Oxford Aviation & HSBC Question
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Oxford Aviation & HSBC Question
Hi all (this is my first post so please be gentle)
I am 24 and have already passed the following Licences and Ratings
PPL (A) & NQ
I am looking to complete my CPL/ATPL with Oxford Aviation and would be looking at applying for the HSBC loan.
The problem is i was declared Bankrupt on 2005 and the have been discarged from my bakruptcy on 2005.
Has anyone else applied for this loan while been banrupt or have had your time spent as a bankrupt person. (can my wife take out the HSBC loan for me)
Any help on this would be a great plus point.
Thanks
KEVIN
I am 24 and have already passed the following Licences and Ratings
PPL (A) & NQ
I am looking to complete my CPL/ATPL with Oxford Aviation and would be looking at applying for the HSBC loan.
The problem is i was declared Bankrupt on 2005 and the have been discarged from my bakruptcy on 2005.
Has anyone else applied for this loan while been banrupt or have had your time spent as a bankrupt person. (can my wife take out the HSBC loan for me)
Any help on this would be a great plus point.
Thanks
KEVIN
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Ask yourself if you were a bank in the middle of a credit crunch and someone who had recently declared themselves bankrupt came and asked for a loan for tens of thousands of pounds on an unsecured basis would you give it to them?? No offence but you reap what you sow... 
Good luck getting the loan
Good luck getting the loan
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Uh just to add to the above....
HSBC no longer operate the PSL on an unsecured basis. You have to have at least a significant chunk if not the whole thing secured.
Don't get me wrong, you may well still be able to get a loan through HSBC to help fund you training, but it won't be deferred or at the same rates at the fully secured PSL.
If you have been discharged from bankruptcy and you can offer HSBC security and a top notch business plan then they will lend you as much as you need within reason. They're not quite as cavalier as they once were with lending to trainee pilots but as long as their money is safe then their happy.
I'm just about to turn 22 and have got 55k sorted. Security going through at the mo so don't give up fella. The 'credit crunch' isn't quite as bad as the news likes to make out!
Hope this helps.
CS
HSBC no longer operate the PSL on an unsecured basis. You have to have at least a significant chunk if not the whole thing secured.
Don't get me wrong, you may well still be able to get a loan through HSBC to help fund you training, but it won't be deferred or at the same rates at the fully secured PSL.
If you have been discharged from bankruptcy and you can offer HSBC security and a top notch business plan then they will lend you as much as you need within reason. They're not quite as cavalier as they once were with lending to trainee pilots but as long as their money is safe then their happy.
I'm just about to turn 22 and have got 55k sorted. Security going through at the mo so don't give up fella. The 'credit crunch' isn't quite as bad as the news likes to make out!
Hope this helps.
CS
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be serious, who is going to give 55K to a guy in this profession?
I even think, it 's soon the end of Oxford, and Oxford will be reserved only for rich daddy's kids who come to school with Ferrari.
Get a job and save money...time for loan/bankrupt is over
.
I even think, it 's soon the end of Oxford, and Oxford will be reserved only for rich daddy's kids who come to school with Ferrari.
Get a job and save money...time for loan/bankrupt is over
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Get a job and save money? Saving anything up to 60k could take a very long time. Even if you did save that money then the age you are likely to be by then will mean for many life would have taken its course, resulting in many people having houses and families to run and support. How on earth are people expected to upsticks and start training then? What you suggests Dartagnan is not practical whatsoever. It will only lead to a shortage of pilots in the future. The scaremongering and negativity on the website is absolutely shocking at times. People should be encouraging others not making riduculous unsubstantiated statements. This is hardly the first credit crunch in the history of time is it!
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Nickmanl - Thank god for some bloody common sense! 
Apologies but the post after my last one saying "get serious, whos going to give a guy 55k in this profession". H S B C !!!! I had my loan approved only a month or so ago.
Nick's right, the negativity on here pisses me off. I fully agree with the idea of keeping your debt to a bare minimm and if you're really not sure you can get through the training, get a job and ultimately pay the bank back then don't do it! The fact that HSBC won't lend unsecured anymore so that already says that they've already lost their confidence. Their money is safe so long as it's fully secured so it's not really like they're risking anything anymore. It's great that they've kept the option of deferrment open but don't mistake this for the bank being naieve, they still make a serious amount of money out of these loans being the ONLY bank in the UK that will help finance flight training.
I'm just coming up 22 but even at a young age saving up just isn't an option in my planning. It's not fair on my partner who will want a house in the next few years. I'm very much NOT a case of 'I want an ATPL and I want it now', but rather'I want an ATPL but there are other people in my life to consider'.
Chris
Apologies but the post after my last one saying "get serious, whos going to give a guy 55k in this profession". H S B C !!!! I had my loan approved only a month or so ago.
Nick's right, the negativity on here pisses me off. I fully agree with the idea of keeping your debt to a bare minimm and if you're really not sure you can get through the training, get a job and ultimately pay the bank back then don't do it! The fact that HSBC won't lend unsecured anymore so that already says that they've already lost their confidence. Their money is safe so long as it's fully secured so it's not really like they're risking anything anymore. It's great that they've kept the option of deferrment open but don't mistake this for the bank being naieve, they still make a serious amount of money out of these loans being the ONLY bank in the UK that will help finance flight training.
I'm just coming up 22 but even at a young age saving up just isn't an option in my planning. It's not fair on my partner who will want a house in the next few years. I'm very much NOT a case of 'I want an ATPL and I want it now', but rather'I want an ATPL but there are other people in my life to consider'.
Chris
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Oxford and HSBC
Dartagnan - hardly helpfull comments. Not all OAT grads are rich kids. Many have to secure loans against their or their parents properties. Takes some bottle.
I think some are misssing the main point. HSBS loans are secured. Thus it is less important about the individuals credit history as long as the bank can get their funds back if the deal goes T**S UP.
HSBC have only been offering secured loans for a number of years now, so it was pre the credit crunch. Just sensible pragmatic banking.
You need to talk to OAT/HBOS and find out their views. Don't try and hudwink them by doing it via someone else. Hardly a good start to a financial deal. they may be less than pleased if they find out and your credit rating could sink even further.
Most lenders will load you funds as long as it is secured. Different completely if unsecured, then you would have nil chance.
Good luck.
Skintman.
I think some are misssing the main point. HSBS loans are secured. Thus it is less important about the individuals credit history as long as the bank can get their funds back if the deal goes T**S UP.
HSBC have only been offering secured loans for a number of years now, so it was pre the credit crunch. Just sensible pragmatic banking.
You need to talk to OAT/HBOS and find out their views. Don't try and hudwink them by doing it via someone else. Hardly a good start to a financial deal. they may be less than pleased if they find out and your credit rating could sink even further.
Most lenders will load you funds as long as it is secured. Different completely if unsecured, then you would have nil chance.
Good luck.
Skintman.
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Good comments skint man
The whole idea behind a credit history is for the lender to have some idea of your previous history of paying back what you have borrowed. However if the bank has another form of knowing you'll pay back what you owe i.e your parents house, then they won't be quite as worried about your individual record.
As for any ideas about ducking out on the bank or taking the money and running to another school that isn't OAT or Cabair.... I didn't see where this was mentioned so not sure why it came up but whatever the reason.... trying to con the bank in any way shape or form is rediculous and only helps to ruin it for everyone else. i.e people like me who have to have their loan now secured on parents property thanks to too many people deliberately going bankrupt.
CS
The whole idea behind a credit history is for the lender to have some idea of your previous history of paying back what you have borrowed. However if the bank has another form of knowing you'll pay back what you owe i.e your parents house, then they won't be quite as worried about your individual record.
As for any ideas about ducking out on the bank or taking the money and running to another school that isn't OAT or Cabair.... I didn't see where this was mentioned so not sure why it came up but whatever the reason.... trying to con the bank in any way shape or form is rediculous and only helps to ruin it for everyone else. i.e people like me who have to have their loan now secured on parents property thanks to too many people deliberately going bankrupt.
CS
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Bank dealings with clients and FTOs are quite bespoke, for this reason you wont find much information about the possible finance available to you online. You can still get unsecured loans from HSBC with help from a select few FTOs. May I suggest you approach CTC when they are accepting applicants. That is all.
when they are accepting applicants. That is all.
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Ajb00 - You can get unsecured loans for upto 25k but they won't be deferred so you would have to make payments whilst you're training. This wouldn't be done as a PSL either so the interest rate will be higher. With that in mind, you can shop around for the best deal and train where you like providing you have the rest of the money in hand and are able to make the repayments throughout.
CS
CS
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Having recently researched the HSBC/OAT PSL, I'd like to set the record straight because most of what has been posted is incorrect.
They offer up £25K unsecured and sometimes require a parental guarantee for this loan, but not always. Interest rate is base rate plus 2-3/4% and they do give deferred repayments with the due date six months post training.
They offer up to £50K secured against home equity. Repayments deferred until six months post completion. Interest rate is base rate plus 2%.
The original poster seems to be going down the Modular route, so those who assume he is looking for £50K or £60K are reading too much into the thread. The maximum HSBC will loan for Modular training is £25K, either secured or unsecured.
They definitely will not grant the loan to anyone who has filed bankruptcy, even if it is discharged.
I spoke to the the HSBC Oxford loan officer about this only a month ago, plus several email followups, so I'm pretty sure my facts are up to date. Both loans are a PSL, no payments during training, 11 years to repay £50K or 8 to repay £25K, first payment due six months after completion of the training.
They offer up £25K unsecured and sometimes require a parental guarantee for this loan, but not always. Interest rate is base rate plus 2-3/4% and they do give deferred repayments with the due date six months post training.
They offer up to £50K secured against home equity. Repayments deferred until six months post completion. Interest rate is base rate plus 2%.
The original poster seems to be going down the Modular route, so those who assume he is looking for £50K or £60K are reading too much into the thread. The maximum HSBC will loan for Modular training is £25K, either secured or unsecured.
They definitely will not grant the loan to anyone who has filed bankruptcy, even if it is discharged.
I spoke to the the HSBC Oxford loan officer about this only a month ago, plus several email followups, so I'm pretty sure my facts are up to date. Both loans are a PSL, no payments during training, 11 years to repay £50K or 8 to repay £25K, first payment due six months after completion of the training.
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Just what's needed, yet more incorrect information that has been poorly researched....
1) I'll be training on the Airline Entry Scheme through Cabair (which is Modular when all's said and done) and got 55k only a month ago so that shoots down that one straight away.
2) The interest rate is exactly 2% above base. Where does the 2.75% above base come into it? Or are OAT students are getting sting for a higher interest rate???
3) You have a maximum of 2 years from training start date to commence repayments.
4) My loan is 100% secured against my parents property so the maximum of 50k isn't true.
5) HSBC will lend you whatever can be secured (within reason). They have little interest in how much you borrow, only that you can pay it back or failing all else, they can reclaim it from your parents house.
Apologies for flying off the handle on this one and whilst I don't pretend to know it all; I am in the middle of the loan process so am current as anyone.
Adios, I don't want to appear arrogant here but my advice would be to speak to the bank direct before speaking to the loan officer who clearly isn't all that up to date, which is slightly worrying!
I'm sure the amount available is dependant on the security that you can offer and the quality of the business plan that you send in with your application.
CS
1) I'll be training on the Airline Entry Scheme through Cabair (which is Modular when all's said and done) and got 55k only a month ago so that shoots down that one straight away.
2) The interest rate is exactly 2% above base. Where does the 2.75% above base come into it? Or are OAT students are getting sting for a higher interest rate???
3) You have a maximum of 2 years from training start date to commence repayments.
4) My loan is 100% secured against my parents property so the maximum of 50k isn't true.
5) HSBC will lend you whatever can be secured (within reason). They have little interest in how much you borrow, only that you can pay it back or failing all else, they can reclaim it from your parents house.
Apologies for flying off the handle on this one and whilst I don't pretend to know it all; I am in the middle of the loan process so am current as anyone.
Adios, I don't want to appear arrogant here but my advice would be to speak to the bank direct before speaking to the loan officer who clearly isn't all that up to date, which is slightly worrying!
I'm sure the amount available is dependant on the security that you can offer and the quality of the business plan that you send in with your application.
CS
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I would be ashamed to jeopardize my parent's house!!!
do they know how hard it is to get a job?
will you take care of them when they will lose their house?
this is scandalous, and of course, student borrowing money don't care because they think they will join BA and make lot of money.
but what if you don't get the job?
if you lose your medical?
do they know how hard it is to get a job?
will you take care of them when they will lose their house?
this is scandalous, and of course, student borrowing money don't care because they think they will join BA and make lot of money.
but what if you don't get the job?
if you lose your medical?
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Not half as ashamed as I would be coming on a forum pretending to be a muskateer!
Jesus christ, have you actually got anything positive or helpful to say because if not I suggest you take your comments elsewhere. They aren't productive and I'm sure I'm not the only one that they're pissing off.
What stage of your training are you at now or are you a working pilot? And how did you fund or are planning to fund your training???
My parents are fully aware of the risk and have made damn sure that my contingencies are sufficient to cover the payments. If I thought for one second that there was any serious risk of my parents losing their house through me not being able to make the repayments then I wouldn't be doing it.
Do you think people like me merrily wlak into the bank and say "here you go HSBC, have the deeds to my parents house just incase I balls up"???
Get a grip mate!
Jesus christ, have you actually got anything positive or helpful to say because if not I suggest you take your comments elsewhere. They aren't productive and I'm sure I'm not the only one that they're pissing off.
What stage of your training are you at now or are you a working pilot? And how did you fund or are planning to fund your training???
My parents are fully aware of the risk and have made damn sure that my contingencies are sufficient to cover the payments. If I thought for one second that there was any serious risk of my parents losing their house through me not being able to make the repayments then I wouldn't be doing it.
Do you think people like me merrily wlak into the bank and say "here you go HSBC, have the deeds to my parents house just incase I balls up"???
Get a grip mate!
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Chris,
Yes you have flown off the handle a bit. My research is adequate and my source is the PSL loan officer at HSBC Oxford.
The title of this thread is Oxford Aviation and OAT, not HSBC and Cabair.
Each branch of HSBC that oversees a PSL for their nearby flight school offers different terms. I know HSBC in Milton Keynes are offering as much as £60K secured and I would not be surprised if they occasionally go higher. I should have been clearer in saying your information was not accurate as regards OAT.
HSBC also offers a loan to CTC Wings cadets and they can get at least £60K unsecured.
In conclusion, everything you posted may be true and accurate for Cabair students, but it is not accurate for OAT students.
The only exception I know of to the £50K limit at OAT is for their airline cadets who can borrow up to £60K secured. I didn't see a need to bring that up in responding to the original question, since it is apparent he is a Modular student.
I did miss one question in the original post. I doubt that a student's wife can't get a PSL for him. She might be able to take out a mortgage or home equity loan in her name and let him use the money, but that is not a PSL and it won't be possible if the home is owned jointly.
I must say though, that your response to Dartagnan is spot on. It's too bad this forum's software doesn't let you add certain member's to an ignore list so you never have to read their tripe again!
Yes you have flown off the handle a bit. My research is adequate and my source is the PSL loan officer at HSBC Oxford.
The title of this thread is Oxford Aviation and OAT, not HSBC and Cabair.
Each branch of HSBC that oversees a PSL for their nearby flight school offers different terms. I know HSBC in Milton Keynes are offering as much as £60K secured and I would not be surprised if they occasionally go higher. I should have been clearer in saying your information was not accurate as regards OAT.
HSBC also offers a loan to CTC Wings cadets and they can get at least £60K unsecured.
In conclusion, everything you posted may be true and accurate for Cabair students, but it is not accurate for OAT students.
The only exception I know of to the £50K limit at OAT is for their airline cadets who can borrow up to £60K secured. I didn't see a need to bring that up in responding to the original question, since it is apparent he is a Modular student.
I did miss one question in the original post. I doubt that a student's wife can't get a PSL for him. She might be able to take out a mortgage or home equity loan in her name and let him use the money, but that is not a PSL and it won't be possible if the home is owned jointly.
I must say though, that your response to Dartagnan is spot on. It's too bad this forum's software doesn't let you add certain member's to an ignore list so you never have to read their tripe again!
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Dartagnan posts all over pprune,I gather he is an experienced pilot,but very cynical.I can't remember ever having seen a positive post from him. Come on Dartagnan make our day,post something positive!
On the subject of pay,yes aviation is not the city,you will never earn millions,but most senior captains earn close to £100 K pa,(including flight pay,per diem,sector pay,etc)not one of my colleagues in airline/corporate flying earns much less,this is decent professional pay,& puts one in the top 0.01% of the world's earners(How rich are you? Website)That said,pay is crap when you start,but so it is in other professions.
On the subject of pay,yes aviation is not the city,you will never earn millions,but most senior captains earn close to £100 K pa,(including flight pay,per diem,sector pay,etc)not one of my colleagues in airline/corporate flying earns much less,this is decent professional pay,& puts one in the top 0.01% of the world's earners(How rich are you? Website)That said,pay is crap when you start,but so it is in other professions.
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Adios - Yeah fair point, this is about HSBC and OAT and I'm with Cabair. CTC Students are indeed financed for 60k but it is secured in the form of a bond so it is still secured. No bank in their right mind will lend anyone 60k unsecured. I have a friend who went through CTC about a year ago and they had to be bonded so unless thats changed....
HSBC don't deal with it at branch level just like that I'm afraid, I found that out the hard way! As far as I know only HSBC Cranfield deals with PSL's for pilots. She works 2 days a week I believe. However, I would speak to OAT about this just incase I'm wrong but everything I've ever heard points to only one person @ HSBC dealing with this. (As unbelieveable as that may sound!)
As I said, I think you need to have a chat with HSBC about what they will be prepared to lend and on what terms. They will be able to help somewhat more than just the loan officer at OAT.
Good luck.
CS
HSBC don't deal with it at branch level just like that I'm afraid, I found that out the hard way! As far as I know only HSBC Cranfield deals with PSL's for pilots. She works 2 days a week I believe. However, I would speak to OAT about this just incase I'm wrong but everything I've ever heard points to only one person @ HSBC dealing with this. (As unbelieveable as that may sound!)
As I said, I think you need to have a chat with HSBC about what they will be prepared to lend and on what terms. They will be able to help somewhat more than just the loan officer at OAT.
Good luck.
CS
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would be ashamed to jeopardize my parent's house!!!
do they know how hard it is to get a job?
will you take care of them when they will lose their house?
this is scandalous, and of course, student borrowing money don't care because they think they will join BA and make lot of money.
but what if you don't get the job?
if you lose your medical?
do they know how hard it is to get a job?
will you take care of them when they will lose their house?
this is scandalous, and of course, student borrowing money don't care because they think they will join BA and make lot of money.
but what if you don't get the job?
if you lose your medical?
I would also like to put it to you Dartagnan, what if you don't lose your medical and what if you do get a job? Funny that for every negative bit of spin you put on something there may also be a positive side. What would happen if you lost your medical or your job or does the negativity not work the other way around? Do you not want other people to succeed where you have?
Sorry to go off topic guys. I have no problem with people offering realistic advice about the gravity of the situation wannabees put themselves in, but comments like the above are simply further degrading the reputation of pprune. Sometimes if all you want to do is snipe and bitch then it may be better not to contribute at all and go away and moan somewhere else. If you have children Dartagnan and if they come to you saying they want to do something, will you discourage them from following their aspirations?
Back to the topic, HSBC Oxford will only provide 50k I think towards the integrated route although I think HSBC MK will go slightly further.
Last edited by nickmanl; 10th Jan 2008 at 14:18.