Oxford Air Training
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Minimalist
If you are thinking of training why not ring up or email the pilot recruitment people at airlines and ask what sort of low hours pilots they are looking for. That's what I did and I discovered that the airline I wanted most to work for has a policy not to take on low hours modular students (which is still in place), although they will take on modular pilots with full ATPLs. Now I am working there, I think it's a stupid policy but it's unlikely to change in the near future.
"Now I am working there". Not content with pretending to be a wannabe who is thinking about going to OAT, this clown now pretends, he thinks subtlely, to be a "sucessful" OAT graduate who has got that all elusive airline job.
The reputation of OAT is getting more and more damaged by the minute.
It is certainly a fact that posts on this website can and do influence peoples choices re training, I know it has with me, and I hope very much that this thread is doing the same.
Jet Blast Rat
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sarfend-on-Sea
Age: 50
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know anyone who had decided before starting the course which airline they wanted to work for. I certainly don't know anyone who focussed on one, and think it most unlikely that he or she would be successful. The airlines that profess a policy of only taking integrated graduates take very few newly-qualified pilots anyway; it seems most unwise to direct your whole training towards one airline, let alone one that isn't likely to take you on! As a ground instructor and flight instructor, and propping up a flying-club bar I know a lot of pilots, especially low-hour commercial pilots, so why have I never met anyone who directs his career in anything like this way, I wonder?
Hedges might have a point.
Hedges might have a point.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: China
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I went to oxford as a modular student and I'll just make a list of positives and negatives.I DID MY CPL/MECR/IR & MCC at Oxford.
Positives
- The quality of flying instruction was excellent. Having been lucky enough to have spent 3 years on a university air squadron (I consider the RAF to be the best flying school in the world) I found my instructors were more mature in age and experience than many other schools, and of a similar dedication and standard to the training I received on the UAS. OAT instructors do get paid more money than some other training schools so you would expect them to have better instructors- market forces say the best instructors will go to where they can get paid more.
- Free use of IFR computer training devices complete with all the switches, yoke and rudder pedals etc. They have a room that you can use for free that is a very good way of learning and practicing IR procedures and learning what the needles do and when. Many people will say Microsoft flight sim can do this, but in truth the two do not compare. I also got free time on a Seneca frasca II simulator, but was not allowed to add the hours- again I would be surprised if other flight training organizations offer that, although you do have to have a good relationship with your instructor to get on the Frasca II sim.
- On the whole the modern buildings are a pleasant place to learn to fly, I'm sure you would rather plan your flight in a nice modern building with computer access to flight planning software and weather, than in some dirty cramped place.
- Customer service staffs are very friendly
- Careers help, although being modular I did not qualify for this, I was helped with my CV - which now looks very nice and professional and was given time on a one to one basis on career advice. The lectures from visiting airlines are also very useful and allow you to hand your CV into the people who will recruit in person, or at the very least a contact name of who to address the letter to- I got a reply from every person who visited oxford that I sent my CV.
- The area where you train is nice, remember you will spend a long time there, the village of Kidlington is small but pleasant and Oxford is only a short bus journey or car ride away.
_ The over all quality of students seemed quite high, I did some hour building at the Riverside in Tulsa USA (I was very pleased with the riverside - not as good as Oxford - but very cheap and good value) and the other students there just did not seem to be as gifted (sorry I can not think of a better way to put it) as the OAT students, although many were better friends, if that makes sense?
- When I was there almost everyone on the integrated course had job interviews with BA, even before they had finished training- although out of interest most did not get selected, but still they had the chance to impress and unless they had gone integrated they would not have been offered that chance.
Negatives
-If you have a problem be prepared to make a noise and push your case. When I was there I was told my MECR/IR could not start until 3 weeks after I had finished my CPL and, this was while I was staying in the accommodation on site. Obviously I did not want a three-week gap in training so I tried to sort it out. Customer Services said it was impossible for me to start, the flying side of the business said no problem they have enough instructors and aircraft for me to start my MECR/IR. This went on for about two weeks while I was doing my CPL, not the hardest flying test you will do but the added Oxford induced stress was not welcome. Anyway I had to complain direct to the MD, I then got an e-mail from customer services asking me to come and see them and my problem was sorted out. This was not the only difficulty with my training program oxford caused me.Sometimes at Oxford you get the idea that the head is not talking to the body.
- The is a band of flying instructor that are sick of the system at oxford and will moan and you hear them moan about the company politics, there is certainly some discontented flying instructors at oxford.
- The onsite accommodation is way too expensive, even though it is very convenient. The Internet access they provide in your room is very very slow or often did not work at all. The food included in accommodation is not of good quality, although you can now opt out of food inclusive accommodation. The canteen was getting renovated when I was there - so the quality might have changed- ANY comments current students?
The cleaners for the accommodation are useless and do not clean properly.
-The slot and booking system for aircraft at oxford is very good............until
Some bugger in ops changes your booking. Example your booked in for a flight at 4pm tomorrow, so you go home today at midday. Next day you get a phone call at 9am asking where you are, ops changed your booking to 9am, but of course you were not at the school so had no idea and what is worse they will say it is your fault for not checking for any changes last thing at night. So you find yourself regularly check the ops booking board for changes.
- I keep in touch with a few modular and integrated students from Oxford, some have jobs and some do not. I would be surprised if the success of integrated is as high as they quote- especially if you look at figures of only the last six months- just my personal experience from talking to integrated graduates about there course success rates.
I was lucky and I got a job with an airline in less than a month after graduating form oxford, although in my case, its a foreign airline and they had not even head of OAT- so having there name on my CV did not help. In the month before getting employed I did send CV's to UK airlines and subsequently had two offers of interviews from two of them, so maybe Oxford on the CV is a good thing, it certainly is not a bad thing in my opinion.
As a side note I did my ground school at Bristol and I think they were fist class, when I looked at oxford notes, Bristol’s were superior and I actually helped some oxford students, teaching them some of the Bristol "tricks" for learning and remembering the stuff for ATPL exams.
If I could go there again, I probably would. My advise to modular and integrated students would be if you go there go there expecting to pay for the fATPL only, do not expect them to get you a job. If your happy to pay for the facilities they offer (which on the whole are very good) then pay your money it is a good school, think of any career help you receive (Including the Airline Prep course students) as an added bonus and you will be happy. If you go there just because you think you can buy a jet job, then you might be disappointed.
Positives
- The quality of flying instruction was excellent. Having been lucky enough to have spent 3 years on a university air squadron (I consider the RAF to be the best flying school in the world) I found my instructors were more mature in age and experience than many other schools, and of a similar dedication and standard to the training I received on the UAS. OAT instructors do get paid more money than some other training schools so you would expect them to have better instructors- market forces say the best instructors will go to where they can get paid more.
- Free use of IFR computer training devices complete with all the switches, yoke and rudder pedals etc. They have a room that you can use for free that is a very good way of learning and practicing IR procedures and learning what the needles do and when. Many people will say Microsoft flight sim can do this, but in truth the two do not compare. I also got free time on a Seneca frasca II simulator, but was not allowed to add the hours- again I would be surprised if other flight training organizations offer that, although you do have to have a good relationship with your instructor to get on the Frasca II sim.
- On the whole the modern buildings are a pleasant place to learn to fly, I'm sure you would rather plan your flight in a nice modern building with computer access to flight planning software and weather, than in some dirty cramped place.
- Customer service staffs are very friendly
- Careers help, although being modular I did not qualify for this, I was helped with my CV - which now looks very nice and professional and was given time on a one to one basis on career advice. The lectures from visiting airlines are also very useful and allow you to hand your CV into the people who will recruit in person, or at the very least a contact name of who to address the letter to- I got a reply from every person who visited oxford that I sent my CV.
- The area where you train is nice, remember you will spend a long time there, the village of Kidlington is small but pleasant and Oxford is only a short bus journey or car ride away.
_ The over all quality of students seemed quite high, I did some hour building at the Riverside in Tulsa USA (I was very pleased with the riverside - not as good as Oxford - but very cheap and good value) and the other students there just did not seem to be as gifted (sorry I can not think of a better way to put it) as the OAT students, although many were better friends, if that makes sense?
- When I was there almost everyone on the integrated course had job interviews with BA, even before they had finished training- although out of interest most did not get selected, but still they had the chance to impress and unless they had gone integrated they would not have been offered that chance.
Negatives
-If you have a problem be prepared to make a noise and push your case. When I was there I was told my MECR/IR could not start until 3 weeks after I had finished my CPL and, this was while I was staying in the accommodation on site. Obviously I did not want a three-week gap in training so I tried to sort it out. Customer Services said it was impossible for me to start, the flying side of the business said no problem they have enough instructors and aircraft for me to start my MECR/IR. This went on for about two weeks while I was doing my CPL, not the hardest flying test you will do but the added Oxford induced stress was not welcome. Anyway I had to complain direct to the MD, I then got an e-mail from customer services asking me to come and see them and my problem was sorted out. This was not the only difficulty with my training program oxford caused me.Sometimes at Oxford you get the idea that the head is not talking to the body.
- The is a band of flying instructor that are sick of the system at oxford and will moan and you hear them moan about the company politics, there is certainly some discontented flying instructors at oxford.
- The onsite accommodation is way too expensive, even though it is very convenient. The Internet access they provide in your room is very very slow or often did not work at all. The food included in accommodation is not of good quality, although you can now opt out of food inclusive accommodation. The canteen was getting renovated when I was there - so the quality might have changed- ANY comments current students?
The cleaners for the accommodation are useless and do not clean properly.
-The slot and booking system for aircraft at oxford is very good............until
Some bugger in ops changes your booking. Example your booked in for a flight at 4pm tomorrow, so you go home today at midday. Next day you get a phone call at 9am asking where you are, ops changed your booking to 9am, but of course you were not at the school so had no idea and what is worse they will say it is your fault for not checking for any changes last thing at night. So you find yourself regularly check the ops booking board for changes.
- I keep in touch with a few modular and integrated students from Oxford, some have jobs and some do not. I would be surprised if the success of integrated is as high as they quote- especially if you look at figures of only the last six months- just my personal experience from talking to integrated graduates about there course success rates.
I was lucky and I got a job with an airline in less than a month after graduating form oxford, although in my case, its a foreign airline and they had not even head of OAT- so having there name on my CV did not help. In the month before getting employed I did send CV's to UK airlines and subsequently had two offers of interviews from two of them, so maybe Oxford on the CV is a good thing, it certainly is not a bad thing in my opinion.
As a side note I did my ground school at Bristol and I think they were fist class, when I looked at oxford notes, Bristol’s were superior and I actually helped some oxford students, teaching them some of the Bristol "tricks" for learning and remembering the stuff for ATPL exams.
If I could go there again, I probably would. My advise to modular and integrated students would be if you go there go there expecting to pay for the fATPL only, do not expect them to get you a job. If your happy to pay for the facilities they offer (which on the whole are very good) then pay your money it is a good school, think of any career help you receive (Including the Airline Prep course students) as an added bonus and you will be happy. If you go there just because you think you can buy a jet job, then you might be disappointed.
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, let's calm down on the conspiracy theories! Nimbus5 isn't the first student or staff member of a school to pose as a wannabe still deliberating, and I'm sure he won't be the last. He may well have other identities, but (just for the record) Minimalist isn't one of them - and Minimalist is not posting from OAT.
Now, I'm not going to go too far with all this detective work. I do try and have a life outside Pprune, and right now Table Mountain is visible from my hotel room and I'd rather like to climb it today - weather and Pprune permitting!
Just remember the big red writing at the bottom of the page. There may be other OAT stooges posting on this thread, or there may not. OAT's opinion of Pprune is, and will remain, immaterial; it's your opinion of them that is important! This is why we urge you to make up your own minds having visited the schools you're interested in.
Scroggs
Now, I'm not going to go too far with all this detective work. I do try and have a life outside Pprune, and right now Table Mountain is visible from my hotel room and I'd rather like to climb it today - weather and Pprune permitting!
Just remember the big red writing at the bottom of the page. There may be other OAT stooges posting on this thread, or there may not. OAT's opinion of Pprune is, and will remain, immaterial; it's your opinion of them that is important! This is why we urge you to make up your own minds having visited the schools you're interested in.
Scroggs
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: London
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was emailed the link to this thread about a week ago and have been glancing back now and then out of interest to see what the latest is. I am an ex Oxford APP graduate and thought I would add my views on it all I think this reply will remain neutral and hopefully helpful.
I started on the APP course when it was in its infancy, when I was 29 years old.
Having had a rewarding career thus far I decided it was time to take the step of trying to become a pilot (one of those childhood dream things).
I did very little research into which school I would go to, I had friends that flew for BA and Oxford was the school they had been put through under the BA cadet scheme so that was good enough for me. Oxford it was to be - I chose an integrated route purely down to the fact that unless I am on a timetable I am a bit useless and thought the compacted timetabled schedule would be what I needed personally to achieve my goals. I had dependants and partner in the UK so the thought of going overseas to train wasn't an ideal solution for me.
Aerospace struck a chord with me in an earlier post when he/she mentioned that students would get very defence if they read people bad mouthing the school they have just paid 60,000GBP to attend - because I know it would pi$$ me off when I was a student and I had a few spats on here for that very reason (you know toys out cot, mud slinging, name calling etc etc - all very non productive
)
Bear in mind what follows is based on my time there from May 03 - December 04, so some things may have changed.
My goals whilst on he course were: to pass everything first time, get an exam average of at least 85% and get a first series in my IR, then I would be in for a shot at the BA selection if it ever materialised for low hour students(when I started course BA didn't have the SSP scheme and were not taking on low hours students)
Phase I
A class of 14, lived in a shared house in Kidlington with 2 others in my class. Ground school was hard work and had it not been for the Jolly boatman and the landlord there (Goldfinger) we would have become very numb in this part of the course - however life is all about balance - ground school all day, study for about 3-4 hours when we got home and then down the pub for last orders (or perhaps a little earlier). It's all very exciting at first but you soon start to feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog day so you have to try and keep yourself sane (in our case it was through socialising - aka networking
)
We chose against the halls as to be honest at the time the halls were pretty small, the food left a bit to be desired and they cost a lot of money, you could go uncatered in the halls but there wasn't really any cooking facilities and we had heard from others in halls that it could be a bit frustrating trying to get piece and quiet what will the Algerian air force cadets charging about the place and bellowing at 1-2 in the morning (they weren't all like that, a lot of them also frequented some of Kidlington finest pubs) so for us it was a house in Kidlington, cost about £800 a month between the 3 of us, if I recall halls was at the time £160 -1 90 each a week.
With Ground school out of the way it was off to America for the CPL flying, we didn't go to phoenix, we were in Tyler Texas so I cant comment on phoenix but the flying was a hoot and it was so nice not to have to come home and study after flying each day - we flew out there with AA (downside had to pay for your refreshments instead of if we had gone with BA ).
I think the only problems out there with he fair weather flying was that transport logistics were a bit troublesome, there was 2 vans for use by 14 students so it was a little troublesome, in the end we gave up and hired our own vehicle for the duration - this gave a lot more freedom and the ability to explore the area a bit more.........
Back to Oxford after the fair weather flying and at the time it was phase II of ground school (I think phase I and II are bolted together now, you do all the ground school first). This time having been living in the local area in phase I we had established that Woodstock was indeed a better night out than Kidlington (in our eyes) though the buses didn't run as frequently into Oxford, for those nights out. Woodstock has about 9-10 pubs if I recall and didn't seem to have as much attitude as Kidlington, rent was about the same for a 3 bed house.
Phase II much like phase I, more groundhog days but need to get those exams out the way.
Then it was time for the IR training, talk about a shock to the system, all that fun we had had in the states was replaced with hard work. Based on my experiences I would offer the following advice.
1. Instructor - try to ensure you are allocated an instructor who does not have a high instructor to student ratio as you could find yourself not flying as often as you like and as everyone says at this early stage continuity is the key. I became frustrated in my training as some people in my class seemed to be leaps and bounds ahead of me on sorties and this was down to the instructor ratio - this meant my training was taking longer and we had a house lease that was going to run out, and cost more money if I had to stay.
2. The Frasca sim that Purple head mentioned, this was fantastic and I hope they still have it, if they had a few more of these it would be great - you could book time on it and a friend would come in with you and you could basically fly the common routes in a sim exactly the same a the real aircraft, in my opinion it was far more useful than the FNPTII sims.
3. I would disagree with purple head regarding those IFR training machines, when I was there you were lucky if you could find one that didn't wander all over the place, eventually I found one that worked I but preferred to use the frasca.
4. Our Instructor would tell us to pitch up early doors even if the sim/ac wasn't booked till later, this was in case of the situation purple head described of slots moving, so if someone didn't show you could jump in and take the aircraft.
5. At the time I was training people would be trying to get hold of aircraft left right and centre and it became a strain. A priority list was devised so if a slot did become available they would allocate accordingly, it worked on the basis of if you have just started you are lower down the list and if you are getting close to taking your IR you are higher up the list, seemed to work though getting bumped off a slot in the early days for example if an a/c went tech was frustrating. (but overall it seemed fair).
The First Officer fundamentals course was good, great instructors and it was light hearted relief.
The 40 hours in the 737 sim was good too (20 hours PNF and 20 PF) it gave a good insight into things and all of a sudden the course seemed a bit more real. The instructors seemed to think the thing was being worked too hard and not getting enough maintenance and if it did go pear shaped would create a real bottle neck in terms of output. It was a bottle neck when the Algerian guys were completing too, all of a sudden they would be given priority on the 737 sim as they had to be completed by such n such a date, understandable I suppose as it was a repeat contract - got to keep that contract sweet.
Money, well most people borrowed the money from the Kidlington HSBC bank, though had to secure this against mum and dads houses etc etc at the time I think it was half a percent above the BOE base rate and it works out that you repay about £800 a month for 11 years, this started 6 months after you finish at Oxford.
Along the way I had a few issues that I made vocal and perhaps wish I hadn't, I don't believe they did me any favours, so as has already been said, pay up, put up and shut up and get spat out the machine at the end. The airline recruitment circle is overall very small and I think it's still very much an old boys thing and people do talk !
In the 18 months that all this took place BA started their SSP scheme so I hoped to be in the running for that. At the end of it all I came out with what I set out to get I was an integrated student with >85% average first time pass every exam and first series IR pass, however I and some others on APP courses were not invited for the BA selection. But I did get a job elsewhere.
The only problem was I had to pay for my type rating 19,000GBP up front, several others did do, those that went to Jet2 and Excel did too. The Bmibaby people have their type rating costs taken out of their salary in fact I think the only people who didn't have to pay for their training was the BA SSP guys. But you have to weigh it all up really - the BA SSP cadets are on a reduced salary for a number of years but get their training free. The others have to pay for type rating up front (which means no bond) and after a year you could perhaps apply to BA on the DEP scheme (500 hours) and if you get in you come in at I think it's about the equivalent of year 4 or year 5 of the SSP salary scheme. Or you can hold out till you have more hours and apply to other airlines, or indeed if you are happy stay where you are.
From completing my course to getting a job took me about 7 months, In that time every month I would book time in a jet sim and do some sids or stars just to keep my hand in, and that costs money too. I started my course with 1 pre APP integrated student, and 2 modulars ( I think). A lot of the modular guys we got to know have got jobs too with other carriers but again had to pay for type ratings - nowadays I think it is worth planning for this cost because as long as the airlines know people will pay for them why would they.
One other thing, just because you go APP doesn't mean you WILL get a job, I know people who were APP when I was there who are still without a job. Oh and once you start the course.... dont read this website - it's very very depressing to be half way through your ground school and read about someone who has come out the sausage factory and is unable to find work and the repayments are due. You will find those sort of posts all over here because people who have got their job generally have no reason to be posting on here.
Bye 4 now
FS
I started on the APP course when it was in its infancy, when I was 29 years old.
Having had a rewarding career thus far I decided it was time to take the step of trying to become a pilot (one of those childhood dream things).
I did very little research into which school I would go to, I had friends that flew for BA and Oxford was the school they had been put through under the BA cadet scheme so that was good enough for me. Oxford it was to be - I chose an integrated route purely down to the fact that unless I am on a timetable I am a bit useless and thought the compacted timetabled schedule would be what I needed personally to achieve my goals. I had dependants and partner in the UK so the thought of going overseas to train wasn't an ideal solution for me.
Aerospace struck a chord with me in an earlier post when he/she mentioned that students would get very defence if they read people bad mouthing the school they have just paid 60,000GBP to attend - because I know it would pi$$ me off when I was a student and I had a few spats on here for that very reason (you know toys out cot, mud slinging, name calling etc etc - all very non productive
)Bear in mind what follows is based on my time there from May 03 - December 04, so some things may have changed.
My goals whilst on he course were: to pass everything first time, get an exam average of at least 85% and get a first series in my IR, then I would be in for a shot at the BA selection if it ever materialised for low hour students(when I started course BA didn't have the SSP scheme and were not taking on low hours students)
Phase I
A class of 14, lived in a shared house in Kidlington with 2 others in my class. Ground school was hard work and had it not been for the Jolly boatman and the landlord there (Goldfinger) we would have become very numb in this part of the course - however life is all about balance - ground school all day, study for about 3-4 hours when we got home and then down the pub for last orders (or perhaps a little earlier). It's all very exciting at first but you soon start to feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog day so you have to try and keep yourself sane (in our case it was through socialising - aka networking
)We chose against the halls as to be honest at the time the halls were pretty small, the food left a bit to be desired and they cost a lot of money, you could go uncatered in the halls but there wasn't really any cooking facilities and we had heard from others in halls that it could be a bit frustrating trying to get piece and quiet what will the Algerian air force cadets charging about the place and bellowing at 1-2 in the morning (they weren't all like that, a lot of them also frequented some of Kidlington finest pubs) so for us it was a house in Kidlington, cost about £800 a month between the 3 of us, if I recall halls was at the time £160 -1 90 each a week.
With Ground school out of the way it was off to America for the CPL flying, we didn't go to phoenix, we were in Tyler Texas so I cant comment on phoenix but the flying was a hoot and it was so nice not to have to come home and study after flying each day - we flew out there with AA (downside had to pay for your refreshments instead of if we had gone with BA ).
I think the only problems out there with he fair weather flying was that transport logistics were a bit troublesome, there was 2 vans for use by 14 students so it was a little troublesome, in the end we gave up and hired our own vehicle for the duration - this gave a lot more freedom and the ability to explore the area a bit more.........
Back to Oxford after the fair weather flying and at the time it was phase II of ground school (I think phase I and II are bolted together now, you do all the ground school first). This time having been living in the local area in phase I we had established that Woodstock was indeed a better night out than Kidlington (in our eyes) though the buses didn't run as frequently into Oxford, for those nights out. Woodstock has about 9-10 pubs if I recall and didn't seem to have as much attitude as Kidlington, rent was about the same for a 3 bed house.
Phase II much like phase I, more groundhog days but need to get those exams out the way.
Then it was time for the IR training, talk about a shock to the system, all that fun we had had in the states was replaced with hard work. Based on my experiences I would offer the following advice.
1. Instructor - try to ensure you are allocated an instructor who does not have a high instructor to student ratio as you could find yourself not flying as often as you like and as everyone says at this early stage continuity is the key. I became frustrated in my training as some people in my class seemed to be leaps and bounds ahead of me on sorties and this was down to the instructor ratio - this meant my training was taking longer and we had a house lease that was going to run out, and cost more money if I had to stay.
2. The Frasca sim that Purple head mentioned, this was fantastic and I hope they still have it, if they had a few more of these it would be great - you could book time on it and a friend would come in with you and you could basically fly the common routes in a sim exactly the same a the real aircraft, in my opinion it was far more useful than the FNPTII sims.
3. I would disagree with purple head regarding those IFR training machines, when I was there you were lucky if you could find one that didn't wander all over the place, eventually I found one that worked I but preferred to use the frasca.
4. Our Instructor would tell us to pitch up early doors even if the sim/ac wasn't booked till later, this was in case of the situation purple head described of slots moving, so if someone didn't show you could jump in and take the aircraft.
5. At the time I was training people would be trying to get hold of aircraft left right and centre and it became a strain. A priority list was devised so if a slot did become available they would allocate accordingly, it worked on the basis of if you have just started you are lower down the list and if you are getting close to taking your IR you are higher up the list, seemed to work though getting bumped off a slot in the early days for example if an a/c went tech was frustrating. (but overall it seemed fair).
The First Officer fundamentals course was good, great instructors and it was light hearted relief.
The 40 hours in the 737 sim was good too (20 hours PNF and 20 PF) it gave a good insight into things and all of a sudden the course seemed a bit more real. The instructors seemed to think the thing was being worked too hard and not getting enough maintenance and if it did go pear shaped would create a real bottle neck in terms of output. It was a bottle neck when the Algerian guys were completing too, all of a sudden they would be given priority on the 737 sim as they had to be completed by such n such a date, understandable I suppose as it was a repeat contract - got to keep that contract sweet.
Money, well most people borrowed the money from the Kidlington HSBC bank, though had to secure this against mum and dads houses etc etc at the time I think it was half a percent above the BOE base rate and it works out that you repay about £800 a month for 11 years, this started 6 months after you finish at Oxford.
Along the way I had a few issues that I made vocal and perhaps wish I hadn't, I don't believe they did me any favours, so as has already been said, pay up, put up and shut up and get spat out the machine at the end. The airline recruitment circle is overall very small and I think it's still very much an old boys thing and people do talk !
In the 18 months that all this took place BA started their SSP scheme so I hoped to be in the running for that. At the end of it all I came out with what I set out to get I was an integrated student with >85% average first time pass every exam and first series IR pass, however I and some others on APP courses were not invited for the BA selection. But I did get a job elsewhere.
The only problem was I had to pay for my type rating 19,000GBP up front, several others did do, those that went to Jet2 and Excel did too. The Bmibaby people have their type rating costs taken out of their salary in fact I think the only people who didn't have to pay for their training was the BA SSP guys. But you have to weigh it all up really - the BA SSP cadets are on a reduced salary for a number of years but get their training free. The others have to pay for type rating up front (which means no bond) and after a year you could perhaps apply to BA on the DEP scheme (500 hours) and if you get in you come in at I think it's about the equivalent of year 4 or year 5 of the SSP salary scheme. Or you can hold out till you have more hours and apply to other airlines, or indeed if you are happy stay where you are.
From completing my course to getting a job took me about 7 months, In that time every month I would book time in a jet sim and do some sids or stars just to keep my hand in, and that costs money too. I started my course with 1 pre APP integrated student, and 2 modulars ( I think). A lot of the modular guys we got to know have got jobs too with other carriers but again had to pay for type ratings - nowadays I think it is worth planning for this cost because as long as the airlines know people will pay for them why would they.
One other thing, just because you go APP doesn't mean you WILL get a job, I know people who were APP when I was there who are still without a job. Oh and once you start the course.... dont read this website - it's very very depressing to be half way through your ground school and read about someone who has come out the sausage factory and is unable to find work and the repayments are due. You will find those sort of posts all over here because people who have got their job generally have no reason to be posting on here.
Bye 4 now
FS
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: EJYWCREJYWCR
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm hoping to start at OAT in the next few months, having gone through an open day and assesment day.
i appriciate they're trying to sell it to us, but at every stage of the process i felt that they were more concerned that i made the right choice, even as i passed the tests, mike said i should take some time to be sure this is really what i want.
I could be proved wrong in time, but it comes across as a professional and friendly place to be.
It is interesting to read different people views, but i wonder how much of this is the usual politics that any group of this size is bound to get.
-AlexC
sort of a physicist, wannabe pilot
i appriciate they're trying to sell it to us, but at every stage of the process i felt that they were more concerned that i made the right choice, even as i passed the tests, mike said i should take some time to be sure this is really what i want.
I could be proved wrong in time, but it comes across as a professional and friendly place to be.
It is interesting to read different people views, but i wonder how much of this is the usual politics that any group of this size is bound to get.
-AlexC
sort of a physicist, wannabe pilot
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London & Los Angeles
Age: 54
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Muddy Boots Revealed!
Dear All,
I'm Muddy Boots and my name is Trevor Wright. As I sit here writing this I am on my boat in Marina Del Rel is Los Angeles California not at OAT in Oxfordshire as has been previously suggested.
I've been away for the last couple of days and come back to find the original thread that I posted has become a witch hunt by conspiracy theorists thinking that I must surely work for OAT because I want to hear some positive feed back. So am I right in thinking that if you say something positive for OAT you work for them and if you say something negative you must work for the opposition?
I am 36 years old and will almost certainly choose Oxford if I'm brave enough to take the plunge and have a career change. I have visited other schools and like Oxford, it suits me and feel that I will be getting a structured course for my money.
Why is it that Oxford gets some much stick when there are other schools that are similar and charge about the same? Why do you never hear anyone ever slate FTE at Jerez? I visited it and hated it, it felt like an open prison in the middle of no where and their sims were old. Having said that there are a couple of decent guys I know who loved it and have started there now and good luck to them.
I started the thread in all innocence because I truly wanted to connect with other OAT students and grads to hear their thoughts and experiences, this fortunatley has happened.
As for the money, yes 60k is a lot of cash however in the grand scheme of things considering the career it opens up to you isn't that much. I know people who owe more for law school or an MBA, infact people spend that on cars, although not me...
Where have I been for the last couple of days? At Goodyear checking out Oxford's good weather base to try and give myself a push over the edge and commit.
Now please chill out! I'm not posting from Oxford!
Yours,
Muddy Boots
I'm Muddy Boots and my name is Trevor Wright. As I sit here writing this I am on my boat in Marina Del Rel is Los Angeles California not at OAT in Oxfordshire as has been previously suggested.
I've been away for the last couple of days and come back to find the original thread that I posted has become a witch hunt by conspiracy theorists thinking that I must surely work for OAT because I want to hear some positive feed back. So am I right in thinking that if you say something positive for OAT you work for them and if you say something negative you must work for the opposition?
I am 36 years old and will almost certainly choose Oxford if I'm brave enough to take the plunge and have a career change. I have visited other schools and like Oxford, it suits me and feel that I will be getting a structured course for my money.
Why is it that Oxford gets some much stick when there are other schools that are similar and charge about the same? Why do you never hear anyone ever slate FTE at Jerez? I visited it and hated it, it felt like an open prison in the middle of no where and their sims were old. Having said that there are a couple of decent guys I know who loved it and have started there now and good luck to them.
I started the thread in all innocence because I truly wanted to connect with other OAT students and grads to hear their thoughts and experiences, this fortunatley has happened.
As for the money, yes 60k is a lot of cash however in the grand scheme of things considering the career it opens up to you isn't that much. I know people who owe more for law school or an MBA, infact people spend that on cars, although not me...
Where have I been for the last couple of days? At Goodyear checking out Oxford's good weather base to try and give myself a push over the edge and commit.
Now please chill out! I'm not posting from Oxford!
Yours,
Muddy Boots
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Surrey
Age: 43
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Muddy boots, any chance you can PM me about what you think about goodyear? I'm a current OAT student so would be happy to have a chat with you about the course. I think it would be easier to talk on PM without alot of the people here shouting rubbish.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 42
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi there I wonder if anyone can help. I have always had a long term ambition of becoming an airline pilot. I am 23 years of age and am hoping to start my flight training in about two years time once I have saved up atleast £25,000-£30,000, as the training is very costly of around £60,000 at Oxford Aviation Training (OAT) I have just graduated from university with a Business Management Degree and am in the stage of looking for work in order to save as near as possible for the course in order to invest for this training course. Can anybody recommmend any good flight schools with a good reputation and possibly less costly then Oxford England is charging. I have taken an hour slot lesson on a light aircraft and absolutely loved it and this was definately a career for me and not a 9-5 office job. Although I did visit OAT and found it quite interesting the £60,000 is a heck of a sum to ask for. And by the way what is the selection process like and is it relatively easy to obtain a loan of £50,000 from HSBC because the thing I am concerned about is this parental guarantee thing, both my parents are suffering from disability and we live in council house property. All assistance will be very much appreciated, thanks.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Here and there
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question for OAT students
Hi there,
I was talking with my instructor today and he mentioned about how OAT students can get a special deal on a loan for their course at HSBC, involving conditions such as no repayments until a job is secured. Is this correct? Would any of you OAT students care to enlighten me as to the details of the loans for the APP First Officer course? I had discounted OAT as a possibility because of the massive amounts on money I would've had to have borrowed to afford the course, but if the loans have favourable conditions then I would definitely consider going to OAT!
Cheers
I was talking with my instructor today and he mentioned about how OAT students can get a special deal on a loan for their course at HSBC, involving conditions such as no repayments until a job is secured. Is this correct? Would any of you OAT students care to enlighten me as to the details of the loans for the APP First Officer course? I had discounted OAT as a possibility because of the massive amounts on money I would've had to have borrowed to afford the course, but if the loans have favourable conditions then I would definitely consider going to OAT!
Cheers
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
Your best bet would be to look at the forums on Oxford's web site:
www.oxfordaviation.com
The loan arrangement with HSBC is, I believe, to delay repayments until 6 months after the course finishes. This is not the same as delaying the repayments until you have a pilot job!
Hope that helps!
Your best bet would be to look at the forums on Oxford's web site:
www.oxfordaviation.com
The loan arrangement with HSBC is, I believe, to delay repayments until 6 months after the course finishes. This is not the same as delaying the repayments until you have a pilot job!
Hope that helps!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Here and there
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cheers jb ,
i'll have a look. That weblink is dead btw, should be www.oxfordaviation.net !
i'll have a look. That weblink is dead btw, should be www.oxfordaviation.net !
Join Date: May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi, im not a student at the mo, but will be in Aug.
The loan is £25,000 unsecured and £50,000 secured.The repayments start 6months after graduation, not when you get a job (sorry if this is wrong but its what ive been believing
)
And the interest is 2 or 2.5% above base rate.
Hope this helps,
The loan is £25,000 unsecured and £50,000 secured.The repayments start 6months after graduation, not when you get a job (sorry if this is wrong but its what ive been believing
)And the interest is 2 or 2.5% above base rate.
Hope this helps,
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Here and there
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bishop99
The loan is £25,000 unsecured and £50,000 secured.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UAE
Age: 44
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hi,
2.5% above base rate and repayment terms of 11yrs max for secured loan over 25k and 3.8% above base and repayment terms of 8yrs max for unsecured loans under 25k.
oh and max is 50k total so no 75k i'm afraid!
2.5% above base rate and repayment terms of 11yrs max for secured loan over 25k and 3.8% above base and repayment terms of 8yrs max for unsecured loans under 25k.
oh and max is 50k total so no 75k i'm afraid!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Singapore
Age: 42
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the topic of finance.......
Guys,
I am considering a go at the Oxford scheme but I am concerned at the level of finance involved. I have recently been invited back to CTC to resit stage 3 in October but want to know about every angle on Oxford. After trawling through this site and FTE ect is the finance guarenteed once through selection or is it exactly the same as getting any other loan. If so then there may be better options. I dont mind paying the 60,000. Even if I got in CTC I would have to pay it in the long run. But if there is no advantage regarding finance then I think I'll hold off for CTC. As you can see money is the concern. Also, if they only front a 50 grand loan were does the other 10 grand come from?? If I have to pay it outright there may be a longer than expected delay.
Please, in no way see this as a CTC vs Oxford thread. I dont care! All I want is a little insight into the financing as I did with CTC. A little more than the FAQ on the Oxford site if possible!! Possibly a case study of what someone who is on the course did. Please dont tell me the only way I can get the loan is to put up my house. Mrs Lovejoy will hit the sodd!n roof
Many Thanks
The Reverand
I am considering a go at the Oxford scheme but I am concerned at the level of finance involved. I have recently been invited back to CTC to resit stage 3 in October but want to know about every angle on Oxford. After trawling through this site and FTE ect is the finance guarenteed once through selection or is it exactly the same as getting any other loan. If so then there may be better options. I dont mind paying the 60,000. Even if I got in CTC I would have to pay it in the long run. But if there is no advantage regarding finance then I think I'll hold off for CTC. As you can see money is the concern. Also, if they only front a 50 grand loan were does the other 10 grand come from?? If I have to pay it outright there may be a longer than expected delay.
Please, in no way see this as a CTC vs Oxford thread. I dont care! All I want is a little insight into the financing as I did with CTC. A little more than the FAQ on the Oxford site if possible!! Possibly a case study of what someone who is on the course did. Please dont tell me the only way I can get the loan is to put up my house. Mrs Lovejoy will hit the sodd!n roof
Many Thanks
The Reverand
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Singapore
Age: 42
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This post was made in return to a comment Mooney12 made. He has since retracted his post which was probaly sensible. If you want to know what he wrote I'm sure you'll get the jist from my response. I'm not deleting this one though because it took so damn long to write
Mooney,
Thankyou for such an informative post. It's been a while since I got some good advice from this forum
I'm fully aware that OAT may be pompous at times and I guess if you've shelled out a 60 stretch on something you want everyone to know. This goes for BMW drivers and high stake gamblers and the like. Maybe it's human nature. I've even seen PPL students made to wear a uniform. God forbid they should be allowed!
This I dont have a problem with. Remember when you were younger and visited other schools? Didn't they make you wear your school logo to represent the school which is why you were on your best behavour? Now if the person wearing the uniform with the big bars and wings has an attitude that stinks then I dont care what your history, or number of bars, your a t!t. This also goes for the best instructor I have had to date who never wore shoes, only trainers. From the heel up she was business dress. From the heel down she was a tennis player. Why? Because it worked for her and she did a fine job.
Long story short. Dont really care what you are wearing, surely we can see beyond clothes and the real skills that exsist. My question would be do you think those pilots with the big bars and wings are any beter than the guy in his jeans? I think the real answer is a bit more in depth - the one I am looking for.
Please only comment on true skills, not dress or looks or sex or whatever. If the Oxford guys want to walk around nursling in leopard skin thongs and no shoes then so be it (this also goes for the girls too ) If they want to walk around in bars and uniform then the same rule applies. For both sides of the story just make sure you can justify your appearence!!
The Reverand (Friday night @ 20:01 - Too far gone to make sense, surely!)
Mooney,
Thankyou for such an informative post. It's been a while since I got some good advice from this forum
I'm fully aware that OAT may be pompous at times and I guess if you've shelled out a 60 stretch on something you want everyone to know. This goes for BMW drivers and high stake gamblers and the like. Maybe it's human nature. I've even seen PPL students made to wear a uniform. God forbid they should be allowed!
This I dont have a problem with. Remember when you were younger and visited other schools? Didn't they make you wear your school logo to represent the school which is why you were on your best behavour? Now if the person wearing the uniform with the big bars and wings has an attitude that stinks then I dont care what your history, or number of bars, your a t!t. This also goes for the best instructor I have had to date who never wore shoes, only trainers. From the heel up she was business dress. From the heel down she was a tennis player. Why? Because it worked for her and she did a fine job.
Long story short. Dont really care what you are wearing, surely we can see beyond clothes and the real skills that exsist. My question would be do you think those pilots with the big bars and wings are any beter than the guy in his jeans? I think the real answer is a bit more in depth - the one I am looking for.
Please only comment on true skills, not dress or looks or sex or whatever. If the Oxford guys want to walk around nursling in leopard skin thongs and no shoes then so be it (this also goes for the girls too
) If they want to walk around in bars and uniform then the same rule applies. For both sides of the story just make sure you can justify your appearence!!The Reverand (Friday night @ 20:01 - Too far gone to make sense, surely!)
Last edited by Reverand Lovejoy; 7th Apr 2006 at 19:10. Reason: Had the beer fingers at full throttle and made some typo's