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Generation CAE MPL easyJet

Old 16th Nov 2023, 18:38
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Generation CAE MPL easyJet

Looking for an update on the CAE MPL easyJet situation as a follow on - regarding the job prospect concerning the Covid issues.

Sort of a seperate thread to my modular pursuit - but I'm looking at Generation easyJet's MPL, and I've heard some bad experiences. From what I've heard, the letters of employment were revoked by easyJet and a hold pool was created months later. As far as I've been told the MPLs that stuck with EZY have been hired/about to be hired, but I want to know the situation now, if there are any current EZY MPL students or past MPL students that can advise me on the current situation? Are the MPL students advised on how long they have before starting with EZY at the tail of the training

Understand where I'm coming from because my parents prioritise job security with course price, and I don't want to have wasted 100k of my parent's money with a nearly useless license!

I've been looking at fATPL modular routes (see my other posts!) but I want something which "guarantees" (variable) employment before I commit to any payment.

p.s I did see a post mentioning rumor of EZY having "overhired" and they're in trouble, anyone got insight on this?
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 07:20
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I would tread very carefully. Current feedback is that CAE do not have the capacity to train the cadets that they have recruited and because of the delays the job vacancies originally allocated for MPL's have been recruited for externally and filled with white tails leaving question marks over where the MPL cadet's will go.

Here's a few extracts from the different threads:
- The originally advertised 18 month course is taking anywhere from 2.5-3 years
- Cadet's in Phoenix were returned to the UK after only several flights and informed of a six month delay
- Cadet's in ground school have all been informed of significant delays due to lack of aircraft/instructors
- 150 MPL allocated vacancies have been filled with white tails
- Treatment of cadet's is by CAE is very poor
- Recruitment for the course has continued as normal which means hundreds of cadets are in ground school with no availability for flight training on completion of ATPL's

No employment is guaranteed
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 17:44
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avoid this route, atleast for now.
CAE having big delays and they messed up big time.
Students in ground school begging CAE for some communication abt the extent of the delay with only useless replys. ppl in phoenix being forcefully sent back home by invoking their visas.
wait few months before deciding to apply, not looking like a good option at the time being
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Old 18th Nov 2023, 13:18
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Originally Posted by bitcoin
Looking for an update on the CAE MPL easyJet situation as a follow on - regarding the job prospect concerning the Covid issues.

Sort of a seperate thread to my modular pursuit - but I'm looking at Generation easyJet's MPL, and I've heard some bad experiences. From what I've heard, the letters of employment were revoked by easyJet and a hold pool was created months later. As far as I've been told the MPLs that stuck with EZY have been hired/about to be hired, but I want to know the situation now, if there are any current EZY MPL students or past MPL students that can advise me on the current situation? Are the MPL students advised on how long they have before starting with EZY at the tail of the training

Understand where I'm coming from because my parents prioritise job security with course price, and I don't want to have wasted 100k of my parent's money with a nearly useless license!

I've been looking at fATPL modular routes (see my other posts!) but I want something which "guarantees" (variable) employment before I commit to any payment.

p.s I did see a post mentioning rumor of EZY having "overhired" and they're in trouble, anyone got insight on this?
Apart from all the marketing nonsense, I doubt there's any course which actually guarantees a job at the end. Although the PR and cadets will make you think so! As far as I'm aware, there's a job interview at the end of your training to see wether you actually get the job. So, there's a path, but no promises. Unless that's all changed and i'm really out of touch. Just tread carefully and avoid MPL courses. Any downturn in the industry or your MPL airline going bust, then you're 100K down the drain and cannot even fly a mere Cessna 152 as you don't have a worthy licence. Monarch, Flybe, Thomas Cook, Aer Lingus (dropped MPLs during covid). History will repeat itself, just a matter of when!
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Old 18th Nov 2023, 13:20
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cae mapl

Originally Posted by Pilot.Mark
I would tread very carefully. Current feedback is that CAE do not have the capacity to train the cadets that they have recruited and because of the delays the job vacancies originally allocated for MPL's have been recruited for externally and filled with white tails leaving question marks over where the MPL cadet's will go.

Here's a few extracts from the different threads:
- The originally advertised 18 month course is taking anywhere from 2.5-3 years
- Cadet's in Phoenix were returned to the UK after only several flights and informed of a six month delay
- Cadet's in ground school have all been informed of significant delays due to lack of aircraft/instructors
- 150 MPL allocated vacancies have been filled with white tails
- Treatment of cadet's is by CAE is very poor
- Recruitment for the course has continued as normal which means hundreds of cadets are in ground school with no availability for flight training on completion of ATPL's

No employment is guaranteed
Thank you, Pilot Mark and thebeast121. I suppose I'm a bit worried about job security. I'm also looking at Skyborne's Integrated (I know!), but this is why:

- They offer the BSc degree hence I can apply for 2 years of student finance. I don't wish to discuss precisely how much as it will potentially reveal my household income, but it is up to more than 40,000 (they state) a lot of people can apply for. It may also help with job prospects/airlines which stipulate a degree requirement to even apply.
- I've heard great things about Skyborne, the staff and quality of training especially. I've visited their training center in Gloucester and it was a very pleasant building.
- Most importantly: from what I've heard the placement in Skyborne is excellent and they have connections with airlines, such as their recent easyJet placements - as far as I know they're not currently hiring low hours outside of MPLs and such, so is it possible Skyborne have direct connections with airlines to place their graduates in? Not to mention the BA Whitetail scheme, but I am questioning how many trainees get into that scheme, so if anyone has any information about this, that would be great. This is rather vital for me, I don't want to be out of work for longer than 6 months having spent a lot of money and I think I would benefit from their graduate placement programme.
- I'm not sure going modular is the route for me, the main priority here is employment, and I have no support after I finish my modular training, as I said before I don't mind paying a little extra to get employment. I've heard Skyborne are very confident in placing their trainees into airlines.
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Old 18th Nov 2023, 16:48
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geardown1 - nothing has changed your summing up is exactly correct.

bitcoin - at the risk of me repeating myself yet again on this thread - THERE ARE NO GUARANTEED JOBS - Even if you are fortunate enough to find your have been accepted on to an airline 'sponsored' scheme the small print will read something like 'satisfactory performance' (which can mean anything - BA used to want 85% pass mark in all theory tests & exams) & will go on to state 'subject to demand'. Quite rightly no company/airline will guarantee you a job as you are an unknown risk despite all the tests & interviews. You are not really there until you pass your line check & some do get chopped along the way.

I was an ATPL theory instructor for over 20 years instructing both airline & self-sponsored students at the major schools. Let's say there were 18 on a course usually at least one got back coursed and about every three months at least one was chopped usually due to poor performance (ground or flying). One airline visiting once sat in a couple of classes with their potential cadets & weren't impressed with 2 cadets due to their arrogant attitude, they were chopped the next day.

Certainly known EZY & other students put into a holding pool sometime for months. I was at Oxford when 9/11 occurred instructing fully sponsored BA & Aer Lingus courses & within 48 hours two of these were cancelled, so much for guaranteed jobs. If your parents are looking for job security you are in the wrong business, remember Covid, Monarch & Flybe going bust twice. A friend of mine (recently retired from BA) when he started out (1980s) with a sponsorship from Bristow Helicopters was made redundant 5 times in 7 years before long term at British Midland then BA.

If you wish to enter this profession I wish you all the best but make sure you fully awake & aware of all the potential risks & don't fall for the glossy sales brochure which will promise lots but might fail to deliver.




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Old 18th Nov 2023, 16:58
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Richard,
Thank you (and everyone else!) in this thread for your insight. Your expertise on the field is much appreciated. I'm extremely relieved to have my suspicions confirmed and I'm leaning towards Skyborne's Integrated course for the reasons stated in my other posts as opposed to a modular route - I don't think that post has quite got through yet at the time of posting this.

If you've watched the short discussion at Pilot Career's live on YT ( I don't think I can post links here!) with two EZY cadets it's rather misleading.

I'll try to get into BA's Whitetail tagged programme - I'll have to start working hard during those 6 months!
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Old 18th Nov 2023, 18:23
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Pleased to help bitcoin.

Only promising or successful cadets/students will be selected by their ATO to attend any Pilot Careers show (read sales pitch).
Can't think of any of the other regular & experienced posters on here would recommend integrated - modular is definitely the least risk option. Though I concede I haven't yet read your other post.

The main reason ATOs push integrated is that the profit margins are much greater (not for your benefit).
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Old 18th Nov 2023, 21:35
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Thanks Richard.

The post has now gone through, if you want to take a look at my thought process for integrated (I know I'm going against the grain here in this forum, but I hope how I explain it establishes some rationale behind my interest).
Might I add:
- Going for modular in this current climate, we'll say it costs 50k-60k excl. TR if airline wants you to pay for it.
Most modular plans include distance learning reducing the price by about 3-4k, which, despite my motivation for my dreams I just cannot facilitate.

- Going integrated with a BSc degree and receiving student finance rather than a modular route is not a huge difference. Student finance, if I'm not mistaken, is mandatory to be paid back once I start making income and above a certain threshold. I think I would also need some support post-training for placement.
- Finally, it might sound a bit ridiculous, but potentially being one of the younger trainees to start I'd like familiarise and build relationship with other fellow trainees. If I went down the modular route, there wouldn't be long to get to know some of my colleagues.
(I don't really have many friends interested in aviation and serious in this career)
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Old 19th Nov 2023, 02:36
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It seems that you have already made your mind up to start on this scheme.
Seriously, put some proper thought into the advice given on this forum.

What others have posted is very true.
- The MPL is the worst form of training as it has by far the highest risk. The reason it is popular is the profit margins are higher.
- It seems you have financial restrictions. Modular can be a hell of a lot cheaper than the easyjet MPL. It'll probably cost 50k more than modular when you add accommodation/ incidentals. Plus that 40k of loans/ grants is a long way off the around 100k you'll need. Then surely you'll add 30k onto the cost of the course so the loan doesn't make that much of a difference?
- What's the other purpose of a degree in aviation? It won't be of much use if the whole industry collapses.
- Nothing in life is guaranteed. The course. The job. Who knows what's around the corner?
- You can do modular ATPL exam courses full-time in the classroom too.
- A lot of the big ATOs are really struggling with training delays at the moment. Especially at the ME and IR stages of training. CAE appears to be among those ATOs and I doubt the backlog will be any better. Modular allows you to pick and choose carefully after each stage. Integrated doesn't.
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Old 19th Nov 2023, 03:45
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Pilots don't need degrees. A degree in the UK is a 3 year plan which will need to be paid for in addition to flight training.

My 3 year plan (from scratch) would be:
1 Get a ground based airline job. Ideally in the office, close to HR and flight ops for obvious reasons.
2 Get a weekend job, preferably something which gives time to study.
3 Live with parents or as cheaply as possible.
4 Build 3 years of good credit
5 Use holiday to get PPL in year 1, CBIR in year 2 and borrow 20k unsecured for ME+CPL in year 3

I would now have a fATPL, a work ethic, minimal debt of ~300pm and an airline job with, at best, access to the people who hire pilots and at the very least an airline name on my CV.

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Old 19th Nov 2023, 06:46
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bitcoin

I implore you to listen to rudestuff's (& others) excellent advice/plan. I have known several students who have gone down this or a similar route.

As you say networking is important but you will get a more valuable network by working on the ground within an airline or airport rather than with other students (your competitors) in addition to a proven work track record. During your journey you will get to meet lots of like-minded people over time. I fully understand the motivation issue regarding ATPL ground school via DL but you can attend a full-time course you just need to budget/plan for 8 months off work. (It's what I did under a different system but with years of IT experience & cash in bank).

Degrees unless you want to be an aeronautical engineer are a waste of time, better off doing a plumbing, electrician or gas engineer apprenticeship ALWAYS demand here!

Last edited by RichardH; 19th Nov 2023 at 07:47.
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Old 19th Nov 2023, 12:17
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Thank you all,

Let's throw the EZY route out of the question, since it doesn't look like a good one.

Rudestuff - I know you're suggesting to spread my training over three years, but I simply don't have 3 years for that. I understand you can get modular fATPL in less time than an integrated one, and I'm currently exploring possibilities.

I say the price difference isn't too big but I think, by saying that, I gave off on impression that we're severely limited by budget - my parents don't mind paying some extra to get support post-training. My number one concern now is employment after training. We've already established there's no "guaranteed jobs" in this industry but I'd like to give myself the best shot. Does anyone know whether these ATOs such as Skyborne have direct employment connections to airlines? We've seen graduates (see Skyborne's instagram) get into EZY 5 days after completion of training, but AFAIK they don't hire low hours/ newly qualified unless from their saturated MPL scheme and other similar routes. I understand 5 days is very rare and can take around 6 months (or more).

I also suspect that having the degree can potentially help your job prospects (correct me if I'm wrong).

My plan currently is to finish training (whether we decide modular or integrated, then get myself to Uni on the next intake and apply to airlines during Uni).
If Modular:
The degree is integrated in the course and costs 6,000 to add on and should be completed more or less during the 18 months, and gives me something to fall back on if I fail a medical.
If I was to go modular I'd like to complete it in one year (is that possible!?) so I can go to Uni with perhaps a deferred entry from next year's entrance.

I did some research and took rudestuff's advice for the best order to do these courses (just to link the other thread I made) for a modular plan and this is what I came up with, if you haven't seem my other thread already.:

I haven't applied for any course yet so I'm under no pressure to make the right decision.
- Doing a PPL (It currently costs 170 locally p/h)
- For the flight hours alone, I'll assume it takes around 50 hours. 50 hours * 170 /hr = 8500
- The theory exams costs 30 per exam, with 9 exams that's 270 for the exams
- I don't have prices for examiner, I'll edit this when they get back to me.
PPL: 8770 + examiner fees, Duration: 1 month, Flight hours: 50
Ground School
- I cannot do distance learning I'm afraid.
- Cost: 5900
Cost: 5900, Duration: 6 months
MEP:

- 6 hour instruction time, 3400 for instructor time
- Theory exam: 30 + 2-3 hours of examiner time: 30 + 1650: 1680
MEP: 5080, Duration: 1 week, Flight hours: 9
CBIR (ME):

- 12,800 quoted
- 150 license issue fee + 40 theory test + 1000 Skill test + 650 landing fees
- Accomodation 1680
CBIR: 14,490, Duration: 6-8 weeks, Flight hours: 15
UPRT:
- 1700 for course
- Accomodation: 150
UPRT: 1850, Duration: 1 week, Flight hours: 3

Hour building:
- I'll need approximately 100 hours to reach the 175 hour minimum to start CPL
- Potentially I could do this in the US, I've seen on forums here that it can be cheaper due to the better weather.
- Found a site which hires for $120/hour
- Total cost for building $120 x 100 hours = $12,000 (at time of writing approximately 9,600)
- Excl license conversion etc for US
Hour building, Cost: 9,600 Duration: (I'm not sure how many hours I can fly per day, I'll say 2 months?)
CPL:

- 7500 for the sim time, and instruction
- Accomodation is 850
CPL: 8350, Duration: 1 month
MCC:

- 6,000 for the course
MCC: 6,000, Duration: 3 weeks
Total Cost: 54,040, Duration: under a year hopefully, plus some examiner fees, CRP5, protractor, headset. MEP and CBIR pre-CPL to save a bit of money building hours.



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Old 19th Nov 2023, 12:42
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You could probably complete that in 15-18 months if you get very lucky weather wise and you can start courses one after the next without any waiting around for availability (and of course that you pass everything first time). No chance it could be done in 12 months...

Why the big rush?

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Old 19th Nov 2023, 12:49
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mpl

I'd like to get a degree ideally, Unis entry is anually so I'd need to catch that deadline
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Old 19th Nov 2023, 13:59
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Arena 33 is correct regarding POSSIBLE time but "Why the big rush" a good question unless you are 40 plus. As you say getting the job at the end is the key but remember this is all down to the laws of supply & demand. CURRENTLY some exceptional students might be lucky to get an offer within a few days though this is very rare, more like months, occasionally years & for some NEVER.

The major ATOs usually have some job & career assistance links but this tends to be very informal, they are certainly not a pilot recruitment agency so don't hold your breath. In my view these links are over sold. In reality when the airlines are looking to recruit low-hour pilots they will approach the ATOs to see if they have any suitable candidates based on ground school, flying & MCC reports. In my experience this open to both integrated & modular students though most find jobs from their own efforts unless already 'sponsored' or 'tagged'.

Thoughts on degrees already made crystal clear. Does your budget for F/T ground school include accommodation & exam fees?
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Old 19th Nov 2023, 15:45
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a

Thank you guys.
I'm going to present my findings from you guys to my parents and see what they think. Honestly they were dead set on paying for integrated but I can sit down with them.

Rather a separate question not related to integrated vs modular, but for the 5 integrated schools:
While flying is a vocational course, do you guys know the sort of transition from A Level workload to Ground School workload? I've heard it's not rather the technicality of the content but the sheer volume of it. I think of myself as academically sound, and have the ace of predicted grades for A Levels. Does A Level results have some direct correlation with ground school results?

Reason I'm asking is because I'm keen to get onto the BA Whitetail scheme if I was to go integrated. I suppose it's subjective, but if I could just ask, how many people achieve an average of 85% or above?

First thing's first, I'm going to go ahead and book a trial flight.
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Old 19th Nov 2023, 17:07
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Some really excellent advice in the threads above, absorb all the info. No rush, unless you're older than 40. Aviation degree is basically useless to be brutally blunt. Many get an aviation degree as a 'back up plan, or fallback' but if the pilot market is in turmoil, then bet your bottom dollar that every single affiliated aviation job is also in turmoil! A pilot or aviation degree soon becomes useless if every part of the industry is suffering. Genuinely more sensible becoming a sparky! Also, if getting a degree adds more money to the final bill, then it's just more debt to pay at the end of the day.

ATPL ground school is comparable to a 4 year uni degree getting crammed into 8 months or less. You don't *need* to be academically smart to get through ground school. Sure, it'll help! But as you've mentioned, it's the volume of info thats difficult, not necessarily the content (especially as you're actually interested in learning the subject, as apposed to being forced to learn pythagorus in school!).

I have no stats, but 85% plus in EVERY subject could actually be a tough ask. Probably many do get that these days with the help of the various ATPL question banks which assist candidates along the way.

Last note from me as an ex base capt involved in recruiting, sometimes the grades and where you train are the least interesting part of a candidate. We wanted to know if a pilot could put up with sitting beside someone in a tube for hours on end and have a good day out. Could've paid the most money in the UK for a licence and went to the apparent best school but if you have no personality and are socially awkward then that will be of concern.

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Old 19th Nov 2023, 17:38
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Smile a

Cannot thank you all enough

I'm keen on nailing the ATPL exams as you've gathered. Is there a way on viewing a version of an (UK) ATPL syllabus? I know some schools study different syllabuses, but I'd like to get a head start and really smash these exams as I've got some free time.
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Old 19th Nov 2023, 17:59
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Have you started any training at all yet? If not, don't run before you can walk! Your PPL exams will warm you up nicely to get stuck in to the ATPLs. So, perhaps start watching some online youtube videos on PPL theory or pick up some PPL theory books to get yourself pointing in the right direction. Also, more important than anything, if you haven't got a class one medical from the UK CAA yet, then do that ABSOLUTELY before you spend a penny on anything else. No point spending a few grand and then realising you can't get a class one and thus never ever be a commercial pilot. Class one medical first. Will cost around 700 for an initial medical then 2-300 per year there after.
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