a world of trouble from day one in almost all helicopter operations. From what I have seen and experienced it takes a lot of time, caution, nurturing and a bit of luck to get a pilot to an acceptable commercial level once they have started with their first employer.
It is a good idea to make sure that your bucket of experience is quite full before your bucket of luck is empty.
If you a looking to stay alive and have a long and prosperous aviation career you need to deal with the fact that when you first get that commercial licence you don't know sh1t !!. I can't think of too many worthwhile careers in any industry where you get to start at the top.
Hours flown is a quantitive measure of your experience and it is all well and good to dream about glamour jobs and wish they were available straight up but the bottom line is that someone without the experience would find themselves in a world of trouble from day one in almost all helicopter operations. From what I have seen and experienced it takes a lot of time, caution, nurturing and a bit of luck to get a pilot to an acceptable commercial level once they have started with their first employer.
It is a good idea to make sure that your bucket of experience is quite full before your bucket of luck is empty.
If you a looking to stay alive and have a long and prosperous aviation career you need to deal with the fact that when you first get that commercial licence you don't know sh1t !!. I can't think of too many worthwhile careers in any industry where you get to start at the top.
Join Date: Oct 2003
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I think offshore is the largest segment - there are close to 1000 helicopters operating in the Gulf of Mexico. EMS is close to that size, perhaps, but it's spread out.
The way most of us built time is with the military. We're starting to see more civilian-only pilots, but they're still the vast minority. It costs so much to get a helicopter commercial license, and then get the required time, that it's just not economically viable, given the low pay involved. Helicopter pilots, on average, make less than fixed-wing pilots.
Absolutely the only reason I'm flying helicopters is the free training and flight time I got from my rich uncle, Sam. All I had to give in return was several years of being a target for people who didn't like U.S. military helicopters.
The way most of us built time is with the military. We're starting to see more civilian-only pilots, but they're still the vast minority. It costs so much to get a helicopter commercial license, and then get the required time, that it's just not economically viable, given the low pay involved. Helicopter pilots, on average, make less than fixed-wing pilots.
Absolutely the only reason I'm flying helicopters is the free training and flight time I got from my rich uncle, Sam. All I had to give in return was several years of being a target for people who didn't like U.S. military helicopters.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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I can't see why anybody would have a problem with that type of flying, it is exposure to real life commercial work, I suppose a fair bit would be just straight and level, and OGE hovering but isn't most flying.
Operators who are willing to employ pipe line patrolers but have a grudge against Traffic watch pilots need there head examined, they are legit hours as far as I know, for most people it is the only realistic way to build turbine time, would you sooner let someone loose with 50 hours on a 206 and commercial work or somebody with just a type rating and 5 or 6 hours.
Good topic, will be interested to see the response, would also be interested as to why this practice is not more widespread.
Operators who are willing to employ pipe line patrolers but have a grudge against Traffic watch pilots need there head examined, they are legit hours as far as I know, for most people it is the only realistic way to build turbine time, would you sooner let someone loose with 50 hours on a 206 and commercial work or somebody with just a type rating and 5 or 6 hours.
Good topic, will be interested to see the response, would also be interested as to why this practice is not more widespread.
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" .....would also be interested as to why this practice is not more widespread."
The two places I know where you can do it (both in LA) are always heavily booked. You either have to book a few months in advance or take a chance on a short notice cancellation.
The two places I know where you can do it (both in LA) are always heavily booked. You either have to book a few months in advance or take a chance on a short notice cancellation.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Quindici,
The fact that there is a CFI in one of the driving seats does not end the "legal" issues. This has been discussed at length in previous threads, but as far as some regulators are concerned, it is possible/probable that they would not consider such flying to represent loggable P1 time for the person buying flight time - I am talking mainly here about the good old UK CAA and (these days) their interpretation of JAR-FCL and the ANO. Perhaps you are not particularly keen to acquire the experience as P1 time, in which case there may be no problem?
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it has no value - it could be useful experience - but you need to be quite clear what you are hoping to achieve from it.
Lots have done it, and used it as a useful way of leaping one of the (many) hurdles to progress in this crazy game.
Probably the best thing to do is talk to the people who you are thinking fo getting work from when you have acquired those precious hours.
The fact that there is a CFI in one of the driving seats does not end the "legal" issues. This has been discussed at length in previous threads, but as far as some regulators are concerned, it is possible/probable that they would not consider such flying to represent loggable P1 time for the person buying flight time - I am talking mainly here about the good old UK CAA and (these days) their interpretation of JAR-FCL and the ANO. Perhaps you are not particularly keen to acquire the experience as P1 time, in which case there may be no problem?
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it has no value - it could be useful experience - but you need to be quite clear what you are hoping to achieve from it.
Lots have done it, and used it as a useful way of leaping one of the (many) hurdles to progress in this crazy game.
Probably the best thing to do is talk to the people who you are thinking fo getting work from when you have acquired those precious hours.