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Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!

Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.

Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!

Old 26th Mar 2018, 13:10
  #801 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Age: 42
Posts: 419
Quite feasible.
rudestuff is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2018, 19:10
  #802 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 13
Employability

Hello everyone,

I have started my PPL in France at a local club (only 6 hours in) and wondering what would be best :
- Continue my modular in France, and if all goes well, finishing in 2 to 4 years, so I would be 32 - 33 when applying for a job (not necessarily Arline pilot but any pilot job would satisfy me) so maybe a bit old.
- Do a 0-fATPL program (I'm thinking Bartolini or other school in Europe) hopefully finishing sooner and being able to apply sooner for jobs. Also, I know Bartolini is teamed with Wing Alliance so they have some connections with companies.

The modular in France would allow me to keep my job for some time but probably add some time to my qualifications, Bartolini or another full time training would allow me to apply way sooner for jobs.

I also wonder if a recruiter would prefer someone who traveled (and so, have been forced to use English only for his whole training) or wouldn't care about a applicant having done all his training close to home.
I ask because I intend after being qualified to apply to any company, at least in Euroope, maybe in the world (but then there is the problem with converting licenses to FAA or any other authority).

Also, in Europe aside from airline pilot and flight instructor, what jobs can you do as a pilot (while being paid at least the minimum), I wonder if GA is developed like I think it is in USA, seems to me that in Europe you have either big companies or nothing. Could be wrong tho.

Thanks in advance for your insights.
jr
jackrabbitslim7 is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2018, 06:50
  #803 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: England
Posts: 15
32-33 a bit old? Does that mean I can start drawing my pension?
jamesgrainge is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2018, 09:43
  #804 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by jamesgrainge View Post
32-33 a bit old? Does that mean I can start drawing my pension?
Haha, nah but I mean in reality I will probably be a newbie at 30-33 while others applicants without experience as pilots would probably be younger, 20-25yo.
jackrabbitslim7 is offline  
Old 25th Apr 2018, 20:08
  #805 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Wilts
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by jackrabbitslim7 View Post
Haha, nah but I mean in reality I will probably be a newbie at 30-33 while others applicants without experience as pilots would probably be younger, 20-25yo.
I know somebody in their mid 40s - currently on an integrated course and confident of gaining airline employment once complete.
flyingkeyboard is offline  
Old 25th Apr 2018, 21:14
  #806 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 13
0-fATPL or totally modular

Thanks for you replies.
I'm trying to sort my ideas.
I'm actually in the process of selling a house, allowing me to do a 0-fATPL program once sold (but the process of selling the house could take some time). What do you think is best, waiting to sell the house, and then going in one big step from zero to commercial pilot, or going for a PPL this summer (in Hungary there is an offer for a 3 to 5 week PPL program) then do time building in France and once I have enough hours, apply for a CPL program ?

Do you think the ATPL theory can be done while keeping a full time job or is it better to quit work and go full time doing time building and ATPL alongside in order to apply quickly to a CPL program ?
jackrabbitslim7 is offline  
Old 26th Apr 2018, 11:50
  #807 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 11
Does anyone know of residential, integrated ATPL theory programs except Oxford?
emilio123 is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2018, 10:24
  #808 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: England
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by jackrabbitslim7 View Post
Thanks for you replies.
I'm trying to sort my ideas.
I'm actually in the process of selling a house, allowing me to do a 0-fATPL program once sold (but the process of selling the house could take some time). What do you think is best, waiting to sell the house, and then going in one big step from zero to commercial pilot, or going for a PPL this summer (in Hungary there is an offer for a 3 to 5 week PPL program) then do time building in France and once I have enough hours, apply for a CPL program ?

Do you think the ATPL theory can be done while keeping a full time job or is it better to quit work and go full time doing time building and ATPL alongside in order to apply quickly to a CPL program ?
I may get slated for this, however, as a current modular student doing the ATPL theory, if you are happy to spend almost double the amount on an integrated school, and can live for a year whilst studying, I would recommend an integrated course. The ATPL is very difficult in terms of motivation and volume on a modular basis, unless of course you would be studying full time anyway, I suspect the integrated ground school would be of much help. And it would be the quickest route to completion generally.
jamesgrainge is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2018, 18:24
  #809 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 13
Ok thanks.
Is it possible to do only the ATPL theory in a ground school (so full time with class lessons) and do the rest modular ?

When I saw the proposition from Bartolini, the ATPL theory was ventilated as follow : 80H class, 650 e-learning (they are using Bristol GS ATPL) it seems they were confident you could complete the program in 9 month. So if possible my plan (other than a 0-fATPL program) was to finish my PPL this summer, then take ATPL theory and start hour building. If ATPL is too heavy whilst working full time, I would quit my job and concentrate for some months on ATPL and hour building, then hopefully passing the CPL and required exams, then looking for a job, then maybe type rating if job hunting fail.

Is it a good idea to do IR rating just after the PPL (with night rating) to be able to train to any type of flying during hour building phase before CPL IR ME ?
jackrabbitslim7 is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2018, 18:46
  #810 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: England
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by jackrabbitslim7 View Post
Ok thanks.
Is it possible to do only the ATPL theory in a ground school (so full time with class lessons) and do the rest modular ?

When I saw the proposition from Bartolini, the ATPL theory was ventilated as follow : 80H class, 650 e-learning (they are using Bristol GS ATPL) it seems they were confident you could complete the program in 9 month. So if possible my plan (other than a 0-fATPL program) was to finish my PPL this summer, then take ATPL theory and start hour building. If ATPL is too heavy whilst working full time, I would quit my job and concentrate for some months on ATPL and hour building, then hopefully passing the CPL and required exams, then looking for a job, then maybe type rating if job hunting fail.

Is it a good idea to do IR rating just after the PPL (with night rating) to be able to train to any type of flying during hour building phase before CPL IR ME ?
I believe there are ground schools for theory, but I haven't looked into it. So I could be wrong.

If you study full time, 8h per day every day, there's no reason why it couldn't be done in 9 months. They are significant and hard work though. Under estimate their difficulty at your peril.

As for the IR that depends how you intend on doing your flying. Most schools.offer combined IR,CPL and ME courses. In order to satisfy the required hours for each area. That's a personal choice. There are exams for the IR which would need passing before you started the course. If you want the ATPL then personally I would combine it all into one. Again, That's personal choice though.
jamesgrainge is offline  
Old 28th Apr 2018, 18:56
  #811 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Age: 42
Posts: 419
Originally Posted by jackrabbitslim7 View Post
Ok thanks.
Is it possible to do only the ATPL theory in a ground school (so full time with class lessons) and do the rest modular ?

Is it a good idea to do IR rating just after the PPL (with night rating) to be able to train to any type of flying during hour building phase before CPL IR ME ?
Yes. There are many schools which offer 6 month full time ATPL courses.

You can't do the IR immediately after the ppl, you need 50 hours cross country PIC time before you can start. However it is a very good it's to take the IR before the CPL of you want to get everything done in 200 hours.

By far the cheapest (and by cheaper I mean at least £10k cheaper) is to start with an FAA PPL then add an IR and ME rating. You have to hour build anyway, so it's just the instruction you're paying for. Here's the punchline: if you get 50 hours PIC under ifr (free in your hour building) then you can convert to an EASA MEIR with no minimum aircraft hours (normally it's 21 plus 40 SIM)
Then all you need to do is a 15 hour single engine CPL course.
rudestuff is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2018, 08:54
  #812 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8
ICAO CPL to EASA fATPL

Good day all.

I am Looking to Convert my current ICAO CPL to an EASA fATPL.

I currently Hold an ICAO Class1 Medical, ICAO MCC, etc.

Please can someone with regards to this as I am moving to the UK very soon.

I believe that I need to do the EASA Class 1 medical before I start with anything. (this costs aropund 550 pounds)

Would Just like to find out from anyone that can help what would be the best and cheapest ropute for me to go about to finish all the required training and then be able to get a job in the UK.

Please help with:
1) Ground School Stugesstions and costs
2) Flight School Suggestions and costs
3) Who will be able to hire me after finishing the training. (Would love to work for the likes of EasyJet, RyanAir, etc)

I currently have 1500Hrs Total time, 1200Hrs Multicrew (Cessna Grand Caravan - multicrew in RSA ehen more than 9 pax carried), 40Hrs Night

all help would be greatly appriciated

Regards
Luke
Luke3514 is offline  
Old 12th May 2018, 16:13
  #813 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 72
Modular Flight Schools to Consider

Hi All,

I am just starting my ATPL theory exams, and I have realised that I best get on with booking my CPL MEIR somewhere, as waiting lists seems long... for example Oct 2019 is the earliest for Bartolini Air. I plan on getting through there ATPL's in 10 - 12 months, as well as my hours building.

So these are the schools I am so far considering, and I plan on visiting them.

Diamond Flight academy
Bartolini
BAA Training
Egnatia
STO Flight training Stolkholme


Are there any others I have missed which I should be considering? I am not including Oxford, L3 or FTE Jerez, due to costs.

I know there are several threads on schools, but I guess reputation and opinions are forever changing, I would also like to hear if people think one is worth going for even if it means waiting an additional 6 months for a place, such as Bartolini?

The other thing I am unsure of is this "Wings alliance" they have approved training providers... but I'm not sure how much use they would be, and if its worth sticking to only the schools they endorse... I would appreciate any opinion on them.

One other thing to add is... I don't fancy a "rushed course" as in I am not attracted to a school saying it only takes 8 weeks or whatever, I would rather the take a bit longer is my preference... but I guess the good schools need to get people through quickly.
PelicanSquawk is offline  
Old 12th May 2018, 21:43
  #814 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by button push ignored View Post
PelicanSquawk.
You have to consider what your living situation is.
And your every day expenses.
It all comes into play, as to where the best school for you would be.
Every situation is different.
No two people are the same.

I had a part-time high paying evening and week-end job, that allowed me the freedom to train when and where I wanted.
And a place to stay for free.
Without it, things would have been much different.

You are listed as London.
If you are North East London.
You may want to consider Stapleford.
If your South London, then FTA needs to be considered.
West London, then Airways.
You will pay more to do it from home, but may save in the long run.

But if you are a free agent.
Then Iíd pack up the car and head for Eastern Europe.
Bartolini and Baltic are very good.
As is Diamond.
Iíd stay away from Greece.

Scheduling seems to be the name of the game now.
I was thinking that if you booked up Bartolini for Oct 2019.
Could you go from zero to 175 hours and ATPL written passed in that time frame?
Maybe, maybe not.
Time waits for no man.
And Iím not waiting on any school.
If you already have a PPL and are working on your ATPLs, then Oct 19 isnít going to work out.
You can over think a situation.
Life doesnít go according to plan very often.

Iíve been unsure as to what exactly Wings Alliance is too.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah I already have my ATPL, so I think the ATPL exams in a year is very doable, so yeah I guess October 2019 is too far away... I'm only getting older. My plan is to stop working entirely before I go do the CPL MEIR, so location isn't an issue, in fact I'm sure to enjoy the experience in another country more than staying in London.

I've emailed all the schools, and I'll see what their responses are. Diamond seems fully booked also... Bartolini did say I could be on a waiting list, but I don't want to end up waiting until Oct 2019.
PelicanSquawk is offline  
Old 13th May 2018, 12:14
  #815 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by button push ignored View Post
You canít always get what you want.
But youíll find sometimes, youíll get what you need.

You may find exactly what you want at home.
Sure a road trip would have been fun.
Save it for a A320 type rating.

Donít e-mail.
Go visit the three local ones, SFC, FTA, Airways.
Also add BCFT to the list, and talk to the chief.
I bet youíll know exactly where to go having spoken to all four.

Have you done your hour building?
Rudestuff had some spectacularly good advice on how to double and triple dip.
We all know that night should be combined with cross-country.
But I had never considered doing 50 hours under the hood before.
I'm going to be doing my hours building as I study for my ATPLs. I'm hoping to get a school which focuses mainly on getting people through the CPL MEIR, that way being structured with that aim in mind, and training alongside others in the same boat. I get the impression that many of the UK schools tend to do a bit of everything, where as the likes of Diamond and Bartolini seem a bit more focussed... I could be wrong. I'll have to enquire with all of them.
PelicanSquawk is offline  
Old 13th May 2018, 15:34
  #816 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Antipodes
Posts: 60
PelicanSquawk
Put Atlantic Flight Training Academy (AFTA) in Cork on your list. They are very good.
PigeonVoyageur is offline  
Old 25th May 2018, 10:09
  #817 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 10
Could someone be so kind as to give a ball park price for modular training zero hours I was hoping it could be done for £50k. Any insight would be hugely appreciated many thanks sf85
Scouseflier85 is offline  
Old 25th May 2018, 11:54
  #818 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 68
Posts: 3,834
Less than that - Talk to Rob Spencer [email protected].
paco is offline  
Old 25th May 2018, 19:45
  #819 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: High Wycombe
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by Jaair View Post
1. Do bigger European airlines still consider pilots who went the modular route?
Definitely. Ryanair, Jet2 and Flybe to name a few.

2. Will airlines still consider me, even if I did 'fail' half of my ATPLs at first attempt all those years ago?
Good question, but I thought ATPL results 'expire' after a few years if you haven't finished the course? But to answer the question, it depends on the airline as some may be picky. I believe Ryanair allow 2 fails, but I am basing that on something I heard a few months ago. Note that ATPL fails are merely a form of reducing the CV pile size. A bad set of ATPL results does not mean that the candidate is a bad pilot as I've heard there's a lot of crap needed to be learnt as well as ambiguous exam questions.

I would never let that be a deciding factor as to whether or not to start training. If you are determined and have the passion then worry not, you will eventually be flying for a living. It may not be within a week, month or year after graduating but if you stay within aviation and don't give up then you will eventually find yourself in the RHS.

3. Are the theoretical elements possible through distance learning (e.g. ground school)?
Yes, e.g. BGS. Search around PPRuNe to find lots of people having done their ATPL while married with kids and working a full time job. A lot of them are also now flying.

4. Is modular the way to go in my situation? Any other route that can be done Ďpart-time'?
Pretty sure most integrated schools are full time. So if you want to do it all part-time then modular would definitely be the way. With the current pilot forecast for the next 2 decades it seems like pilots will be in much greater demand. Some people have mentioned that there has been a decrease in demand over the past 12 months but it could be explained by the sudden supply of pilots from Monarch/Air Berlin.

5. What schools are recommended within easy reach of London (especially for the PPL)? Iím willing to travel up to 2 hours by train - no problem - so long as the school is reputable and my qualifications respected as I continue doing the licences/courses.

6. Any other input is much appreciated
I got my PPL a few years ago and starting my ATPL in summer after graduating from University. Would be happy to keep in touch with you or anyone else who reads this so feel free to shoot me a PM. We all have the same goal here.
Hey hows it going. Can't PM you, I think its cos I'm a new user.

I'm going Uni this year, hoping to do PPL during 2-3 year of uni, and was wondering to complete my PPL earlier and leave it for a year or two before beginning my ATPL.. Did that affect what you've already learnt during your PPL as I assume ATPL would be a building block to the PPL or would u recommend doing all modular courses back to back, as I'm impatient to learn to fly asap. Thanks
AspiringPilot28 is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2018, 11:21
  #820 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Riga
Posts: 7
Anyone know any reputable schools in the north of England?
Wandering Paddy is offline  

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