Generation CAE MPL easyJet
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As a former ATPL theory instructor let me clarify the EASA ATPL exams.
1. The level is probably more like old "O" level standard - ask your parents.
2. You do not need to be academic but being able to do maths (sometimes mentally) is a must. Can you transpose & cross-multiply basic formula (distance speed time) and know some basic physics gas laws?
3. All schools study the same EASA syllabus but to mis-quote Eric Morecambe not necessarily in the same order (13 exams these days usually spread over 3 modules).
4. You need to think of them as an entrance exam to becoming a commercial pilot, it's a hoop you have to jump through.
5. In my & many other instructors views some of the syllabus is a farce most of which you will never use again. Why a pilot needs to know the constant of the cone of a Lamberts chart is my favourite useless bit of information.
6. It is the volume of high-class rubbish you have to learn in the time (8 months) that is the killer.
7. You shall have to put your social life on hold for the period as you will need 110% motivation & focus with no distractions.
8. Most students will spend another 3 hours+ study in the evening after the normal 6 hour school day.
9. Even with the best ground school tuition you are unlikely to pass the exams without the aid of question banks (QBs).
10. Why QBs - unfortunately the standard of the questions leaves a lot to be desired, the wording & meaning then the possible 2 correct answers but 1 is better than the other.
11. Certainly with the aid of QBs it is perfectly possible to average 85% across all subjects. Instructed several courses where the lowest average was in excess of 90% across.
I shouldn't concern yourself in what the ATPL syllabus is that's the schools problem. As suggested get a class 1 medical along with some PPL flying lessons & start your PPL theory.
If your parents are hell bent on sending you integrated ask them this :-
Most integrated ATOs require significant payments before you even start the course, the ground school would come first & even with accommodation & equipment would cost around £12k. Why do they want more of your money when they don't yet need it? If you still insist on this approach pay with a CREDIT card (not debit).
One last thought what does CAA stand for - Cash Again & Again.
If needed you can PM me.
1. The level is probably more like old "O" level standard - ask your parents.
2. You do not need to be academic but being able to do maths (sometimes mentally) is a must. Can you transpose & cross-multiply basic formula (distance speed time) and know some basic physics gas laws?
3. All schools study the same EASA syllabus but to mis-quote Eric Morecambe not necessarily in the same order (13 exams these days usually spread over 3 modules).
4. You need to think of them as an entrance exam to becoming a commercial pilot, it's a hoop you have to jump through.
5. In my & many other instructors views some of the syllabus is a farce most of which you will never use again. Why a pilot needs to know the constant of the cone of a Lamberts chart is my favourite useless bit of information.
6. It is the volume of high-class rubbish you have to learn in the time (8 months) that is the killer.
7. You shall have to put your social life on hold for the period as you will need 110% motivation & focus with no distractions.
8. Most students will spend another 3 hours+ study in the evening after the normal 6 hour school day.
9. Even with the best ground school tuition you are unlikely to pass the exams without the aid of question banks (QBs).
10. Why QBs - unfortunately the standard of the questions leaves a lot to be desired, the wording & meaning then the possible 2 correct answers but 1 is better than the other.
11. Certainly with the aid of QBs it is perfectly possible to average 85% across all subjects. Instructed several courses where the lowest average was in excess of 90% across.
I shouldn't concern yourself in what the ATPL syllabus is that's the schools problem. As suggested get a class 1 medical along with some PPL flying lessons & start your PPL theory.
If your parents are hell bent on sending you integrated ask them this :-
Most integrated ATOs require significant payments before you even start the course, the ground school would come first & even with accommodation & equipment would cost around £12k. Why do they want more of your money when they don't yet need it? If you still insist on this approach pay with a CREDIT card (not debit).
One last thought what does CAA stand for - Cash Again & Again.
If needed you can PM me.
And now I'm confused.
Doing a PPL (It currently costs £170 locally p/h)
- For the flight hours alone, I'll assume it takes around 50 hours. 50 hours * 170 /hr = £8500
- The theory exams costs £30 per exam, with 9 exams that's £270 for the exams
- I don't have prices for examiner, I'll edit this when they get back to me.
PPL: £8770 + examiner fees, Duration: 1 month, Flight hours: 50
Ground School
- I cannot do distance learning I'm afraid.
- Cost: £5900
Cost: £5900, Duration: 6 months
MEP:
- 6 hour instruction time, £3400 for instructor time
- Theory exam: £30 + 2-3 hours of examiner time: £30 + £1650: £1680
MEP: £5080, Duration: 1 week, Flight hours: 9
CBIR (ME):
- £12,800 quoted
- £150 license issue fee + £40 theory test + £1000 Skill test + £650 landing fees
- Accomodation £1680
CBIR: £14,490, Duration: 6-8 weeks, Flight hours: 15
UPRT:
- £1700 for course
- Accomodation: £150
UPRT: £1850, Duration: 1 week, Flight hours: 3
Hour building:
- I'll need approximately 100 hours to reach the 175 hour minimum to start CPL
- Potentially I could do this in the US, I've seen on forums here that it can be cheaper due to the better weather.
- Found a site which hires for $120/hour
- Total cost for building $120 x 100 hours = $12,000 (at time of writing approximately £9,600)
- Excl license conversion etc for US
Hour building, Cost: £9,600 Duration: (I'm not sure how many hours I can fly per day, I'll say 2 months?)
CPL:
- £7500 for the sim time, and instruction
- Accomodation is £850
CPL: £8350, Duration: 1 month
MCC:
- £6,000 for the course
MCC: £6,000, Duration: 3 weeks
Total Cost: £54,040, Duration: under a year hopefully, plus some examiner fees, CRP5, protractor, headset. MEP and CBIR pre-CPL to save a bit of money building hours.
- For the flight hours alone, I'll assume it takes around 50 hours. 50 hours * 170 /hr = £8500
- The theory exams costs £30 per exam, with 9 exams that's £270 for the exams
- I don't have prices for examiner, I'll edit this when they get back to me.
PPL: £8770 + examiner fees, Duration: 1 month, Flight hours: 50
Ground School
- I cannot do distance learning I'm afraid.
- Cost: £5900
Cost: £5900, Duration: 6 months
MEP:
- 6 hour instruction time, £3400 for instructor time
- Theory exam: £30 + 2-3 hours of examiner time: £30 + £1650: £1680
MEP: £5080, Duration: 1 week, Flight hours: 9
CBIR (ME):
- £12,800 quoted
- £150 license issue fee + £40 theory test + £1000 Skill test + £650 landing fees
- Accomodation £1680
CBIR: £14,490, Duration: 6-8 weeks, Flight hours: 15
UPRT:
- £1700 for course
- Accomodation: £150
UPRT: £1850, Duration: 1 week, Flight hours: 3
Hour building:
- I'll need approximately 100 hours to reach the 175 hour minimum to start CPL
- Potentially I could do this in the US, I've seen on forums here that it can be cheaper due to the better weather.
- Found a site which hires for $120/hour
- Total cost for building $120 x 100 hours = $12,000 (at time of writing approximately £9,600)
- Excl license conversion etc for US
Hour building, Cost: £9,600 Duration: (I'm not sure how many hours I can fly per day, I'll say 2 months?)
CPL:
- £7500 for the sim time, and instruction
- Accomodation is £850
CPL: £8350, Duration: 1 month
MCC:
- £6,000 for the course
MCC: £6,000, Duration: 3 weeks
Total Cost: £54,040, Duration: under a year hopefully, plus some examiner fees, CRP5, protractor, headset. MEP and CBIR pre-CPL to save a bit of money building hours.
2) You cannot do MEP directly after PPL, you'll need at least 70 hours PIC
3) The whole point of CBIR is to do it single engine to save money.
4) Your hour building will need to be spilt into at least 3 blocks between modules
5) A single engine CPL should be half what you're quoted.
A good first effort but that's nowhere near optimum. Which is strange because I'm pretty sure I told you in post #2 of your other thread where to look!
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I would tread very carefully. Current feedback is that CAE do not have the capacity to train the cadets that they have recruited and because of the delays the job vacancies originally allocated for MPL's have been recruited for externally and filled with white tails leaving question marks over where the MPL cadet's will go.
Here's a few extracts from the different threads:
- The originally advertised 18 month course is taking anywhere from 2.5-3 years
- Cadet's in Phoenix were returned to the UK after only several flights and informed of a six month delay
- Cadet's in ground school have all been informed of significant delays due to lack of aircraft/instructors
- 150 MPL allocated vacancies have been filled with white tails
- Treatment of cadet's is by CAE is very poor
- Recruitment for the course has continued as normal which means hundreds of cadets are in ground school with no availability for flight training on completion of ATPL's
No employment is guaranteed
Here's a few extracts from the different threads:
- The originally advertised 18 month course is taking anywhere from 2.5-3 years
- Cadet's in Phoenix were returned to the UK after only several flights and informed of a six month delay
- Cadet's in ground school have all been informed of significant delays due to lack of aircraft/instructors
- 150 MPL allocated vacancies have been filled with white tails
- Treatment of cadet's is by CAE is very poor
- Recruitment for the course has continued as normal which means hundreds of cadets are in ground school with no availability for flight training on completion of ATPL's
No employment is guaranteed
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The airline will need the numbers whether the training providers can deliver tagged students or not. There’s no ‘MPL’ space waiting for you, it’s merely a training pipeline that the ATO is delivering that should satisfy a considerable number of their requirement, and if it can’t, they’ll look elsewhere. I doubt the airlines would be too concerned.
Be wary with the MPL that only allows you to fly for one operator. You get nothing to show on your license until the base training is completed. Many people learnt that the hard way only a couple years ago.
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It means nothing. The contracts would have stated similar in 2020 when they outright revoked the conditional offer of employment for hundreds of cadets in the pandemic.
The airline will need the numbers whether the training providers can deliver tagged students or not. There’s no ‘MPL’ space waiting for you, it’s merely a training pipeline that the ATO is delivering that should satisfy a considerable number of their requirement, and if it can’t, they’ll look elsewhere. I doubt the airlines would be too concerned.
Be wary with the MPL that only allows you to fly for one operator. You get nothing to show on your license until the base training is completed. Many people learnt that the hard way only a couple years ago.
The airline will need the numbers whether the training providers can deliver tagged students or not. There’s no ‘MPL’ space waiting for you, it’s merely a training pipeline that the ATO is delivering that should satisfy a considerable number of their requirement, and if it can’t, they’ll look elsewhere. I doubt the airlines would be too concerned.
Be wary with the MPL that only allows you to fly for one operator. You get nothing to show on your license until the base training is completed. Many people learnt that the hard way only a couple years ago.
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Pretty sure that didn't happen when offers were revoked and instead they were charged a huge sum for an ATPL conversion if they wanted any of the money they'd previously spent to actually mean anything
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Guys, I want to add something, the easyJet MPL is a great program and the easyJet team is always looking behind us and they are fantastic and as we all know in 2020 the pilots who continued with the MPL course was the best and cheapest decision for them as all the people that switched to ATPL paid a bigger sum just at the end to be rehired by easyJet. The problem here is CAE, as they are not able to deliver the program for the students thus the students and easyJet being the ones suffering the consequences of CAE incompetences. If easyJet opens the MPL with another ATO that is able to deliver the program it would be the best program in EU. The problem here is not easyJet or the MPL its CAE either MPL or ATPL stufents license not being able to train them as they took a big number of students without research to see if they have the capabilities to train us and deliver us to easyjet. and delays with no or minimal compensation.
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it’s written in the contract. Even if you don’t reach their requirements during the course and they resign your contract they have to refund you.
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Guys, I want to add something, the easyJet MPL is a great program and the easyJet team is always looking behind us and they are fantastic and as we all know in 2020 the pilots who continued with the MPL course was the best and cheapest decision for them as all the people that switched to ATPL paid a bigger sum just at the end to be rehired by easyJet. The problem here is CAE, as they are not able to deliver the program for the students thus the students and easyJet being the ones suffering the consequences of CAE incompetences. If easyJet opens the MPL with another ATO that is able to deliver the program it would be the best program in EU. The problem here is not easyJet or the MPL its CAE either MPL or ATPL stufents license not being able to train them as they took a big number of students without research to see if they have the capabilities to train us and deliver us to easyjet. and delays with no or minimal compensation.
Some lost money or worse had nothing to show for it after already spending large amounts and weren’t re-approached for a job.
If I remember correctly Cityflyer told their cadets to finish getting a license (no matter which school) MPL or ATPL, and when the time comes, they will be offered employment, they just couldn’t put a date on it. A very fair and reasonable solution given this situation back then.
The program gives you a conditional job offer. Emphasis on conditional, and nothing more. It can be taken away. Please don’t solely listen to ATO sales teams telling you what you want to hear
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No, they are not looking out for you. If they were then why did they let all of the cadets go in 2020 without any initial opportunity of a hold pool? Yes those that took a gamble and opted for a whitetail MPL got employed after things began to recover. Not sure how you think that’s the best decision in a pandemic when you need an airline to provide base training to even have anything written on your license?
Some lost money or worse had nothing to show for it after already spending large amounts and weren’t re-approached for a job.
If I remember correctly Cityflyer told their cadets to finish getting a license (no matter which school) MPL or ATPL, and when the time comes, they will be offered employment, they just couldn’t put a date on it. A very fair and reasonable solution given this situation back then.
The program gives you a conditional job offer. Emphasis on conditional, and nothing more. It can be taken away. Please don’t solely listen to ATO sales teams telling you what you want to hear
Some lost money or worse had nothing to show for it after already spending large amounts and weren’t re-approached for a job.
If I remember correctly Cityflyer told their cadets to finish getting a license (no matter which school) MPL or ATPL, and when the time comes, they will be offered employment, they just couldn’t put a date on it. A very fair and reasonable solution given this situation back then.
The program gives you a conditional job offer. Emphasis on conditional, and nothing more. It can be taken away. Please don’t solely listen to ATO sales teams telling you what you want to hear
I agree that the job offer is CONDITIONAL, but give me one person who graduated the EZY MPL course with an acceptable training record and is now not employed by easyJet.
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No, they are not looking out for you. If they were then why did they let all of the cadets go in 2020 without any initial opportunity of a hold pool? Yes those that took a gamble and opted for a whitetail MPL got employed after things began to recover. Not sure how you think that’s the best decision in a pandemic when you need an airline to provide base training to even have anything written on your license?
Some lost money or worse had nothing to show for it after already spending large amounts and weren’t re-approached for a job.
If I remember correctly Cityflyer told their cadets to finish getting a license (no matter which school) MPL or ATPL, and when the time comes, they will be offered employment, they just couldn’t put a date on it. A very fair and reasonable solution given this situation back then.
The program gives you a conditional job offer. Emphasis on conditional, and nothing more. It can be taken away. Please don’t solely listen to ATO sales teams telling you what you want to hear
Some lost money or worse had nothing to show for it after already spending large amounts and weren’t re-approached for a job.
If I remember correctly Cityflyer told their cadets to finish getting a license (no matter which school) MPL or ATPL, and when the time comes, they will be offered employment, they just couldn’t put a date on it. A very fair and reasonable solution given this situation back then.
The program gives you a conditional job offer. Emphasis on conditional, and nothing more. It can be taken away. Please don’t solely listen to ATO sales teams telling you what you want to hear
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I think you forgot that even ATPL students suffered like the MPL it was not a matter of license it was a matter of no job opportunities anyway no matter what the license is. If you switched to ATPL back in 2020 you would have paid 50K more for absolutely nothing.
I agree that the job offer is CONDITIONAL, but give me one person who graduated the EZY MPL course with an acceptable training record and is now not employed by easyJet.
I agree that the job offer is CONDITIONAL, but give me one person who graduated the EZY MPL course with an acceptable training record and is now not employed by easyJet.
Some MPL students approached other A320 operators asking if employment was an option when things recovered and they were swiftly turned away. So it was far more limiting..
Yes, those that continued the program as whitetail are hopefully all at the airline. But many who had to take the decision to switch were not able to afford the astronomical fees that were asked for by multiple schools.
It absolutely would not have been “a wasted 50k” if you’re faced in a situation where your license (or lack of as you have no base training provider!) is unrecognised by other airlines. Continuing whitetail MPL, which wasn’t even a recognised term by the licensing authority pre-covid, was a financial gamble that one airline would survive the pandemic and recover to an extent where they recontacted those cadets that were dropped.
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I understand that everyone in the industry faced the issue of no employment opportunities. But with an ATPL you would be employable when the market recovers. No other airline would accept a zero hours MPL holder tied to a different operator. That is why students had little option but to switch to an ATPL when in possession of a letter revoking their job offer with no initial opportunity of a hold pool.
Some MPL students approached other A320 operators asking if employment was an option when things recovered and they were swiftly turned away. So it was far more limiting..
Yes, those that continued the program as whitetail are hopefully all at the airline. But many who had to take the decision to switch were not able to afford the astronomical fees that were asked for by multiple schools.
It absolutely would not have been “a wasted 50k” if you’re faced in a situation where your license (or lack of as you have no base training provider!) is unrecognised by other airlines. Continuing whitetail MPL, which wasn’t even a recognised term by the licensing authority pre-covid, was a financial gamble that one airline would survive the pandemic and recover to an extent where they recontacted those cadets that were dropped.
Some MPL students approached other A320 operators asking if employment was an option when things recovered and they were swiftly turned away. So it was far more limiting..
Yes, those that continued the program as whitetail are hopefully all at the airline. But many who had to take the decision to switch were not able to afford the astronomical fees that were asked for by multiple schools.
It absolutely would not have been “a wasted 50k” if you’re faced in a situation where your license (or lack of as you have no base training provider!) is unrecognised by other airlines. Continuing whitetail MPL, which wasn’t even a recognised term by the licensing authority pre-covid, was a financial gamble that one airline would survive the pandemic and recover to an extent where they recontacted those cadets that were dropped.
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Looking for an update on the CAE MPL easyJet situation as a follow on - regarding the job prospect concerning the Covid issues.
Sort of a seperate thread to my modular pursuit - but I'm looking at Generation easyJet's MPL, and I've heard some bad experiences. From what I've heard, the letters of employment were revoked by easyJet and a hold pool was created months later. As far as I've been told the MPLs that stuck with EZY have been hired/about to be hired, but I want to know the situation now, if there are any current EZY MPL students or past MPL students that can advise me on the current situation? Are the MPL students advised on how long they have before starting with EZY at the tail of the training
Understand where I'm coming from because my parents prioritise job security with course price, and I don't want to have wasted £100k of my parent's money with a nearly useless license!
I've been looking at fATPL modular routes (see my other posts!) but I want something which "guarantees" (variable) employment before I commit to any payment.
p.s I did see a post mentioning rumor of EZY having "overhired" and they're in trouble, anyone got insight on this?
Sort of a seperate thread to my modular pursuit - but I'm looking at Generation easyJet's MPL, and I've heard some bad experiences. From what I've heard, the letters of employment were revoked by easyJet and a hold pool was created months later. As far as I've been told the MPLs that stuck with EZY have been hired/about to be hired, but I want to know the situation now, if there are any current EZY MPL students or past MPL students that can advise me on the current situation? Are the MPL students advised on how long they have before starting with EZY at the tail of the training
Understand where I'm coming from because my parents prioritise job security with course price, and I don't want to have wasted £100k of my parent's money with a nearly useless license!
I've been looking at fATPL modular routes (see my other posts!) but I want something which "guarantees" (variable) employment before I commit to any payment.
p.s I did see a post mentioning rumor of EZY having "overhired" and they're in trouble, anyone got insight on this?
Just a few things:
- The conditional letters of employment have not been revoked by easyJet.
- A 'hold pool' was created in Phoenix, whereby all cadets they can't deal with immediately were sent home, to return at a later date.
- CAE have been taking on too many cadets. Having realised this they've prioritised MPL cadets over whitetails in Phoenix.
- easyJet have had to look elsewhere for their pilot recruitment, which is unlikely to affect current MPL cadets but it may have an impact on future classes if they decide they don't need them all.
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Just a few things:
- The conditional letters of employment have not been revoked by easyJet.
- A 'hold pool' was created in Phoenix, whereby all cadets they can't deal with immediately were sent home, to return at a later date.
- CAE have been taking on too many cadets. Having realised this they've prioritised MPL cadets over whitetails in Phoenix.
- easyJet have had to look elsewhere for their pilot recruitment, which is unlikely to affect current MPL cadets but it may have an impact on future classes if they decide they don't need them all.
- The conditional letters of employment have not been revoked by easyJet.
- A 'hold pool' was created in Phoenix, whereby all cadets they can't deal with immediately were sent home, to return at a later date.
- CAE have been taking on too many cadets. Having realised this they've prioritised MPL cadets over whitetails in Phoenix.
- easyJet have had to look elsewhere for their pilot recruitment, which is unlikely to affect current MPL cadets but it may have an impact on future classes if they decide they don't need them all.
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Thank you guys.
I'm going to present my findings from you guys to my parents and see what they think. Honestly they were dead set on paying for integrated but I can sit down with them.
Rather a separate question not related to integrated vs modular, but for the 5 integrated schools:
While flying is a vocational course, do you guys know the sort of transition from A Level workload to Ground School workload? I've heard it's not rather the technicality of the content but the sheer volume of it. I think of myself as academically sound, and have the ace of predicted grades for A Levels. Does A Level results have some direct correlation with ground school results?
Reason I'm asking is because I'm keen to get onto the BA Whitetail scheme if I was to go integrated. I suppose it's subjective, but if I could just ask, how many people achieve an average of 85% or above?
First thing's first, I'm going to go ahead and book a trial flight.
I'm going to present my findings from you guys to my parents and see what they think. Honestly they were dead set on paying for integrated but I can sit down with them.
Rather a separate question not related to integrated vs modular, but for the 5 integrated schools:
While flying is a vocational course, do you guys know the sort of transition from A Level workload to Ground School workload? I've heard it's not rather the technicality of the content but the sheer volume of it. I think of myself as academically sound, and have the ace of predicted grades for A Levels. Does A Level results have some direct correlation with ground school results?
Reason I'm asking is because I'm keen to get onto the BA Whitetail scheme if I was to go integrated. I suppose it's subjective, but if I could just ask, how many people achieve an average of 85% or above?
First thing's first, I'm going to go ahead and book a trial flight.
Save yourself some money, get a PPL and hour building as cheap as you can find it, then go modular with a well known ATO with good airline links
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Given the significant financial investment of the course, whether you chose to pursue it or not, I believe you need facts to make an informed decision. Beware of the below.
This is not true. Students are liable for their training costs regardless of an offer or not in accordance with the contract. There is no refunds.
This is note true. You are liable for all costs up to the point of termination and as you pay in advance, you will lose the money for the entire phase even if you fail on day 1. There is no refunds.
I suggest you read and re-read your contract.
I've no problem with you gambling your money, but please don't gamble other people's with misinformation.
I’m about to start the course in Feb. I wrote a letter to te recruitment department and they told me that students who have been offered a spot will be hired as the conditions of the letter of employment states. Btw he even told me that he’s not going to tell me how this situation will affect future intakes in the course.
I've no problem with you gambling your money, but please don't gamble other people's with misinformation.
Last edited by Pilot.Mark; 7th Dec 2023 at 19:57.
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Given the significant financial investment of the course, whether you chose to pursue it or not, I believe you need facts to make an informed decision. Beware of the below.
This is not true. Stop spreading mis-information. Absolutely nowhere is this stated. Students are liable for their training costs regardless of an offer or not in accordance with the contract. There is no refunds.
This is note true. You are liable for all costs up to the point of termination and as you pay in advance, you will lose the money for the entire phase even if you fail on day 1. There is no refunds.
I suggest you read and re-read your contract. I'm absolutely astounded you've come on this thread and spread the level of misinformation you have.
No doubt you're sourcing the funds from bank of Mum and Dad given the level of naviety. I've no problem with you gambling your parents money, but don't gamble other people's.
This is not true. Stop spreading mis-information. Absolutely nowhere is this stated. Students are liable for their training costs regardless of an offer or not in accordance with the contract. There is no refunds.
This is note true. You are liable for all costs up to the point of termination and as you pay in advance, you will lose the money for the entire phase even if you fail on day 1. There is no refunds.
I suggest you read and re-read your contract. I'm absolutely astounded you've come on this thread and spread the level of misinformation you have.
No doubt you're sourcing the funds from bank of Mum and Dad given the level of naviety. I've no problem with you gambling your parents money, but don't gamble other people's.
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