Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!
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Success stories
Hi all,
I don't think there's a specific thread for this, apologies if there is. I'm a newbie, about to start a PPL on the modular route to the cockpit. I'm mid 30s to time isn't particularly on my side.
I'm just interested in pilots posting here with real success stories on who they fly for and how they got there. Mainly modular students but also integrated too to balance up the argument.
The reason I'm tentative about starting down this path is a) Deciding which is the best route but also b) from reading this forum, is it really worth the investment to do it at all?
Some lead you to believe that the world will be your oyster once you have a fATPL and others seem to suggest it's largely irrelevant because if you don't have an extra £25k to pay an airline for TR then you won't get a job anyway.
I'm wondering how ethically sound the whole industry is when you have to pay someone to give you a job. I have the means through success in my other career to fund training to an extent but my fear is that I'd get priced out of the market by all the rich 18 year olds with bottomless pockets. I think the industry realises that money is no object for many pilots.
I'm passionate about achieving this goal but it cannot be at 'any cost'. Investing life savings into something isn't something I'm going to take lightly so any positive spins on this would be most beneficial.
Also any insights into re-occurring costs would be great. I.e say I have a fATPL and don't get employment, do I have to re-validate every year and pay thousands whilst waiting for that job? I realise the medical needs renewing every year too.
Lots of questions and still no clear path!
I don't think there's a specific thread for this, apologies if there is. I'm a newbie, about to start a PPL on the modular route to the cockpit. I'm mid 30s to time isn't particularly on my side.
I'm just interested in pilots posting here with real success stories on who they fly for and how they got there. Mainly modular students but also integrated too to balance up the argument.
The reason I'm tentative about starting down this path is a) Deciding which is the best route but also b) from reading this forum, is it really worth the investment to do it at all?
Some lead you to believe that the world will be your oyster once you have a fATPL and others seem to suggest it's largely irrelevant because if you don't have an extra £25k to pay an airline for TR then you won't get a job anyway.
I'm wondering how ethically sound the whole industry is when you have to pay someone to give you a job. I have the means through success in my other career to fund training to an extent but my fear is that I'd get priced out of the market by all the rich 18 year olds with bottomless pockets. I think the industry realises that money is no object for many pilots.
I'm passionate about achieving this goal but it cannot be at 'any cost'. Investing life savings into something isn't something I'm going to take lightly so any positive spins on this would be most beneficial.
Also any insights into re-occurring costs would be great. I.e say I have a fATPL and don't get employment, do I have to re-validate every year and pay thousands whilst waiting for that job? I realise the medical needs renewing every year too.
Lots of questions and still no clear path!
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There is no magic solution that fits to everyone
That being said. what I (50 years old, so the majors are not an option) worked out as an end goal: Freelance pilot (CPL/IFR MEP) with a FI rating. To reach this goal I chose the modular route since I can work and train at the same time. Figured 50K Euros by the time all is said and done, over 4 years. Making a per year investment of 12,500€ (about 1000€ per month) and I hope for a ROI of about 10% on that inverstment when I retire. I have a good paying job, flexible work hours, solid family support, and the drive to get it done. BUT MY SITUATION IS NOT LIKE ANYONE ELSES. My advice, sit down, do the math, work out how many hours you need (145 hours for PPL = 100 Theory + 45 flying, 650 ATPL Theory, 50 hours IFR flying time time, CPL 15 flying hours, MEP + MEP IFR 11 hours, FI 115 hours theory and flying).
When you work out the costs, add at least 10% for any extras (maps, headphones, landing fees, beers with FI) or unexpected issues. There is no magic solution, but if you sit down, analyze, and try to work out plan, you will definitely be further ahead than the folks who just dive in without thinking.
When you work out the costs, add at least 10% for any extras (maps, headphones, landing fees, beers with FI) or unexpected issues. There is no magic solution, but if you sit down, analyze, and try to work out plan, you will definitely be further ahead than the folks who just dive in without thinking.
Last edited by cavok_flyer; 27th Apr 2017 at 06:03.
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Modular Training: How many FTOs?
It seems that many (although by no means all) on this website recommend that Modular Training be done at 1 to 2 schools. Does this mean that the PPL, ATPL Theory, CPL/ME/IR, and MCC/JOC should all be done at 1 to 2 schools, or simply that only the CPL/ME/IR be done at 1 to 2 schools? Thanks!
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I have my PPL and just about to finish my last theoretical ATPL exam. I have been browsing for a school to finish my multi-engin, IR and maybe some hour-building and have been looking at school all over europe without really knowing if it is a good school or not. Anyone have any solid recommendation?
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my story
Im stuck in the same situation as many in this thread and need to evaluate my choices wisely.So im 19 ive recently just finished my a levels and realised i didnt want to go to uni so went straight into a job baggage handling.
I realised i then had a massive passion to become a pilot and after a summer i changed jobs and im now a cargo loader/loadmaster at ema.Now 5 hrs into my ppl at sfc egbn and trying to save every month to fund my dream.ive realised the company i work for does have a pilot cadet scheme but i bet its hard to get on. I just need advice on funding and wheres best to do my training as i live in Derby and i can't find much
I realised i then had a massive passion to become a pilot and after a summer i changed jobs and im now a cargo loader/loadmaster at ema.Now 5 hrs into my ppl at sfc egbn and trying to save every month to fund my dream.ive realised the company i work for does have a pilot cadet scheme but i bet its hard to get on. I just need advice on funding and wheres best to do my training as i live in Derby and i can't find much
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Does it matter where you do your PPL
Hi guys,
People tend to advise that you should do your modular training a 1 or 2 schools. Does this include your PPL or is that not an issue?
People tend to advise that you should do your modular training a 1 or 2 schools. Does this include your PPL or is that not an issue?
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Liveforthesky
It is only concerning the CPL, IR and possibly MER (makes sense so that you get used to exactly the same twin you'll use for your ME-IR) where it is advisable to stick with the one single school; on the other hand, the PPL and hour building in particular (including your NR, IR(R) etc. if desired) can be done wherever you wish. If distance learning especially, the ATPL theory course will most likely have to be done with a separate school.
I am led to believe it was only Flybe who have had this as a prerequisite for modular candidates from a while back, though it appears to have evolved into a rule of thumb for modular guys since.
It is probably a good way of going about your training anyway.
It is only concerning the CPL, IR and possibly MER (makes sense so that you get used to exactly the same twin you'll use for your ME-IR) where it is advisable to stick with the one single school; on the other hand, the PPL and hour building in particular (including your NR, IR(R) etc. if desired) can be done wherever you wish. If distance learning especially, the ATPL theory course will most likely have to be done with a separate school.
I am led to believe it was only Flybe who have had this as a prerequisite for modular candidates from a while back, though it appears to have evolved into a rule of thumb for modular guys since.
It is probably a good way of going about your training anyway.
Guys, there are two things you need to land a job: 1) a license 2) to get yourself sat in front of the interviewer. If you can manage that, no one is going to care what your average exam score was, or how many schools you went to. At that point they're looking to see if you'll fit in. Getting a license is the easy bit, figuring out 2) is the tricky bit. Other than that, to save a bit of cash don't bother getting an MEP rating.
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Yes, good point regarding the MEP rating;
When working towards gaining the 'frozen' ATPL, one only needs to complete the training but not necessarily sit the 1hr skills test, which will save you several hundred £s.
Unless of course, you wish to fly such machines commercially or the thought of spending £450ph to hire a twin for personal use is your cup of tea. .
rudestuff
But what if your CV gets chucked in the bin before you even get a chance to sit in front of that interviewer, due to not meeting some petty requirements stated in the job advert for certain ATPL pass rates or training at a certain (number of) school(s) etc.?
When working towards gaining the 'frozen' ATPL, one only needs to complete the training but not necessarily sit the 1hr skills test, which will save you several hundred £s.
Unless of course, you wish to fly such machines commercially or the thought of spending £450ph to hire a twin for personal use is your cup of tea. .
rudestuff
But what if your CV gets chucked in the bin before you even get a chance to sit in front of that interviewer, due to not meeting some petty requirements stated in the job advert for certain ATPL pass rates or training at a certain (number of) school(s) etc.?
Last edited by JumboJet1999; 6th Nov 2017 at 10:14.
That's why it's the hard part. You need to think outside the box. Often petty requirements are there to whittle thousands down to hundreds, so you have to find a way around the system. I've seen pilots asked by HR if they know anyone looking for a job - even though there is a huge pile of CVs on the desk. Knowing someone on the inside is the key, so get to know people. If they like you, you're in. Network.
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Hi all,
I'm currently studying for my PPL locally. However I have my eyes set further down the runway. I've mapped together a loose training plan and it would be wonderful if I could get some feedback?
PPL+NR (local) 6,000.
Hour Build- 6,000.
ATPL Theory- BGS 4,500
CPL/ME/IR- Diamond Flight Academy 25,000
MCC/JOC - ? (budgeting approx 9,000?)
Total training cost touching 50,500 in total including exam fees and maintenance.
Training at the above schools would open doors to the Wings Alliance APC. I was also told that L3 are actively placing their AQC students with airlines such as easyjet and Wizz.
Any thoughts?
I'm currently studying for my PPL locally. However I have my eyes set further down the runway. I've mapped together a loose training plan and it would be wonderful if I could get some feedback?
PPL+NR (local) 6,000.
Hour Build- 6,000.
ATPL Theory- BGS 4,500
CPL/ME/IR- Diamond Flight Academy 25,000
MCC/JOC - ? (budgeting approx 9,000?)
Total training cost touching 50,500 in total including exam fees and maintenance.
Training at the above schools would open doors to the Wings Alliance APC. I was also told that L3 are actively placing their AQC students with airlines such as easyjet and Wizz.
Any thoughts?
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Your location looks to be cheaper than mine for sure! From being in the same boat looking further down the line I spent awhile looking into all this so heres my experience so far.
PPL costs can vary depending on an upfront payment for the entire cost vs pay as you fly. For example if I paid upfront for mine it would've been £8,300 at my chosen school for everything incl first exam attempts and so on. Pay as you go I've been advised to budget about 500 more incl books and misc bits and pieces like maps, maybe a headset,
NR - Ball park figure I've found is £1000
Hour Building - can vary massively depending what you're learning on / what you'll hour build with and if you hire from a club, buy a share and so on which is something I've just made a post about actually for myself using a club A/C for around 85/90hrs £8,000 roughly.
ATPL Theory - I plan on doing this distance learning if possible which comes in at around £2,000 BGS Via Bartolini Air.
CPL/IR/MEP - Now this is the tricky one, the IR alone can cost close to the amount for all 3 depending where you go to. From what I've looked at (wings alliance calculator). I hadn't heard of Diamond Flight Academy to be honest prior to reading your post. I plan on doing the CPL/IR/ME at Bartolini Air in Poland. at present its £15990 with the current exchange rate adding on around 1000 or so for accommodation, flight and incidentals like food
MCC/JOC - I haven't looked too much into this to be honest but from a quick search around 2400 up to 9000 at CTC
I have friends who have been modular and integrated both now with airlines incl the Qatar MPL via L3 and Thomson via modular. I had the opportunity to attempt to get a place on the EASYJET MPL but decided this was the better course of action.
Just as a side note and to be taken with a pinch of salt a friend of a friend who recently finished up a whitetail program at CTC has been excluded from applying to easy jet and wizz whilst there MPL/ATPL programs are open, despite being 'sold the hold pool dream' from day 1. I believe he interviewed at jet2 with no luck and is now considering freight / biz jet options. So I personally wouldn't spend a vast amount more just to be placed in a hold pool with a lot of other people and going down the pecking order over each subsequent month when the same can be achieved for less but thats just me.
If you do the CPL/IR/ME at Bartolini you get placed in their hold pool for Adria thus making an expensive AQC obsolete (in my opinion) another option which is something I've done myself is get a job with an airline in some capacity to get a foot in the door as it were. All in all if everything goes to plan my overall costs should be around £40,000 give or take £5,000
Hope this can help!
PPL costs can vary depending on an upfront payment for the entire cost vs pay as you fly. For example if I paid upfront for mine it would've been £8,300 at my chosen school for everything incl first exam attempts and so on. Pay as you go I've been advised to budget about 500 more incl books and misc bits and pieces like maps, maybe a headset,
NR - Ball park figure I've found is £1000
Hour Building - can vary massively depending what you're learning on / what you'll hour build with and if you hire from a club, buy a share and so on which is something I've just made a post about actually for myself using a club A/C for around 85/90hrs £8,000 roughly.
ATPL Theory - I plan on doing this distance learning if possible which comes in at around £2,000 BGS Via Bartolini Air.
CPL/IR/MEP - Now this is the tricky one, the IR alone can cost close to the amount for all 3 depending where you go to. From what I've looked at (wings alliance calculator). I hadn't heard of Diamond Flight Academy to be honest prior to reading your post. I plan on doing the CPL/IR/ME at Bartolini Air in Poland. at present its £15990 with the current exchange rate adding on around 1000 or so for accommodation, flight and incidentals like food
MCC/JOC - I haven't looked too much into this to be honest but from a quick search around 2400 up to 9000 at CTC
I have friends who have been modular and integrated both now with airlines incl the Qatar MPL via L3 and Thomson via modular. I had the opportunity to attempt to get a place on the EASYJET MPL but decided this was the better course of action.
Just as a side note and to be taken with a pinch of salt a friend of a friend who recently finished up a whitetail program at CTC has been excluded from applying to easy jet and wizz whilst there MPL/ATPL programs are open, despite being 'sold the hold pool dream' from day 1. I believe he interviewed at jet2 with no luck and is now considering freight / biz jet options. So I personally wouldn't spend a vast amount more just to be placed in a hold pool with a lot of other people and going down the pecking order over each subsequent month when the same can be achieved for less but thats just me.
If you do the CPL/IR/ME at Bartolini you get placed in their hold pool for Adria thus making an expensive AQC obsolete (in my opinion) another option which is something I've done myself is get a job with an airline in some capacity to get a foot in the door as it were. All in all if everything goes to plan my overall costs should be around £40,000 give or take £5,000
Hope this can help!
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Looking for thoughts and advice on the following options I am considering:
EasyJet MPL - £109k - massive loan
Modular
PPL - £8,320 - Stapleford
NR - £950 - Stapleford
Hour Building - £11,000 - Stapleford
ATPL exams - £4,500 - BGS
CPL/ME/IR - £23,000 - Diamond
MCC/JOC - £9,000 - Wings Alliance/L3
Peripherals plus exams fees etc - £1,000
Total - £56,770
All with Bartolini
PPL - £7,900
NR - £1,025
Hour Building - £11,000
ATPL exams - £17,000
CPL/ME/IR - £9,000
Peripherals plus exams fees etc - £1,000
Accommodation - £4,000
Living Expenses - £3,000
MCC/JOC - £9,000
Total - £63,925
I am inclined to go with Bartolini as it is an all in one course, but am interested in people’s thoughts. Also I might be slightly overstating some of the costs, but that’s on the basis it’s prudent to budget like that.
EasyJet MPL - £109k - massive loan
Modular
PPL - £8,320 - Stapleford
NR - £950 - Stapleford
Hour Building - £11,000 - Stapleford
ATPL exams - £4,500 - BGS
CPL/ME/IR - £23,000 - Diamond
MCC/JOC - £9,000 - Wings Alliance/L3
Peripherals plus exams fees etc - £1,000
Total - £56,770
All with Bartolini
PPL - £7,900
NR - £1,025
Hour Building - £11,000
ATPL exams - £17,000
CPL/ME/IR - £9,000
Peripherals plus exams fees etc - £1,000
Accommodation - £4,000
Living Expenses - £3,000
MCC/JOC - £9,000
Total - £63,925
I am inclined to go with Bartolini as it is an all in one course, but am interested in people’s thoughts. Also I might be slightly overstating some of the costs, but that’s on the basis it’s prudent to budget like that.
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The first modular route looks good to me (don't want to put all your eggs in one basket like in the second route - might as well do integrated I'd say).
And regarding the Easy loan - unless you are able to fund a significant amount out of your pocket I would not recommending taking out such a big loan, especially with no guarantees at the end.
And regarding the Easy loan - unless you are able to fund a significant amount out of your pocket I would not recommending taking out such a big loan, especially with no guarantees at the end.
FAA PPL 40 hours (includes night rating) one month - £5000
45 hours hour building, 2 weeks - £2500
40 hours IR training, one month - £5100
45 hours hour building, 2 weeks (to include 35 hours IFR) - £2500
Flights - £500
3 months accommodation and car hire £3000 (you would pay for meals anyway)
Visa/flight tests - £1000 US COST: £19,600
=======================
Atpl distance learning course - CATS - £1500
Exams. - £1000
=======================
EASA PPL - £1000 (to hang your CBIR on because you want to do that first)
MEP training (you don’t need to take the test) - £3000
CBIR (10 hours multi) - £6000
CPL (15 hours Arrow) - £4000 UK COST: £16,500
Total spend: £36,100 plus your choice of MCC
45 hours hour building, 2 weeks - £2500
40 hours IR training, one month - £5100
45 hours hour building, 2 weeks (to include 35 hours IFR) - £2500
Flights - £500
3 months accommodation and car hire £3000 (you would pay for meals anyway)
Visa/flight tests - £1000 US COST: £19,600
=======================
Atpl distance learning course - CATS - £1500
Exams. - £1000
=======================
EASA PPL - £1000 (to hang your CBIR on because you want to do that first)
MEP training (you don’t need to take the test) - £3000
CBIR (10 hours multi) - £6000
CPL (15 hours Arrow) - £4000 UK COST: £16,500
Total spend: £36,100 plus your choice of MCC
Those were actual figures from flying academy (one of the first ones that cane up in Google) - I converted to GBP and rounded up. Hour building rates from fast time building. There's no point converting a CPL, but a CBIR will save a fortune.
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Been doing a lot of reading on the forums over the last 2 years regarding ATPL ground school and Modular vs Integrated. Myself like many others can't fathom paying upwards of 100k when people who pay half of that figure end up in the same job. I have applied to integrated schemes run by OAA, FTEJ etc. I even got to the last stage of one with Flybe for the MPL course. When I look back, I am glad things worked out the way they did.
The best small bit of advice I can give as someone who has finished his planning to go ahead with modular training and has enrolled on ATPL ground school is this. Microsoft Excel. Create a master spread sheet and spend hours if not days looking online for training providers and match it up with accommodation, materials, flights, living cost and put it all into a easy to look at spreadsheet format etc. It gives you options and can always be edited or updated. Time is your friend when you are not already in debt. get yourself inspired for the journey. I now have a plan that if all goes well may end in a job for roughly 67K. Not the cheapest figure but it does account for a potential job that I have a good chance of getting an interview for should my flying abilities be at the best standard they can be and my exams all good passes.
Incase anyone was wondering what mines kinda looks like, I shall put most of it below.
CAA Class One Medical
£450-£500
(I already hold a Class 2 for my PPL and have no health issues to date)
ATPL exams -CAPT Ground School Course(Inc exams, equipment)
£2600
(It's a distance learning course but I luckily have a CAA exam centre 5 mins from my house and the classroom learning is also done 5 mins from my home)
Hour Building - Fly in Spain (75h PIC flying inc flights&accom)
£11000
(not the cheapest option but it's in european airspace which my PPL covers and provides good flying weather and a shorter time scale for completion)
ME/IR/CPL - Diamond Flight Academy (inc flights and accommodation)
£23189
(This school looks really impressive. The Instructors, accommodation and the aircraft all get great reviews and hype. Definitely worth looking into. I was sold at the word DA42NG and someone else online saying some of the instructors worked for Diamond designing the aircraft and have invaluable tips and knowledge.)
MCC/JOC - Simtech, Dublin
£4026 (Inc accommodation/flights)
(anyone wanting to go Ryanair should look this school up. A lot of placements with FR and it's in Dublin... No need to say any more) -
Ryanair Type Rating Scheme
£26k (converted from price in euros)
(I actually happen to currently work for FR so having friends and colleagues where I want to be is something I am very fortunate to have. Anyone who is 18+ and looking to become an airline pilot should look for seasonal work on check-in desks at your local international airport. Best move I ever did at 18 and it sure beats working on a shop floor when you can be gaining crucial airline ground experience which proves invaluable for interviews and CV's I have been told by numerous interviewers and pilots.)
Finally, Good luck Guys and Gals on the same boat as me! Wish everyone the best of luck with training
The best small bit of advice I can give as someone who has finished his planning to go ahead with modular training and has enrolled on ATPL ground school is this. Microsoft Excel. Create a master spread sheet and spend hours if not days looking online for training providers and match it up with accommodation, materials, flights, living cost and put it all into a easy to look at spreadsheet format etc. It gives you options and can always be edited or updated. Time is your friend when you are not already in debt. get yourself inspired for the journey. I now have a plan that if all goes well may end in a job for roughly 67K. Not the cheapest figure but it does account for a potential job that I have a good chance of getting an interview for should my flying abilities be at the best standard they can be and my exams all good passes.
Incase anyone was wondering what mines kinda looks like, I shall put most of it below.
CAA Class One Medical
£450-£500
(I already hold a Class 2 for my PPL and have no health issues to date)
ATPL exams -CAPT Ground School Course(Inc exams, equipment)
£2600
(It's a distance learning course but I luckily have a CAA exam centre 5 mins from my house and the classroom learning is also done 5 mins from my home)
Hour Building - Fly in Spain (75h PIC flying inc flights&accom)
£11000
(not the cheapest option but it's in european airspace which my PPL covers and provides good flying weather and a shorter time scale for completion)
ME/IR/CPL - Diamond Flight Academy (inc flights and accommodation)
£23189
(This school looks really impressive. The Instructors, accommodation and the aircraft all get great reviews and hype. Definitely worth looking into. I was sold at the word DA42NG and someone else online saying some of the instructors worked for Diamond designing the aircraft and have invaluable tips and knowledge.)
MCC/JOC - Simtech, Dublin
£4026 (Inc accommodation/flights)
(anyone wanting to go Ryanair should look this school up. A lot of placements with FR and it's in Dublin... No need to say any more) -
Ryanair Type Rating Scheme
£26k (converted from price in euros)
(I actually happen to currently work for FR so having friends and colleagues where I want to be is something I am very fortunate to have. Anyone who is 18+ and looking to become an airline pilot should look for seasonal work on check-in desks at your local international airport. Best move I ever did at 18 and it sure beats working on a shop floor when you can be gaining crucial airline ground experience which proves invaluable for interviews and CV's I have been told by numerous interviewers and pilots.)
Finally, Good luck Guys and Gals on the same boat as me! Wish everyone the best of luck with training