Growing Evidence That The Upturn Is Upon Us
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Topslide.....good post!
A large part of the problem is the MP's themselves.....until they can see beyond their snouts then they won't ever take them out of the £95m trough being provided by the tax payers each year. Regardless of which party you think will be best to sort this mess out, politicians are pigs in a trough and that's been firmly re-enforced by the by this whole expense's and allowances row.
This country is on it's knee's but we're still paying for MP's second homes to be furnished with LCD TV's and £1000 rugs etc. It's a shameful disgrace that this is allowed to go on when every other bugger is struggling to make ends meet and greedy Gordon, together with his pet Darling, continue to systematically piss away what little is left.
Anyway, this isn't a political soapbox for me but it bloody infuriates me when I'm struggling to pay the bills but MP's and other civil servants continue to live the high life at my expense!!! grrrrrrrr
A large part of the problem is the MP's themselves.....until they can see beyond their snouts then they won't ever take them out of the £95m trough being provided by the tax payers each year. Regardless of which party you think will be best to sort this mess out, politicians are pigs in a trough and that's been firmly re-enforced by the by this whole expense's and allowances row.
This country is on it's knee's but we're still paying for MP's second homes to be furnished with LCD TV's and £1000 rugs etc. It's a shameful disgrace that this is allowed to go on when every other bugger is struggling to make ends meet and greedy Gordon, together with his pet Darling, continue to systematically piss away what little is left.
Anyway, this isn't a political soapbox for me but it bloody infuriates me when I'm struggling to pay the bills but MP's and other civil servants continue to live the high life at my expense!!! grrrrrrrr
dublin green technology is great but tell me this who is currently buying cars and other big ticket items? Have you not noticed that no can get credit at the moment? Fundamentally no one will but these things when they are worried about losing there job which is a large portion of the population now!
Don't get me started on green tech though - where does all this lovely electricity for our electric cars come from?? Thats right Coal and oil, great green tech that.. but thats another forum and more evidence of ol Gordo and his cronies taxing the living crap out of us al al pax tax. Gotta save those greenie terrorists from working you know!
I understand where you are coming from in hoping it is better than it sounds (I do as well, bills to pay etc) but tell me this, name the airlines recruiting now in large numbers apart from RYR? Most airlines are looking to reduce hours of crew or lay people off -monarch has just let 50 staff go from the front office and engineering, BA offering unpaid leave along with CX and QF, and Virgin imposing pay freezes on staff. The big boys in the gulf and asia have pretty much stopped recruiting as well.
Me personally I'm in the hold pool for two airlines and have been told that nothing till at least the end of the year, and more likely 2010! Not the signs of an upturn is it?
Don't get me started on green tech though - where does all this lovely electricity for our electric cars come from?? Thats right Coal and oil, great green tech that.. but thats another forum and more evidence of ol Gordo and his cronies taxing the living crap out of us al al pax tax. Gotta save those greenie terrorists from working you know!
I understand where you are coming from in hoping it is better than it sounds (I do as well, bills to pay etc) but tell me this, name the airlines recruiting now in large numbers apart from RYR? Most airlines are looking to reduce hours of crew or lay people off -monarch has just let 50 staff go from the front office and engineering, BA offering unpaid leave along with CX and QF, and Virgin imposing pay freezes on staff. The big boys in the gulf and asia have pretty much stopped recruiting as well.
Me personally I'm in the hold pool for two airlines and have been told that nothing till at least the end of the year, and more likely 2010! Not the signs of an upturn is it?
Last edited by Rhodes13; 29th Jan 2009 at 19:32.
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Topslide6,
My apologies, I was unaware we were committed to a sense of humour failure in this topic, I shall change my perspective immediately!
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p.s. Flying Squid, have you only just noticed that? Perhaps you'd be interested to know the only place you may legally smoke indoors now be the Houses of Parliament. Chip on my shoulder I haven't, head out of the sand it is.
My apologies, I was unaware we were committed to a sense of humour failure in this topic, I shall change my perspective immediately!
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p.s. Flying Squid, have you only just noticed that? Perhaps you'd be interested to know the only place you may legally smoke indoors now be the Houses of Parliament. Chip on my shoulder I haven't, head out of the sand it is.
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Last time i checked we vote for the party not the person, i also know why i'm against fox hunting. Getting rid of Labour is not going to solve anything either and i'm sure the Conservatives would not have a hope in hell of reducing the effect of this recession, they just want to seem to do nothing.
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It came from my head, not just a pretty face you know. Although i would be interested in reading wherever you got the idea that Gordon Brown is Communist......sounds like a right laugh.
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Rhodes13,
I get what you're saying but I hate the way that when something positive is mentioned on this forum you're seen as some lunny that doesn't get the problems that have arisen. What makes me laugh and makes me want to post on this forum are the people who come out phrases like 'hell on earth' and 'meltdown'. I simply don't think that's going to happen. Things are bad; I know that. But there's a difference between pragmatism and dramatism. Personally, I feel I fall under pragmatism. Laughably, a lot here fall under dramatism!
Btw, to answer your question about big ticket items being bought.... Nobody! Here in Ireland we have the year at the start of our car registration plates. I haven't seen one 09 yet! But, I'd say the first year of a downturn is always the worst.... Confidence will return, eventually...
I get what you're saying but I hate the way that when something positive is mentioned on this forum you're seen as some lunny that doesn't get the problems that have arisen. What makes me laugh and makes me want to post on this forum are the people who come out phrases like 'hell on earth' and 'meltdown'. I simply don't think that's going to happen. Things are bad; I know that. But there's a difference between pragmatism and dramatism. Personally, I feel I fall under pragmatism. Laughably, a lot here fall under dramatism!
Btw, to answer your question about big ticket items being bought.... Nobody! Here in Ireland we have the year at the start of our car registration plates. I haven't seen one 09 yet! But, I'd say the first year of a downturn is always the worst.... Confidence will return, eventually...
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Reluctant737 - Nope I've known for years of the unprecedented and shameful glutiny of politicians at our expense. However in my lifetime I've never been old enough to appreciate the har****ies of a real economic down turn, let alone one as big as this. At times like these it just makes me realise how bad they all are. When they should all be pulling together to get us out of this mess they're busy squabbling in the house of commons. I watched them yesterday lunchtime and to be honest it made me sick.....all they can do is stand there and take cheap shots at eachother with their smug grins each time they receive appluase from the rest of the house. Meanwhile I was sat there going through the bill's. Nice!
Labour have spent the money, there's none left. No party that come into power can wave a magic wand. Make yourself comfy, we're here for the long term chaps!
Labour have spent the money, there's none left. No party that come into power can wave a magic wand. Make yourself comfy, we're here for the long term chaps!
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I hear that buddy - let us not forget that life is a wonderful thing, and it's truly saddening to see so many people wasting it away worrying about the worlds problems, complaining to one another, always trying to get one up on the other guy...
I have what I consider to be a 'cushy jet job' - many people would not consider it so, but the background I come from dictates my nature in such a way that I can only see it as such.
The truth is, I may switch the news on tomorrow and find out my airline's gone into administration - now if I thought about that all the time, I would worry constantly, and it's for that reason I block off some semblance of reality to the fragile existence that is this career.
But do you know what? I don't care about the economic downturn, it doesn't affect me as I sit here now, it doesn't prevent me from putting food in my plate, taking air into my lungs, nor will it affect my plans to visit my family for the first time in two months next week. And for the time being, I'm still flying people around Europe and getting paid for doing so.
We're only human, and this recession is only the result of what humans higher in the food chain have created for us. What does this constant bicker create? Does it solve our problems? No it does not - we all have to sleep in one big bed, all one can do is make the best of what we do have, and put aside for now what we don't have.
Whatever your problems are, there is always somebody else who has things a hundred times harder - I'm sure there are many people in Gaza as we speak who would happily exchange places with the most hard done by moaner on this website.
So hey, don't worry, be happy.
p.s. Philosophising the world is a general effect alcohol has on me, nothing is intended as being personal
I have what I consider to be a 'cushy jet job' - many people would not consider it so, but the background I come from dictates my nature in such a way that I can only see it as such.
The truth is, I may switch the news on tomorrow and find out my airline's gone into administration - now if I thought about that all the time, I would worry constantly, and it's for that reason I block off some semblance of reality to the fragile existence that is this career.
But do you know what? I don't care about the economic downturn, it doesn't affect me as I sit here now, it doesn't prevent me from putting food in my plate, taking air into my lungs, nor will it affect my plans to visit my family for the first time in two months next week. And for the time being, I'm still flying people around Europe and getting paid for doing so.
We're only human, and this recession is only the result of what humans higher in the food chain have created for us. What does this constant bicker create? Does it solve our problems? No it does not - we all have to sleep in one big bed, all one can do is make the best of what we do have, and put aside for now what we don't have.
Whatever your problems are, there is always somebody else who has things a hundred times harder - I'm sure there are many people in Gaza as we speak who would happily exchange places with the most hard done by moaner on this website.
So hey, don't worry, be happy.
p.s. Philosophising the world is a general effect alcohol has on me, nothing is intended as being personal
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Flying Squid,
Just to reiterate, I wasn't trying to get one on you in my post above, and I agree with your sentiments above entirely. So they're still at it are they? I haven't watched the 'parliament program' in a few months now, but it sounds pretty similar to what I experienced last time.
Disgusting.
But hey, my career may be cut shorter by something other than an economic recession if I let these problems raise my blood pressure! However, if I don't come across for whatever reason as being able to relate to what you're saying, I assure you sir, I do.
Just to reiterate, I wasn't trying to get one on you in my post above, and I agree with your sentiments above entirely. So they're still at it are they? I haven't watched the 'parliament program' in a few months now, but it sounds pretty similar to what I experienced last time.
Disgusting.
But hey, my career may be cut shorter by something other than an economic recession if I let these problems raise my blood pressure! However, if I don't come across for whatever reason as being able to relate to what you're saying, I assure you sir, I do.
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Reluctant737 - Ah I know you weren't having a pop mate. It's just funny how the parliament program shows them for what they really are.
As you say, it's disgusting. However as you also very correctly point out, I'll not be letting it raise the old bloody pressure too much. Hard to sit here paying the bill's and keeping a calm head when I see it though. Morons!
Anyway, I'm off to the gym....the punch bag is getting a pretty raw deal at the moment!lol.
FS
As you say, it's disgusting. However as you also very correctly point out, I'll not be letting it raise the old bloody pressure too much. Hard to sit here paying the bill's and keeping a calm head when I see it though. Morons!
Anyway, I'm off to the gym....the punch bag is getting a pretty raw deal at the moment!lol.
FS
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"and part of the scam is forcing people to believe we're in trouble"
I think that the situation is incredibly serious, but I am coming to the conclusion that the constant doom and gloom in the media is getting a bit much.
The powers that be need to control us somehow, this is the preferred choice at the moment IMO.
The phrase "war on terror" hasn't been mentioned for months.
I think that the situation is incredibly serious, but I am coming to the conclusion that the constant doom and gloom in the media is getting a bit much.
The powers that be need to control us somehow, this is the preferred choice at the moment IMO.
The phrase "war on terror" hasn't been mentioned for months.
Very true Blindside. Every night I watch the news at 10 and its all doom and gloom. I think confidence of consumers is very much affected by the media and they certainly aren't helping! OK, the economy is not in the best state but the continual talking it down surely can't be helping.
In other negative news I read today Bill Gates predicts the downturn to last for years rather than months. Who knows though, all we hear is prediction after prediction and they seem to change by the day. The only thing we know for sure is economy's can not continue to grow indefinitely, with record growth each year and record profits from companies. It had to stop somehow it's just going from 100 - 0 very quickly!
All we can do is our best, keep things in perspective and trust that things will stabilise, eventually!
In other negative news I read today Bill Gates predicts the downturn to last for years rather than months. Who knows though, all we hear is prediction after prediction and they seem to change by the day. The only thing we know for sure is economy's can not continue to grow indefinitely, with record growth each year and record profits from companies. It had to stop somehow it's just going from 100 - 0 very quickly!
All we can do is our best, keep things in perspective and trust that things will stabilise, eventually!
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I often wonder about the psychologogical effects of the media.
Being a teacher, we are made aware of the importance having a positive attitude when teaching. This is no different from the medias role in educating us. After all, when it comes to world economics, most of us are students!
I don't doubt there are serious financial problems in the world just now, you would be have to be rather silly to disagree.
It would, however, be interesting to see the short term effects on spending if the media started reporting that things were looking rosy in the garden of economics.
I have to be honest, I have not felt any effects of the recession yet, in fact, I have more money in my hands each month now than I did a year ago, due to falling interest rates.
Before anyone starts, I know that thousands have lost, or are at risk of losing there jobs. But how much of this is affected by consumer confidence rather than a lack of money going round. It seems rather catch 22 to me, less confidence, less spending, less jobs.
I think humans, as a race, are rather prone to the sheep philosophy of comfort in numbers, and right now the flock is heading towards a (necessary) adjusting of spending and more importantly, family values. I have lost count of the number of friends who have started talking about "material purchases are not as important as being together with their friends and family, that's what really matters" they say. The same people two years ago were more concerned with the size of their house ands how many cars sat in the driveway, THAT was status!
Whats the difference? Almost all of these friends have no less money, they are just scared that they are going to lose all their money, where does this come from? the media.
We are in a rather depressing cycle just now, but I do wonder about WWW's rather dark view of a new world order ruled by violence and anarchy, I would have to disagree. To use his own comparisons of WW2, If anyone has had the privilege of speaking with some of the brave soles who lived through this, they will tell you that , in a crisis we know how to come together and work as a collective. Many survivors talk fondly of the sense of community and spirit experienced in those hard, hard times.
I don't doubt, there will be increases in crime rates, some people will always choose to look after themselves at the costs of others, but lets not try and turn this into a "mad max" scenario where the world as we know ends.
So, in conclusion (and to to avoid too much thread creep). This will probably be a long recession, we will adjust our values again and concentrate our efforts on things that don't cost money, our children will actually benefit as we will spend more time with them rather spending more time spending money, the world will continue as normal with a slight increase in crime rates but a significant increase in family and community spirit. We will come out the other side and we will again start spending money we don't have.
And finally, there will be pilot jobs again
Regards D-G
Being a teacher, we are made aware of the importance having a positive attitude when teaching. This is no different from the medias role in educating us. After all, when it comes to world economics, most of us are students!
I don't doubt there are serious financial problems in the world just now, you would be have to be rather silly to disagree.
It would, however, be interesting to see the short term effects on spending if the media started reporting that things were looking rosy in the garden of economics.
I have to be honest, I have not felt any effects of the recession yet, in fact, I have more money in my hands each month now than I did a year ago, due to falling interest rates.
Before anyone starts, I know that thousands have lost, or are at risk of losing there jobs. But how much of this is affected by consumer confidence rather than a lack of money going round. It seems rather catch 22 to me, less confidence, less spending, less jobs.
I think humans, as a race, are rather prone to the sheep philosophy of comfort in numbers, and right now the flock is heading towards a (necessary) adjusting of spending and more importantly, family values. I have lost count of the number of friends who have started talking about "material purchases are not as important as being together with their friends and family, that's what really matters" they say. The same people two years ago were more concerned with the size of their house ands how many cars sat in the driveway, THAT was status!
Whats the difference? Almost all of these friends have no less money, they are just scared that they are going to lose all their money, where does this come from? the media.
We are in a rather depressing cycle just now, but I do wonder about WWW's rather dark view of a new world order ruled by violence and anarchy, I would have to disagree. To use his own comparisons of WW2, If anyone has had the privilege of speaking with some of the brave soles who lived through this, they will tell you that , in a crisis we know how to come together and work as a collective. Many survivors talk fondly of the sense of community and spirit experienced in those hard, hard times.
I don't doubt, there will be increases in crime rates, some people will always choose to look after themselves at the costs of others, but lets not try and turn this into a "mad max" scenario where the world as we know ends.
So, in conclusion (and to to avoid too much thread creep). This will probably be a long recession, we will adjust our values again and concentrate our efforts on things that don't cost money, our children will actually benefit as we will spend more time with them rather spending more time spending money, the world will continue as normal with a slight increase in crime rates but a significant increase in family and community spirit. We will come out the other side and we will again start spending money we don't have.
And finally, there will be pilot jobs again
Regards D-G
Last edited by Dane-Ger; 30th Jan 2009 at 22:17.
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Some really good comments here guys. The power of the media is massively underestimated. The grim financial situation that we're in cannot be ignored, but we have to wonder how much of it could have been avoided if the media didn't blow things out of proportion at the first sign of trouble. Take Northern Rock....totally mismanaged and left hanging on the edge.....so, the media come along the next day they have every reporter from here to the moon stood outside a local branch with a camera on a few people withdrawing their money. The day after that there are long queue's of people on the news withdrawing their money....what little working capital the bank had left has now been withdrawn over night and thats them done.
Im not blaming the media entirely for the NR situation, but the attitude and subsequent behaviour of people is often largely influenced by media and sadly it seems that the media are more interested in a good story than the economic welfare of the nation. Very sad.
Isn't it funny how the few strands of good news that exist aren't being reported on. Granted there are very few of them but surely that makes them more newsworthy???
Im not blaming the media entirely for the NR situation, but the attitude and subsequent behaviour of people is often largely influenced by media and sadly it seems that the media are more interested in a good story than the economic welfare of the nation. Very sad.
Isn't it funny how the few strands of good news that exist aren't being reported on. Granted there are very few of them but surely that makes them more newsworthy???
Dane-Ger, an excellent post. I can relate myself with regard to realising what is important in life. Only this morning on a walk back from the gym did I really look at a few basic things I have and realise how lucky I am. Perhaps being a poor student does make you become less materialistic, I certianly appreciate that money and things do not make you happy, relationships with friends and family do. Having a group of people come together to work towards a common goal, the rescue of our economy, is what we need to see. I think there is something to be said for when times are hard people are more likely to rally together for the common good. Of course, not everyone, but remember most people in society are generally good folk. It's a shame that negative stories sell newspapers and that is what gets reported.
I'd usually say that I focus on the negatives, but at the moment thats far too depressing to do! So I'm trying out a new way of thinking, long may it last. Although I may have to stop reading pprune so much, it does tend to be more negative than positive.
I'd usually say that I focus on the negatives, but at the moment thats far too depressing to do! So I'm trying out a new way of thinking, long may it last. Although I may have to stop reading pprune so much, it does tend to be more negative than positive.