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Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!

Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.

Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!

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Old 6th Nov 2017, 00:10
  #781 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: EGHH
Age: 19
Posts: 49
Yes, good point regarding the MEP rating;

When working towards gaining the 'frozen' ATPL, one only needs to complete the training but not necessarily sit the 1hr skills test, which will save you several hundred £s.

Unless of course, you wish to fly such machines commercially or the thought of spending £450ph to hire a twin for personal use is your cup of tea. .

rudestuff

But what if your CV gets chucked in the bin before you even get a chance to sit in front of that interviewer, due to not meeting some petty requirements stated in the job advert for certain ATPL pass rates or training at a certain (number of) school(s) etc.?

Last edited by JumboJet1999; 6th Nov 2017 at 10:14.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 10:16
  #782 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Age: 40
Posts: 922
That's why it's the hard part. You need to think outside the box. Often petty requirements are there to whittle thousands down to hundreds, so you have to find a way around the system. I've seen pilots asked by HR if they know anyone looking for a job - even though there is a huge pile of CVs on the desk. Knowing someone on the inside is the key, so get to know people. If they like you, you're in. Network.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 00:56
  #783 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: EGNT
Posts: 36
Hi all,

I'm currently studying for my PPL locally. However I have my eyes set further down the runway. I've mapped together a loose training plan and it would be wonderful if I could get some feedback?

PPL+NR (local) 6,000.
Hour Build- 6,000.
ATPL Theory- BGS 4,500
CPL/ME/IR- Diamond Flight Academy 25,000
MCC/JOC - ? (budgeting approx 9,000?)

Total training cost touching 50,500 in total including exam fees and maintenance.

Training at the above schools would open doors to the Wings Alliance APC. I was also told that L3 are actively placing their AQC students with airlines such as easyjet and Wizz.

Any thoughts?
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 12:49
  #784 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Manchester
Posts: 64
Your location looks to be cheaper than mine for sure! From being in the same boat looking further down the line I spent awhile looking into all this so heres my experience so far.

PPL costs can vary depending on an upfront payment for the entire cost vs pay as you fly. For example if I paid upfront for mine it would've been £8,300 at my chosen school for everything incl first exam attempts and so on. Pay as you go I've been advised to budget about 500 more incl books and misc bits and pieces like maps, maybe a headset,

NR - Ball park figure I've found is £1000

Hour Building - can vary massively depending what you're learning on / what you'll hour build with and if you hire from a club, buy a share and so on which is something I've just made a post about actually for myself using a club A/C for around 85/90hrs £8,000 roughly.

ATPL Theory - I plan on doing this distance learning if possible which comes in at around £2,000 BGS Via Bartolini Air.

CPL/IR/MEP - Now this is the tricky one, the IR alone can cost close to the amount for all 3 depending where you go to. From what I've looked at (wings alliance calculator). I hadn't heard of Diamond Flight Academy to be honest prior to reading your post. I plan on doing the CPL/IR/ME at Bartolini Air in Poland. at present its £15990 with the current exchange rate adding on around 1000 or so for accommodation, flight and incidentals like food

MCC/JOC - I haven't looked too much into this to be honest but from a quick search around 2400 up to 9000 at CTC

I have friends who have been modular and integrated both now with airlines incl the Qatar MPL via L3 and Thomson via modular. I had the opportunity to attempt to get a place on the EASYJET MPL but decided this was the better course of action.

Just as a side note and to be taken with a pinch of salt a friend of a friend who recently finished up a whitetail program at CTC has been excluded from applying to easy jet and wizz whilst there MPL/ATPL programs are open, despite being 'sold the hold pool dream' from day 1. I believe he interviewed at jet2 with no luck and is now considering freight / biz jet options. So I personally wouldn't spend a vast amount more just to be placed in a hold pool with a lot of other people and going down the pecking order over each subsequent month when the same can be achieved for less but thats just me.

If you do the CPL/IR/ME at Bartolini you get placed in their hold pool for Adria thus making an expensive AQC obsolete (in my opinion) another option which is something I've done myself is get a job with an airline in some capacity to get a foot in the door as it were. All in all if everything goes to plan my overall costs should be around £40,000 give or take £5,000

Hope this can help!
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 12:27
  #785 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 48
Looking for thoughts and advice on the following options I am considering:

EasyJet MPL - £109k - massive loan

Modular
PPL - £8,320 - Stapleford
NR - £950 - Stapleford
Hour Building - £11,000 - Stapleford
ATPL exams - £4,500 - BGS
CPL/ME/IR - £23,000 - Diamond
MCC/JOC - £9,000 - Wings Alliance/L3

Peripherals plus exams fees etc - £1,000

Total - £56,770

All with Bartolini
PPL - £7,900
NR - £1,025
Hour Building - £11,000
ATPL exams - £17,000
CPL/ME/IR - £9,000

Peripherals plus exams fees etc - £1,000
Accommodation - £4,000
Living Expenses - £3,000

MCC/JOC - £9,000

Total - £63,925

I am inclined to go with Bartolini as it is an all in one course, but am interested in peopleís thoughts. Also I might be slightly overstating some of the costs, but thatís on the basis itís prudent to budget like that.
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 14:17
  #786 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Spain
Posts: 167
The first modular route looks good to me (don't want to put all your eggs in one basket like in the second route - might as well do integrated I'd say).

And regarding the Easy loan - unless you are able to fund a significant amount out of your pocket I would not recommending taking out such a big loan, especially with no guarantees at the end.
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 14:40
  #787 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Age: 40
Posts: 922
FAA PPL 40 hours (includes night rating) one month - £5000
45 hours hour building, 2 weeks - £2500
40 hours IR training, one month - £5100
45 hours hour building, 2 weeks (to include 35 hours IFR) - £2500
Flights - £500
3 months accommodation and car hire £3000 (you would pay for meals anyway)
Visa/flight tests - £1000 US COST: £19,600
=======================
Atpl distance learning course - CATS - £1500
Exams. - £1000
=======================
EASA PPL - £1000 (to hang your CBIR on because you want to do that first)
MEP training (you donít need to take the test) - £3000
CBIR (10 hours multi) - £6000
CPL (15 hours Arrow) - £4000 UK COST: £16,500

Total spend: £36,100 plus your choice of MCC
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 15:48
  #788 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 48
rudestuff, is that with particular place/school in the US in mind or more just ballpark figures that I can aim for?
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 19:54
  #789 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Age: 40
Posts: 922
Those were actual figures from flying academy (one of the first ones that cane up in Google) - I converted to GBP and rounded up. Hour building rates from fast time building. There's no point converting a CPL, but a CBIR will save a fortune.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 22:53
  #790 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: N/A
Posts: 15
Been doing a lot of reading on the forums over the last 2 years regarding ATPL ground school and Modular vs Integrated. Myself like many others can't fathom paying upwards of 100k when people who pay half of that figure end up in the same job. I have applied to integrated schemes run by OAA, FTEJ etc. I even got to the last stage of one with Flybe for the MPL course. When I look back, I am glad things worked out the way they did.

The best small bit of advice I can give as someone who has finished his planning to go ahead with modular training and has enrolled on ATPL ground school is this. Microsoft Excel. Create a master spread sheet and spend hours if not days looking online for training providers and match it up with accommodation, materials, flights, living cost and put it all into a easy to look at spreadsheet format etc. It gives you options and can always be edited or updated. Time is your friend when you are not already in debt. get yourself inspired for the journey. I now have a plan that if all goes well may end in a job for roughly 67K. Not the cheapest figure but it does account for a potential job that I have a good chance of getting an interview for should my flying abilities be at the best standard they can be and my exams all good passes.

Incase anyone was wondering what mines kinda looks like, I shall put most of it below.


CAA Class One Medical
£450-£500

(I already hold a Class 2 for my PPL and have no health issues to date)


ATPL exams -CAPT Ground School Course(Inc exams, equipment)
£2600

(It's a distance learning course but I luckily have a CAA exam centre 5 mins from my house and the classroom learning is also done 5 mins from my home)

Hour Building - Fly in Spain (75h PIC flying inc flights&accom)
£11000

(not the cheapest option but it's in european airspace which my PPL covers and provides good flying weather and a shorter time scale for completion)

ME/IR/CPL - Diamond Flight Academy (inc flights and accommodation)
£23189

(This school looks really impressive. The Instructors, accommodation and the aircraft all get great reviews and hype. Definitely worth looking into. I was sold at the word DA42NG and someone else online saying some of the instructors worked for Diamond designing the aircraft and have invaluable tips and knowledge.)


MCC/JOC - Simtech, Dublin
£4026 (Inc accommodation/flights)

(anyone wanting to go Ryanair should look this school up. A lot of placements with FR and it's in Dublin... No need to say any more) -


Ryanair Type Rating Scheme
£26k (converted from price in euros)

(I actually happen to currently work for FR so having friends and colleagues where I want to be is something I am very fortunate to have. Anyone who is 18+ and looking to become an airline pilot should look for seasonal work on check-in desks at your local international airport. Best move I ever did at 18 and it sure beats working on a shop floor when you can be gaining crucial airline ground experience which proves invaluable for interviews and CV's I have been told by numerous interviewers and pilots.)

Finally, Good luck Guys and Gals on the same boat as me! Wish everyone the best of luck with training
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 17:11
  #791 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Spain
Posts: 167
GAPilot261087, looks like a nice breakdown. I would budget around 35k GBP for the type rating though. I know a few people who have had to spend around €40k for it due to accommodation etc.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 13:00
  #792 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portugal
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by GAPilot261087 View Post

Hour Building - Fly in Spain (75h PIC flying inc flights&accom)
£11000

(not the cheapest option but it's in european airspace which my PPL covers and provides good flying weather and a shorter time scale for completion)
May I know in which airplane you planned the 11K for the time building? Around 165€/hour including accomodation seems a really good price.

Thanks and good luck!
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 14:00
  #793 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: N/A
Posts: 15
I would have to agree. 26k is just for the course. Depending on where you do the TR and time scale, accommodation may be pricey in some places. I have a few friends who did it in CAE Amsterdam say to budget extra. There is more miscellaneous costs involved with insurance, uniform etc but I think if you have successfully gained a job then that is definetly less of a worry.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 14:12
  #794 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: N/A
Posts: 15
I have planned for the C150. I suppose it comes down to availability in the end though doesn't it. I normally fly PA28s in the UK but that is to go with friends and family. 75hrs on a C150 comes up at €8475 and then when you take into account landing fees and accommodation it does add up especially as its 75 landings if not more at around €15-20! Then there is accommodation and flights to and from Jerez. I think the planning of all the flying training is just important as the training itself.

Good luck to you also my friend!
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 14:31
  #795 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Age: 40
Posts: 922
Good price?! There's no reason to pay more than Ä100 an hour for hourbuilding.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 14:50
  #796 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Spain
Posts: 167
I agree with rudestuff here, if you're willing to go abroad to hour build then the US would be much more economical.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 22:04
  #797 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: N/A
Posts: 15
I have been very tempted with the alternative cheap USA option and have numerous quotes for the same hours that are indeed cheaper per flying hour however, there is a few things that make me more inclined to do it in Spain.

Spains airspace is pretty simple from what I've checked and has lots of similarities to the UK. It also works with skydemon to make life a bit easier but I suppose you can get forelight for the US..
The USA does also require learning a whole bunch of new procedures both flying and RT. It probably would be manageable to learn but what I have found is once you add up the cost of flights to and from, accommodation, renting a car, spending money for food and fuel (depending on dry or wet lease), it works out very similar to doing it in Spain.

I also must admit that I love going on holiday to Spain so it kinda gives the best of both for me!
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 23:33
  #798 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in a room
Posts: 95
i agree but as rudestuff said earlier if you go to the states you can also save money in the long run by doing faa add on's to your current license, where it permits, again it comes down to money and time, i may look at states within the next few months or just go to spain or neighbouring states etc
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 00:07
  #799 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: N/A
Posts: 15
It's certainly a good option if you are really wanting to budget and experience the US. I'd love to do some flying in the US at some point but personally, I would't consider doing more than hour building in the US and some multi engine time at most. I looked at doing the conversions route before and asked various line captains and even a TRI/E about it. I was basically told to stick with doing it in Europe under EASA. Apparently it is easy to tell in the sim if someone has learned IR in the USA due to certain traits. Not really sure what the errors might be but I took their word for it as I trust there opinions.

But then again, this may just be the case with certain trainees. Given that Rudestuff is an airline pilot who has been there and done it, I am sure doing a CBIR and everything works perfectly fine. There is obviously not just one correct way to do things. Personal preference really. I am gonna stick to doing my flying training in Europe if I can !

Last edited by GAPilot261087; 7th Feb 2018 at 00:25.
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 18:20
  #800 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dubai
Posts: 2
Question Advice about training

Hello everyone,

First I'm sorry if my message is a little bit too personal, but I really need some advice since I'm about to choose my path for getting my EASA ATPL.

I'm a cabin crew working for Emirates (so based in Dubai) and I was planning to start this year a training at Superior Air (in Greece) while continuing to fly as cabin crew so i could pay my training.
Then i looked into Air France who just started again their cadet training and it looked amazing for me however i would need to have the ATPL theory to apply for this job.
So i checked for a school in UK to get my ATPL but realized I needed to get the PPL first before going for ATPL.

So my question is : Should i go for the full package with superior air and take 1,5 / 2 years but without flying experience, and then look for a company like Ryan Air etc ,
or should I do it step by step with first the PPL, then ATPL theory and try my luck with Air France cadets after that ?

-Any other suggestions ?

Sorry again but my mind is going everywhere now and I'm trying to get some opinions outside of my EK colleagues .

Cheers !
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