Growing Evidence That The Upturn Is Upon Us
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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Take some damn responsibility for your own actions and stop whinging and blaming every other bugger, other than yourself, for YOUR failure to research the job market, and YOUR failure to get a job. I cannot believe that WWW is getting flak on this thread for not having predicted the future to the satisfaction of a few trainee pilots. This country is full of whining pu**ies!
So right, what you said. I honestly fear that we are starting to see the fruits of raising a generation of people who have never known failure or rejection. School sports that have no winners or losers. Exams at school that are so easy, an A is the norm. The first time that someone says "mate, you are not up to this" is an interview, and boy, it seems to be a shock.
Welcome to the real world, folks....
TA
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Does the Law Society make it clear that you can do all the exams you want, you may never become a barrister?
The advantage of many of these professions is that self employment is a possibility be it as an accountant, solicitor etc, where the skills and learning can be put to good use.
They are not one dimensional either. I employ a former bar student as a legal manager giving and they are probably earning more than they might as a junior. The skills can always be put to good use.
Unfortunately getting the pilot licences risks being one dimensional, with very little residual opportunities other than instructing (flight or ground).
The football analogy is a red herring. Most wannabe professional footballers get the chop by the time they are 16 and they have not forked out £70k in the process.
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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it is the Bar Council that qualifies barristers
But the point of my post was as TopSlide noted - much better than I did. If you want to chase your dreams, have a plan B, or risk suffering the consequences...
Most of the commercial pilots I know did something else first. Some ran their own businesses, one was a barrister, one a chartered accountant, one sold insurance, one was in IT. All of them would, I am quite sure, HATE to leave flying to go back to that, but the point is, they could - these activities helped pay for their training, and if it all went horribly wrong, they could go back to them and earn a living.
I would offer the following advice to anyone going into ANY profession that has a high degree of specialisation and risk - and I would add, that list includes professional pilot, professional footballer - ANYTHING that is so specialised that you are in an "all or nothing" scenario:
Have a fallback plan that will pay the bills if you don't make it, either at all, or straightaway.
If you don't, you are risking one helluva lot in chasing that dream...
TA
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TwinAisle
I would not disagree with you or Topslide and we are arguing the same points.
People who have had another career before aviation have a fall back and that is important.
Those who dont have a fallback have a problem when their chosen career is a one horse wonder with few in the way of transferable skills.
Is that why pilots hate ex pilots who move into airline management - jealous or feel they dont have the skills?
Mind you, they rubbish great managers from other industries because they dont anything know the industry.
I would not disagree with you or Topslide and we are arguing the same points.
People who have had another career before aviation have a fall back and that is important.
Those who dont have a fallback have a problem when their chosen career is a one horse wonder with few in the way of transferable skills.
Is that why pilots hate ex pilots who move into airline management - jealous or feel they dont have the skills?
Mind you, they rubbish great managers from other industries because they dont anything know the industry.
Insolvencies to hit record level in 2009, warns KPMG - Telegraph
The number of people being declared insolvent next year is expected to climb to its highest level since records began almost 50 years ago, experts have warned.
Its going to be the must have accessory for 2009. I have a close friend who works in personal insolvency and the mainstream media is WAY behind on this story. He says he sees a Tsunami of it coming. So much so that it will have a causative effect as small firms and traders are forced into insolvency by others doing the dirty on them.
The Government not only knows what is going to happen it is making it as easy and accessible as possible. From April they will supplement Bankruptcy and IVA's with shiny new Debt Relief Orders. Quickie bankruptcy for the poor thats easy and quick to process administratively.
Using credit to live a lifestyle you cannot afford is now so critically important to the economy and those in charge that the penalties are being removed. Never mind those that manage their finances, earn their wages, save their pennies and live within their means. They are idiots and fools and misbehave by not taking up a credit addiction.
Banks are drug dealers and the politicians are bought off. Staying 'clean' is bad for business..
Its so shocking you marvel how they have the bravado to attempt the illusion.
WWW
The number of people being declared insolvent next year is expected to climb to its highest level since records began almost 50 years ago, experts have warned.
KPMG said numbers would surpass 150,000 next year as people struggled to meet the rising cost of living.
If the prediction proved to be correct, it would be the highest level since The Insolvency Service figures began in 1960...
The average person entering into an IVA over the past year owed £47,000 and planned to pay just 38 per cent of this sum, equivalent to £18,200 per borrower, according to KPMG.
If the prediction proved to be correct, it would be the highest level since The Insolvency Service figures began in 1960...
The average person entering into an IVA over the past year owed £47,000 and planned to pay just 38 per cent of this sum, equivalent to £18,200 per borrower, according to KPMG.
Its going to be the must have accessory for 2009. I have a close friend who works in personal insolvency and the mainstream media is WAY behind on this story. He says he sees a Tsunami of it coming. So much so that it will have a causative effect as small firms and traders are forced into insolvency by others doing the dirty on them.
The Government not only knows what is going to happen it is making it as easy and accessible as possible. From April they will supplement Bankruptcy and IVA's with shiny new Debt Relief Orders. Quickie bankruptcy for the poor thats easy and quick to process administratively.
Using credit to live a lifestyle you cannot afford is now so critically important to the economy and those in charge that the penalties are being removed. Never mind those that manage their finances, earn their wages, save their pennies and live within their means. They are idiots and fools and misbehave by not taking up a credit addiction.
Banks are drug dealers and the politicians are bought off. Staying 'clean' is bad for business..
Its so shocking you marvel how they have the bravado to attempt the illusion.
WWW
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Using high levels of credit to by overpriced goods and services, the credit crunch and the recession are the price to pay for "rip off Britain".
The government had an interest in the high prices as they got higher VAT receipts from the higher prices and corporation tax from the higher profits.
So it is not surprising that the government are going to make baling out the imprudent easy, its a vote winner.
And what does this government want next year - votes, there may be an election.
The government had an interest in the high prices as they got higher VAT receipts from the higher prices and corporation tax from the higher profits.
So it is not surprising that the government are going to make baling out the imprudent easy, its a vote winner.
And what does this government want next year - votes, there may be an election.
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It's going to be an interesting year politically. The Idiot Brown has started to bring in the Storm Troopers (Mandelson etc) whose only real use is to run election campaigns. I am hoping that we don't get an election soon - if Brown cuts and runs, it suggests that either he is expecting things to get a whole lot worse, or he is assuming that he will benefit from some (unlikely) dead cat bounce. If he goes longer term (2010) it suggests he is hoping to sort the shambles out and then give the electorate some sort of "aren't I the cat's pyjamas?" message.
Guess where the TwinAisle money is....
2009 is going to be bloody awful. As WWW points out, the whole shooting match is based on borrowed money - LOTS of it - and the great white hope for the future is that the borrowing classes have the yoke of debt removed painlessly so that when the banks have more money to lend, the newly discharged bankrupts can do so quickly, to get the show back on the road, and to save Brown's hide.
HMG had a choice in this - take it on the chin, take a lot of pain short term, and let some large companies die (Northern Rock etc) - allowing the market to fill in the holes, without having shedloads of public debt to worry about.
Or.
Spend oodles of public cash bailing out organisations that in many ways caused this shambles by lending stupidly, saddling us and our kids with only Christ knows how much debt, and prolonging the recession beyond all measure.
Guess which the Cretin Brown chose?
A very wise lady, often ridiculed for many things, once told us two very useful things, that at the time many giggled at - (1) you can't buck the market, and (2) you can't build a sound future on funny money.
How right she was. Every job we lose now proves Mrs T's case more and more.
Happy 2009, folks. For those in the industry, I hope that this time next year you still are. For those that are "wannabee", I wish you the best of luck.
TA (now where did I leave my blue rosette?)
Guess where the TwinAisle money is....
2009 is going to be bloody awful. As WWW points out, the whole shooting match is based on borrowed money - LOTS of it - and the great white hope for the future is that the borrowing classes have the yoke of debt removed painlessly so that when the banks have more money to lend, the newly discharged bankrupts can do so quickly, to get the show back on the road, and to save Brown's hide.
HMG had a choice in this - take it on the chin, take a lot of pain short term, and let some large companies die (Northern Rock etc) - allowing the market to fill in the holes, without having shedloads of public debt to worry about.
Or.
Spend oodles of public cash bailing out organisations that in many ways caused this shambles by lending stupidly, saddling us and our kids with only Christ knows how much debt, and prolonging the recession beyond all measure.
Guess which the Cretin Brown chose?
A very wise lady, often ridiculed for many things, once told us two very useful things, that at the time many giggled at - (1) you can't buck the market, and (2) you can't build a sound future on funny money.
How right she was. Every job we lose now proves Mrs T's case more and more.
Happy 2009, folks. For those in the industry, I hope that this time next year you still are. For those that are "wannabee", I wish you the best of luck.
TA (now where did I leave my blue rosette?)
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WWW,
That's the crux of it. But Gordon is the new Squire of Delusionshire. He knows that artificially sustaining the economy is completely unsustainable, but in true populist political style he'll cross that bridge when he gets there whilst uttering the usual pathetic platitudes about "rocks of stability" or some other meaningless nonsense. It is the political equivalent of an attempt at a dead stick zoom climb in IMC near the ground, but without the benefit of an ASI.
No more boom or bust he said, whilst knowing full well it was total BS.
TwinAisle,
Mrs T opened up the free market and was astonished that she couldn't control it. It was her government what increased the supply of funny money and built an economy on debt despite also chastising people for borrowing more than they could repay. Almost like Goldsmith, also one of the engineers of the greed economy (let loose by Mrs T), who then after making billions and being sidelined By Thatcher, started to criticize the government and the system that made him so incredibly wealthy. She is just as responsible for the economy we have today.
Using credit to live a lifestyle you cannot afford is now so critically important to the economy and those in charge that the penalties are being removed. Never mind those that manage their finances, earn their wages, save their pennies and live within their means. They are idiots and fools and misbehave by not taking up a credit addiction.
No more boom or bust he said, whilst knowing full well it was total BS.
TwinAisle,
How right she was. Every job we lose now proves Mrs T's case more and more.
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Vegetable oil tested on NZ flight
A passenger plane has successfully completed a two-hour test flight partly powered by vegetable oil.
Air New Zealand hailed the flight as a "milestone" in the development of sustainable fuels that could lower aeroplane emissions and cut costs.
One engine of the Boeing 747-400 was fueled by a 50-50 mixture of jatropha plant oil and standard A1 jet fuel.
A Virgin Atlantic test flight in February used fuel derived from a blend of Brazilian babassu nuts and coconuts.
In Auckland on Tuesday, a range of tests were completed both on the ground and during the flight, said Air New Zealand Chief Pilot David Morgan.
Air New Zealand hailed the flight as a "milestone" in the development of sustainable fuels that could lower aeroplane emissions and cut costs.
One engine of the Boeing 747-400 was fueled by a 50-50 mixture of jatropha plant oil and standard A1 jet fuel.
A Virgin Atlantic test flight in February used fuel derived from a blend of Brazilian babassu nuts and coconuts.
In Auckland on Tuesday, a range of tests were completed both on the ground and during the flight, said Air New Zealand Chief Pilot David Morgan.
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I think ignoring the work Mrs T et al (and yes, I do include the unions!) did in ending UK plc as a largely manufacturing economy would be erroneous.
As an economy, we've been largely dealing in abstract ideas (law, accounts, banking, management) servicing a larger abstract idea (the financial "industry") for the past 10-20-more years
I agree the current lot are a complete shower, but they're building on the fine work of the early 80's (and maybe even the winter of discontent, as a lot of what happened to industry in the 80's could arguably be attributed to the desire of government to wrest power from the unions). Since as a nation we don't really "do" anything else apart from playing with toy money anymore, could that explain why it's evolved the way it has?
As for the French firework display over London last night. Well, I find it more worrying that we've had to go cap in hand to them to upgrade our nuclear energy programme (did they even say yes?).
But then for the past 20 or so years it's been laughable to expect bright people to look at the prospects of being an engineer or a scientist in GB, and then actually go for that as a career, hasn't it?
You've got to hand it to our colleagues on the mainland (
) retaining a decent manufacturing base coupled with more conservative approach to the banking sector will probably see them get back on their feet far, far quicker than a country with all it's economic eggs in one very knackered basket...
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
JR
As an economy, we've been largely dealing in abstract ideas (law, accounts, banking, management) servicing a larger abstract idea (the financial "industry") for the past 10-20-more years
I agree the current lot are a complete shower, but they're building on the fine work of the early 80's (and maybe even the winter of discontent, as a lot of what happened to industry in the 80's could arguably be attributed to the desire of government to wrest power from the unions). Since as a nation we don't really "do" anything else apart from playing with toy money anymore, could that explain why it's evolved the way it has?
As for the French firework display over London last night. Well, I find it more worrying that we've had to go cap in hand to them to upgrade our nuclear energy programme (did they even say yes?).
But then for the past 20 or so years it's been laughable to expect bright people to look at the prospects of being an engineer or a scientist in GB, and then actually go for that as a career, hasn't it?
You've got to hand it to our colleagues on the mainland (
) retaining a decent manufacturing base coupled with more conservative approach to the banking sector will probably see them get back on their feet far, far quicker than a country with all it's economic eggs in one very knackered basket...HAPPY NEW YEAR!
JR
The best summary and broad prediction I can find today comes courtesy of the Gautemala Times (take note the cut n' paste from the Daily Mail bewailers),
Guatemala News | Will Banks and Financial Markets Recover in 2009?
The suprising thing at this point to my mind if just how few airlines have gone under yet. I wonder just when its going to happen.
WWW
ps A sincere best wishes for 2009, its going to be a bumpy ride for all of us.
Guatemala News | Will Banks and Financial Markets Recover in 2009?
The suprising thing at this point to my mind if just how few airlines have gone under yet. I wonder just when its going to happen.
WWW
ps A sincere best wishes for 2009, its going to be a bumpy ride for all of us.
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that manage their finances, earn their wages, save their pennies and live within their means.
to pick up the pieces, and the tab, yet again.
to pick up the pieces, and the tab, yet again.
The suprising thing at this point to my mind if just how few airlines have gone under yet. I wonder just when its going to happen.
You can see on the high street how some retailers seemed to go down almost simultaneously at the 11th hour. Basically, without a good Christmas the money men cut their losses and walked. I think the banks are ruthlessly foreclosing on high risk debt.
There will still be a delay before we see businesses to go bust simply because they are not doing enough trade.
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I think ignoring the work Mrs T et al (and yes, I do include the unions!) did in ending UK plc as a largely manufacturing economy would be erroneous.
I started my working life in manufacturing in 1976. Most of it was pretty run down, inefficient and over manned.
The machinery was pre war and totally knackered. The Unions were resistant to changing working practices that would allow for investment in new and modern kit which our competitiors had.
All that happened in Mrs T's time was that the inevitable happened.
Quote:
that manage their finances, earn their wages, save their pennies and live within their means.
to pick up the pieces, and the tab, yet again.
A common misconception.
that manage their finances, earn their wages, save their pennies and live within their means.
to pick up the pieces, and the tab, yet again.
A common misconception.
Edited to correct spelling
The irony is that lenders are assessing mortgages on the basis of borrowers being able to afford interst rates of 7%.
Last edited by chrisbl; 1st Jan 2009 at 19:07.
Euro parity is really going to stunt the holidaymaking of 2009. Even those not worried about recession and job security will have good reason NOT to fly to Europe on holiday this year.
Passenger numbers are going to drop devastatingly. Its inevitable.
What then happens is predictable.
WWW
Passenger numbers are going to drop devastatingly. Its inevitable.
What then happens is predictable.
WWW
G7 industrial output has already contracted 7pc since peaking in February 2008. The speed and depth of the downturn mean that we have already exceeded the 2000-2001 downturn and look set to exceed the 1980-1982 recession with the current decline heading towards 10pc.
That would make the current recession the second worst since the Second World War, beaten only by the 1974-75 recession when output plunged 12pc from peak to trough.
This is really serious. Many many airlines will not survive this and even those that do will be offering degraded pay and conditions.
Protect yourselves.
WWW
That would make the current recession the second worst since the Second World War, beaten only by the 1974-75 recession when output plunged 12pc from peak to trough.
This is really serious. Many many airlines will not survive this and even those that do will be offering degraded pay and conditions.
Protect yourselves.
WWW
I wouldn't expect to see a sustained return to normal growth for a couple of years. John Majors green shoots of recovery took an awful long time to become visible to the naked eye..
Its very hard to predict exactly how and when the major impact of this disaster will be fully seen in the airline industry. Its a skewed place with the likes of Alitalia seemingly able to defy economic gravity. Unlike the last major recession this time we have the likes of Ryanair who WILL renegotiate terms and conditions to reflect pilots and cabin crews precarious employment predicament. A race to the bottom then ensues.
WWW
Its very hard to predict exactly how and when the major impact of this disaster will be fully seen in the airline industry. Its a skewed place with the likes of Alitalia seemingly able to defy economic gravity. Unlike the last major recession this time we have the likes of Ryanair who WILL renegotiate terms and conditions to reflect pilots and cabin crews precarious employment predicament. A race to the bottom then ensues.
WWW
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The suprising thing at this point to my mind if just how few airlines have gone under yet. I wonder just when its going to happen.
