I was emailed the link to this thread about a week ago and have been glancing back now and then out of interest to see what the latest is. I am an ex Oxford APP graduate and thought I would add my views on it all I think this reply will remain neutral and hopefully helpful.
I started on the APP course when it was in its infancy, when I was 29 years old.
Having had a rewarding career thus far I decided it was time to take the step of trying to become a pilot (one of those childhood dream things).
I did very little research into which school I would go to, I had friends that flew for BA and Oxford was the school they had been put through under the BA cadet scheme so that was good enough for me. Oxford it was to be - I chose an integrated route purely down to the fact that unless I am on a timetable I am a bit useless and thought the compacted timetabled schedule would be what I needed personally to achieve my goals. I had dependants and partner in the UK so the thought of going overseas to train wasn't an ideal solution for me.
Aerospace struck a chord with me in an earlier post when he/she mentioned that students would get very defence if they read people bad mouthing the school they have just paid 60,000GBP to attend - because I know it would pi$$ me off when I was a student and I had a few spats on here for that very reason (you know toys out cot, mud slinging, name calling etc etc - all very non productive
)
Bear in mind what follows is based on my time there from May 03 - December 04, so some things may have changed.
My goals whilst on he course were: to pass everything first time, get an exam average of at least 85% and get a first series in my IR, then I would be in for a shot at the BA selection if it ever materialised for low hour students(when I started course BA didn't have the SSP scheme and were not taking on low hours students)
Phase I
A class of 14, lived in a shared house in Kidlington with 2 others in my class. Ground school was hard work and had it not been for the Jolly boatman and the landlord there (Goldfinger) we would have become very numb in this part of the course - however life is all about balance - ground school all day, study for about 3-4 hours when we got home and then down the pub for last orders (or perhaps a little earlier). It's all very exciting at first but you soon start to feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog day so you have to try and keep yourself sane (in our case it was through socialising - aka networking
)
We chose against the halls as to be honest at the time the halls were pretty small, the food left a bit to be desired and they cost a lot of money, you could go uncatered in the halls but there wasn't really any cooking facilities and we had heard from others in halls that it could be a bit frustrating trying to get piece and quiet what will the Algerian air force cadets charging about the place and bellowing at 1-2 in the morning (they weren't all like that, a lot of them also frequented some of Kidlington finest pubs) so for us it was a house in Kidlington, cost about £800 a month between the 3 of us, if I recall halls was at the time £160 -1 90 each a week.
With Ground school out of the way it was off to America for the CPL flying, we didn't go to phoenix, we were in Tyler Texas so I cant comment on phoenix but the flying was a hoot and it was so nice not to have to come home and study after flying each day - we flew out there with AA (downside had to pay for your refreshments instead of if we had gone with BA ).
I think the only problems out there with he fair weather flying was that transport logistics were a bit troublesome, there was 2 vans for use by 14 students so it was a little troublesome, in the end we gave up and hired our own vehicle for the duration - this gave a lot more freedom and the ability to explore the area a bit more.........
Back to Oxford after the fair weather flying and at the time it was phase II of ground school (I think phase I and II are bolted together now, you do all the ground school first). This time having been living in the local area in phase I we had established that Woodstock was indeed a better night out than Kidlington (in our eyes) though the buses didn't run as frequently into Oxford, for those nights out. Woodstock has about 9-10 pubs if I recall and didn't seem to have as much attitude as Kidlington, rent was about the same for a 3 bed house.
Phase II much like phase I, more groundhog days but need to get those exams out the way.
Then it was time for the IR training, talk about a shock to the system, all that fun we had had in the states was replaced with hard work. Based on my experiences I would offer the following advice.
1. Instructor - try to ensure you are allocated an instructor who does not have a high instructor to student ratio as you could find yourself not flying as often as you like and as everyone says at this early stage continuity is the key. I became frustrated in my training as some people in my class seemed to be leaps and bounds ahead of me on sorties and this was down to the instructor ratio - this meant my training was taking longer and we had a house lease that was going to run out, and cost more money if I had to stay.
2. The Frasca sim that Purple head mentioned, this was fantastic and I hope they still have it, if they had a few more of these it would be great - you could book time on it and a friend would come in with you and you could basically fly the common routes in a sim exactly the same a the real aircraft, in my opinion it was far more useful than the FNPTII sims.
3. I would disagree with purple head regarding those IFR training machines, when I was there you were lucky if you could find one that didn't wander all over the place, eventually I found one that worked I but preferred to use the frasca.
4. Our Instructor would tell us to pitch up early doors even if the sim/ac wasn't booked till later, this was in case of the situation purple head described of slots moving, so if someone didn't show you could jump in and take the aircraft.
5. At the time I was training people would be trying to get hold of aircraft left right and centre and it became a strain. A priority list was devised so if a slot did become available they would allocate accordingly, it worked on the basis of if you have just started you are lower down the list and if you are getting close to taking your IR you are higher up the list, seemed to work though getting bumped off a slot in the early days for example if an a/c went tech was frustrating. (but overall it seemed fair).
The First Officer fundamentals course was good, great instructors and it was light hearted relief.
The 40 hours in the 737 sim was good too (20 hours PNF and 20 PF) it gave a good insight into things and all of a sudden the course seemed a bit more real. The instructors seemed to think the thing was being worked too hard and not getting enough maintenance and if it did go pear shaped would create a real bottle neck in terms of output. It was a bottle neck when the Algerian guys were completing too, all of a sudden they would be given priority on the 737 sim as they had to be completed by such n such a date, understandable I suppose as it was a repeat contract - got to keep that contract sweet.
Money, well most people borrowed the money from the Kidlington HSBC bank, though had to secure this against mum and dads houses etc etc at the time I think it was half a percent above the BOE base rate and it works out that you repay about £800 a month for 11 years, this started 6 months after you finish at Oxford.
Along the way I had a few issues that I made vocal and perhaps wish I hadn't, I don't believe they did me any favours, so as has already been said, pay up, put up and shut up and get spat out the machine at the end. The airline recruitment circle is overall very small and I think it's still very much an old boys thing and people do talk !
In the 18 months that all this took place BA started their SSP scheme so I hoped to be in the running for that. At the end of it all I came out with what I set out to get I was an integrated student with >85% average first time pass every exam and first series IR pass, however I and some others on APP courses were not invited for the BA selection. But I did get a job elsewhere.
The only problem was I had to pay for my type rating 19,000GBP up front, several others did do, those that went to Jet2 and Excel did too. The Bmibaby people have their type rating costs taken out of their salary in fact I think the only people who didn't have to pay for their training was the BA SSP guys. But you have to weigh it all up really - the BA SSP cadets are on a reduced salary for a number of years but get their training free. The others have to pay for type rating up front (which means no bond) and after a year you could perhaps apply to BA on the DEP scheme (500 hours) and if you get in you come in at I think it's about the equivalent of year 4 or year 5 of the SSP salary scheme. Or you can hold out till you have more hours and apply to other airlines, or indeed if you are happy stay where you are.
From completing my course to getting a job took me about 7 months, In that time every month I would book time in a jet sim and do some sids or stars just to keep my hand in, and that costs money too. I started my course with 1 pre APP integrated student, and 2 modulars ( I think). A lot of the modular guys we got to know have got jobs too with other carriers but again had to pay for type ratings - nowadays I think it is worth planning for this cost because as long as the airlines know people will pay for them why would they.
One other thing, just because you go APP doesn't mean you WILL get a job, I know people who were APP when I was there who are still without a job. Oh and once you start the course.... dont read this website - it's very very depressing to be half way through your ground school and read about someone who has come out the sausage factory and is unable to find work and the repayments are due. You will find those sort of posts all over here because people who have got their job generally have no reason to be posting on here.
Bye 4 now
FS
