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Old 13th May 2018 | 18:21
  #821 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
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From: N/A
It’s true that Diamond and Bartolini are focused solely on the CPL IR-ME, and are not a ‘jack of all trades’.
But with so many options open to people, as to the type of hour building and training completed to date.
Then how can their be any consistency to the type and quantity of training required.
Everybody would be on a ‘train to proficiency’ regiment.

I have met people with no more than basic primary VFR trainer experience, to people who have flown all over the Continent in company aircraft.
The amount of time difference needed was immense .

I don’t claim or profess to know all.
I’m just trying to avoid mistakes for those I try to help.
Atlantic and Fly in Spain are also on my recommended list.

But where to go?
Well thats the million dollar question.
There is no correct answer.
Just wrong ones.
And wrong ones have advertisements.

Just go do it as soon as possible.

Last edited by button push ignored; 14th May 2018 at 13:58.
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Old 25th May 2018 | 10:09
  #822 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 10
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From: Liverpool
Could someone be so kind as to give a ball park price for modular training zero hours I was hoping it could be done for £50k. Any insight would be hugely appreciated many thanks sf85
Scouseflier85 is offline  
Old 25th May 2018 | 19:45
  #823 (permalink)  
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3
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From: High Wycombe
Originally Posted by Jaair
1. Do bigger European airlines still consider pilots who went the modular route?
Definitely. Ryanair, Jet2 and Flybe to name a few.

2. Will airlines still consider me, even if I did 'fail' half of my ATPLs at first attempt all those years ago?
Good question, but I thought ATPL results 'expire' after a few years if you haven't finished the course? But to answer the question, it depends on the airline as some may be picky. I believe Ryanair allow 2 fails, but I am basing that on something I heard a few months ago. Note that ATPL fails are merely a form of reducing the CV pile size. A bad set of ATPL results does not mean that the candidate is a bad pilot as I've heard there's a lot of crap needed to be learnt as well as ambiguous exam questions.

I would never let that be a deciding factor as to whether or not to start training. If you are determined and have the passion then worry not, you will eventually be flying for a living. It may not be within a week, month or year after graduating but if you stay within aviation and don't give up then you will eventually find yourself in the RHS.

3. Are the theoretical elements possible through distance learning (e.g. ground school)?
Yes, e.g. BGS. Search around PPRune to find lots of people having done their ATPL while married with kids and working a full time job. A lot of them are also now flying.

4. Is modular the way to go in my situation? Any other route that can be done ‘part-time'?
Pretty sure most integrated schools are full time. So if you want to do it all part-time then modular would definitely be the way. With the current pilot forecast for the next 2 decades it seems like pilots will be in much greater demand. Some people have mentioned that there has been a decrease in demand over the past 12 months but it could be explained by the sudden supply of pilots from Monarch/Air Berlin.

5. What schools are recommended within easy reach of London (especially for the PPL)? I’m willing to travel up to 2 hours by train - no problem - so long as the school is reputable and my qualifications respected as I continue doing the licences/courses.

6. Any other input is much appreciated
I got my PPL a few years ago and starting my ATPL in summer after graduating from University. Would be happy to keep in touch with you or anyone else who reads this so feel free to shoot me a PM. We all have the same goal here.
Hey hows it going. Can't PM you, I think its cos I'm a new user.

I'm going Uni this year, hoping to do PPL during 2-3 year of uni, and was wondering to complete my PPL earlier and leave it for a year or two before beginning my ATPL.. Did that affect what you've already learnt during your PPL as I assume ATPL would be a building block to the PPL or would u recommend doing all modular courses back to back, as I'm impatient to learn to fly asap. Thanks
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Old 17th June 2018 | 11:21
  #824 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Jun 2018
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From: Riga
Anyone know any reputable schools in the north of England?
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Old 18th June 2018 | 14:00
  #825 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Apr 2018
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From: Newcastle
reputable schools in the north of England..

have a look at pptaviation it seem like a good school, myself am planning to enroll on their full time modular course.
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Old 18th June 2018 | 16:39
  #826 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Jun 2018
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From: Riga
Originally Posted by Chani
have a look at pptaviation it seem like a good school, myself am planning to enroll on their full time modular course.
Thank you. I'm also looking at doing it in Sweden (I started a contract here recently). Honestly, I'd prefer not to live in Blighty, however, if I have to move there to train, it'll be nowhere near London.
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Old 19th June 2018 | 13:24
  #827 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Jun 2018
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From: Peterborough, UK
Flight Schools

Hi all....

I am currently looking into begin pilot training next Spring.

I've been looking into various routes (modular vs integrated) and different flight schools. I'm minded to go for theab initio ATPL (not affiliated with any particular airline). I'm leaning towards this as opposed to modular as I'd like to get the training done in one hit. I have a wife and young children to support, so can't be out of work too long, and want to give the training my full attention rather than trying to do it alongside a day job. I can't afford to go on an airline affiliated ab initio ATPL, and from what I've read, you're paying nearly double for not a lot more.

I've found three potential flight schools so far that are around, or close to my limited budget, and I'm wondering if anyone has experience or knowledge of these. In rough order of preference, these are:

1) Aviation Career Centre - Slovenia
2) OneAir - Malaga
3) PTT Aviation

Can anyone recommend any other schools that provide EASA training, and where I could get to a frozen ATPL for approximately £60k? If outside of the UK, then I'll also need to factor in location as the family will hopefully temporarily relocate with me.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

ab_initio_Richard is offline  
Old 19th June 2018 | 19:46
  #828 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 8
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From: Lancashire
Smile Budding Commercial Pilot, nearly 16

Hi,
I am new to these forums, but I've been researching for many months now.
I have just finished my GCSEs and I have the entire summer to look deeper into my dream career. At the moment I have firm eyes on short-haul international flights with a selection of British airlines (EasyJet, Thomas Cook, Jet2, TUI and Ryanair). I see the various licence types CPL, ATPL etc and I have looked at various training centres within the UK. Now after speaking to Pilot George, I have learnt that it is best to stick with popular training centres due to their Airline Links. With L3 I think that the training bond solution is good although I suspect only BA and EasyJet are actually committed to paying the bond back to me once employed. I also choose L3 over CAE due to the financing, L3 goes through Optimum Finance and CAE goes through Pegasus. Borrowing £96,800 and £90,000 respectively from either finance partner shows that L3 is considerably more affordable. Paying £96,800 over 25 years at 4.9% works out at £560 per month in comparison to £90,000 over 10 years (maximum duration) at 7.9%, ending up with £1,087.20 per month, almost double the amount per month. So let's say I go with L3, I have a variety of courses to choose from, personally, I would go for an integrated APTL due to the range of airline employers rather than limiting myself to a set career with BA or EasyJet. So paying £560 per month seems affordable, would it be worthwhile saving £15,000 prior to starting the course to cover the loan repayments when I'm training and the first 6-9 months after leaving training (the period of time to find my first airline job)? Once I have landed my first job then I can cover the repayments for certain, I will also have to think about transportation once I land my first job (I am planning on saving money by not getting a car whilst I am training).
So thank you for reading, I just have a few questions in mind -
  • Am I eligible for student finance?
  • Are my repayment forecasts correct?
  • How can I prepare over the next two years for my training?
I have various spreadsheets and documents where I have accumulated a wealth of information for various courses, jobs and opportunities. I believe that I am extremely passionate about my future in the aviation industry, this is pushing me forward along with my academic ability whilst money is pulling me back.
Thank you very much for your attention
AdamQuinny is offline  
Old 20th June 2018 | 07:17
  #829 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 18
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From: Croatia
I'm training in Aviation Career Center for the past year now... came here with 1/2 PPL already done, finished the PPL, started ATPL & HB and now I'm on IR. I wasn't familiar with them but the price was very reasonable for me so I took my chance and I don't regret it. Guys are very flexible and helpful, training is progressing quickly (one student was in hurry and just finished IR in one month), airport is very nice - international but no traffic , a lot of attention is given on student's independence (especially on HB)... except the Slovenian CAA is a bit slow and you have to push them a bit
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Old 20th June 2018 | 09:40
  #830 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
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From: Dubai
Originally Posted by ab_initio_Richard
Hi all....

I am currently looking into begin pilot training next Spring.
.
Hi Richard - why not make a start on your PPL now whilst you’re still working ? You should comfortably have it out of the way by next spring if you start it this summer.

As well as telling you if flying really is for you, doing it this way will also mean you’ll need less time off work when you start training full time.
Basil Fawlty1 is offline  
Old 20th June 2018 | 09:52
  #831 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 7
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From: Riga
Unhappy

Originally Posted by Chani
have a look at pptaviation it seem like a good school, myself am planning to enroll on their full time modular course.

I called PPT and they are charging 10k for a PPL. Surely there are more competitive options in the North of Engerland? I was recently told you'd get one for 8k
Wandering Paddy is offline  
Old 20th June 2018 | 20:54
  #832 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 11
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From: The Netherlands
Originally Posted by Wandering Paddy
I called PPT and they are charging 10k for a PPL. Surely there are more competitive options in the North of Engerland? I was recently told you'd get one for 8k
Lol where I live it's 14-16K Euro's MINIMUM hours including class 1 initial, LPE, RT, exam fees and license fees.
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Old 20th June 2018 | 21:07
  #833 (permalink)  
 
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60
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From: EGNT
Hi Adam,
It's nice to see how passionate you are.
First things first get you class 1 medical. It should be the very first thing you consider, because without it a commercial flying career is a non starter!
I've just turned 21 and I've been researching flight training since the age of 18 once I finished my A-Levels. Within that time I've changed my mind between modular and integrated training dozens of times. I sat an assessment for CAE Oxford. I was quite optimistic that I would stroll out of training into the right hand seat of an A320 and if I'm perfectly honest I probably could have. Easyjet was hiring waves upon waves of fresh cadets from CTC, CAE and FTE. I looked at my finances exactly the same way you are right now. 'If I cut this cost I can save this, If I don't do this I can afford this.' It turned out that parents were willing to help me fund my training. They relied on my proposal to them about the way the market was. It would of been very very tight but it was doable. I made a mature decision to not go ahead with that route. I don't think I would of been able to handle my training knowing that once I walk out the doors the crippling debt will swallow myself and my family home if I didn't secure that job fairly quickly. I started working on the ground for Jet2 the same year and got speaking to a pilot apprentice that was about to start his type rating on the 737NG. He'd paid 40,000 for his training. Don't be too quick to turn your nose up at the modular route. If money is an issue you will get the exact same piece of paper as an integrated student would. Airlines now do not care what your training background is aslong as you have a strong record with good results and first time passes. I mean look at Easyjet, the one airline who notoriously only recruit intergrated cadets opened up places for cadets from any training back ground and look at Ryanair who have just reduced their type rating bond!

I'm mid PPL now, flying 4 times per week all paid for by working, looking at moving straight onto the ATPLs after, with some hours building done in the north of England. A kind FO at Jet2 has a share in a Cessna he's looking to sell. Looking to have my full training done in the next 2 years!
Honestly Adam, you're only 15 mate so research every possible thing you can, build a network do some PPL flying and you'll thank yourself later!!


Last edited by Maverick97; 21st June 2018 at 06:43.
Maverick97 is offline  
Old 21st June 2018 | 06:43
  #834 (permalink)  
 
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60
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From: EGNT
Originally Posted by Wandering Paddy
I called PPT and they are charging 10k for a PPL. Surely there are more competitive options in the North of Engerland? I was recently told you'd get one for 8k
Hi mate,

its quite expensive at Newcastle,
£25 per landing too.

Try Teeside, PTT have a base there but so does Eden flight training. They operate warriors and tomahawks.
You could probably do the PPL for around 7k in the tomahawk. Hourly rates including landing and touch and go fees and are by far the cheapest in the region, I know a guy that’s doing his LAPL at Eshott with the intention to convert it to a PPL, don’t know much about that but there’s another option too?
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Old 21st June 2018 | 09:18
  #835 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 7
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From: Riga
Originally Posted by Maverick97


Hi mate,

its quite expensive at Newcastle,
£25 per landing too.

Try Teeside, PTT have a base there but so does Eden flight training. They operate warriors and tomahawks.
You could probably do the PPL for around 7k in the tomahawk. Hourly rates including landing and touch and go fees and are by far the cheapest in the region, I know a guy that’s doing his LAPL at Eshott with the intention to convert it to a PPL, don’t know much about that but there’s another option too?
Cheers. I was hoping to get a school around Liverpool, Leeds, Manchester area. That way I can work, and train on my off days. Teeside may be a bit far.
Wandering Paddy is offline  
Old 21st June 2018 | 17:13
  #836 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2
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From: Peterborough, UK
Originally Posted by Basil Fawlty1


Hi Richard - why not make a start on your PPL now whilst you’re still working ? You should comfortably have it out of the way by next spring if you start it this summer.

As well as telling you if flying really is for you, doing it this way will also mean you’ll need less time off work when you start training full time.
Hi Basil. May well do. There is a flight school ten minutes down the road. If it goes smoothly I can do a PPL for about £8k. I'm off there on Saturday for a taster session, so hopefully all goes well.

Could then do the remaining licences in Slovenia, learning to fly between the Alps and the Adriatic sounds very appealing!

Any thoughts on whether Brexit will create an issue with EASA licences, and will they need converting to UK CAA equivalent? If so, would this likely just be a paperwork exercise?
ab_initio_Richard is offline  
Old 22nd June 2018 | 09:18
  #837 (permalink)  
 
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60
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From: EGNT
Originally Posted by Wandering Paddy
Cheers. I was hoping to get a school around Liverpool, Leeds, Manchester area. That way I can work, and train on my off days. Teeside may be a bit far.
Apologies, my stubborn northern mind set only assuming north means anything above Yorkshire...
Maverick97 is offline  
Old 22nd June 2018 | 11:57
  #838 (permalink)  
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,970
Likes: 326
From: Hong Kong
Actually 'the north' is anything above Bristol...
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Old 23rd June 2018 | 15:03
  #839 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 8
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From: Lancashire
Hi J,
Thanks a lot for taking the time to help me out it is greatly appreciated. Like you I did turn down the modular option before but I still think that it wouldn't be as smooth as the integrated routes. Today my girlfriend was flying to Italy and she sent me a video of her walking across the tarmac to the plane and within me, I just felt a rush of excitement and I would love to wake up and experience that feeling every single day.

I've seen this Jet2 apprenticeship scheme before, I don't fully understand it, it talks about learning all about Jet2 but then it's called 'pilot apprenticeship' so do you end up with an MPL? CPL? ATPL? How much would an introductory lesson be? I've learnt that a PPL is a good kickstarter so would this be a good idea - Finish A-Levels --> PPL --> Get a job --> keep applying for modular and integrated courses whilst still working --> pause/stop work if accepted to a course ?
Thanks.
AdamQuinny is offline  
Old 23rd June 2018 | 20:21
  #840 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
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From: N/A


The important word here is SCHEME, and most airlines have them.
I wouldn’t waste my time with any of them.
And time is your most valuable asset.

Pilots fly their aircraft.
They are not there to learn every facet of the company.
I don’t want to live, breath and sleep the brand.
Just earn a decent living doing it.

If you want to fly.
Then just go on a do it.
Forget all this marketing hype.
Just resolve yourself to fly or learn more about flying everyday.
And in good time you will become a pilot.

Somebody with a PPL is a pilot.
An assistant flight instructor is a professional pilot.
All have my respect.
Somebody who just fills out applications and attends interviews and selection processs.
Well, they are just kind of missing the whole point.
Pilots fly planes.

Start with a PPL.
And stop worrying about all those SCHEMES.

You use use the term ‘applying’ for modular and intergrated courses.
Adam.
They are running a business, not a charity.
You are paying with your family’s money.
You are the boss.
Get in the drivers seat and take control of your destiny.

I’m thrilled that you are 15 and want to do this.
Well done, that’s half the battle of life won.


Last edited by button push ignored; 23rd June 2018 at 22:57.
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